Context for Wentz Critics

[deedub75]

3 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

KC overhauled their OL in the off season. Very specific and targeted effort by them. And like I said, part of that was dumping Fisher and upgrading. 

 

They had to overhaul their line. They lost 3 starting offensive linemen last season and it hurt them badly in the Super Bowl. Fisher had a torn achilles so it's no surprise they parted ways with him not wanting to wait on his recovery. He was good before the injury. 

[masterlock]

I really don't understand why Wentz critics' opinions are assumed to be less valid, and why people don't have a right to express their disapproval of him. If you support him, great--time will tell. For me, I'm just not sold on him. Too many left-handed passes, missed throws and questionable decision-making under pressure. I have no doubt in my mind that the Colts would be in the playoffs were Luck still our quarterback. No way Luck misses that wide open TY in the Raiders game a week ago. No way Luck makes a left-handed pass for a pick-6 in the TEN game. THAT is the difference between a championship-caliber quarterback and a 'servicable' quarterback.

[SurfinKal]

2 minutes ago, smittywerb said:

 

you know, colts fans seem to be the only group of people who don’t see that wentz has been horrible.  

lol...someone else just said this to me 5 minutes ago. Its so true. 

[smittywerb]

1 minute ago, jeepnkal said:

lol...someone else just said this to me 5 minutes ago. Its so true. 

because it’s true.  Everyone else I speak to and what I hear being talked about on the radio and tv is that wentz is not that good.  Even the colts YouTube bloggers have been saying Reich and Wentz have been trash this year.

 

ask a colts fan, and they’ll blame everything else except for wentz being horrible.

 

[Aces101]

People say great QBs make average receivers look great

 

Isnt it possible to admit that a poor performing QB like Wentz can make good receivers look bad?

[EastStreet]

1 minute ago, deedub75 said:

 

They had to overhaul their line. They lost 3 starting offensive linemen last season and it hurt them badly in the Super Bowl. Fisher had a torn achilles so it's no surprise they parted ways with him not wanting to wait on his recovery. He was good before the injury. 

How many of our OL have been poor, played injured, or missed significant time?

Last year our OL was good, and intact almost all year. 

Fisher was a complete dice roll. He played decent last year, but has been called an underperformer most of his career and has always struggled with bull and edge rushes in pass pro. 

[2006Coltsbestever]

Just now, smittywerb said:

 

you know, colts fans seem to be the only group of people who don’t see that wentz has been horrible.  

He's been bad but also has been good, like many QB's. Watch Tannehill flop as a #1 seed in the playoffs. If you don't have a Mahomes, Rodgers, Brady, or how Peyton was who isn't up and down? I don't trust any team that doesn't have those 4 QB's, 3 currently playing. We had that in Luck and he quit on us, so it is what it is. My SB picks are still alive, I had KC vs GB so yeah I was wrong about the Colts today but could still get the last laugh if GB wins the SB. I had them beating KC.

[bestQBever]

16 minutes ago, smittywerb said:

 

you know, colts fans seem to be the only group of people who don’t see that wentz has been horrible.  

It's only delusional Colts fans that think TD to INT ratio is the end all be all. Come up with all the excuses in the book. Wentz is just not an NFL starter. He deserves to be right where he was when they won the superbowl in 2017. On the sideline with a clipboard in his hand

[CoachLite]

It seems Reich, the quarterback whisperer, has been whispering doubt in Carson's ear. Maybe with different (better) coaches, Carson might perform a lot better. Maybe not. Physically, the guy has talent. Psychologically, he needs to learn not to panic and gain confidence. It's hard to tell at this point.

[Malakai432]

Maybe if you surround him with an elite WR core, he'll be able to command a game from a passing standpoint.  I doubt they're going to be able to change a bottom 10 passing offense to a top 10 with Wentz, that's not really their identiy this year anyways. 

 

That being said, the team still has to find a way to establish the pass.  They did it with Rivers, they went from a near a top 10 passing team with a mediocre WR core, to a bottom 10 this year.  It's not like opposing defenses are not going to adapt to the Colts next year anyways so they will have to find something to do.    

[smittywerb]

7 minutes ago, Malakai432 said:

Maybe if you surround him with an elite WR core, he'll be able to command a game from a passing standpoint.  I doubt they're going to be able to change a bottom 10 passing offense to a top 10 with Wentz, that's not really their identiy this year anyways. 

 

That being said, the team still has to find a way to establish the pass.  They did it with Rivers, they went from a near a top 10 passing team with a mediocre WR core, to a bottom 10 this year.  It's not like opposing defenses are not going to adapt to the Colts next year anyways so they will have to find something to do.    

 

if we have to surround the qb with elite talent then that’s usually a sign the qb isn’t that good.  Just saying.  

[smittywerb]

43 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

He's been bad but also has been good, like many QB's. Watch Tannehill flop as a #1 seed in the playoffs. If you don't have a Mahomes, Rodgers, Brady, or how Peyton was who isn't up and down? I don't trust any team that doesn't have those 4 QB's, 3 currently playing. We had that in Luck and he quit on us, so it is what it is. My SB picks are still alive, I had KC vs GB so yeah I was wrong about the Colts today but could still get the last laugh if GB wins the SB. I had them beating KC.

we’ll see, but I have more faith in vrabel coaching a good game and Ryan making the right pass or decision than wentz and Reich doing so.  And that’s a Titans team without Henry.

[Malakai432]

2 minutes ago, smittywerb said:

 

if we have to surround the qb with elite talent then that’s usually a sign the qb isn’t that good.  Just saying.  

 

I'm not going to argue with you there but I think we're stuck with him for another year anyways so it can't hurt to bring in talent lol.

[2006Coltsbestever]

8 minutes ago, smittywerb said:

we’ll see, but I have more faith in vrabel coaching a good game and Ryan making the right pass or decision than wentz and Reich doing so.  And that’s a Titans team without Henry.

Henry is going to play in the playoffs and I still have them losing in the playoffs. They could make the AFC Title Game but it will end the there. That is only because they are a #1 seed.

[smittywerb]

Just now, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Henry is going to play in the playoffs and I still them losing in the playoffs. They could make the AFC Title Game but it will end the there. That is only because they are a #1 seed.

 

Either way, it’s farther than we got this year and they didn’t have to give up a first round pick for a mediocre qb either.

[2006Coltsbestever]

Just now, smittywerb said:

 

Either way, it’s farther than we got this year and they didn’t have to give up a first round pick for a mediocre qb either.

For sure, making the AFC Title Game is a very good season. If I am Titans fan right now I am excited but they won't win the SB. Crazier things have happened but I can't see them beating KC twice in 1 season or Rodgers if that is the SB. Watch out for the Bills too.

[GoColts8818]

59 minutes ago, Aces101 said:

People say great QBs make average receivers look great

 

Isnt it possible to admit that a poor performing QB like Wentz can make good receivers look bad?

Is possible that outside of Pittman the Colts don’t have either good receivers or a great QB?  I think that’s the most likely answer.

[LJpalmbeacher2]

16 hours ago, EastStreet said:

Just a little context and comparison for all those whining about QB play.....

 

                              OL Rank   QBR      PR       TD%         INT%           ANY/A     Supporting Cast (rank)

Luck18                   #3             #5       98.7       6.1             2.3               6.95          NA

Brissett19               #3            #21     88.0       4.0            1.3               5.87           NA

Rivers20                  #7           #19      97.0      4.4             2.0              7.18            #11

Wentz21                 #16*         #8       95.8      5.3              1.2              6.72           #22 (driven up by catching RBs)

Mahomes21            #2*          #5       98.8       5.7              2.1              7.1            #13

 

Note - OL rank for 21 is through the first 3Qs (12-13 games)

 

So.....

• Wentz had no preseason
• Wentz had the worst OL of our previous 3 QBs, and way worse than KC this year
• Wentz was coming off surgery and injured early
• Wentz's supporting cast of pass catchers is just not great

 

Yet, Wentz is is top 10 in QBR, not far off from Mahomes (or Luck in 18) in QBR or PR, and has one of the best TD/INT ratios in the league...... 

ANY/A is not far off, which is a bit shocking to me given Reich's play calling. 

 

In short..

Is he perfect. No.

Is he bad. No.

Will he be better with a better and more stable OL. Very likely. 

Will he be better with improved pass catchers. Very likely.

Has he improved dramatically since last year, and improved with a mediocre OL and pass catchers...... Heck yes.... 

 

 

Folks need to chill... 

 

I like you and your posts

..your one of my favorites here on a short list.

But those favourable stats for Wentz just goes to show how meaningless stats are sometimes. 

Jmho

[EastStreet]

4 minutes ago, LJpalmbeacher2 said:

 

I like you and your posts

..your one of my favorites here on a short list.

But those favourable stats for Wentz just goes to show how meaningless stats are sometimes. 

Jmho

 

If you want to diminish OL and pass catchers on QB performance, OK, lol. 

[Colt.45]

Don't need much context to see it. The guy is not a franchise QB. If Chris Ballard has his head screwed on right, he'll be looking for a longterm QB. This guy is nothing close to it, coach killer i name him

[Never_Quit]

48 minutes ago, CoachLite said:

It seems Reich, the quarterback whisperer, has been whispering doubt in Carson's ear. Maybe with different (better) coaches, Carson might perform a lot better. Maybe not. Physically, the guy has talent. Psychologically, he needs to learn not to panic and gain confidence. It's hard to tell at this point.

 

He's had 6 years in the NFL. It is not hard to tell at this point. 

[LJpalmbeacher2]

Just now, EastStreet said:

 

If you want to diminish OL and pass catchers on QB performance, OK, lol. 

 

I agree our OL had it's trouble at times, especially early in season...but many teams have less than stellar OL's for every week. And of course we lacked weapons too outside of Pittman. But our OL, which is one of the top run blocking lines along with the best RB in the league made things a lot easier for Wentz for the most part.

But there are also other reasons why this team, organization are not winners... 

 

.

 

[shasta519]

He’s not a top 10 QB.
 

And you are clinging to QBR. That’s the same dumb stat that has Wentz’s game in BUF basically 10 pts higher than Burrow’s game against KC.

[GoColts8818]

32 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Henry is going to play in the playoffs and I still have them losing in the playoffs. They could make the AFC Title Game but it will end the there. That is only because they are a #1 seed.

People have underestimated the Titans all year and all they have done is win.  It wouldn’t shock me at all if they are in the Super Bowl.  
 

I’ll also say had Ballard hired Vrebal over the visor the Colts don’t lose today if even in this spot to start with.

[Colt.45]

2 minutes ago, shasta519 said:

He’s not a top 10 QB.
 

And you are clinging to QBR. That’s the same dumb stat that has Wentz’s game in BUF basically 10 pts higher than Burrow’s game against KC.

 

There's a good reason he was available for trade. The NFL has several dumb franchises but most of them know a good QB when they have one. The only time teams let guys go at the position is if they're not good enough or if the team has a better option....Philly had both.

 

Seen enough of Wentz this year, he's not a good QB. Ballard had better be deep in trying to upgrade. Can't be mucking about trying to build a great team when the most important position features a guy who will actively lose you games.

[Moosejawcolt]

All I will say is this, and it is somewhat concerning. Our running game got better as the year wore on, and Wentz seemed to regress. That's all.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[coming on strong]

1 hour ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

He's been bad but also has been good, like many QB's. Watch Tannehill flop as a #1 seed in the playoffs. If you don't have a Mahomes, Rodgers, Brady, or how Peyton was who isn't up and down? I don't trust any team that doesn't have those 4 QB's, 3 currently playing. We had that in Luck and he quit on us, so it is what it is. My SB picks are still alive, I had KC vs GB so yeah I was wrong about the Colts today but could still get the last laugh if GB wins the SB. I had them beating KC.

titans have a really good roster that pass rush is scary and they have weapons on offense .    put wentz on that team and bring tannehill here its the same result both guys stink .

[coming on strong]

2 minutes ago, Moosejawcolt said:

All I will say is this, and it is somewhat concerning. Our running game got better as the year wore on, and Wentz seemed to regress. That's all.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

wentz has regressed every single year since 2017 watching highlights its like night the day the difference .  how does some one regress that much .  this guy stinks and i cant defend him

[NFLfan]

4 hours ago, Narcosys said:

 

Why are you censoring posts that don't break rules?

 

Because the posts did break the rules. I don't have to share exactly what was written. That would defeat the reason why they were removed. 

 

[WentzezLuvChile]

1 hour ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Henry is going to play in the playoffs and I still have them losing in the playoffs. They could make the AFC Title Game but it will end the there. That is only because they are a #1 seed.

 

Dude, you just sound like a Salty fan of a team that totally botched their season.

Get over and give props where they are due.

 

Tanne and the Titans have produced despite some crazy odds  (losing Henty, breaking the injury record, etc).

Wouldn't be surprised if they take the prize this year.  Their "D" is balling.

 

Say what you want (I imagine you'll respond to this), but they are sitting at the #1 seed for a reason.

 

Wentz & Company are sitting at home!!!

[Moosejawcolt]

1 hour ago, smittywerb said:

we’ll see, but I have more faith in vrabel coaching a good game and Ryan making the right pass or decision than wentz and Reich doing so.  And that’s a Titans team without Henry.

Everyone is all over Vrable however people are forgetting that Schwartz has transformed that D this year.

[NFLfan]

@IndySouthsider You reacted to my comparison of Stafford to Cousins. I thought I would elaborate.

 

Cousins – Attempts: 4210; Completions: 2811 (66.9%)  Yards:  32,343 (Yards per Attempt: 7.7)  TD:  220  (5.2%)   INTs: 91 (2.2%)

 

Stafford – Attempts: 6793; Completions: 4281 (63%)     Yards   49,757 Yards per Attempt: 7.3  TD:  320 (4.7%)  INTs: 159 (2.3%)

 

Cousins Stats

Stafford's Stats

 

Stafford has higher volume stats because he has played longer. However, based on the stats, if Cousins had had the same attempts as Stafford, he would likely have higher volume stats because his percentages are better (higher completion percentage, higher TD percentage, and lower interception perception. He also has more yards per attempt. If you want to analyze the stats for yourself, I posted the links to their stats on Pro Football Reference.

[RollerColt]

I've been pretty supportive of Carson this year. But these past two weeks have made it hard to completely defend him... I think he's a good guy, and he's average at QB. Not horrendous, but... Not enough? 

 

Don't really know where the Colts can go from here except stick with him. We spent a lot of money and draft capital to get him. Not like there's any worthwhile free agent QBs this year either. 

 

Then again, the football Gods have spoken that we must always lose to Jacksonville at their place. Even Andrew couldn't beat them most of the time... Perhaps the NFL did know what they were doing when they scheduled us to play them at the end... My God, we've all been had!

[Narcosys]

33 minutes ago, NFLfan said:

 

Because the posts did break the rules. I don't have to share exactly what was written. That would defeat the reason why they were removed. 

 

Ah,  well you stated bickering and there's nothing in the rules for that. But stating the rule it violated would help prevent others from breaking the rule the way you interpret it.  And I do mean the way you interpret, only because I've seen others interpret the rules in far more extreme ways. 

 

 

[NFLfan]

22 minutes ago, Narcosys said:

Ah,  well you stated bickering and there's nothing in the rules for that. But stating the rule it violated would help prevent others from breaking the rule the way you interpret it.  And I do mean the way you interpret, only because I've seen others interpret the rules in far more extreme ways. 

 

I am not going to go back and forth with you here. This is a forum that has its own rules. Whether one likes the rules or how they are interpreted is not my concern. Let's move on. Thank you. 

[BlackTiger]

7 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

There’s a difference. 

not really.  He was a free agent and his agent said he was interested in coming here 

 

im sure you will have fun with the mental gymnastics on that and make it more complicated than it was 
 

if we went all in on an offer he was going to take it seriously  

[Narcosys]

24 minutes ago, NFLfan said:

 

I am not going to go back and forth with you here. This is a forum that has its own rules. Whether one likes the rules or how they are interpreted is not my concern. Let's move on. Thank you. 

Oh no,  I'm not trying to at all.  Sorry if it came across that way.  I was meaning of course you don't have to,  it's just confusing sometimes is all.  

 

We good man,  you can put your guns away lol.

[NFLfan]

1 hour ago, RollerColt said:

I've been pretty supportive of Carson this year. But these past two weeks have made it hard to completely defend him... I think he's a good guy, and he's average at QB. Not horrendous, but... Not enough? 

 

Don't really know where the Colts can go from here except stick with him. We spent a lot of money and draft capital to get him. Not like there's any worthwhile free agent QBs this year either. 

 

Then again, the football Gods have spoken that we must always lose to Jacksonville at their place. Even Andrew couldn't beat them most of the time... Perhaps the NFL did know what they were doing when they scheduled us to play them at the end... My God, we've all been had!

 

I remember that game with Blake Bortles in which he seemed to have 4 or 5 TDs. The Jags had a big lead and they continued to throw the ball down the field to score more. I believe it was the last day of the season in that year. 

 

Edit: It was in December 2015 but not the last game. 

 

[smittywerb]

1 hour ago, Moosejawcolt said:

Everyone is all over Vrable however people are forgetting that Schwartz has transformed that D this year.

why hasn’t ours?  Who makes that call?

[Moosejawcolt]

Just now, smittywerb said:

why hasn’t ours?  Who makes that call?

Reich needs to make a change in the scheme and Ballard needs to hit on just D picks which he hasnt