Clowney and/or Kpassagnon

[Scott Pennock]

Still waiting to hear if/when we sign either of them to shore up our defensive front......

 

Clowney would be a star in this defense in my humble opinion.  He already does a great job against the run, but turn a few of those pressures he gets into sacks and he would be the star we need off of the edge!

 

Tonah has so much untapped potential he could become at least as good as Autry turned out to be. He is more of an athlete though so he could be better as he goes into his prime.

 

I'd love it if we could somehow sign both of them honestly.

 

A rotation of Clowney, Turay and Rochell on one side and Lewis, Banogo and Kpassagnon from the other should be an adequate pass rush for our defense.

 

Sign one or both and I would rate this offseason a success.....

[danlhart87]

Kpassagnon 

Absolutely yes 

Clowney 

[stitches]

Clowney absolutely yes

(if Ballard is content with his lockerroom's ability to absorb him)

 

Kpassagnon  

 

 

[danlhart87]

1 minute ago, stitches said:

Clowney absolutely yes

(if Ballard is content with his lockerroom's ability to absorb him)

 

Kpassagnon  

 

 

[PrincetonTiger]

on the player whose name rhymes with a detergent 

[stitches]

5 minutes ago, danlhart87 said:

on a more serious note - I don't mind Kpassagnon, but only if we are doing it with the clear mind that he's a shot to take on a young traitsy player and if he comes at a very VERY reasonable price. I personally wouldn't rely on him to start for us. If we sign him, we are in the same position we were before signing him - still needing 2 starters... just now having one more shot to add to Lewis, Kemoko, Banogu and Rochell... 

 

In reality Kpassagnon is the Sam Tevi of EDGE defenders. 

[danlhart87]

I think Turay if healthy will be one of the starters this coming year 

[stitches]

4 minutes ago, danlhart87 said:

I think Turay if healthy will be one of the starters this coming year 

Really hope so. I'm rooting for him hard. That injury was so unfortunate. He was on his way to a breakout season. But still worth pointing out that even at his best... he was still playing maximum of about 30% of the snaps. He was situational pass-rusher. I hope he's able to transition to starter, but it's not a given, even if he's healthy. 

[krunk]

27 minutes ago, stitches said:

on a more serious note - I don't mind Kpassagnon, but only if we are doing it with the clear mind that he's a shot to take on a young traitsy player and if he comes at a very VERY reasonable price. I personally wouldn't rely on him to start for us. If we sign him, we are in the same position we were before signing him - still needing 2 starters... just now having one more shot to add to Lewis, Kemoko, Banogu and Rochell... 

 

In reality Kpassagnon is the Sam Tevi of EDGE defenders. 

I like him on the inside more than I like him on the outside.  He gets good push from the interior and holds his ground against the run. 

[stitches]

3 minutes ago, krunk said:

I like him on the inside more than I like him on the outside.  He gets good push from the interior and holds his ground against the run. 

A bit like Autry-role? The thing is... it seems like we signed Rochell with similar idea about his role... and Lewis is probably best in that role too - playing outside on early downs, kicking inside on pass-rush downs... 

 

The thing is... we are still missing the actual EDGE rushers... 

[krunk]

2 minutes ago, stitches said:

A bit like Autry-role? The thing is... it seems like we signed Rochell with similar idea about his role... 

I don't know how much if any Rochell played from the interior. 

[stitches]

8 minutes ago, krunk said:

I don't know how much if any Rochell played from the interior. 

I haven't watched him in the league but that's what I read when we signed him. 

[2006Coltsbestever]

I would rather bring Justin Houston back on a 1 yr 10 Million dollar deal. He is 32 but just turned 32 and is coming off a season where he had 8 sacks. He is still a good Pass Rusher. He has great chemistry with the players here on our defense as well. He is just better than Clowney or Kpass.

[BProland85]

1 hour ago, danlhart87 said:

I think Turay if healthy will be one of the starters this coming year 

That's a BIG if. Can't rely on him to be so I would prioritize DE in round 1 with Rousseau or Ojulari or possibly trade for a DE from another team. Unless Ballard's plan is to patch it yet again in 2021 with a player like Carlos Dunlap or Tanoh K. from Kansas City. 

[danlhart87]

4 minutes ago, BProland85 said:

That's a BIG if. Can't rely on him to be so I would prioritize DE in round 1 with Rousseau or Ojulari or possibly trade for a DE from another team. Unless Ballard's plan is to patch it yet again in 2021 with a player like Carlos Dunlap or Tanoh K. from Kansas City. 

I'm hoping Paye somehow falls and Ojulari fits more 34 team mold

 

Ojulari would be perfect in Tennessee or Baltimore 

[jmac_48]

I just don't see how Clowney would fit  with our DC's NO LOAFS mantra!

Seems a terrible mismatch.

[DaColts85]

I just don’t see Ballard even looking at Clowney honestly. Just does not fit for the his idea of a horseshoe guy. 

[Colts1324]

27 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

I would rather bring Justin Houston back on a 1 yr 10 Million dollar deal. He is 32 but just turned 32 and is coming off a season where he had 8 sacks. He is still a good Pass Rusher. He has great chemistry with the players here on our defense as well. He is just better than Clowney or Kpass.

I'm not sure he will even get $8 million a year. Hyder is younger & more productive/consistent & got less than $6 per. 
 

Dunlap is arguably a better fit for our defense, but eventually Father Time will have to catch up to him. 
 

Atkins wouldn't be bad on a 1-year deal

[2006Coltsbestever]

1 minute ago, Colts1324 said:

I'm not sure he will even get $8 million a year. Hyder is younger & more productive/consistent & got less than $6 per. 
 

Dunlap is arguably a better fit for our defense, but eventually Father Time will have to catch up to him. 
 

Atkins wouldn't be bad on a 1-year deal

I am not sure what Houston's going rate will be, he did make 12 Mill last year so I threw out 10 Mill since he is a year older. I thought TY could be signed for maybe 8 Mill and he went for 10 so not sure. 

[richard pallo]

20 minutes ago, DaColts85 said:

I just don’t see Ballard even looking at Clowney honestly. Just does not fit for the his idea of a horseshoe guy. 

He was in on Clowney last year but not for the 13m the Titans finally gave him.  We should be right in his wheelhouse this year money wise.  All the big time ER's already been paid and the lower cap also comes into play.  Perfect Storm for Ballard.  With Houston gone there is even more of a reason to bring him in.  He would be a star in this defense next to Buckner.  Four years younger than Houston and excellent against the run.  Teams would have to game plan for Clowney not Houston.  He would be a huge get if we could sign him.  Hoping it happens.  

[BProland85]

47 minutes ago, danlhart87 said:

I'm hoping Paye somehow falls and Ojulari fits more 34 team mold

 

Ojulari would be perfect in Tennessee or Baltimore 

I just don’t like Paye at all. He isn’t a natural pass rusher and uses his brute strength to win. He won’t be able to rely on that in the NFL. And Ojulari has those long arms and traits Ballard likes. Another guy to watch for is Joe Tryon perhaps. He still needs developed though. 

[jskinnz]

2 hours ago, Scott Pennock said:

Still waiting to hear if/when we sign either of them to shore up our defensive front......

 

Clowney would be a star in this defense in my humble opinion.  He already does a great job against the run, but turn a few of those pressures he gets into sacks and he would be the star we need off of the edge!

 

Tonah has so much untapped potential he could become at least as good as Autry turned out to be. He is more of an athlete though so he could be better as he goes into his prime.

 

I'd love it if we could somehow sign both of them honestly.

 

A rotation of Clowney, Turay and Rochell on one side and Lewis, Banogo and Kpassagnon from the other should be an adequate pass rush for our defense.

 

Sign one or both and I would rate this offseason a success.....

 

The notion that Clowney, who has never truly been a “star” would come here and be one is kind of funny. 

[Jackie Daytona]

2 hours ago, Scott Pennock said:

Still waiting to hear if/when we sign either of them to shore up our defensive front......

 

Clowney would be a star in this defense in my humble opinion.  He already does a great job against the run, but turn a few of those pressures he gets into sacks and he would be the star we need off of the edge!

 

Tonah has so much untapped potential he could become at least as good as Autry turned out to be. He is more of an athlete though so he could be better as he goes into his prime.

 

I'd love it if we could somehow sign both of them honestly.

 

A rotation of Clowney, Turay and Rochell on one side and Lewis, Banogo and Kpassagnon from the other should be an adequate pass rush for our defense.

 

Sign one or both and I would rate this offseason a success.....

Clowney hasn't been the pass rusher any team has needed in years. Jmo....

[JoeThornburg]

Clowney might be signing with Cleveland. Good player, just not sure about the price tag.

[richard pallo]

9 minutes ago, JoeThornburg said:

Clowney might be signing with Cleveland. Good player, just not sure about the price tag.

Maybe.  But since he left Cleveland without signing a contract I would say their chances probably dropped a bit. 

[danlhart87]

12 minutes ago, richard pallo said:

Maybe.  But since he left Cleveland without signing a contract I would say their chances probably dropped a bit. 

I'm sure he will just mull his options 

[NewColtsFan]

What I read about Clowney is average pass rusher...   graded around 69-70 or so.

 

But....

 

Dominant run defender who chases plays down from the backside.   On poster said he wouldn’t fit Flus’s hustle mantra, and I’m not sure that’s correct?

 

That said...    Clowney is said to have a bad knee which may render thus discussion meaningless.

 

I still don’t understand the objection some here have to bringing back Houston?   It seems on par with a kid who is tired of a toy and now wants a new one, just because.   I hope we bring back JH.   1/8-9. 

[richard pallo]

22 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

What I read about Clowney is average pass rusher...   graded around 69-70 or so.

 

But....

 

Dominant run defender who chases plays down from the backside.   On poster said he wouldn’t fit Flus’s hustle mantra, and I’m not sure that’s correct?

 

That said...    Clowney is said to have a bad knee which may render thus discussion meaningless.

 

I still don’t understand the objection some here have to bringing back Houston?   It seems on par with a kid who is tired of a toy and now wants a new one, just because.   I hope we bring back JH.   1/8-9. 

I think they need to check out Clowney and Dunlop.  I'm hoping Clowney is good to go because I think he is just what we need.  That said Houston Just has to be on their radar.  Too many positives not to be.  Would be sweet to get them both.  

[jchandler7]

Carlos Dunlap re-signed with the Hawks on a 2 yr 16.5 mil $ deal. We're down to Houston, Clowney or Kpass for free agent DE's. If we decide to focus on interior rush I seen Jarran Reed is being released. He's an absolute stud but I'm not sure Ballard will want to tie up that much cap space on the DL.

[richard pallo]

37 minutes ago, jchandler7 said:

Carlos Dunlap re-signed with the Hawks on a 2 yr 16.5 mil $ deal. We're down to Houston, Clowney or Kpass for free agent DE's. If we decide to focus on interior rush I seen Jarran Reed is being released. He's an absolute stud but I'm not sure Ballard will want to tie up that much cap space on the DL.

Things are moving quickly now in the ER marketplace.  Ballard has to do something soon.  He’s quickly running out of options.  

[JoeThornburg]

5 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

What I read about Clowney is average pass rusher...   graded around 69-70 or so.

 

But....

 

Dominant run defender who chases plays down from the backside.   On poster said he wouldn’t fit Flus’s hustle mantra, and I’m not sure that’s correct?

 

That said...    Clowney is said to have a bad knee which may render thus discussion meaningless.

 

I still don’t understand the objection some here have to bringing back Houston?   It seems on par with a kid who is tired of a toy and now wants a new one, just because.   I hope we bring back JH.   1/8-9. 

Ok man. I do like sharing opinions with you. You always make great points and I do enjoy the conversation.

 

For my thinking, Houston fits that "typical" description of a 32+ pass rusher. That value can only truly be evaluated at camp and in game, but analytics tell us we can't trust that combination of age and position. Granted analytics are not so refined as to truly measure intangible factors like leadership. But I think that's the issue. Not that I would be opposed to it, but personally I'd rather have that one kid out of Michigan to fill that role this year.

[NewColtsFan]

19 minutes ago, JoeThornburg said:

Ok man. I do like sharing opinions with you. You always make great points and I do enjoy the conversation.

 

For my thinking, Houston fits that "typical" description of a 32+ pass rusher. That value can only truly be evaluated at camp and in game, but analytics tell us we can't trust that combination of age and position. Granted analytics are not so refined as to truly measure intangible factors like leadership. But I think that's the issue. Not that I would be opposed to it, but personally I'd rather have that one kid out of Michigan to fill that role this year.

Appreciate the kind words...   very generous of you.    
 

My comments about Houston are focused only on Free Agency.   And, whatever he is,  I just don’t see better FA options out there.   Dunlap signed with Seattle tonight.  Clowney’s knee and contract demands seem difficult,  and the SD DE I’m not sure is a fit for what we do?   Everyone else is a lower level talent. 
 

As to the draft, all the projected 1st round DE’s scare me to one degree or another.   Even Paye.   So I’d feel better about the risk/reward return investing pick 54 on a DE.   We need to hit on out first round OT.    But we can more afford a miss at DE, than we can at LT.    That would be a big organizational setback, IMO.  
 

Sorry this got wordy.   Thanks again for the kind thoughts. 

[JoeThornburg]

4 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

Appreciate the kind words...   very generous of you.    
 

My comments about Houston are focused only on Free Agency.   And, whatever he is,  I just don’t see better FA options out there.   Dunlap signed with Seattle tonight.  Clowney’s knee and contract demands seem difficult,  and the SD DE I’m not sure is a fit for what we do?   Everyone else is a lower level talent. 
 

As to the draft, all the projected 1st round DE’s scare me to one degree or another.   Even Paye.   So I’d feel better about the risk/reward return investing pick 54 on a DE.   We need to hit on out first round OT.    But we can more afford a miss at DE, than we can at LT.    That would be a big organizational setback, IMO.  
 

Sorry this got wordy.   Thanks again for the kind thoughts. 

Don't worry about wordy because I tend to write freaking novels. I do think Paye was misused at Michigan but he's probably not falling to #21. Can't imagine Minny not taking him. Perfect fit though in my view.

[DownHillRunner]

What would Clowney's role be on this defense? If you're going to ask him to be a defensive end/pass rusher he is not either of those. He didn't record ONE sack last season. I see Clowney as an interior run stopper who can get occasional pressure on the Quarterback and disrupt the run.

[NewColtsFan]

31 minutes ago, JoeThornburg said:

Don't worry about wordy because I tend to write freaking novels. I do think Paye was misused at Michigan but he's probably not falling to #21. Can't imagine Minny not taking him. Perfect fit though in my view.

The write ups on Paye are all...   strange.   Super athlete, loves football, works hard, and yet...    the sum of his parts don’t add up to a very good DE yet.   And it’s not like Michigan doesn’t have good coaching. 
 

He’s built a little funny and he runs a little funny with short choppy strides.   Today, I read that he might be closer to 6’2” 1/2 and 270+.    And that his best position might ultimately be.....    DT.    ?!?   
 

Either way, the Big Three all seem to need work and none feels like we’d get much from them as rookies.   I don’t mean to be Donnie Downer, but these questions eat at me.   That’s, in part, why I favor going DE in the 2nd round.   
 

If your pass rush isn’t what you need, you can at least scheme for more.  Stunts from the DL, blitzing from the LBers and DBs.

 

But you can only scheme so much help for your LT before you’re impacting your offense more than you want.     I’m just thinking out loud, and I’m sure when I wake up in the morning, I’ll have push back, and that's ok.

 

Thanks for the talk.   I’ll see you Friday...   

[DaColts85]

12 hours ago, richard pallo said:

He was in on Clowney last year but not for the 13m the Titans finally gave him.  We should be right in his wheelhouse this year money wise.  All the big time ER's already been paid and the lower cap also comes into play.  Perfect Storm for Ballard.  With Houston gone there is even more of a reason to bring him in.  He would be a star in this defense next to Buckner.  Four years younger than Houston and excellent against the run.  Teams would have to game plan for Clowney not Houston.  He would be a huge get if we could sign him.  Hoping it happens.  

There are claims Ballard reached out about him last year but that’s all. This year only 1 team has asked about the oft injured Clowney. And age aside compare Houston’s last two years against Clowney and I’ll take Houston still. 
 

the biggest thing that kills me is the talk of a guy next to Buckner. Or next to Nelson. We do not blitz much so in a rush 4 situation (85%) of the time he will still get blocked. After the latest knee injury there is nothing special about him. 

[TheMose]

16 hours ago, PrincetonTiger said:

on the player whose name rhymes with a detergent 

Hard Kpass*

[TimetobringDfence!]

Clowney on the cheap would be a great deal. His run defense is so unappreciated. And after losing Walker, Autry, Houston. And Muhammad we need that.

[Scott Pennock]

15 hours ago, jskinnz said:

 

The notion that Clowney, who has never truly been a “star” would come here and be one is kind of funny. 

When he hit free agency in 2018 after 4.5, 6, 9.5 and 9 sack seasons as a good edge setter most folks on this board wanted him and thought he was a perfect fit for our attacking style defense. He was a star on the rise and he still could be given his skillset and the right defense - like ours. 

 

That may be funny to you and that is your opinion and that's fine, we are all entitled to our own opinions.

[Scott Pennock]

15 hours ago, Shafty138 said:

Clowney hasn't been the pass rusher any team has needed in years. Jmo....

Misfit toys don't play well....and it's only been two seasons removed from back-to-back 9 sack seasons.