Jacoby Brissett Impressions (Perma Merge)

[throwing BBZ]

7 hours ago, southwest1 said:

I do like seeing INDY get some positive buzz for once since so many NFL sports shows tend to ignore us or only mention our team in passing like a minor afterthought. It's the main reason why I routinely watch Colin Cowherd on FS1 because he praises our GM, HC, sound structure/professionalism as an organization. INDY knows how to ignore the noise--Go to work--& grind it out yr after yr. 

 

Okay sure, there's the chance  that Jacoby improves next yr too. Then, we let him pursue other NFL opportunities & we get burned because we didn't lock him down with a multi-year starting QB deal. It's a possibility. However, you can't live in fear though. If the face of your franchise isn't in your building, keep kicking over every rock until you know. Yep, we finally landed our guy for the next decade or so. 

 

I know; I know. Don't let the pursuit of perfection paralyze you. Every QB has flaws & good is better than being miserable with nonstop loses. Touche. Gotta win in December & right now, if you hooked me up to a lie detector, I don't believe Jacoby can do that. Just being honest. Yeah. I know. Peyton Manning had his post season struggles too before he overcome his post season narrative & became a future HOFer as well. 

 

 Chuckle. Manning had his struggles when he was a multiple MVP winner.
 7 one and dones in the Playoffs. Were talking Playoffs. 
   He PROVED time and again HE couldn't get it done passing us to the SB.
  The same in Denver. A Defense and running game won his SBowls. Haha!
 
  And WE haven't a Clue how good our offense (Brissett) can be IF we ever get the Weapons Reich was so pumped about having, and they have a season and a half to mature and work together. So why mindlessly Blather about a LIE detector?

[Myles]

1 hour ago, SteelCityColt said:

 

I'd the chances are a viable long term franchise QB in FA is into the realms of unicorns. I'd not be adverse to Mariotta or Bridgewater as a backup, but depends on the price massively. 

 

Kelly is the wildcard, but I don't want to open that can of worms again.

 

I think as you say, the only way we have a new QB on the roster next year is if a QB we love falls to us for the right value. Even then it will be a sit and learn brief.

I'm guessing Bridgewater gets a starter contract if he doesn't stay in NO.  He played very well in his 5 games this season.   I think I would take him over Brissett.    Maybe.   They are close.    

[Nadine]

Moving forward, this will be the thread for weekly commenting on Jacoby Brissett.  Individual topics created about Jacoby Brissett will be merged to this one

[NannyMcafee]

11 hours ago, southwest1 said:

Look, I will admit that Jacoby have succeeded my expectations. Luck retired & I thought our season was over & we were toast. However, Brissett gelled in the locker room & gradually got better week to week. He's also been mentored by Bill Parcels which carries a ton of gravity & weight because Jacoby is mentally strong & resilient. 

 

Still...Where does that leave our franchise longterm? Translation: Can we win a Lombardi under his leadership? If you hesitate even for a moment in answering that question, you have your answer. Jacoby is like a woman you date for awhile, but not necessarily walk down the aisle with. He's okay for now, but the guy? Not ready to take the deep dive plunge on him as the face of our franchise even with Reich & Ballard guiding him. Sorry. Love the kid personally, but I want rings & that means keep searching in the draft. 

 

I believe we can win a SB under JB and I didnt hesitate. Oh the value of opinions. 

[hoosierhawk]

6 hours ago, SteelCityColt said:

 

I'd the chances are a viable long term franchise QB in FA is into the realms of unicorns. I'd not be adverse to Mariotta or Bridgewater as a backup, but depends on the price massively. 

 

Kelly is the wildcard, but I don't want to open that can of worms again.

 

I think as you say, the only way we have a new QB on the roster next year is if a QB we love falls to us for the right value. Even then it will be a sit and learn brief.

I would like your opinion of Rosen as I respect you opinion. I have never been a huge fan of his due to his attitude but he has been dealt two crap hands so far. Always afraid NE will pick him up and make a superstar uout of him.

[southwest1]

11 hours ago, throwing BBZ said:

 

 Chuckle. Manning had his struggles when he was a multiple MVP winner.
 7 one and dones in the Playoffs. Were talking Playoffs. 
   He PROVED time and again HE couldn't get it done passing us to the SB.
  The same in Denver. A Defense and running game won his SBowls. Haha!
 
  And WE haven't a Clue how good our offense (Brissett) can be IF we ever get the Weapons Reich was so pumped about having, and they have a season and a half to mature and work together. So why mindlessly Blather about a LIE detector?

I was merely giving you my impressions about Jacoby right now. Funny, I didn't think I was "mindlessly blather[ing] about a lie detector" BZZ. You make it sound like my entire post was centered around that 1 sentence. It wasn't. I just meant that I'm not sold on Jacoby as a made man in INDY yet. That's all. 

 

I've been wrong before. That doesn't bother me in the slightest. I have nothing against Jacoby personally. If he proves me wrong, great more power to him. I'm not calling into question his character or work ethic either just to be clear. Look, I could see us going up against the Texans for the AFC South title & perhaps even facing Houston for a Wildcard spot in the playoffs. I just wanna see if Jacoby can handle NE going up against Stephon Gilmore & not turn the ball over. 

 

Regarding #18, yes Von Miller carried him in his final SB victory. I was fine with it since Peyton in INDY particularly during the 2009 season was such a precision thrower late in games that yr. I have no issues with DC Wade Phillips picking up the slack on D in Denver & providing Manning an assist in 2015. It doesn't diminish the Sheriff's HOF legacy one bit in my eyes. 

[southwest1]

10 hours ago, NannyMcafee said:

 

I believe we can win a SB under JB and I didnt hesitate. Oh the value of opinions. 

That's the beauty of the forum & threads like this one NMFE. Everyone gets a chance to chime in & drop their 2 cents. Nobody really knows the future of Mr. Brissett beyond this yr & next season. He does seem to be well respected in the locker room & among the coaching staff. Also, to his credit, Jacoby does get rid of the ball quickly & once he decides where to throw the ball--It is gone & he doesn't hesitate. All admirable traits on the field. Even I must admit, he's a pretty good scrambler when he makes the decision to run & he knows when to get down avoiding unnecessary hits. 

 

Other posters on here have stated Jacoby needs better offensive weapons. I don't know. Doyle, Ebron, Pascal, Rogers, & Funchess once he's healthy again seems more than adequate to me for judging how well Brissett moves the ball thru the air at this juncture in the season. 

 

The question with any starting QB is what's their learning curve in terms of processing information & when a play breaks down or the wheels fall off say for a quarter or 2, how do they respond to adversity? I need to see more. Eluding Von Miller on Sunday & connecting with TY downfield showed me a flash of greatness..I just wanna see if Jacoby can expand on that as the season progresses. He's a smart field general who can utilize both his arm & his athleticism. There's no denying that. I just got spoiled with Peyton who was so superb at anticipating throws. I wanna see if Jacoby can start to do that. Maybe I'm expecting too much too fast. I'll own that. 

 

All our opinions carry equal weight NMFE. No poster has cornered the market on a sure thing at QB. Heck, even HOFer John Elway can't seem to nail that position in Colorado & he knows the intricacies of that spot inside & out on a professional level. 

 

Nice chatting with you. No harm done. 

[NannyMcafee]

15 minutes ago, southwest1 said:

That's the beauty of the forum & threads like this one NMFE. Everyone gets a chance to chime in & drop their 2 cents. Nobody really knows the future of Mr. Brissett beyond this yr & next season. He does seem to be well respected in the locker room & among the coaching staff. Also, to his credit, Jacoby does get rid of the ball quickly & once he decides where to throw the ball--It is gone & he doesn't hesitate. All admirable traits on the field. Even I must admit, he's a pretty good scrambler when he makes the decision to run & he knows when to get down avoiding unnecessary hits. 

 

Other posters on here have stated Jacoby needs better offensive weapons. I don't know. Doyle, Ebron, Pascal, Rogers, & Funchess once he's healthy again seems more than adequate to me for judging how well Brissett moves the ball thru the air at this juncture in the season. 

 

The question with any starting QB is what's their learning curve in terms of processing information & when a play breaks down or the wheels fall off say for a quarter or 2, how do they respond to adversity? I need to see more. Eluding Von Miller on Sunday & connecting with TY downfield showed me a flash of greatness..I just wanna see if Jacoby can expand on that as the season progresses. He's a smart field general who can utilize both his arm & his athleticism. There's no denying that. I just got spoiled with Peyton who was so superb at anticipating throws. I wanna see if Jacoby can start to do that. Maybe I'm expecting too much too fast. I'll own that. 

 

All our opinions carry equal weight NMFE. No poster has cornered the market on a sure thing at QB. Heck, even HOFer John Elway can't seem to nail that position in Colorado & he knows the intricacies of that spot inside & out on a professional level. 

 

Nice chatting with you. No harm done. 

 

I get it. I'm not angry or anything. I think mainly for me it's a large amount of forum members doubting him on every level it would seem. Even when he is exceeding expectations. I think we as fans have become so spoiled by extreme elite level play that anything less than that is considered mediocre when it simply isnt. I'm sorry if I came off rude brother. 

[southwest1]

30 minutes ago, NannyMcafee said:

 

I get it. I'm not angry or anything. I think mainly for me it's a large amount of forum members doubting him on every level it would seem. Even when he is exceeding expectations. I think we as fans have become so spoiled by extreme elite level play that anything less than that is considered mediocre when it simply isnt. I'm sorry if I came off rude brother. 

Excellent point MNFE. Yeah, sometimes standards of excellence get placed so high by our predecessors that it becomes a daunting task for those who follow in their footsteps. Those shadows can loom quite large indeed.  It's difficult for me sometimes to take a step back & say out loud: Now, wait a minute here. Each QB is their own man & I have to give the new guy under center a chance to get his feet wet & grow into the gravity of that position & all the perks & worts that come with it before I hold Jacoby to a plateau that isn't fair to him this early in his career as a starter. Point Taken. 

 

Part of the problem is that he had success in NE as a QB so, I expected him to be dropped into INDY & hit the ground running. You know, Brissett gets the expectation bias from both sides: Filling the shoes of Manning & Luck in INDY & being mentored by Bill Belichick in Boston briefly. The kid gets squeezed on both ends from 2 franchises that are accustom to playing winning football late in the yr. Your job Jacoby is not to mess it up. Talk about pressure. LOL! 

 

We're cool man. You didn't do anything wrong. No worries bro. It's all good. 

[southwest1]

13 hours ago, throwing BBZ said:

7 one and dones in the Playoffs. Were talking Playoffs. 
   He PROVED time and again HE couldn't get it done passing us to the SB.

Look, I'm gonna be honest with you BBZ. Manning's early struggles post season did bother me for awhile. But, then I realized something. Playing in 4 SBs & winning 2 of them is a remarkable feat in & of itself.

 

It takes incredible discipline to even get to the pinnacle of football more than once. Plus, Peyton has had multiple head coaches while Brady has had the luxury of Bill Belichick his whole NFL career. You can't dismiss or downplay that fact. Also, mistakes get magnified to epic proportions in SuperBowls. Not all turnovers or change of possessions are equal either. That onside kick by Sean Payton completely altered the trajectory of that SB vs the Saints. It messed with INDY's mojo & to this day, I can't even watch the rest of that game after that play. 

 

That Seattle Seahawks SB vs the Broncos was a buzzsaw game I never saw coming either. I knew the Legion Of Boom was legit, but not that suffocating & sometimes, it just isn't your night. 

 

I keep thinking of Jim Kelly & the Buffalo Bills losing 4 consecutive SBs in a row in the 90's. Does it tarnish Marv Levy's legacy. Of course not. Getting to the big dance multiple times means something enormous. Yeah, I know rings matter to me, but in hindsight, they aren't everything either. 

 

Like most things, once you have distance & time to let history marinate properly, elite NFL resumes like Peyton's & Jim's always float to the top & receive the praise they truly deserve. 

[SteelCityColt]

11 hours ago, hoosierhawk said:

I would like your opinion of Rosen as I respect you opinion. I have never been a huge fan of his due to his attitude but he has been dealt two crap hands so far. Always afraid NE will pick him up and make a superstar uout of him.

 

Must be the only person who does 

 

I've not watched enough Rosen to have an informed opinion, but as you say he's had two very weird situations. You'd have to wonder how much that has damaged him, we've seen QBs before on bad teams get ruined. 

 

Talent wise, he doesn't strike me as having so much natural talent he's a can't fail, but he seemed to have enough to become a starter, maybe a mid-level guy. All depends on his attitude and willingness to be coached as well as landing in a situation where he can develop under a good coach. 

[ColtsBlueFL]

On 10/28/2019 at 9:44 AM, jvan1973 said:

I don't like any qb in the class better than Jacoby

^^^

On 10/28/2019 at 1:08 PM, ColtV said:

{snip}

I still think getting a QB in the first four rounds next year is paramount. Shelling out multi million contracts for a back-up QB won't be sustainable oonce younger players start getting their extensions. Whether that qb is selected in the 1st round or the 4th will be dictated by Jacoby's play these last 9 games

 

Reality-  here are all of the QB's taken in rounds 1 through 4 ever since Luck was taken in 2012.

 

   Yr      Rnd      Pick
2019       1           1    Kyler Murray*                Cardinals
                1           6    Daniel Jones*                  Giants      
                1          15    Dwayne Haskins+         Redskins 
                2          10    Drew Lock                      Broncos      
                3          36    Will Grier                        Panthers
                4           2    Ryan Finley*                   Bengals 
                4          31    Jarrett Stidham+            Patriots 

 

2018       1            1    Baker Mayfield*             Browns     
                1           3     Sam Darnold*                  Jets 
                1            7    Josh Allen*                        Bills  
                1          10    Josh Rosen--                      Cardinals
                1          32    Lamar Jackson*               Ravens 
                3          12    Mason Rudolph*             Steelers   

 

2017       1             2    Mitchell Trubisky*           Bears
                1          10    Patrick Mahomes*            Chiefs
                1          12    Deshaun Watson*             Texans 
                2          20    DeShone Kizer                    Browns
                3          23    Davis Webb                         Giants    
                3          40    C.J. Beathard+                      49ers
                7          35    Chad Kelly~~                        Broncos   {Colts}

 

2016        1            1    Jared Goff*                          Rams    
                 1            2    Carson Wentz*                   Eagles     
                 1          26    Paxton Lynch                      Broncos
                 2          20    Christian Hackenberg        Jets       
                 3          29    Jacoby Brissett*                Patriots    {Colts}
                 3          31    Cody Kessler                       Browns    
                 4            2    Connor Cook                       Raiders  
                 4          37    Dak Prescott*                     Cowboys

 

2015         1            1    Jameis Winston* +-           Buccaneers   @@@
                  1            2    Marcus Mariota+-              Titans          @@@
                  3          11    Garrett Grayson                 Saints      
                  3          25    Sean Mannion                    Rams  
                  4            4    Bryce Petty                          Jets   

 

2014          1           3    Blake Bortles                       Jaguars
                   1         22    Johnny Manziel                 Browns 
                   1         32    Teddy Bridgewater++       Vikings     
                   2           4    Derek Carr*                       Raiders       
                   2         30    Jimmy Garoppolo*           Patriots  
                   4         20    Logan Thomas                    Cardinals   
                   4         35    Tom Savage                         Texans

 

2013           1         16    EJ Manuel                            Bills    
                    2          7    Geno Smith                          Jets      
                    3        11    Mike Glennon                     Buccaneers  
                    4          1    Matt Barkley                       Eagles  
                    4        13    Ryan Nassib                        Giants  
                    4        15    Tyler Wilson                       Raiders   
                    4        18    Landry Jones                      Steelers

 

18 starters (bold) on NFL teams within these last 6 drafts (47 up to round 4). Who is elite (besides Mahomes!) ? Out of how many taken? And, will they stay that way as DC's get tape and tendencies on the (especially newer) guys. 

 

Colts weren't on this list, but possibly will be another entry on this list for 2020. If so, how will "that guy" stack up?

 

 

[Imgrandojji]

19 hours ago, NannyMcafee said:

 

I believe we can win a SB under JB and I didnt hesitate. Oh the value of opinions. 

My fear is that if we don't win the SB in the next 2 years, that people will find a way to blame Brissett for that.  As if winning the Superbowl is easy and would definitely have happened under another QB. 

 

The grass-is-greener mentality was already there the moment Luck retired, anything short of a Superbowl win will multiply that mentality to a ridiculous degree and make for a very long offseason for those of us who see the potential in letting Brissett develop and refine his game.  

 

31 teams don't win the Superbowl every year.  If we don't win the Superbowl over Brissett's tenure, that can happen for plenty of reasons other than the QB not being studly enough.  After all, Andrew Luck was a stud QB and he didn't win either.

 

Now the question is, can fans actually comprehend this and parse it into their thought processes.  We're so used to having that stud QB and building the offense almost exclusively around the quarterback that I'm honestly not sure.

[SteelCityColt]

3 minutes ago, Imgrandojji said:

My fear is that if we don't win the SB in the next 2 years, that people will find a way to blame Brissett for that.  As if winning the Superbowl is easy and would definitely have happened under another QB. 

 

 

I don't think SBowl wins is a fair way to assess a QB at all, neither is wins really but obviously that tends to go hand in hand with good QB play on the whole. 

 

Would you say it's an unreasonable expectation if you have a "franchise" QB, to expect to make the playoffs most years? No angle to the question there, just qualifying my own thoughts. 

[Imgrandojji]

28 minutes ago, ColtsBlueFL said:

^^^

 

Reality-  here are all of the QB's taken in rounds 1 through 4 ever since Luck was taken in 2012.

 

   Yr      Rnd      Pick
2019       1           1    Kyler Murray*                Cardinals
                1           6    Daniel Jones*                  Giants      
                1          15    Dwayne Haskins+         Redskins 
                2          10    Drew Lock                      Broncos      
                3          36    Will Grier                        Panthers
                4           2    Ryan Finley*                   Bengals 
                4          31    Jarrett Stidham+            Patriots 

 

2018       1            1    Baker Mayfield*             Browns     
                1           3     Sam Darnold*                  Jets 
                1            7    Josh Allen*                        Bills  
                1          10    Josh Rosen--                      Cardinals
                1          32    Lamar Jackson*               Ravens 
                3          12    Mason Rudolph*             Steelers   

 

2017       1             2    Mitchell Trubisky*           Bears
                1          10    Patrick Mahomes*            Chiefs
                1          12    Deshaun Watson*             Texans 
                2          20    DeShone Kizer                    Browns
                3          23    Davis Webb                         Giants    
                3          40    C.J. Beathard+                      49ers
                7          35    Chad Kelly~~                        Broncos   {Colts}

 

2016        1            1    Jared Goff*                          Rams    
                 1            2    Carson Wentz*                   Eagles     
                 1          26    Paxton Lynch                      Broncos
                 2          20    Christian Hackenberg        Jets       
                 3          29    Jacoby Brissett*                Patriots    {Colts}
                 3          31    Cody Kessler                       Browns    
                 4            2    Connor Cook                       Raiders  
                 4          37    Dak Prescott*                     Cowboys

 

2015         1            1    Jameis Winston* +-           Buccaneers   @@@
                  1            2    Marcus Mariota+-              Titans          @@@
                  3          11    Garrett Grayson                 Saints      
                  3          25    Sean Mannion                    Rams  
                  4            4    Bryce Petty                          Jets   

 

2014          1           3    Blake Bortles                       Jaguars
                   1         22    Johnny Manziel                 Browns 
                   1         32    Teddy Bridgewater++       Vikings     
                   2           4    Derek Carr*                       Raiders       
                   2         30    Jimmy Garoppolo*           Patriots  
                   4         20    Logan Thomas                    Cardinals   
                   4         35    Tom Savage                         Texans

 

2013           1         16    EJ Manuel                            Bills    
                    2          7    Geno Smith                          Jets      
                    3        11    Mike Glennon                     Buccaneers  
                    4          1    Matt Barkley                       Eagles  
                    4        13    Ryan Nassib                        Giants  
                    4        15    Tyler Wilson                       Raiders   
                    4        18    Landry Jones                      Steelers

 

18 starters (bold) on NFL teams within these last 6 drafts (47 up to round 4). Who is elite (besides Mahomes!) ? Out of how many taken? And, will they stay that way as DC's get tape and tendencies on the guys. 

 

Colts weren't on this list, but possibly will be another entry on this list for 2020. If so, how will "that guy" stack up?

 

 

Is the last time the New England Patriots took a QB in the first round still Drew Bledsoe?

 

I'm convinced we've got a gem on our hands not unlike Tom Brady.  He's not exactly the same player, but he's shown me that same indomitable work ethic, pristine leadership and absolute confidence, and we've seen flashes of a similar ability to elevate his game in crunch time.

 

Quite frankly I think it would be foolish to discard everything that Jacoby is to replace him with a guy who throw the ball a little harder but has none of the leadership, work ethic and maturity that Brissett has shown in spades.

 

I'll take an above average guy who works his butt off to be the best he can be, and has the locker room behind him, over a quarterback with better natural ability but nowhere near the same flair and work ethic.

 

Of course the ideal is to get that stud and instill that work ethic and leadership into them, that's where your Peyton Mannings come from, but obviously that doesn't always happen, and if I had tto choose one thing to forfeit, I'd forfeit elite ability over leadership and work ethic every time.

[Imgrandojji]

1 minute ago, SteelCityColt said:

 

I don't think SBowl wins is a fair way to assess a QB at all, neither is wins really but obviously that tends to go hand in hand with good QB play on the whole. 

 

Would you say it's an unreasonable expectation if you have a "franchise" QB, to expect to make the playoffs most years? No angle to the question there, just qualifying my own thoughts. 

Oh yes, that's reasonable,  And it's fair to expect to win a few playoff games.  Everything else comes down to a mixture of good fortune and timely execution.  The good news is that so far Jacoby has been able to deliver both when it's absolutely needed -- even if it doesn't always look pretty.

[SteelCityColt]

3 minutes ago, Imgrandojji said:

Oh yes, that's reasonable,  And it's fair to expect to win a few playoff games.  Everything else comes down to a mixture of good fortune and timely execution.  The good news is that so far Jacoby has been able to deliver both when it's absolutely needed -- even if it doesn't always look pretty.

 

That you can't deny, and it points well to a mindset that isn't affected by pressure, obviously key in the big "win or go home" games. 

[SteelCityColt]

6 minutes ago, Imgrandojji said:

Is the last time the New England Patriots took a QB in the first round still Drew Bledsoe?

 

I believe that is the case, but they then have also seemed to purposefully cycled drafting a QB in the mid rounds every 2-3 years even with Brady in place. It's a sensible strategy, especially if you can leverage it into trade capital later down the line. 

[Valpo2004]

On 10/28/2019 at 1:25 PM, Myles said:

Sure puts us in a tough spot.   Ballard has this team in the later steps of the rebuild.   Brissett has shown to be good enough to win games so it would be tough to just start over with a rookie QB.  Even good rookie QB's rarely put up numbers as good as Brissett.  

 

The tougher spot it puts us in is that JB and the team is more than good enough to win plenty of regular season games against lesser opponents.  

 

To move up for a top QB would probably require a great deal of draft capital.  

[Valpo2004]

55 minutes ago, ColtsBlueFL said:

^^^

 

Reality-  here are all of the QB's taken in rounds 1 through 4 ever since Luck was taken in 2012.

 

   Yr      Rnd      Pick
2019       1           1    Kyler Murray*                Cardinals
                1           6    Daniel Jones*                  Giants      
                1          15    Dwayne Haskins+         Redskins 
                2          10    Drew Lock                      Broncos      
                3          36    Will Grier                        Panthers
                4           2    Ryan Finley*                   Bengals 
                4          31    Jarrett Stidham+            Patriots 

 

2018       1            1    Baker Mayfield*             Browns     
                1           3     Sam Darnold*                  Jets 
                1            7    Josh Allen*                        Bills  
                1          10    Josh Rosen--                      Cardinals
                1          32    Lamar Jackson*               Ravens 
                3          12    Mason Rudolph*             Steelers   

 

2017       1             2    Mitchell Trubisky*           Bears
                1          10    Patrick Mahomes*            Chiefs
                1          12    Deshaun Watson*             Texans 
                2          20    DeShone Kizer                    Browns
                3          23    Davis Webb                         Giants    
                3          40    C.J. Beathard+                      49ers
                7          35    Chad Kelly~~                        Broncos   {Colts}

 

2016        1            1    Jared Goff*                          Rams    
                 1            2    Carson Wentz*                   Eagles     
                 1          26    Paxton Lynch                      Broncos
                 2          20    Christian Hackenberg        Jets       
                 3          29    Jacoby Brissett*                Patriots    {Colts}
                 3          31    Cody Kessler                       Browns    
                 4            2    Connor Cook                       Raiders  
                 4          37    Dak Prescott*                     Cowboys

 

2015         1            1    Jameis Winston* +-           Buccaneers   @@@
                  1            2    Marcus Mariota+-              Titans          @@@
                  3          11    Garrett Grayson                 Saints      
                  3          25    Sean Mannion                    Rams  
                  4            4    Bryce Petty                          Jets   

 

2014          1           3    Blake Bortles                       Jaguars
                   1         22    Johnny Manziel                 Browns 
                   1         32    Teddy Bridgewater++       Vikings     
                   2           4    Derek Carr*                       Raiders       
                   2         30    Jimmy Garoppolo*           Patriots  
                   4         20    Logan Thomas                    Cardinals   
                   4         35    Tom Savage                         Texans

 

2013           1         16    EJ Manuel                            Bills    
                    2          7    Geno Smith                          Jets      
                    3        11    Mike Glennon                     Buccaneers  
                    4          1    Matt Barkley                       Eagles  
                    4        13    Ryan Nassib                        Giants  
                    4        15    Tyler Wilson                       Raiders   
                    4        18    Landry Jones                      Steelers

 

18 starters (bold) on NFL teams within these last 6 drafts (47 up to round 4). Who is elite (besides Mahomes!) ? Out of how many taken? And, will they stay that way as DC's get tape and tendencies on the guys. 

 

Colts weren't on this list, but possibly will be another entry on this list for 2020. If so, how will "that guy" stack up?

 

 

 

What is elite?  Top 10?  

 

I'd argue for Watson, Wentz and Goff being in the top 10.  

[Myles]

44 minutes ago, Valpo2004 said:

 

What is elite?  Top 10?  

 

I'd argue for Watson, Wentz and Goff being in the top 10.  

I think it shows more about how low the % is of getting a QB better than Brissett.    I would put 8-9 of Of those QB's ahead of Brissett.   So out of 47 Brissett would be around the 10th best.   

Grabbing a future great QB is not an easy thing to do.

[SteelCityColt]

24 minutes ago, Myles said:

I think it shows more about how low the % is of getting a QB better than Brissett.    I would put 8-9 of Of those QB's ahead of Brissett.   So out of 47 Brissett would be around the 10th best.   

Grabbing a future great QB is not an easy thing to do.

Exactly. 
 

One argument that can be made is that Brissett has a high floor at least. Does that free you up to draft a QB without placing any expectation on them and not tying the immediate future on a dice roll. Only if there was justifiable draft value of course.

[Imgrandojji]

That's reasonable too.  Brissett has all the qualities of an absolutely great backup QB who could mentor a QBOTF and get him as ready as he could possibly be.  Sort of like people keep trying to use Ryan Fitzpatrick to do, only actually good at it. 

 

But I do think that would waste his potential as a starter which appears to be as at least an above average QB1.

[NannyMcafee]

 

 

1 hour ago, Imgrandojji said:

My fear is that if we don't win the SB in the next 2 years, that people will find a way to blame Brissett for that.  As if winning the Superbowl is easy and would definitely have happened under another QB. 

 

The grass-is-greener mentality was already there the moment Luck retired, anything short of a Superbowl win will multiply that mentality to a ridiculous degree and make for a very long offseason for those of us who see the potential in letting Brissett develop and refine his game.  

 

31 teams don't win the Superbowl every year.  If we don't win the Superbowl over Brissett's tenure, that can happen for plenty of reasons other than the QB not being studly enough.  After all, Andrew Luck was a stud QB and he didn't win either.

 

Now the question is, can fans actually comprehend this and parse it into their thought processes.  We're so used to having that stud QB and building the offense almost exclusively around the quarterback that I'm honestly not sure.

 

The grass will always be greener on the other side. It wasnt until Ballard got here and understood the importance if the lines (imo most of the cap should be invested here) that we actually started to see a complete team, and a vast majority of the league has yet to take the route that Ballard is taking by building through the draft and majorly building the lines through the draft. 

 

I am a major fan of this route to success. Therefore I dont believe we need a HOF level franchise QB in order to win SBs, and someone here has even shown, the elite QBs rarely win multiple SBs. I dont care about winning one. Yeah. It's great. 2006 was awesome. But it was one SB when we had the ability to go to multiple. Why couldn't we make it more? The Dline couldn't stop the run, and the oline couldn't run block. Therefore we had a lot of one and done in the playoffs. The team couldn't carry Peyton. They could barely help him. He had the fastest release time in the NFL because the rush was getting to him. 

 

People here are star struck when it comes to QBs. I'm glad ballard is not. 

 

[Myles]

1 hour ago, SteelCityColt said:

Exactly. 
 

One argument that can be made is that Brissett has a high floor at least. Does that free you up to draft a QB without placing any expectation on them and not tying the immediate future on a dice roll. Only if there was justifiable draft value of course.

It's both a tough spot and a nice spot to be in.   

There is potential to get a better QB through the draft.   But it's hard to find a player who is better than Brissett at this point and you would be drafting a player who wouldn't play next season.   This team isn't far from being a complete good team.  I would much rather see the Colts draft a DL in the first round that could help the team next season.   It'd be different if we were in the first year of a rebuild, but this team has the potential to win a playoff game now.   

[SteelCityColt]

18 minutes ago, Myles said:

It's both a tough spot and a nice spot to be in.   

There is potential to get a better QB through the draft.   But it's hard to find a player who is better than Brissett at this point and you would be drafting a player who wouldn't play next season.   This team isn't far from being a complete good team.  I would much rather see the Colts draft a DL in the first round that could help the team next season.   It'd be different if we were in the first year of a rebuild, but this team has the potential to win a playoff game now.   

 

I don't disagree at all here, I think you'd be talking a Jackson situation, where he fell further than expected and the Ravens took the value gamble to pick him up. Although I'd be thinking more 2nd to 3rd round and it's got to be a guy you really like. 

 

Draft for opportunity not need. If there's better value players than a QB, then don't take a QB.

[NannyMcafee]

Would fans here be satisfied with JB if he were one tier below elite? Because I think he can absolutely reach that level. Hes smart. Hes clearly progressing as the season goes on. The impatience here for JB is crazy to me. Do the Colts not have the time to let him develop for 2 seasons and see where we are at, at that point? I just dont understand the lack of faith when JB has only showed improvement throughout the first half of this season. I dont understand the worry about letting him develop. Does not having an elite to HOF level QB really make a lot of you THAT nervous? 

 

I think he is not far off from Russel Wilson's level. That is great QB talent imo. 

[ColtsBlueFL]

23 minutes ago, Myles said:

There is potential to get a better QB through the draft.   But it's hard to find a player who is better than Brissett at this point and you would be drafting a player who wouldn't play next season. 

 

Valid.  But I think the real question boils down to-

 

Can the Colts obtain a QB that will progress faster and farther and pass JB7 a few years down the road?

 

The next Q is at what cost will those QB's be down the road?

 

As CB says, they can't miss that putt. At worst they have to get it next to the hole.  That's not guaranteed either.

[Myles]

24 minutes ago, NannyMcafee said:

Would fans here be satisfied with JB if he were one tier below elite? Because I think he can absolutely reach that level. Hes smart. Hes clearly progressing as the season goes on. The impatience here for JB is crazy to me. Do the Colts not have the time to let him develop for 2 seasons and see where we are at, at that point? I just dont understand the lack of faith when JB has only showed improvement throughout the first half of this season. I dont understand the worry about letting him develop. Does not having an elite to HOF level QB really make a lot of you THAT nervous? 

 

I think he is not far off from Russel Wilson's level. That is great QB talent imo. 

To play devil's advocate here:

It's not like he's a rookie.   He spent time with the Pats.  He started a season here (bad team).  He was on the team all of last year.  I kind of think he is close to his ceiling now, which is a top 15 QB in the league.  

However, there are variables.  Of course there is room for improvement.   Will Reich gain more trust in him and open up the playbook?  Will our WR's get healthy?  Can the Colts team be good enough to win with a top 15 QB talent?

 

 

[NannyMcafee]

21 minutes ago, Myles said:

To play devil's advocate here:

It's not like he's a rookie.   He spent time with the Pats.  He started a season here (bad team).  He was on the team all of last year.  I kind of think he is close to his ceiling now, which is a top 15 QB in the league.  

However, there are variables.  Of course there is room for improvement.   Will Reich gain more trust in him and open up the playbook?  Will our WR's get healthy?  Can the Colts team be good enough to win with a top 15 QB talent?

 

 

 

Yes he did play for the Patriots and us in 2017, and he keeps improving is the point. He hasn't shown to have reached his ceiling. Only that he seems to keep getting better as he plays, which is the main goal right? He keeps showing improvement. From horrible accuracy to not scanning the field and he shows some sort of improvement throughout his starting expereince. He could end the year on a bad note, we dont know yet, I just feel like several people are writing him off as if he has reached his ceiling already when he is clearly showing otherwise. 

 

Our fans will not be satisfied until he throws for 300+ yards week in and week out. Our fans arent satisfied with the run first approach, successful or not and the reactions on this forum are proof of that. 

 

In the end we are all just opinionated colts fans me included. I just dont understand the lack of patience. 

 

[Myles]

5 minutes ago, NannyMcafee said:

 

Yes he did play for the Patriots and us in 2017, and he keeps improving is the point. He hasn't shown to have reached his ceiling. Only that he seems to keep getting better as he plays, which is the main goal right? He keeps showing improvement. From horrible accuracy to not scanning the field and he shows some sort of improvement throughout his starting expereince. He could end the year on a bad note, we dont know yet, I just feel like several people are writing him off as if he has reached his ceiling already when he is clearly showing otherwise. 

 

 

 

 

I think that is what is bothering some people.   He really hasn't shows improvement as this season has went on.  

Completion %

78

61

76

52

62

67

60

If anything it is trending down.  

 

Again, I'm playing the other side.   I'm actually pretty happy with what he has turned out to be.   I think the team is close to being solid enough to win consistently with a top 15 QB.   

[throwing BBZ]

7 minutes ago, Myles said:

 

I think that is what is bothering some people.   He really hasn't shows improvement as this season has went on.  

Completion %

78

61

76

52

62

67

60

If anything it is trending down.  

 

Again, I'm playing the other side.   I'm actually pretty happy with what he has turned out to be.   I think the team is close to being solid enough to win consistently with a top 15 QB.   

 

  chuckle
 He clearly has shown improvement as the season has gone along.
 Only a _____ would base their judgement on completition %.
  The number of variables is very long.

[Myles]

Just now, throwing BBZ said:

 

  chuckle
 He clearly has shown improvement as the season has gone along.
 Only a _____ would base their judgement on completition %.
  The number of variables is very long.

Some improvement of course, but not allot.  

I'ts not just completion %.    TD's, INT's, and QB rating seem to trend at a fairly even rate on average.   It's not like you can look at the combination of everything and say you see definite improvement.    

[Imgrandojji]

12 minutes ago, Myles said:

Some improvement of course, but not allot.  

I'ts not just completion %.    TD's, INT's, and QB rating seem to trend at a fairly even rate on average.   It's not like you can look at the combination of everything and say you see definite improvement.    

Nevermind that the quality of the opponent actually matters in a discussion like this, and varies greatly from game to game

 

 you're dealing with small sample size bias any time you try to use stats on a game to game basis.  You have some chance of normalization if you use average rates over the season to date, but even that is sketchy as sample sizes go.

 

permit me to share an alternative theory: 

 

When they were playing the first few games they severely limited what mistakes Brissett was allowed to make out there and he was out there to hand the ball off and to make high percentage throws, usually less than 10 yards.

 

After Atlanta the kid gloves came off and Brissett was allowed to play with a bit more risk and take a few more chances that move the team downfield.  This led to the embarrassing pick 6 in Oakland an a few other mistakes, and to Brissett attempting more low percentage passes that brought his average completion rate down.  It also led to Brissett carrying more of the yardage on average as Reich grew to trust him a bit more.

 

So we're throwing more, and taking more risks, than we were in the first 2 weeks.  Is there any wonder the complete rate goes down?  Considering the altnerative is literally never taking the training wheels off, I think things are moving in the right direction for now.

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

Lol to not showing improvement. Everyone was praising him after the Texan game. No game is going to be the same. Brady put up only 16 pts against the bills. There are teams with good defenses. Guess what Jacoby has beat the two best defenses we have played this year. Your not going to score at will against every team. We have won games in all different ways this year. That is a sign of a good team.

[Myles]

14 minutes ago, Imgrandojji said:

Nevermind that the quality of the opponent actually matters in a discussion like this, and varies greatly from game to game

 

 you're dealing with small sample size bias any time you try to use stats on a game to game basis.  You have some chance of normalization if you use average rates over the season to date, but even that is sketchy as sample sizes go.

 

permit me to share an alternative theory: 

 

When they were playing the first few games they severely limited what mistakes Brissett was allowed to make out there and he was out there to hand the ball off and to make high percentage throws, usually less than 10 yards.

 

After Atlanta the kid gloves came off and Brissett was allowed to play with a bit more risk and take a few more chances that move the team downfield.  This led to the embarrassing pick 6 in Oakland an a few other mistakes, and to Brissett attempting more low percentage passes that brought his average completion rate down.  It also led to Brissett carrying more of the yardage on average as Reich grew to trust him a bit more.

 

So we're throwing more, and taking more risks, than we were in the first 2 weeks.  Is there any wonder the complete rate goes down?  Considering the altnerative is literally never taking the training wheels off, I think things are moving in the right direction for now.

Good stuff.   I don't really disagree.   Remember, I'm team Brissett and am just playing the other side for this.

 

But seriously, I have watched each game (sometimes twice) and I don't know that he looks better now than he did to start the season.  Much is play-calling.   Much is because I thought he looked good in the first couple games.   Some is because he's not a rookie who is going to show lots of improvement with each game played.  

I would think the same just from my eye test and not the stats.   The stats just confirm it for me.   

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

19 minutes ago, Myles said:

Good stuff.   I don't really disagree.   Remember, I'm team Brissett and am just playing the other side for this.

 

But seriously, I have watched each game (sometimes twice) and I don't know that he looks better now than he did to start the season.  Much is play-calling.   Much is because I thought he looked good in the first couple games.   Some is because he's not a rookie who is going to show lots of improvement with each game played.  

I would think the same just from my eye test and not the stats.   The stats just confirm it for me.   

He still has only 22 starts with the colts. Only 7 with Reich. Game experience is crucial. Imagine this off season when he actually takes his own time to work with the WR like Luck did. That wasn’t his job last year. This is his team now.  We have seen improvements but I think next season we will see the biggest with a entire off season as the starter. Plus Cain and Campbell will get more reps with him in the off season and Camp.

[SteelCityColt]

5 minutes ago, Chloe6124 said:

He still has only 22 starts with the colts. Only 7 with Reich. Game experience is crucial. Imagine this off season when he actually takes his own time to work with the WR like Luck did. That wasn’t his job last year. This is his team now.  We have seen improvements but I think next season we will see the biggest with a entire off season as the starter. Plus Cain and Campbell will get more reps with him in the off season and Camp.

Just out of curiosity, who do you think took the majority of first team reps at QB this year in camp...

[Myles]

5 minutes ago, Chloe6124 said:

He still has only 22 starts with the colts. Only 7 with Reich. Game experience is crucial. Imagine this off season when he actually takes his own time to work with the WR like Luck did. That wasn’t his job last year. This is his team now.  We have seen improvements but I think next season we will see the biggest with a entire off season as the starter. Plus Cain and Campbell will get more reps with him in the off season and Camp.

I don't disagree that he can and will improve.   I'm just saying that I haven't seen improvement this season.  

[Myles]

12 minutes ago, SteelCityColt said:

Just out of curiosity, who do you think took the majority of first team reps at QB this year in camp...

That's a great point.