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WarGhost21

Jacoby Brissett Impressions (Perma Merge)

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1 minute ago, chad72 said:

 

My worry is that the Steelers' D might expose more of these weaknesses next week.

 

Steelers D is pretty good and the blueprint is out on us in some respects.

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4 minutes ago, chad72 said:

 

My worry is that the Steelers' D might expose more of these weaknesses next week.

Great.   Now I have a reason to watch a miserable matchup between the Steelers and Dolphins tonight.

 

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8 minutes ago, Myles said:

Great.   Now I have a reason to watch a miserable matchup between the Steelers and Dolphins tonight.

 

 

I'm just the gift that keeps on giving... 

 

In all seriousness, they have some very good young pieces IMO. Top 10 in DVOA, and that's with more pressure to perform not having a good O on the field currently. 

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10 hours ago, WarGhost21 said:

Going into this game, Brissett has performed amazingly well. He has played game manager, and also shown he can be a gunslinger (vs Houston). The only thing we had yet to see from Brissett was how he would respond to a last minute scenario with everything going against the team and the game on the line. Even though overall it was a sloppy performance for Indy, I saw what I wanted to see: Brissett has a clutch gene. I wasn't sure before, and that was the only piece missing from his resume. After this, though, I think Brissett could be just as good as any QB we might select in next years draft, if not better. So I guess my question for the forum is:

 

Have you seen enough from Brissett to be confident in him at the helm for the foreseeable future, or do we still need to look elsewhere? I think he might just have what it takes to bring this team to glory.

I'm still on the fence. I think he could be.  But I would say I'm comfortable giving him thru next season before passing judgment.  I'm curious if he'll make some improvements now that he'll be the focus of the coaches and developing staff over the next off season.  He really needs to work on his reads a bit. I think things will slow down for him as the season goes along and he'll be ok.  That play at the end, thats the type of play that makes a QB go from good to great. Very Aaron Rogers like on that one.

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14 minutes ago, SteelCityColt said:

 

Steelers D is pretty good and the blueprint is out on us in some respects.

what would that be?  We've played 3, very good D's in a row. 

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2 minutes ago, Chloe6124 said:

Looking at stats the Steelers defense is not as good as the broncos. This was not a blueprint.  

Exactly. 

 

Steelers rank 17-19 in every Defense category. Meanwhile, the Broncos are in the top 5 in all but one category on Defense, that being rushing where they are 17th.  Steelers are 19th in that category.

I just hope we come out a bit more fired up than we did sunday, we seemed flatlined from the outset

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5 minutes ago, csmopar said:

what would that be?  We've played 3, very good D's in a row. 

 

I mean it's all just basic football, stop the run, take away the short throws and make them beat you long if you don't think the QB can go deep. Not like I'm saying it's a silver bullet if you get me.

 

One thing I would add is that disguised or delayed blitzes seemed to cause havoc yesterday. 

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3 minutes ago, SteelCityColt said:

 

I mean it's all just basic football, stop the run, take away the short throws and make them beat you long if you don't think the QB can go deep. Not like I'm saying it's a silver bullet if you get me.

 

One thing I would add is that disguised or delayed blitzes seemed to cause havoc yesterday. 

here's the thing, we know Brissett can sling it deep and accurately. I think right now, Reich is still holding him back. For what reason, Im not sure. I think some of it is lack of WR and maybe part strategy.

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1 minute ago, csmopar said:

Exactly. 

 

Steelers rank 17-19 in every Defense category. Meanwhile, the Broncos are in the top 5 in all but one category on Defense, that being rushing where they are 17th.  Steelers are 19th in that category.

I just hope we come out a bit more fired up than we did sunday, we seemed flatlined from the outset

 

Which metrics are you using here? DVOA they're still top 10. 

 

Some of the catergories aren't... good for assessing a D IMO. Certainly the volume stuff, and I don't like the per game as much as per defensive snap. 

 

Looking at just yards per play (and I have a small contention about yards anyway) they're 9th in the league (Broncos 7th). Breaking it down to pass/run they're 15th/6th respectively. They're also 12th best in the league for 1st downs given up by penalty. 

 

I'm also worried given that we struggled against the blitz and they are the 5th in the league blitzing 34% of snaps (Broncos interestingly only 25th highest). Also given how much we struggled with pressure in the QB's face yesterday (understandable), it's  not good they're 4th best in QB pressure %. 

 

So yeah.. depends what metrics you wanna use. 

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Just now, csmopar said:

here's the thing, we know Brissett can sling it deep and accurately. I think right now, Reich is still holding him back. For what reason, Im not sure. I think some of it is lack of WR and maybe part strategy.

 

I don't disagree on accuracy. The key is if it's by design, or by failing to see the opportunity. The WRs aren't doing as bad as people seem to think. 

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4 minutes ago, SteelCityColt said:

 

Which metrics are you using here? DVOA they're still top 10. 

 

Some of the catergories aren't... good for assessing a D IMO. Certainly the volume stuff, and I don't like the per game as much as per defensive snap. 

 

Looking at just yards per play (and I have a small contention about yards anyway) they're 9th in the league (Broncos 7th). Breaking it down to pass/run they're 15th/6th respectively. They're also 12th best in the league for 1st downs given up by penalty. 

 

I'm also worried given that we struggled against the blitz and they are the 5th in the league blitzing 34% of snaps (Broncos interestingly only 25th highest). Also given how much we struggled with pressure in the QB's face yesterday (understandable), it's  not good they're 4th best in QB pressure %. 

 

So yeah.. depends what metrics you wanna use. 

nfl.com team defense stats. per game.

 

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10 minutes ago, SteelCityColt said:

 

I mean it's all just basic football, stop the run, take away the short throws and make them beat you long if you don't think the QB can go deep. Not like I'm saying it's a silver bullet if you get me.

 

One thing I would add is that disguised or delayed blitzes seemed to cause havoc yesterday. 

Spot on.   Having a blueprint doesn't mean you can execute it.   

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1 minute ago, csmopar said:

nfl.com team defense stats. per game.

 

See my issue, with per game is it doesn't account for snap count, so if your O is poor and you're seeing more snaps, then you'll have greater volume most likely. It will also push up you per game rate. 

 

I don't think they're the best D, but I don't think they're as bad you've made out.

1 minute ago, Myles said:

Spot on.   Having a blueprint doesn't mean you can execute it.   

 

Bingo. 

 

It's like KC this year, people think oh wow, they've been worked out. I think people knew last year to try and grind the run against them and play TOP, but they had a much better D and could stop the run last year.

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2 hours ago, DougDew said:

Too early to tell if Brissett is the future.  Need to get some stability and even more talent at WR before we have a good constant by which to measure his performances, IMO.

 

 

Pascal, UDFA

Cain, 6th rounder

Fountain, 5th rounder

Rogers, UDFA

Doyle, UDFA. (but has shown to be pretty good)

 

Hines 4th rounder.

Mack 4 th rounder. 

Wilkins 5th rounder 

 

Funchess and Campbell haven't played.  Not sure what's up with Ebron.  Both DF and EE have been cast off from the team who drafted them.

 

Maybe more talent and more consistent talent is needed at the skilled positions is warranted before we can really judge JB?

Agreed man. For some reason ppl keep forgetting this or downplaying it

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Just now, Mr.Debonair said:

Agreed man. For some reason ppl keep forgetting this or downplaying it

 

I think  you could do this exercise for a lot of teams and find they're lacking in terms of draft capital invested in skill positions. 

 

Production is all that matters and some of those players have been very productive (relative to their role anyway). 

 

Not to say I don't think we can improve at WR/RB. 

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2 minutes ago, CantBeStopped said:

Imo we've seen what he is. No more no less. An average starter

So far this season, all his stats combine for at least an above average starter.  I'd say good.

Certainly room for improvement.  

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9 minutes ago, SteelCityColt said:

 

See my issue, with per game is it doesn't account for snap count, so if your O is poor and you're seeing more snaps, then you'll have greater volume most likely. It will also push up you per game rate. 

 

I don't think they're the best D, but I don't think they're as bad you've made out.

 

Bingo. 

 

It's like KC this year, people think oh wow, they've been worked out. I think people knew last year to try and grind the run against them and play TOP, but they had a much better D and could stop the run last year.

I didn't say they were bad, just said they were average. I think they aren't as tough as the Texans or Broncos. 

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14 minutes ago, Myles said:

So far this season, all his stats combine for at least an above average starter.  I'd say good.

Certainly room for improvement.  

I don't think he's bad. I just think he's the guys that isn't gonna win a lot of games by himself. But also isn't going to lose many because of himself either

 

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1 minute ago, CantBeStopped said:

I don't think he's bad. I just think he's the guys that isn't gonna win a lot of games by himself. But also isn't going to lose many because of himself either

 

I agree with that.  I'd put him somewhere in the 11-13 range.   Mostly because he takes care of the ball.  That hurts him in some ways, but QB turnovers are killer in the games.  I noticed a couple times when he was being pressured yesterday that he turned his head to see if he was about to get sacked from behind.  It probably cost him from completing a long throw down the field, but it helped him not get the ball stripped.  Not full proof but taking care of the football is a strong part of his game and it helps make some of his weaker aspects tolerable.

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Just now, Myles said:

I agree with that.  I'd put him somewhere in the 11-13 range.   Mostly because he takes care of the ball.  That hurts him in some ways, but QB turnovers are killer in the games.  I noticed a couple times when he was being pressured yesterday that he turned his head to see if he was about to get sacked from behind.  It probably cost him from completing a long throw down the field, but it helped him not get the ball stripped.  Not full proof but taking care of the football is a strong part of his game and it helps make some of his weaker aspects tolerable.

 

Why you'd rank say a Fitzpatrick lower, or a Winston can't be trusted. 

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3 minutes ago, SteelCityColt said:

 

Why you'd rank say a Fitzpatrick lower, or a Winston can't be trusted. 

I'm not sure I understand what you are asking?

I would certainly have Brissett ranked over both of those QB's.  

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4 minutes ago, Myles said:

I'm not sure I understand what you are asking?

I would certainly have Brissett ranked over both of those QB's.  

 

I mean, I was saying that's the biggest knock on those QBs and why you'd put them lower than say Brissett. 

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3 hours ago, lollygagger8 said:

As long as he quits staring down receivers, he'll be fine. His arm strength is elite and his escape act yesterday reminded me of ol' what's his name. 

 

He did great not staring down WR's in the Texans game, but came right back to it this game. 

He needs better wrs. If we could draft a hopkins, julio, or moss like we to pair with Hilton  our offense  would take off.

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I think most fans are too critical of Jacoby. That, or they have unrealistic expectations this early in his career. There are obvious aspects of his game that he needs to work on - getting faster on his reads, getting the ball out faster. Those should happen with coaching and practice. Let's face it, the NFL is faster than anything he's seen in the past, especially against good caliber teams. But he's got some excellent traits, too - accurate, unflappable, moves well, great leadership. Those you can't coach as easily. Color me impressed.

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41 minutes ago, SteelCityColt said:

 

Which metrics are you using here? DVOA they're still top 10. 

 

Some of the catergories aren't... good for assessing a D IMO. Certainly the volume stuff, and I don't like the per game as much as per defensive snap. 

 

Looking at just yards per play (and I have a small contention about yards anyway) they're 9th in the league (Broncos 7th). Breaking it down to pass/run they're 15th/6th respectively. They're also 12th best in the league for 1st downs given up by penalty. 

 

I'm also worried given that we struggled against the blitz and they are the 5th in the league blitzing 34% of snaps (Broncos interestingly only 25th highest). Also given how much we struggled with pressure in the QB's face yesterday (understandable), it's  not good they're 4th best in QB pressure %. 

 

So yeah.. depends what metrics you wanna use. 

The one I have found to be the most accurate is the Aikmann Efficiency Ratings.

 

Through Week 7 AER had Denver defense at #4 and Pittsburgh D at #8.

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1 hour ago, SteelCityColt said:

 

I don't disagree on accuracy. The key is if it's by design, or by failing to see the opportunity. The WRs aren't doing as bad as people seem to think. 

Frank  is holding him back til playoff time when he will go on a tear like 2012 flacco lol

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2 minutes ago, Coffeedrinker said:

The one I have found to be the most accurate is the Aikmann Efficiency Ratings.

 

Through Week 7 AER had Denver defense at #4 and Pittsburgh D at #8.

 

I do like the Aikmann Ratings too. Like all these things, they're sources of info, not gospel. Take them all in, weigh them up, compare with what you've seen and you'll have an informed opinion at least. After all that's all it ever will be.. opinion. 

 

Sounds about right to me btw. 

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Don't think so.  He's a slow decision maker, and that is probably not going to improve too much.  It's is just who he is.  A positive is that he doesn't make as many bad throws, but I think the negative outweitghs this. 

 

I can't imagine paying this guy starters money honestly.  If you could pay him half of a regular starters salary then maybe.

 

His is very very limited.

 

The only possibility I see is a Big Ben type of  thing.  Standing in there taking shots and having guys fall off of him.  But he doesn't seem to want to absorb contact, and I don't think anyone will be able to maintain a career taking the punishment that Ben has.  That play out of the end zone yesterday was that type of play, but he doesn't do it very often.  Has an eyes downfield issue.

 

People blame the line yesterday, but there were multiple blitzes.  Where are the hot reads?  Where is the presnap adjustments?

 

 

 

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26 minutes ago, SteelCityColt said:

 

Why you'd rank say a Fitzpatrick lower, or a Winston can't be trusted. 

Winston, fitz, and mayfield make considerably more mistakes  under  pressure  than Brissett.  Even Luck did. Brissett  is much smarter with the football.  If he wasn't  we probably  could have gotten  blow out yesterday  due to a 4 int performance. You don't  see that with Brissett.  Even on his bad days we are in position  to win so far this year. Meanwhile  someone  like the allen kid from the panthers threw a bunch of ints and got beat 51 to 13.

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2 minutes ago, Stephen said:

Winston, fitz, and mayfield make considerably more mistakes  under  pressure  than Brissett.  Even Luck did. Brissett  is much smarter with the football.  If he wasn't  we probably  could have gotten  blow out yesterday  due to a 4 int performance. You don't  see that with Brissett.  Even on his bad days we are in position  to win so far this year. Meanwhile  someone  like the allen kid from the panthers threw a bunch of ints and got beat 51 to 13.

 

Yes....

 

that was the point I was making. 

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4 minutes ago, SteelCityColt said:

 

I do like the Aikmann Ratings too. Like all these things, they're sources of info, not gospel. Take them all in, weigh them up, compare with what you've seen and you'll have an informed opinion at least. After all that's all it ever will be.. opinion. 

 

Sounds about right to me btw. 

yeah, that is why I like the AER, it seems to not only pass the logic test but also the results on the field.   But yes, they are not gospel but it's the best single source.

 

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I think the outcome bias is staggering.  WE have a good record, but as much as we could have beaten LAC, we could have easily lost every game we've played too.

 

Lots of things have had to occur for us to be 5-2.  The QB was a signigicant asset in only one of our wins IMO.  That would be last weeks game.  Other than that I think he is more likely a net negative than a net positive.

 

The Houston game is our only impressive win IMO.  But that was at home and Houston isn't great.  In KC JB was a negative in the 1st half and a non factor in the second.  

 

The best win besides Houston would have been TENN and JB wasn't great in that one to say the least.  


We have 5 wins and a net +7 total margin of victory.  We are winning more than would be predicted. 


Hope it keeps up, but in the long run, it won't.

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1 minute ago, Nickster said:

Don't think so.  He's a slow decision maker, and that is probably not going to improve too much.  It's is just who he is.  A positive is that he doesn't make as many bad throws, but I think the negative outweitghs this. 

 

I can't imagine paying this guy starters money honestly.  If you could pay him half of a regular starters salary then maybe.

 

His is very very limited.

 

The only possibility I see is a Big Ben type of  thing.  Standing in there taking shots and having guys fall off of him.  But he doesn't seem to want to absorb contact, and I don't think anyone will be able to maintain a career taking the punishment that Ben has.  That play out of the end zone yesterday was that type of play, but he doesn't do it very often.  Has an eyes downfield issue.

 

People blame the line yesterday, but there were multiple blitzes.  Where are the hot reads?  Where is the presnap adjustments?

 

 

 

Frank Reich  didn't  set up the hot roads. In that situation  parris  Campbell  should  have been utilized.  I think Brissett  will get better. If we get some rookie qb he will probably throw alot of ints and instead of close games we may have blowouts

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I'm on the fence.  With Luck this was a top 5 offense in yards and points per game.

 

With Brissett we are middle of the road.  He's not been bad but at the same time I sort of feel like it could be a situation where our quarterback is holding us back.  

 

But at the same time, it's working this team wins.  And that is also the problem because this team isn't likely to pick one of the top QB's in the draft because of that.  

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14 minutes ago, Stephen said:

He needs better wrs. If we could draft a hopkins, julio, or moss like we to pair with Hilton  our offense  would take off.

 

 I agree. 

 

If Jacoby had a good #2 (like Wayne was - and Funchess is supposed to be) to throw to, he would be much better off.

 

 

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I want to see what he can do with Funchess back and Campbell more integrated in the offense.

 

I think Jacoby has been ok this ear, we are 5-2 after all, but his receiving options have been poor. And that doesn't help. TY is his only reliable receiver right now and other teams know this. Ebron has been out of sorts, I don't know why. Right now, if TY isn't open, he is throwing to Doyle, Pascal and Rodgers which are solid pros, but that just isn't ideal.

 

Let's see how he plays with TY and Funchess lined up on the same field, with hopefully Ebron and Campbell more involved. He played very well against the Chargers the only time that happened. That's when I expect him to be very good. It's hard to be a QB in this league with the receiving core not playing well.

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1 hour ago, SteelCityColt said:

The answer is so far... I don't know. I've seen good, bad and plain ugly over 7 games so far. Current answer is he's a mid to low range starter in the NFL, which you might argue is enough. 

 

What I find worrying is that is seems a common opinion that a lot of the bad aspects of his play will improve with time. I'm not so sure, they seem to be issues going all the way back to college, which explains his draft position somewhat, notably:

 

Inconsistent week to week (but this could be down to gameplan)

Not picking up blitzes well

Not going through all his progressions 

Not seeing open receivers at times 

Still needs work on his pre-snap adjustments (harsh)

 

Things that are pleasing to see that he's improved on (since college) are his mechanics and accuracy. 

 

As ever time will tell, and there's not a alternative currently that is viable IMO. This might change by the end of the season. One thing though to consider is we might be able to get a developmental player to sit behind him next year. It's worked out in a few cases recently. 

The "developmental player" is already on the roster.  <ducks>

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