Jacoby Brissett Impressions (Perma Merge)

[SteelCityColt]

1 minute ago, Stephen said:

Frank Reich  didn't  set up the hot roads. In that situation  parris  Campbell  should  have been utilized.  I think Brissett  will get better. If we get some rookie qb he will probably throw alot of ints and instead of close games we may have blowouts

Please expand on what you mean by hot “roads”? Do you mean no quick hitters in case of a blitz? 
 

Because I doubt that’s true, I’d challenge you to go find plays where there wasn’t a quick short option (barring obvious & long plays).

 

If there wasn’t, it’s also partly on the QB to diagnose pre snap and audible in/out. 

Just now, Dingus McGirt said:

The "developmental player" is already on the roster.  <ducks>

I’m not sure Hoyer has all that much upside.....

 

....

 

....

 

 

I’ll get my coat.

[Nickster]

14 minutes ago, Stephen said:

Frank Reich  didn't  set up the hot roads. In that situation  parris  Campbell  should  have been utilized.  I think Brissett  will get better. If we get some rookie qb he will probably throw alot of ints and instead of close games we may have blowouts

 

Not sure.   There are built in hot reads.  That would be weird if true.

 

I predict tons of blitzing in the near future.

 

One thing Reich didn't do was call screens.  

 

I've said in the heart of hearts of the FO, they see  JB can only process so much so fast, and won't be the answer long term.  They set up his contract that way. 

 

I doubt the FO is planning on him being the future.

[Stephen]

1 minute ago, SteelCityColt said:

Please expand on what you mean by hot “roads”? Do you mean no quick hitters in case of a blitz? 
 

Because I doubt that’s true, I’d challenge you to go find plays where there wasn’t a quick short option (barring obvious & long plays).

 

If there wasn’t, it’s also partly on the QB to diagnose pre snap and audible in/out. 

Meant hot reads. If there are hot reads they must not be getting  open fast enough.  All I know is when the pressure  comes fast it seems like noone is there to make the quick catch.

[Stephen]

2 minutes ago, Nickster said:

 

Not sure.   There aren't built in hot reads.  That would be weird if true.

 

I predict tons of blitzing in the near future.

 

One thing Reich didn't do was call screens.  

 

I've said in the heart of hearts of the FO, they see  JB can only process so much so fast, and won't be the answer long term.  They set up his contract that way. 

 

I doubt the FO is planning on him being the future.

Idk, but if you replace a guy like Brissett with one like mayfield  we could be worse  off. Ideally  if you are going  to replace  Brissett.  You'd want a qb that sees the field like Luck, is smart enough  to protect the football  if it's  not there. I don't  want some guy that throws 40 tds and 24 ints. Give me the 36 td 9 int guy

[Colts_Fan12]

the team is also winning because the AFC is extremely weak this year I'm not gonna sit here and sugarcoat it. teams people thought would be good are pretty bad and no one had stepped up to take their place either its basically just the Pats Ravens Chiefs and us. the Ravens imo arent that's great either tho and the chiefs without Pat are Terrible obviously we will be a top AFC team lol

[Stephen]

1 minute ago, Colts_Fan12 said:

the team is also winning because the AFC is extremely weak this year I'm not gonna sit here and sugarcoat it. teams people thought would be good are pretty bad and no one had stepped up to take their place either its basically just the Pats Ravens Chiefs and us. the Ravens imo arent that's great either tho and the chiefs without Pat are Terrible obviously we will be a top AFC team lol

This is even more reason  to make a trade and capitalize on the weak afc

[Colts_Fan12]

1 minute ago, Stephen said:

This is even more reason  to make a trade and capitalize on the weak afc

not really cause the reality is we will eventually play the Pats or someone from the NFC and get destroyed 

[Valpo2004]

Here is a question do you think that if we stuck with Brissett we could keep him at the price we are paying him now?  

 

Right now he's averaging out to 15M per season.  That is one of the lowest figures of any starting QB not on a rookie contract.  

 

Overthecap lists it higher because it's counting all the pay from the new contract as being in one year for some reason.  I guess it's because we had him on contract for last season anyways? 

 

But considering that 6 different QB's right now are earning more than 30M per year with the top one at 35.  And I honestly don't think it will take long for that number to hit 40M.  (Pat Mahomes in a couple years?)

 

If Jacoby will keep playing at a figure that is roughly 50% of the top QB, I would say it makes sense.  

[Valpo2004]

1 hour ago, Mr.Debonair said:

Agreed man. For some reason ppl keep forgetting this or downplaying it

 

I agree but this was also an issue when Luck was the QB last year and we had a top 5 offense anyways.  

 

To be fair one can argue that Brissett is obviously not Luck and is going to need more help than Luck.  

[Nickster]

14 minutes ago, Valpo2004 said:

Here is a question do you think that if we stuck with Brissett we could keep him at the price we are paying him now?  

 

Right now he's averaging out to 15M per season.  That is one of the lowest figures of any starting QB not on a rookie contract.  

 

Overthecap lists it higher because it's counting all the pay from the new contract as being in one year for some reason.  I guess it's because we had him on contract for last season anyways? 

 

But considering that 6 different QB's right now are earning more than 30M per year with the top one at 35.  And I honestly don't think it will take long for that number to hit 40M.  (Pat Mahomes in a couple years?)

 

If Jacoby will keep playing at a figure that is roughly 50% of the top QB, I would say it makes sense.  

 

Yes.  Probably.  We could allocate 20 mill to other assets.  It's one of the secrets of the Pats.  Brady takes less and they have more.

 

But at starters money, I can't imagine that this will be good enough and even if we drop him and suck, then we can start the rebuild earlier.  

 

Its just that I don't think it will be that hard to replace him with someone that can do as much in the limited role JB is given.

[stitches]

15 minutes ago, Valpo2004 said:

Here is a question do you think that if we stuck with Brissett we could keep him at the price we are paying him now?  

 

Right now he's averaging out to 15M per season.  That is one of the lowest figures of any starting QB not on a rookie contract.  

 

Overthecap lists it higher because it's counting all the pay from the new contract as being in one year for some reason.  I guess it's because we had him on contract for last season anyways? 

 

But considering that 6 different QB's right now are earning more than 30M per year with the top one at 35.  And I honestly don't think it will take long for that number to hit 40M.  (Pat Mahomes in a couple years?)

 

If Jacoby will keep playing at a figure that is roughly 50% of the top QB, I would say it makes sense.  

 

I doubt it. He got this contract while only having played in 1 unspectacular season and we gave it to him after our franchise QB retired 2 weeks before the start of the season. I think we needed to give him this contract to settle him in as the starter and to secure a stable QB for the next couple of seasons. If he plays well enough to continue being our starter I am not sure he will take that type of contract. There aren't young QBs that you sign as franchise QB who make this type of discount to the team. If the Foles and Cousins of the world could get 25-30M per year, I see no way Brissett sticking here as a franchise QB for 15M. If he cannot get much more than that on the open market, what would that tell you? The ~15M mark is reserved for players like Osweiler, Josh McCown, Mike Glennon. If he cannot get more than that he's probably not very good. 

[Valpo2004]

14 minutes ago, Nickster said:

 

Yes.  Probably.  We could allocate 20 mill to other assets.  It's one of the secrets of the Pats.  Brady takes less and they have more.

 

But at starters money, I can't imagine that this will be good enough and even if we drop him and suck, then we can start the rebuild earlier.  

 

Its just that I don't think it will be that hard to replace him with someone that can do as much in the limited role JB is given.

 

I'm also curious how much of his limitations are fixable with coaching and experience.  

 

The thing that I find most worrisome about Brissett is that deep throws to Hilton (Which is something that teams always worried about with Luck) are almost non existent.  I like the idea of a mostly short passing game for the most part, but occasionally you have to test them deep and get chunk yardage.  

 

You have to do it from a strategy standpoint to keep their safeties back and you have to do it from a realistic scoring standpoint because running a lot of plays introduces more opportunity for someone to make a drive killing mistake.  

 

But outside of that I could see him as being someone who we would have to Trent Dilpher to a SB.   

[ColtV]

My biggest concern is that a mediocre QB can be just as detrimental to a team's long term success as a bad QB. There is a real possibility that once the season is over, we may still be asking the same questions.

 

Regardless of how this season ends, I still think getting a QB in the first four rounds next year is paramount. Shelling out multi million contracts for a back-up QB won't be sustainable oonce younger players start getting their extensions. Whether that qb is selected in the 1st round or the 4th will be dictated by Jacoby's play these last 9 games

[Valpo2004]

9 minutes ago, stitches said:

 

I doubt it. He got this contract while only having played in 1 unspectacular season and we gave it to him after our franchise QB retired 2 weeks before the start of the season. I think we needed to give him this contract to settle him in as the starter and to secure a stable QB for the next couple of seasons. If he plays well enough to continue being our starter I am not sure he will take that type of contract. There aren't young QBs that you sign as franchise QB who make this type of discount to the team. If the Foles and Cousins of the world could get 25-30M per year, I see no way Brissett sticking here as a franchise QB for 15M. If he cannot get much more than that on the open market, what would that tell you? The ~15M mark is reserved for players like Osweiler, Josh McCown, Mike Glennon. If he cannot get more than that he's probably not very good. 

 

Meh but Foles and Cousins have posted some pretty big games often.  Shoot Foles beat Brady in a shootout in the SB.  

 

To be fair Brissett is top 10 in TD% Int % and passer rating.  

 

On the other hand yards per attempt he's 22.  

[shasta519]

2 hours ago, csmopar said:

I didn't say they were bad, just said they were average. I think they aren't as tough as the Texans or Broncos. 

 

They really aren't. HOU's defense is actually average...and the pass defense is below average..

 

But PIT is on par with DEN...and it's a home game for them. PIT's season stats are skewed by their first two games against NE and SEA.

 

After those two games, they traded for Minkah and have increased their usage of zone defense every week...and have been one of the best pass defenses in the NFL...#1 in TOs forced and #7 in pts allowed/drive and yards allowed/drive. 

[stitches]

6 minutes ago, Valpo2004 said:

 

Meh but Foles and Cousins have posted some pretty big games often.  Shoot Foles beat Brady in a shootout in the SB.  

 

To be fair Brissett is top 10 in TD% Int % and passer rating.  

 

On the other hand yards per attempt he's 22.  

The point is - if he's good enough to be our long-term franchise QB I doubt he settles for half the money other young franchise QBs make. And if all he can get is a placeholder QB type of money IMO we are better served looking for a franchise QB in the draft who will be even cheaper. 

[Myles]

40 minutes ago, Nickster said:

 

Yes.  Probably.  We could allocate 20 mill to other assets.  It's one of the secrets of the Pats.  Brady takes less and they have more.

 

But at starters money, I can't imagine that this will be good enough and even if we drop him and suck, then we can start the rebuild earlier.  

 

Its just that I don't think it will be that hard to replace him with someone that can do as much in the limited role JB is given.

I disagree.  Getting a top 12-14 QB in the league is not easy to do.   

I do think they need to draft a QB in round 3 or 4.   It's not evident yet that Brissett will/should be the guy after next year.  

[shasta519]

13 minutes ago, ColtV said:

My biggest concern is that a mediocre QB can be just as detrimental to a team's long term success as a bad QB. There is a real possibility that once the season is over, we may still be asking the same questions.

 

Regardless of how this season ends, I still think getting a QB in the first four rounds next year is paramount. Shelling out multi million contracts for a back-up QB won't be sustainable oonce younger players start getting their extensions. Whether that qb is selected in the 1st round or the 4th will be dictated by Jacoby's play these last 9 games

 

Agree...especially one that will likely cost at least $25M/year. JB's not cheap anymore. If he was on a rookie deal for three more years...the conversation changes. But to keep him long-term now...it's going to require a contract a tier below what the top guys are getting. It's a very questionable use of resources. 

 

If the roster is strong and schemes are strong enough...the Colts are better off drafting a young/cheaper QB (with upside) to develop and plug into the system in a couple of years. It will become especially important as they try to keep together a good amount of the core.

[Nickster]

2 minutes ago, Myles said:

I disagree.  Getting a top 12-14 QB in the league is not easy to do.   

I do think they need to draft a QB in round 3 or 4.   It's not evident yet that Brissett will/should be the guy after next year.  

 

IMO he's around 20.  

[Myles]

1 minute ago, stitches said:

The point is - if he's good enough to be our long-term franchise QB I doubt he settles for half the money other young franchise QBs make. And if all he can get is a placeholder QB type of money IMO we are better served looking for a franchise QB in the draft who will be even cheaper. 

Sure puts us in a tough spot.   Ballard has this team in the later steps of the rebuild.   Brissett has shown to be good enough to win games so it would be tough to just start over with a rookie QB.  Even good rookie QB's rarely put up numbers as good as Brissett.  

[Myles]

1 minute ago, Nickster said:

 

IMO he's around 20.  

I'd put him around 12 which is lower than his combined stats would put him.

[Nickster]

3 minutes ago, Myles said:

I'd put him around 12 which is lower than his combined stats would put him.

What stats?  Theres lots of stats.

[shasta519]

59 minutes ago, Valpo2004 said:

Here is a question do you think that if we stuck with Brissett we could keep him at the price we are paying him now?  

 

Right now he's averaging out to 15M per season.  That is one of the lowest figures of any starting QB not on a rookie contract.  

 

Overthecap lists it higher because it's counting all the pay from the new contract as being in one year for some reason.  I guess it's because we had him on contract for last season anyways? 

 

But considering that 6 different QB's right now are earning more than 30M per year with the top one at 35.  And I honestly don't think it will take long for that number to hit 40M.  (Pat Mahomes in a couple years?)

 

If Jacoby will keep playing at a figure that is roughly 50% of the top QB, I would say it makes sense.  

 

It's only $15M/year because he was already under contract for this year and they put a chunk of that money into this season. He basically got the franchise tag. So going forward, a contract in that area will be the expectation...which the Colts set.

[Colts_Fan12]

18 minutes ago, Valpo2004 said:

 

Meh but Foles and Cousins have posted some pretty big games often.  Shoot Foles beat Brady in a shootout in the SB.  

 

To be fair Brissett is top 10 in TD% Int % and passer rating.  

 

On the other hand yards per attempt he's 22.  

both are definitely better than JB 

[Colts_Fan12]

10 minutes ago, Nickster said:

 

IMO he's around 20.  

the only reason he is ranked so high is his low INTs but you're gonna have a low number of INTs if you throw the ball 5 yards a pass 

[Colts_Fan12]

11 minutes ago, Myles said:

Sure puts us in a tough spot.   Ballard has this team in the later steps of the rebuild.   Brissett has shown to be good enough to win games so it would be tough to just start over with a rookie QB.  Even good rookie QB's rarely put up numbers as good as Brissett.  

Huh? good rookie QBs in a good situation almost always put up good numbers and most of the time better than JB

[shasta519]

8 minutes ago, Myles said:

Sure puts us in a tough spot.   Ballard has this team in the later steps of the rebuild.   Brissett has shown to be good enough to win games so it would be tough to just start over with a rookie QB.  Even good rookie QB's rarely put up numbers as good as Brissett.  

 

That's why you draft the rookie this year and develop him for a year while JB is still under contract next year. 

 

This is similar to what KC did. Smith was an above average QB for years, but they wanted more at QB. And those plans to replace Smith actually started when Ballard was still there.

 

I actually think an Alex Smith type is the ceiling for JB...which isn't a bad thing...but likely not enough to win Super Bowls. 

[stitches]

13 minutes ago, Myles said:

Sure puts us in a tough spot.   Ballard has this team in the later steps of the rebuild.   Brissett has shown to be good enough to win games so it would be tough to just start over with a rookie QB.  Even good rookie QB's rarely put up numbers as good as Brissett.  

yeah, it's not ideal... it's really a trash situation having your franchise QB retire all of a sudden. Not much you can do about it. I think we've bounced back well and Jacoby has manned up the spot admirably for what he is and what he had to deal with... but that doesn't mean we have to settle for this situation going forward if we can improve it. 

 

IMO the best situations you can be in in regards to QBs in this league are the following:

 

Tier 1

1. Franchise type of QB play on rookie contract or small contract(having hard time finding example of this last one but lets assume it's possible you can get that)

2. Franchise type of QB play on big contract

 

Tier 2

3. Solid caretaker/game manager type of QB on rookie/small contract

 

Tier 3

4. Solid caretaker/game manager type of QB on big contract

 

Tier 4

5. Bad QB on any contract

 

Ideally we should be aiming at Tier 1, but you can probably build a contender with 2, the problem being that the rookie/small contract soon becomes big contract. This is what we practically are facing now - we would be moving from tier 2 to tier 3 if we give Brissett big long-term contract, unless he takes a big step forward with his game. 

[Myles]

34 minutes ago, shastamasta said:

 

That's why you draft the rookie this year and develop him for a year while JB is still under contract next year. 

 

This is similar to what KC did. Smith was an above average QB for years, but they wanted more at QB. And those plans to replace Smith actually started when Ballard was still there.

 

I actually think an Alex Smith type is the ceiling for JB...which isn't a bad thing...but likely not enough to win Super Bowls. 

I agree with this.   Only I wouldn't want them to move up in the first to take the QB.   

[stitches]

38 minutes ago, shastamasta said:

 

That's why you draft the rookie this year and develop him for a year while JB is still under contract next year. 

 

This is similar to what KC did. Smith was an above average QB for years, but they wanted more at QB. And those plans to replace Smith actually started when Ballard was still there.

 

I actually think an Alex Smith type is the ceiling for JB...which isn't a bad thing...but likely not enough to win Super Bowls. 

Yep, these are my thoughts too. Unless JB takes a significant step forward for the rest of the season, if we like a QB in the draft, we should take him and nurture him in our system without playing for a year like KC did with Mahomes. 

[SteelCityColt]

5 minutes ago, Myles said:

I agree with this.   Only I wouldn't want them to move up in the first to take the QB.   

 

While this upcoming class doesn't seem strong in terms of can't miss prospect, of course allowing for much to change between now and April, it does seem like some might fall into the 2nd/3rd who could be interesting. 

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

23 minutes ago, SteelCityColt said:

 

While this upcoming class doesn't seem strong in terms of can't miss prospect, of course allowing for much to change between now and April, it does seem like some might fall into the 2nd/3rd who could be interesting. 

I am not taking Qb in the second or third round. Unless it is going to be a permanent backup to JB.

[Myles]

12 minutes ago, Chloe6124 said:

I am not taking Qb in the second or third round. Unless it is going to be a permanent backup to JB.

Why not?   If the right guy is there, snatch him up.   Seems like it is a crap shoot no matter what round he is taken in.  

[SteelCityColt]

17 minutes ago, Chloe6124 said:

I am not taking Qb in the second or third round. Unless it is going to be a permanent backup to JB.

You’d not draft a guy that high to be a definite backup.. maybe to develop/flash/trade if they can’t dislodge your starter. 
 

So for arguments sake, you grade a guy as a 1st rounder, he’s there in the 3rd, you’re not interested in the slightest? 

[shasta519]

21 minutes ago, SteelCityColt said:

 

While this upcoming class doesn't seem strong in terms of can't miss prospect, of course allowing for much to change between now and April, it does seem like some might fall into the 2nd/3rd who could be interesting. 

 

I think it's a great draft for this type of scenario. In fact, I actually wouldn't mind seeing a few of those early picks used on offense.  

[stitches]

57 minutes ago, SteelCityColt said:

 

While this upcoming class doesn't seem strong in terms of can't miss prospect, of course allowing for much to change between now and April, it does seem like some might fall into the 2nd/3rd who could be interesting. 

The problem is that it seems like we are entering a new cycle of franchise QB acquisition in the league. There are a TON of teams that will be looking for their new QB in the next draft and IMO it's very likely most of the good QBs get pushed up in the 1st round as a result. Just think about it... here are teams that are very likely going to be looking at the QBs in the draft:

-Dolphins - 100%

-Raiders?

-Broncos?

-Chargers?

-Steelers

-Bengals - 100%

-Titans - 100%

-Bears?

-Saints?

-Panthers?

-Buccaneers 100%

 

This is like almost a dozen teams that might be looking at the draft for their future franchise QB. About 1/3d of them IMO will almost certainly grab one and the rest are a mix of teams with unsettled QBs, old franchise QBs that might be on their way out, etc.... 

IMO there is a real chance we get like... 6 QBs taken in R1 if all of the underclassmen declare. 

 

[stitches]

And BTW IMO, If you love a QB in the draft, you don't fool around and try to sneak him into the second round. You draft him into the first or even trade up to secure him if you think someone ahead of you might take him. The QB is pretty much the only position that there really isn't a price too high to pay for a franchise QB. If you think you can turn a player into a high end franchise QB, you go get him. Be pro-active rather than having to settle... 

[shasta519]

3 minutes ago, stitches said:

The problem is that it seems like we are entering a new cycle of franchise QB acquisition in the league. There are a TON of teams that will be looking for their new QB in the next draft and IMO it's very likely most of the good QBs get pushed up in the 1st round as a result. Just think about it... here are teams that are very likely going to be looking at the QBs in the draft:

-Dolphins - 100%

-Raiders?

-Broncos?

-Chargers?

-Steelers

-Bengals - 100%

-Titans - 100%

-Bears?

-Saints?

-Panthers?

-Buccaneers 100%

 

This is like almost a dozen teams that might be looking at the draft for their future franchise QB. About 1/3d of them IMO will almost certainly grab one and the rest are a mix of teams with unsettled QBs, old franchise QBs that might be on their way out, etc.... 

IMO there is a real chance we get like... 6 QBs taken in R1 if all of the underclassmen declare. 

 

Yeah...there will be several QBs taken early. Honestly, if one they really like falls out of round 1, I have no issue with using that WAS pick on a QB. The Colts definitely have this luxury and it's the prudent move.

 

Colts cap situation looks real nice right now...but after next season...you are going to have Leonard, Nelson, Smith, Hooker, etc...all ready for their paydays (maybe Kelly as well...if he doesn't already have his deal)). Saving at least $20M on QB goes a long ways in that scenario. 

 

 

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

3 minutes ago, stitches said:

And BTW IMO, If you love a QB in the draft, you don't fool around and try to sneak him into the second round. You draft him into the first or even trade up to secure him if you think someone ahead of you might take him. The QB is pretty much the only position that there really isn't a price too high to pay for a franchise QB. If you think you can turn a player into a high end franchise QB, you go get him. Be pro-active rather than having to settle... 

You also don’t take a QB just to take one. We aren’t in the position where we need to just take any QB.  We are in no hurry to have to draft a QB.

[shasta519]

7 minutes ago, stitches said:

And BTW IMO, If you love a QB in the draft, you don't fool around and try to sneak him into the second round. You draft him into the first or even trade up to secure him if you think someone ahead of you might take him. The QB is pretty much the only position that there really isn't a price too high to pay for a franchise QB. If you think you can turn a player into a high end franchise QB, you go get him. Be pro-active rather than having to settle... 

 

Yep...I am fine with pulling the trigger in the 1st round...if it's their guy. Late 1st round picks are sort of a crap shoot anyways. Missing on a late 1st round prospect isn't any different than missing on another position...and the reward is so much higher.