Did Indy Covet Love

[EastStreet]

We'll likely never know the whole story. Our two biggest needs this year were DT and QB. We solved both via FA, so who knows what the feelings were pre Rivers and Buckner acquisitions.

 

Personally, I'm happy the way it worked out. I do think Indy is in win-now mode right now, so the draft strategy was altered based on the two acquisitions. I do think Indy would have strongly considered Love in the 2nd had he fallen though.

 

Regardless, doesn't matter now. All on the Rivers train. I do find it silly some are writing Love off at this stage because of a few weeks of 2nd team training camp reps. 

[rock8591]

Of course they did.

 

They thought about tanking last season so they can draft him. As the saying goes, "suck for love."

 

Just don't google those words at work.

[Coffeedrinker]

13 hours ago, Superman said:

 

Yeah, we don't have enough context on that conversation.

 

I do agree that when Ballard says they weren't going to trade up, that he's telling the truth. But it seems other teams were concerned about a team trading up for Love, maybe the Colts. That might be why the Packers came up for him. So I don't know if the smoke that Rapoport reported was fake or not. It might have been.

 

 

Whether they thought he was worth a first or not, they obviously weren't interested in trading up for him. Once they traded out of #13, it should have been obvious that they weren't going to draft a QB early. If they wanted a QB on Day 1, they wouldn't have traded that pick so early.

 

If Love had lasted to the second round, don't know what the Colts do. Maybe they had a 25-30ish grade on him, and if he falls to them in the second, maybe they feel compelled to make the pick. But they were obviously happy to take Pittman and Taylor, so it doesn't seem like they were holding their breath waiting for Love to drop.

 

But I don't think it matters that he's struggling in camp. Not at this point. People had their minds made up about Daniel Jones this time last year. And countless other examples. It's too early to make any kind of determination about Love right now.

I agree, negative reviews after 9 days of practice mean about as much as positive reviews after 9 days of practice.  Not much.

[Coffeedrinker]

8 hours ago, rock8591 said:

Of course they did.

 

They thought about tanking last season so they can draft him. As the saying goes, "suck for love."

 

Just don't google those words at work.

That is just wrong... hilarious but wrong.

[aaron11]

i was hoping we would draft love, a bad camp doesnt bother me.

 

mahomes had a really bad camp too for the record

[Jason_]

well it's pretty obvious they didn't covet him, otherwise I'd think they WOULD have tried to trade up for him.  Now, whether they would have drafted him at the top of round 2 if he had been available..I'd think only Ballard, Irsay and Reich could answer that question and they never will.

[Smoke317]

As I’ve said before, I think Ballard wanted him & was going to trade up with the Seahawks to get him.  They would have used one of our remaining 2’s (one used in moving up for Love) on either Pittman or Taylor.  Taking Love in the 1st would have given us an extra year of control with his contract I believe?  Correct me if I’m wrong.  
 

I think the Packers jumped up and forced Ballard to plan B. Which went from either getting Pittman or Taylor we got both.  I think things worked out for the best.  This way Ballard doesn’t have to attach himself at the hip to a QB who maybe wasn’t as sure fire as he and others may have thought.

 

I wouldn’t be shocked if those draft videos were showing Ballard debating with his staff on Love.  Him being in favor of Love and others not so much.  And most likely, once Love was gone Ballard (being a professional) moved on immediately. He has no room to debate would’ve, should’ve, & could’ve. You ride with the guys you did draft. Can’t make them think they were your second or third choices...

[Moosejawcolt]

On 8/26/2020 at 5:07 PM, AwesomeAustin said:

I think Tua will have the best chance to succeed from this draft class.  Everyone else has huge question marks.  Was a bad year to need a QB.  
 

Eason was drafted in the perfect spot for a low risk high reward investment.  Chances are extremely high he won’t become a franchise QB but maybe he can replace Brissett and be a high level backup.  That would be a great use of a 4th rd pick. 

Tua will never last in the NFL. Show me a player who is made out of glass in college and goes on to be succesful in a more physical league; the NFL?

[Moosejawcolt]

On 8/26/2020 at 5:07 PM, AwesomeAustin said:

I think Tua will have the best chance to succeed from this draft class.  Everyone else has huge question marks.  Was a bad year to need a QB.  
 

Eason was drafted in the perfect spot for a low risk high reward investment.  Chances are extremely high he won’t become a franchise QB but maybe he can replace Brissett and be a high level backup.  That would be a great use of a 4th rd pick. 

Tua will never last in the NFL. Show me a player who is made out of glass in college and goes on to be succesful in a more physical league; the NFL?

[Jackie Daytona]

On 8/26/2020 at 9:58 PM, dw49 said:

 

It was Rapoport that reported the Colts were trying o move up and draft Love. It no doubt was proved to be false.

I think Chloe is Rapoport's burner account here in the forums....

[Moosejawcolt]

I am so confused. People are convinced  Ballard  is in a win now mode. However, those same people r convinced Ballard wanted Love, which would have cost us picks which would have set the team back. Now those same people say we trust in  Ballard the genius. I will say this. If Ballard truly wanted Love, he would have drafted him. He had the capital, two 2nds,  and the 13th pick to move up or  stay at #13. Then he traded out and I actually exhaled  Were the Colts interested.....sure. However, they may have  had a 3rd round grade on him. I did not like Love coming out of college.  I said so and got hammered for it. People were saying the Colts would pick him at 13, which i thought was ludicrous. When they traded out of the 13th pick. They basically said they were not in love, pardon the pun, with any qb in the draft. That should surprise no one as many said this was a weak qb draft.

[Yoshinator]

7 hours ago, Smoke317 said:

As I’ve said before, I think Ballard wanted him & was going to trade up with the Seahawks to get him.  They would have used one of our remaining 2’s (one used in moving up for Love) on either Pittman or Taylor.  Taking Love in the 1st would have given us an extra year of control with his contract I believe?  Correct me if I’m wrong.  
 

I think the Packers jumped up and forced Ballard to plan B. Which went from either getting Pittman or Taylor we got both.  I think things worked out for the best.  This way Ballard doesn’t have to attach himself at the hip to a QB who maybe wasn’t as sure fire as he and others may have thought.

 

I wouldn’t be shocked if those draft videos were showing Ballard debating with his staff on Love.  Him being in favor of Love and others not so much.  And most likely, once Love was gone Ballard (being a professional) moved on immediately. He has no room to debate would’ve, should’ve, & could’ve. You ride with the guys you did draft. Can’t make them think they were your second or third choices...

You would be wrong. Before day 1 of the draft even started, Ballard and everyone were talking about who they liked better between Pittman and Taylor, and which one they wanted to take first once the 34th pick rolled around on day 2. Ballard also said he was eating popcorn on the second half of day 1 and there was no attempt to trade up. He strongly denied the rumors that he tried to trade up for Love, or was even interested in Love. 

 

We were after Pittman and Taylor, and that's exactly who we took. Watch the "with the next pick" series and the day 2 draft interview, and it will tell you everything.

[AwesomeAustin]

11 hours ago, Moosejawcolt said:

Tua will never last in the NFL. Show me a player who is made out of glass in college and goes on to be succesful in a more physical league; the NFL?

Frank Gore

[NewColtsFan]

3 minutes ago, AwesomeAustin said:

Frank Gore

Frank Gore?    Made of glass in college?

 

On what planet?

[w87r]

8 minutes ago, AwesomeAustin said:

Frank Gore

No better example than Frank.

3 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

Frank Gore?    Made of glass in college?

 

On what planet?

He had surgery on both knees in college.

 

Edit, not both knees, but 2 ACL tears

 

https://jetswire.usatoday.com/2020/05/09/frank-core-acl-tears-model-for-nfl-longevity-new-york-jets/

[Moosejawcolt]

4 minutes ago, AwesomeAustin said:

Frank Gore

I beleive he tore his ACL in college. I may be wrong but I dont think he had a history of injuries coming into the league.  Plus, Gore is a man; Tua looks small and fragile to me

[stitches]

We will never know. The reality is if Ballard really loved him, he would have kept the #13 pick and picked him. If he loved his potential, we would have probably tried to move up in the late first and according to reports he didn't so... I'm good with it. 

 

It's all done now anyways. No point in lingering on it. He's not a Colt and he's someone else's problem/hope for the future.

[Dogg63]

10 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

Frank Gore?    Made of glass in college?

 

On what planet?

https://sportsinjurypredictor.com/player/frank-gore/1442

 

In college, Gore tore his ACL (same one) twice in 2 years and tore his knee meniscus.

[AwesomeAustin]

20 minutes ago, Moosejawcolt said:

I beleive he tore his ACL in college. I may be wrong but I dont think he had a history of injuries coming into the league.  Plus, Gore is a man; Tua looks small and fragile to me

I believe he tore his ACL twice. You told me to name someone so I did.  I don’t deny the injury concern with Tua but I think he still has the best chance at having a successful career out of this draft class. I’ve stated multiple times that I could see all 4 first round QBs having disappointing careers.  They all have huge question marks be it injuries, ability or being drafted by a dysfunctional organization. 

[AwesomeAustin]

37 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

Frank Gore?    Made of glass in college?

 

On what planet?

Multiple major knee injuries should qualify in this discussion.  I will admit that Frank Gore is absolutely an exception.  By no means am I saying bc Gore had an outstanding career so Tua will.  I just think Tua has the best combination of ability, coaching staff and location. of any of the first round QBs.   I give it a 50-50 shot he becomes a long term viable starter which is on pace with most first round picks but higher than QBs. The kid is crazy talented but questions about his durability are legit concerns. 

[shasta519]

On 8/27/2020 at 12:08 PM, Superman said:

 

I don't disagree with this. But it's pretty obvious the Colts were interested in Love. Was there enough interest to take him at some point in the first two rounds? I don't think we'll ever have a satisfactory answer to that. But they showed plenty of interest, for months, which makes it hard to believe that they didn't like him.

 

Add to that their need for a young QB, then assumptions get made.

Rapoport has made "reports" with less information than that.

 

Its not like Ballard is going to say anything definitive...but he made the “popcorn” comment...which implied they didn’t care about moving up to get him.

 

I know the vast majority here won’t ever judge that call...but I think time will.
 

Time will judge if it was the right call.

[NewColtsFan]

49 minutes ago, AwesomeAustin said:

Multiple major knee injuries should qualify in this discussion.  I will admit that Frank Gore is absolutely an exception.  By no means am I saying bc Gore had an outstanding career so Tua will.  I just think Tua has the best combination of ability, coaching staff and location. of any of the first round QBs.   I give it a 50-50 shot he becomes a long term viable starter which is on pace with most first round picks but higher than QBs. The kid is crazy talented but questions about his durability are legit concerns. 

I don’t know how many knee injuries Gote had, I only know about the one in his last year in college.   And even now, I remember I TE all it being described as one of the worst knee injuries people had ever seen.   That he got trapped in a pile and bent backwards over himself in the opposite of how a knee naturally bends.  It was considered something if a medical miracle that he worked his * off to get drafted in the 1st round.  
 

Either way,  I think the issue is how we describe “made of glass”.    Simply getting hurt is not counted by football people as “made of glass”.    Don’t mean to state the obvious, but football is a violent game.   So, if you’re hurt because someone hits your knee wrong, that’s not “made of glass”.   But if you plant and cut and no one touches you, THAT’S when football people begin to wonder.   So there’s a difference.    Was the injury due to contact?   Or did the body break on it’s own.

 

Frank Gore is tough.  Legendarily tough.  Honestly.  

[2006Coltsbestever]

28 minutes ago, crazycolt1 said:

I cant agree with that comment. 

We had Doug Williams break the mindset of a black QB couldn't play back in 1988.

We had John Riggins, Mike Alstott, Larry Csonka, Rocky Bleier, Jim Taylor and a few other who disproved your comment about white RBs as well. 

I am part of the 'older' crowd you are referring to and bucking the trend was broke long ago. 

Warren Moon definitely did in the 90's, so did Randall Cunningham.

[dw49]

11 hours ago, Jared Cisneros said:

You would be wrong. Before day 1 of the draft even started, Ballard and everyone were talking about who they liked better between Pittman and Taylor, and which one they wanted to take first once the 34th pick rolled around on day 2. Ballard also said he was eating popcorn on the second half of day 1 and there was no attempt to trade up. He strongly denied the rumors that he tried to trade up for Love, or was even interested in Love. 

 

We were after Pittman and Taylor, and that's exactly who we took. Watch the "with the next pick" series and the day 2 draft interview, and it will tell you everything.

 

It's very obvious that Ballard tells the truth and nothing but the truth. To this day we have never even witnessed him throwing a smoke screen out there. That said and the accuracy of what you have above , makes it hard for me to believe that some here think we were actually trying to move up to draft him. That's not to say it's slightly possible they may have taken him at pick 2.2. They "could" have been talking about Taylor and Pitman with the assumption Love would be gone ?  Doubt it but it's possible.

[AwesomeAustin]

42 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

I don’t know how many knee injuries Gote had, I only know about the one in his last year in college.   And even now, I remember I TE all it being described as one of the worst knee injuries people had ever seen.   That he got trapped in a pile and bent backwards over himself in the opposite of how a knee naturally bends.  It was considered something if a medical miracle that he worked his * off to get drafted in the 1st round.  
 

Either way,  I think the issue is how we describe “made of glass”.    Simply getting hurt is not counted by football people as “made of glass”.    Don’t mean to state the obvious, but football is a violent game.   So, if you’re hurt because someone hits your knee wrong, that’s not “made of glass”.   But if you plant and cut and no one touches you, THAT’S when football people begin to wonder.   So there’s a difference.    Was the injury due to contact?   Or did the body break on it’s own.

 

Frank Gore is tough.  Legendarily tough.  Honestly.  

I didn’t ask the moose to describe what he considered made of glass but I’m not sure If there is a definition for that term that fits.  Just watched about 10min of the game and Tua was hurt when two defenders landed on him.  Before then he had missed one game bc of an ankle sprain which I assume was from contact as well.  He didn’t miss for another ankle and knee sprain. I don’t think he is “made of glass” but each player recovers differently from injury, probably just needs to do a better job protecting himself. I very well could see the injury history being overblown by the media bc it was during Covid and there wasn’t much to talk about.  Damage is done and unless he goes on an Ironman streak and plays a bunch of consecutive games, every time he gets nicked up and misses a game or two people will say he is injury prone. 
 

 I did enjoy the plays I watched bc that kid is super talented.  He moves in the pocket very well and dropped a few passes right over his receivers shoulder.
 

BTW, who were your favorite QBs from this class?  Mine were Tua, Eason and Hurts in that order. (I do think Burrow and Herbert are better than Eason and Hurts but didn’t have a chance to draft them). 

[Superman]

1 hour ago, dw49 said:

 

It's very obvious that Ballard tells the truth and nothing but the truth. To this day we have never even witnessed him throwing a smoke screen out there. That said and the accuracy of what you have above , makes it hard for me to believe that some here think we were actually trying to move up to draft him. That's not to say it's slightly possible they may have taken him at pick 2.2. They "could" have been talking about Taylor and Pitman with the assumption Love would be gone ?  Doubt it but it's possible.

 

I think people talk themselves into believing that Ballard is playing games because they want the Colts to pursue a player or a transaction, but so far he's given us no reason not to take him at his word. He telegraphs his moves every offseason.  

[w87r]

2 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

I don’t know how many knee injuries Gote had, I only know about the one in his last year in college.   And even now, I remember I TE all it being described as one of the worst knee injuries people had ever seen.   That he got trapped in a pile and bent backwards over himself in the opposite of how a knee naturally bends.  It was considered something if a medical miracle that he worked his * off to get drafted in the 1st round.  
 

Either way,  I think the issue is how we describe “made of glass”.    Simply getting hurt is not counted by football people as “made of glass”.    Don’t mean to state the obvious, but football is a violent game.   So, if you’re hurt because someone hits your knee wrong, that’s not “made of glass”.   But if you plant and cut and no one touches you, THAT’S when football people begin to wonder.   So there’s a difference.    Was the injury due to contact?   Or did the body break on it’s own.

 

Frank Gore is tough.  Legendarily tough.  Honestly.  

Fair enough, I was taking it more to mean injury prone, which he was coming into the league. Been a staple of toughness ever since. Truly aspirational story, that Frank Gore is.

[NewColtsFan]

On 8/29/2020 at 1:21 PM, w87r said:

Fair enough, I was taking it more to mean injury prone, which he was coming into the league. Been a staple of toughness ever since. Truly aspirational story, that Frank Gore is.

Another story about a legendary player is the Hall of Fame player Anthony Munoz.  He suffered three knee injuries in three different college seasons at USC.   Two full blown surgery type injuries.  And then one his senior year when he got the knee scoped.   He came back for the Rose Bowl and Charles White ran for 247 yards, mostly behind Munoz.  Then Bengals GM, Paul Brown and his son Mike went to scout the game.  But they didn’t want to alert anyone by sitting in the press box with all the other scouts.  So they bought tickets and sat in the stands.   Mike says he and his father laughed their heads off as Munoz was a man against boys even coming off a scoped knee.

 

Here’s the payoff...   after missing a ton of games in college due to three knee injuries they researched and found out all of the injuries were due to contact.  None because he planted funny.  Munoz went on to enjoy a 13 year career and missed a grand total of one game due to injury.   One.    His history might suggest he was injury prone.  And eyebrows were raised when he was drafted third overall. But Munoz was an iron man throughout his career.

 

Moral of the story?   Not all injuries are created equal.   Good NFL people dig deep to find out the circumstances.   There’s lots of calculated risk.   I don’t know the Tua story  beyond knowing he was hurt a lot.  He’s supposed to be a great kid.  Really great.  So I’m rooting for him.  

[Four2itus]

On 8/28/2020 at 11:19 PM, Jared Cisneros said:

Yep, there used to be the thought that a black person couldn't be a QB, and then guys like Russell Wilson came along and broke that trend.

Before that....Doug Williams, Randall Cunningham, Warren Moon.......