Colts OL Spend

[Nickster]

2 hours ago, Thebrashandthebold said:

Your quote on the Pacers is absurd in my opinion. They are the definition of mediocrity. They meet the goal of the ownership which is to put out a winning team that makes the playoffs but they have no desire to compete for a championship. They have an NBA wide reputation for being cheap both with players and coaches. They can't sign a good free agent and if they rarely get a star player he is working to escape to a franchise that is competing to win a championship. I have been watching the Pacers from the first game they every played at the State Fair Grounds. The situation has been this way since the Simons rescued the team and took over ownership. The Pacers have had only two or three stars in their entire NBA existence. Paul George, Danny Granger and Jermaine O'Neal are about it. They have had a lot of good players but it takes super stars to win NBA titles and the Pacers have not had one of those in their entire time in the NBA. Imagine your Colts going from 9-8 to 10-7 ever year and getting a wild card in the playoffs. That is what the Pacers are. I am not trolling but after so many years of being a fan I would like to see them compete for a championship before I croak. 

 

The Colts at least are always working to compete for a Super Bowl win. 

Ever heard of Reggie Miller?

[Thebrashandthebold]

34 minutes ago, Nickster said:

Ever heard of Reggie Miller?

Reggie was never a super star. He was a star in Indiana but have you read his stats? How many All Star games did he make? He got to the finals once when he was over the hill. Reggie was a volume shooter who could not defend at all. That was his only skill. I loved Reggie like everyone else but I knew he was no Super Star.

[Thebrashandthebold]

38 minutes ago, Dogg63 said:

 

Not sure how you could have been watching that long and missed mentioning George McGinnis, Mel Daniels, and Reggie Miller. 

I was clear to say in NBA days. Reggie was no super star.

[Les Poulains]

I'm a little uncomfortable with it. We all love having a really good offensive line, but realistically how valuable is having Braden Smith or Ryan Kelly over an average NFL right tackle and center? Personally, outside of the left tackle position because they're hard to find, I wouldn't love paying just good offensive linemen big money. And obviously I like Braden and Ryan but they are just good. 

 

Nelson is obviously exceptional and you have to pay him. That's kind of how I'd look at it with the O-Line. Pay the outlier guys who are special the big bucks and the rest I feel like you're good if you just find solid guys who aren't liabilities year in year out. 

[Nickster]

6 hours ago, Thebrashandthebold said:

I was clear to say in NBA days. Reggie was no super star.

Well I don’t know if there is a single definition of star or super star player but HOF is usually a strong indicator.

 

one thing to think about is that today’s games average 15 to 20 more ppg than when Reggie played.  That would translate into 4-5 ppg more.  Ref shot 5 3s per game.  Curry for instance shoots 10.  You can’t touch a guy today and I the 90s you could knock the dog * out of people.  Volume shooter?  Reg hit 41% from from 3 and 47:percent from the field as a SHOOTING #KG GUARD.  Advanced metrics would demand him to shoot way more than he did, and he was an incredible worker fighting trough brutal defenses.  It’s kinda sad you don’t appreciate this HOFer.

 

He was also a good not great defender on a great defensive team.  
 

and there was a dude named Jordan who was in the league,p.

 

ifmyou are old enough to have watched him play. I’m sorry you didn’t recognize his brilliance.  

[Superman]

15 hours ago, Les Poulains said:

I'm a little uncomfortable with it. We all love having a really good offensive line, but realistically how valuable is having Braden Smith or Ryan Kelly over an average NFL right tackle and center? Personally, outside of the left tackle position because they're hard to find, I wouldn't love paying just good offensive linemen big money. And obviously I like Braden and Ryan but they are just good. 

 

Nelson is obviously exceptional and you have to pay him. That's kind of how I'd look at it with the O-Line. Pay the outlier guys who are special the big bucks and the rest I feel like you're good if you just find solid guys who aren't liabilities year in year out. 

 

I wanted to see more out of Braden Smith in 2020, and I think he met my high expectations. He's better than 'just good,' IMO. Ryan Kelly is definitely a top five center. I think maybe you're being a little withholding on those two guys.

 

Glowinski is 'just good,' and definitely replaceable. 

 

Now if you want to talk about how easy/difficult it would be to replace guys like Kelly or Smith without experiencing a significant drop off in overall quality of line play, that's a fair conversation to have.

 

But before you go down that path you have to acknowledge that it's not easy to build a good OL. The Colts struggled for a decade, and it was only when they dedicated major resources over a four year period to fixing it -- big contract for AC, first rounders at LG and C, second rounder at RT, and a plug-in + second contract at RG -- that the OL became a strength for this team. I believe it's possible to replace one or two guys with serviceable players, and still get an acceptable level of play from the line overall, but that doesn't mean I'm eager to get rid of good players on the strongest unit on the roster.

[EastStreet]

On 5/17/2021 at 5:07 AM, Nickster said:

Pacers are an amazing organization IMO.  They’ve assembled competitive teams for most of the last 25 years with very few high draft picks and not much FA draw to the square city in the middle of a cornfield.

 

They stink because of injury.  I’m pretty bullish in them assuming a return to the court for all these injured guys.  Are you?

I think the Pacers FO are cheap. They assemble teams that are solid enough to make the playoffs, but not progress. Their cap management tracks. I realize it may be hard to attract some of the T1 guys to Indy, but doesn't seem like they are willing to go after them from a $$ perspective. Our only luck is hitting on a couple drafts in a row, and then the team being willing to pay them (using the exceptions clause) to keep them.

[Nickster]

1 hour ago, EastStreet said:

I think the Pacers FO are cheap. They assemble teams that are solid enough to make the playoffs, but not progress. Their cap management tracks. I realize it may be hard to attract some of the T1 guys to Indy, but doesn't seem like they are willing to go after them from a $$ perspective. Our only luck is hitting on a couple drafts in a row, and then the team being willing to pay them (using the exceptions clause) to keep them.

 

Dude your avatar is gross.

[Chucklez]

On 5/17/2021 at 10:19 PM, Thebrashandthebold said:

I was clear to say in NBA days. Reggie was no super star.

This is a trash take. Nuff said.

[EastStreet]

On 5/17/2021 at 5:18 PM, Thebrashandthebold said:

Reggie was never a super star. He was a star in Indiana but have you read his stats? How many All Star games did he make? He got to the finals once when he was over the hill. Reggie was a volume shooter who could not defend at all. That was his only skill. I loved Reggie like everyone else but I knew he was no Super Star.

He was a 5xAll Star. He's also a HoFer, and one of only 8 members of the 50/40/90 club.

I wouldn't put him on the level of some, but he did retire as the leader in 3pt shots made. 

He was definitely one of the better players in the early to mid 90s. 

The NBA was very different back then, and certainly much more physical. Even Michael said he hated playing against Reggie's D more than any other player. 

[Thebrashandthebold]

11 minutes ago, Chucklez said:

This is a trash take. Nuff said.

It all depends on what you mean by a Super Star. There are very few of them. Right now, in no order, James, AD, Durant, Curry, Harden, Leonard, Joker, Embiid, Kyrie and perhaps Chris Paul. It is my opinion only but Reggie wasn't close to being in a group like this. I loved him too but he played no defense and he could only shoot. Yes, I think he should have been in the HoF but there are lots of players in the HoF who are not Super Stars. Super Stars are All Stars just about every year. As you said, Reggie made it five times in his whole career. There is a difference between really good and Super Star. Reggie couldn't carry a team to an NBA title. I think my take is how most people see Reggie's career. But it is only an opinion of a long time Pacer Fan.

[AwesomeAustin]

24 minutes ago, Thebrashandthebold said:

It all depends on what you mean by a Super Star. There are very few of them. Right now, in no order, James, AD, Durant, Curry, Harden, Leonard, Joker, Embiid, Kyrie and perhaps Chris Paul. It is my opinion only but Reggie wasn't close to being in a group like this. I loved him too but he played no defense and he could only shoot. Yes, I think he should have been in the HoF but there are lots of players in the HoF who are not Super Stars. Super Stars are All Stars just about every year. As you said, Reggie made it five times in his whole career. There is a difference between really good and Super Star. Reggie couldn't carry a team to an NBA title. I think my take is how most people see Reggie's career. But it is only an opinion of a long time Pacer Fan.

A lot of players couldn’t carry their team to a championship during that time bc of Jordan.  Gary Payton, Shawn Kemp, John Stockton, Karl Malone, Charles Barkley, Kevin Johnson, Mark Price, Brad Daughtery, Dikembe Mutumbo,  Alonzo Mourning, Clyde Drexler and Patrick Ewing just off the top of my head.  Drexler may have got a ring later with the Rockets and Hakeem and I’m not sure but I think Mutumbo and Mourning won later in their careers as backups. 

[Thebrashandthebold]

2 minutes ago, AwesomeAustin said:

A lot of players couldn’t carry their team to a championship during that time bc of Jordan.  Gary Payton, Shawn Kemp, John Stockton, Karl Malone, Charles Barkley, Kevin Johnson, Mark Paxton, Brad Daughtery, Dikembe Mutumbo,  Alonzo Mourning, Clyde Drexler and Patrick Ewing just off the top of my head.  Drexler may have got a ring later with the Rockets and Hakeem and I’m not sure but I think Mutumbo and Mourning won later in their careers as backups. 

I agree with that but it doesn't change what Reggie was. Again, he was my favorite player of the time because I saw those wonderful games in NY. Mutumbo, Mourning, Daugherty, Paxton, Shawn Kemp and even Kevin Johnson were not Super Stars either. Again, it is just my opinion and I know from being on Pacer's Boards it is shared by most Pacer fans. The Pacers have not had a Super Star in their NBA games. They certainly did in their ABA days.

[Valpo2004]

On 5/18/2021 at 1:47 PM, Superman said:

 

I wanted to see more out of Braden Smith in 2020, and I think he met my high expectations. He's better than 'just good,' IMO. Ryan Kelly is definitely a top five center. I think maybe you're being a little withholding on those two guys.

 

Glowinski is 'just good,' and definitely replaceable. 

 

Now if you want to talk about how easy/difficult it would be to replace guys like Kelly or Smith without experiencing a significant drop off in overall quality of line play, that's a fair conversation to have.

 

But before you go down that path you have to acknowledge that it's not easy to build a good OL. The Colts struggled for a decade, and it was only when they dedicated major resources over a four year period to fixing it -- big contract for AC, first rounders at LG and C, second rounder at RT, and a plug-in + second contract at RG -- that the OL became a strength for this team. I believe it's possible to replace one or two guys with serviceable players, and still get an acceptable level of play from the line overall, but that doesn't mean I'm eager to get rid of good players on the strongest unit on the roster.

 

Glow will probably walk as Ballard will probably low ball him.  

 

Fisher if he plays well might get a 1 or 2 year extension after this year but I think that's about it.  

 

If you ask who is still going to be here in 2 or 3 years.  Nelson, Kelly and Smith probably will be.  But we will probably draft someone to play RG (assuming he's not already on the roster.  Part of me wonders how good Pinter would be) and probably draft a LT.  

[Nickster]

5 hours ago, Thebrashandthebold said:

It all depends on what you mean by a Super Star. There are very few of them. Right now, in no order, James, AD, Durant, Curry, Harden, Leonard, Joker, Embiid, Kyrie and perhaps Chris Paul. It is my opinion only but Reggie wasn't close to being in a group like this. I loved him too but he played no defense and he could only shoot. Yes, I think he should have been in the HoF but there are lots of players in the HoF who are not Super Stars. Super Stars are All Stars just about every year. As you said, Reggie made it five times in his whole career. There is a difference between really good and Super Star. Reggie couldn't carry a team to an NBA title. I think my take is how most people see Reggie's career. But it is only an opinion of a long time Pacer Fan.

You’re just wrong about the defense.  He was a plus defender.  Not great but good.

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

46 minutes ago, Valpo2004 said:

 

Glow will probably walk as Ballard will probably low ball him.  

 

Fisher if he plays well might get a 1 or 2 year extension after this year but I think that's about it.  

 

If you ask who is still going to be here in 2 or 3 years.  Nelson, Kelly and Smith probably will be.  But we will probably draft someone to play RG (assuming he's not already on the roster.  Part of me wonders how good Pinter would be) and probably draft a LT.  

This kid we drafted Fries played at a big time program and might end up being our future Rg I don’t have a clue how much Glow is even worth. I think Ballard would like to keep everyone together if he can. I think glow will be 29 by the end of the season. So still lots of good football left. The player I will miss most if we don’t bring him back is Hines. We may have to sacrifice him to bring Fisher back or keep someone else. I love Hines so much. He is so fun.  The colts haven’t had to cut or decide not to re-sign anyone yet that they have really wanted. I think that is going to change. If Doyle decides to retire that could free up some money but he sure didn’t sound like a guy that will retire after this season yesterday.  I believe Kelly’s co react was structured that his cap hit goes down after this year also so that will help.

[Thebrashandthebold]

15 minutes ago, Nickster said:

You’re just wrong about the defense.  He was a plus defender.  Not great but good.

He was barely adequate. Jordan hated him because he was a flopper not because he was a good defender. 

[jvan1973]

6 hours ago, Thebrashandthebold said:

I agree with that but it doesn't change what Reggie was. Again, he was my favorite player of the time because I saw those wonderful games in NY. Mutumbo, Mourning, Daugherty, Paxton, Shawn Kemp and even Kevin Johnson were not Super Stars either. Again, it is just my opinion and I know from being on Pacer's Boards it is shared by most Pacer fans. The Pacers have not had a Super Star in their NBA games. They certainly did in their ABA days.

Reggie was certainly a super star.  He would have been even better in this era 

[superrep1967]

On 5/16/2021 at 9:05 AM, csmopar said:

I don’t think Fisher returns until mid season. I also don’t think he’ll be back to form. So I vote no, he won’t be back here in 2021.

 

Now, barring injury or compete flameout, I do think we will kick the tires on him again for 2022. 

Your so pessimistic he’ll after the first few games. How dumb do you think Ballard and the team doctor are?

[csmopar]

4 minutes ago, superrep1967 said:

Your so pessimistic he’ll after the first few games. How dumb do you think Ballard and the team doctor are?

No I’m being realistic. Most quotes from around the league I’ve seen have him available mid October, that’s roughly week 6-8. Or.... MIDSEASON. 
 

as for the second part, I don’t think they’re dumb at all. But I’m also not going to sugar coat it. Fisher has an injury that historically takes 8-9 months to recover in the best case scenario. Could he recover sooner, absolutely. Could the team have information that perhaps the injury isn’t or wasn’t as bad as a normal Achilles injury, most definitely. But based on the information at hand currently, I would not be surprised to see him not return until mid October, around week 8. 
 

also, very rarely does a player return at 100 percent his first game or so. That said, an 70-80 percent Fisher is still better than arguably any other options we had this season. 
 

so yes, I’m perfectly fine with the Fisher gamble. But I’m not going to sugar coat and claim all is going to be well right out of the gate.  I think there will be stumbles and maybe even a setback. Which is why I think we will bring him back next year and by then, he should be much truer to pre injury form. 

[csmopar]

8 hours ago, Thebrashandthebold said:

I agree with that but it doesn't change what Reggie was. Again, he was my favorite player of the time because I saw those wonderful games in NY. Mutumbo, Mourning, Daugherty, Paxton, Shawn Kemp and even Kevin Johnson were not Super Stars either. Again, it is just my opinion and I know from being on Pacer's Boards it is shared by most Pacer fans. The Pacers have not had a Super Star in their NBA games. They certainly did in their ABA days.

You realize that Reggie during his prime was a top 3 to 5 player in the league right? Behind Jordan and Ewing. He also led the league in 3 pointers, percentages and free throw percentages. This in an era where a lot of games were blood baths. Matter of fact, put Stephen Curry or especially Lebron James in that era and they would be bench warmers simply cause they couldn’t handle the beatings. The NBA these days is essentially less contact than a game of baseball.  
 

also, during the day, Rick Smits was a top 10 center, Mark Jackson was rookie of the year, and a top 10 point guard. The Davis boys were also among the best defenders in the league.  We had plenty of star power.
 

the problem is, they played in the same conference as the Knicks and Bulls and that was the same type of problem Manning faced with playing against teams like the Steelers, Patriots in the AFC. Competition was razor tight. 
 

 

all that said, the Pacers haven’t had squat for a team since Reggie Miller retired. 

[Moosejawcolt]

On 5/19/2021 at 9:10 AM, Thebrashandthebold said:

It all depends on what you mean by a Super Star. There are very few of them. Right now, in no order, James, AD, Durant, Curry, Harden, Leonard, Joker, Embiid, Kyrie and perhaps Chris Paul. It is my opinion only but Reggie wasn't close to being in a group like this. I loved him too but he played no defense and he could only shoot. Yes, I think he should have been in the HoF but there are lots of players in the HoF who are not Super Stars. Super Stars are All Stars just about every year. As you said, Reggie made it five times in his whole career. There is a difference between really good and Super Star. Reggie couldn't carry a team to an NBA title. I think my take is how most people see Reggie's career. But it is only an opinion of a long time Pacer Fan.

Either could Micheal till Pippen and Rodman came along.

[2006Coltsbestever]

On 5/17/2021 at 5:18 PM, Thebrashandthebold said:

Reggie was never a super star. He was a star in Indiana but have you read his stats? How many All Star games did he make? He got to the finals once when he was over the hill. Reggie was a volume shooter who could not defend at all. That was his only skill. I loved Reggie like everyone else but I knew he was no Super Star.

Reggie was no doubt a Superstar. The Pacers made the Finals in 2000, Reggie was still in his prime when that happened, not over the hill. He made the All-Star team in 2000. He didn't even retire until after the 2005 season, 5 seasons later. Here is Reggie's resume:

 

-5X All-Star

 

-1X 50/40/90 club

 

-3rd all-time in 3pointers made

 

-1996 Gold Medalist on the Olympic team, which was nearly as great as the 1992 Dream Team

 

-his teams made 6 Conference Finals = 1994, 1995, 1998, 1999, 2000, 2004

 

-his teams made the Finals once = 2000

 

-he once scored 8 points in 8 seconds in a playoff win at New York (1995 Semis)! - Most incredible thing I have ever seen. Pacers went on to win that series. 

 

Only reason why Reggie doesn't have a ring is because, Michael's Bulls stopped him in 1998 and Shaq and Kobe's Lakers stopped him in 2000. The Pacers made the Bulls sweat Bullets in that 1998 ECFinal, they barely beat us. Saying Reggie wasn't a Superstar is a horrible take, sorry.

 

 

[2006Coltsbestever]

On 5/19/2021 at 11:10 AM, Thebrashandthebold said:

It all depends on what you mean by a Super Star. There are very few of them. Right now, in no order, James, AD, Durant, Curry, Harden, Leonard, Joker, Embiid, Kyrie and perhaps Chris Paul. It is my opinion only but Reggie wasn't close to being in a group like this. I loved him too but he played no defense and he could only shoot. Yes, I think he should have been in the HoF but there are lots of players in the HoF who are not Super Stars. Super Stars are All Stars just about every year. As you said, Reggie made it five times in his whole career. There is a difference between really good and Super Star. Reggie couldn't carry a team to an NBA title. I think my take is how most people see Reggie's career. But it is only an opinion of a long time Pacer Fan.

Karl Malone is a Top 15 player of all-time, he never carried his team to a Title. Was he a Superstar (yes he was easily). You opened up a can of worms that you can't stop  . Durant never won a Title either until he joined Steph, Klay, and Green in Oakland and Durant is arguably the 2nd best player over the last 10 years only behind LeBron.

 

Your take is not how most see Reggie's career, you ask anyone like Stephen A Smith, Charles Barkley, Kenny Smith, Shaq, they will all say Reggie was a Superstar.

[EastStreet]

10 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Karl Malone is a Top 15 player of all-time, he never carried his team to a Title. Was he a Superstar (yes he was easily). You opened up a can of worms that you can't stop  . Durant never won a Title either until he joined Steph, Klay, and Green in Oakland and Durant is arguably the 2nd best player over the last 10 years only behind LeBron.

 

Your take is not how most see Reggie's career, you ask anyone like Stephen A Smith, Charles Barkley, Kenny Smith, Shaq, they will all say Reggie was a Superstar.

Yup. He's easily a top 100 player all time, if not top 50. He's #49 all time in ESPN's ranking. 

 

I'd note that while he's #3 in 3 pointers now, he was #1 for more than a decade. And he did it in a league that wasn't near as 3pt crazy as it is today.

 

I think what I love about Reggie most is his attitude about staying with one team. He's said a lot when it comes to guys jumping from team to team, today's super teams, etc.. He wanted to live and die a Pacer

[2006Coltsbestever]

24 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

Yup. He's easily a top 100 player all time, if not top 50. He's #49 all time in ESPN's ranking. 

 

I'd note that while he's #3 in 3 pointers now, he was #1 for more than a decade. And he did it in a league that wasn't near as 3pt crazy as it is today.

 

I think what I love about Reggie most is his attitude about staying with one team. He's said a lot when it comes to guys jumping from team to team, today's super teams, etc.. He wanted to live and die a Pacer

I know we are off topic talking about basketball but this thread was dying down anyway and @Thebrashandtheboldgot me fired up  . I will one day list my top 50 players of all-time on the basketball thread, I actually did one several years back and I had Reggie at #50 . Of course when I did my list, I factored in stats, playoff stats, overall wins, leadership of a player, clutchness of a player, and just overall accomplishments. We have had thousands of NBA players since the NBA began so really any player that makes the top 75 would have to be considered a true Superstar. There are certain levels to a Superstar for example - Top 15 ever would be my Patheon, Top 16-35 Level 3 great Superstar, 36-55 Level 2 great Superstar, 56-75 Level 1 great Superstar. After 75 you get into the Very Good category IMO - meaning on the cusp of being a Superstar 76-100. This is all-time.

[Thebrashandthebold]

15 hours ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Karl Malone is a Top 15 player of all-time, he never carried his team to a Title. Was he a Superstar (yes he was easily). You opened up a can of worms that you can't stop  . Durant never won a Title either until he joined Steph, Klay, and Green in Oakland and Durant is arguably the 2nd best player over the last 10 years only behind LeBron.

 

Your take is not how most see Reggie's career, you ask anyone like Stephen A Smith, Charles Barkley, Kenny Smith, Shaq, they will all say Reggie was a Superstar.

Karl Malone is a top 15 player all time? How about Bill Russell, Wilt Chamberlain, Kareem, Shaq, Moses Malone, Olijawan, Jerry West, Oscar Robertson, Magic Johnson, Larry Bird, Curry, K.D., Kobe, Michael Jordan, George Mikan, Lebron James and I could certainly argue the case for two dozen more. I would have him in the top 50 but not much more than that. Yes, he has great stats. No, he never won anything. Yes, he is the second leading scorer of all time. Yes, he was a great rebounder. He also had John Stockton playing with him and other good players. George Mikan was one of the first NBA Super Stars and he transformed the center position. There are many others. The game has evolved. The Mailman would be very good today but he was not a three point shooter and depended on the pick and roll to score. He would not be allowed to dominate the paint that way now. I would take Elgin Baylor over Karl Malone but it was a different era too. 

[2006Coltsbestever]

5 hours ago, Thebrashandthebold said:

Karl Malone is a top 15 player all time? How about Bill Russell, Wilt Chamberlain, Kareem, Shaq, Moses Malone, Olijawan, Jerry West, Oscar Robertson, Magic Johnson, Larry Bird, Curry, K.D., Kobe, Michael Jordan, George Mikan, Lebron James and I could certainly argue the case for two dozen more. I would have him in the top 50 but not much more than that. Yes, he has great stats. No, he never won anything. Yes, he is the second leading scorer of all time. Yes, he was a great rebounder. He also had John Stockton playing with him and other good players. George Mikan was one of the first NBA Super Stars and he transformed the center position. There are many others. The game has evolved. The Mailman would be very good today but he was not a three point shooter and depended on the pick and roll to score. He would not be allowed to dominate the paint that way now. I would take Elgin Baylor over Karl Malone but it was a different era too. 

All the players you named are great, I can't debate that. Mikan did set the tone for big men. Baylor was way ahead of his time that is for sure. At worse Karl is top 20, I have him around 15th though.

[Four2itus]

I remember ole "knee to the defenders chest" Malone. 

[Chucklez]

To add a final point to all of the people defending against the GARBAGE take that Reggie Miller wasn't a superstar, you could argue that he was just loyal. A Pacer for life, he could have gone chasing rings and demanded a transfer and gone to other teams with lots of other superstar players, but he didnt. 

Could you imagine what the Bulls, or Spurs, or Pistons back in the 90s would have been like with Reggie Miller on there too? He'd easily have AT LEAST 3 rings if he went chasing for them. 

If aynthing, he deserves even more respect for remaining loyal. Put some damned respect on his name.

[TheNextGM]

Reggie Miller was a SUPERSTAR. 
Are people serious?

 

He was the guy you wanted to take the last shot. Had ice in his veins. 
Get out of here with this talk that he wasn’t a superstar. If not for the Chicago Bulls and the greatest player of all time, Miller would have won in Indiana. 
 

I idolized Miller growing up. There was no bigger superstar in all of sports for me.

[Four2itus]

5 hours ago, Chucklez said:

To add a final point to all of the people defending against the GARBAGE take that Reggie Miller wasn't a superstar, you could argue that he was just loyal. A Pacer for life, he could have gone chasing rings and demanded a transfer and gone to other teams with lots of other superstar players, but he didnt. 

Could you imagine what the Bulls, or Spurs, or Pistons back in the 90s would have been like with Reggie Miller on there too? He'd easily have AT LEAST 3 rings if he went chasing for them. 

If aynthing, he deserves even more respect for remaining loyal. Put some damned respect on his name.

There is a player who is loyal today, just like that. His name is Lillard. 

[Valpo2004]

On 5/17/2021 at 11:14 AM, DougDew said:

Yes.  I think his compensation diminishes each year too.  It was front loaded, IIRC, making it easier to keep him as we resign others, and keeping the cap hit for the entire unit reasonable as the cap increases.  

 

Down the road, I don' know if any team can pay 4 olinemen top 5 money.

 

This is correct.  Last year Kelly's cap hit was 15.35 Mil,  This year it's 14.65 Mil.  2022 is 7.5 Mil, 2023 is 10.125 mil, 2023 is 12.375 mil

 

Another thing to consider is that the cap will most likely increase AND some contracts will probably come down the pipe which will displace Kelly as the highest paid center.  

 

I think Ballard has the cap situation under control.  

[Old Colt]

On 5/16/2021 at 9:05 AM, csmopar said:

I don’t think Fisher returns until mid season. I also don’t think he’ll be back to form. So I vote no, he won’t be back here in 2021.

 

Now, barring injury or compete flameout, I do think we will kick the tires on him again for 2022. 

Agree, he well may never be back to what he was.  the tear takes an year on average to heal and the tear is at a critical stress area for his performance overall.  Hope to be wrong, but Leno would have been a better value for this season and maybe overall.