Ebron - Invisible?

[TrueBlue4ever]

Here is my dilemma, in reviewing the snap counts for the year so far, our Pro-Bowl tight end from a year ago has roughly 185 less snaps than Jack Doyle. Ok, I can understand that I guess because Jack is steady and was a Pro- Bowler 2 years ago. Now the best part, Mr. Ebron has actually played less snaps then Dion Cain!!

I would love to know how many he got this past Sunday, because the trend appears to be less and less. 

His drops have cost him playing time for sure, my question is this, Is it all performance related ?? 

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

When Doyle was healthy last year he got very few snaps. He wouldn’t of had the year he had if Doyle had stayed healthy. Now saying that I think Reich has got to use him more. He is one of your best playmakers. You have to give him more then 22 snaps a game.

[jameszeigler834]

7 minutes ago, TrueBlue4ever said:

Here is my dilemma, in reviewing the snap counts for the year so far, our Pro-Bowl tight end from a year ago has roughly 185 less snaps than Jack Doyle. Ok, I can understand that I guess because Jack is steady and was a Pro- Bowler 2 years ago. Now the best part, Mr. Ebron has actually played less snaps then Dion Cain!!

I would love to know how many he got this past Sunday, because the trend appears to be less and less. 

His drops have cost him playing time for sure, my question is this, Is it all performance related ?? 

Probably he stinks.

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

He had 24 snaps Sunday. Which is exactly two more then the week before I think. He has been getting around 22 all year.

[lollygagger8]

Maybe they are resting his hands lol 

[Fisticuffs111]

I know it means basically nothing but thought it was interestng; saw that Ebron liked a friend's (his college QB) tweet about the Panthers going after Ebron in the summer. 

I imagine he's probably wishing he was on the field more. Not that it seems to be effecting his presence in the locker room or anything.

 

[colt18]

It's probably due to the reliance on the run game. Doyle is a better blocker, better at catching but significantly worse at RAC. Every single time he catches a ball you know he's going to get cut down. Ebron has all the moves but inconsistent hands. It makes sense, even tho I wish Ebron would get more targets.

[pgt_rob]

15 minutes ago, colt18 said:

It's probably due to the reliance on the run game. Doyle is a better blocker, better at catching but significantly worse at RAC. Every single time he catches a ball you know he's going to get cut down. Ebron has all the moves but inconsistent hands. It makes sense, even tho I wish Ebron would get more targets.

 

Probably this^. Andrew Luck passed the ball around and forced a lot to Ebron even if he was dropping them. I think Brissett is playing the pass from our run game this means Ebron is on the field less.

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

One of things is Luck loves TE. Remember this offense didn’t have to be changed much but there would be things that would be tweaked for JB. I hope he can start to get him more involved but that also means getting him on the field more. He is such a great athlete that we are wasting him by not playing him more then 22 snaps. We know Reich likes to target and use TE a lot so hopefully it will improve the second half of the season.

[PrincetonTiger]

29 minutes ago, colt18 said:

It's probably due to the reliance on the run game. Doyle is a better blocker, better at catching but significantly worse at RAC. Every single time he catches a ball you know he's going to get cut down. Ebron has all the moves but inconsistent hands. It makes sense, even tho I wish Ebron would get more targets.

It also hurts him at times that he is not an true inline TE

[Four2itus]

Well, he won't cost as much if he was to get a new contract. He's up at season's end...right?

[cjwhiskers]

I think you are seeing his snaps decreased as a product of Jacoby at QB and the run heavy scheme lends itself more to having Jack in there because he is definitely the better blocker.

 

I think Ebron's bread and butter are those intermediate 10-15 yard routes that he transforms into more. This happens to be an area I think Jacoby has struggled in significantly. Even when he's had guys wide open he's thrown some questionable balls (think of that completion to JD in Denver game where Jack had to essentially lay out for it). Often his throws are under 10 yards with the occasional bomb. This hurts players like Ebron.

 

IMO you could immediately see a difference from a sheer anticipating the throw standpoint as soon as Hoyer stepped in. That anticipation is incredibly important in those intermediate routes. I think you'll see MUCH more involvement from the TE's in that intermediate zone this week if Hoyer starts. 

[TrueBlue4ever]

55 minutes ago, Chloe6124 said:

One of things is Luck loves TE. Remember this offense didn’t have to be changed much but there would be things that would be tweaked for JB. I hope he can start to get him more involved but that also means getting him on the field more. He is such a great athlete that we are wasting him by not playing him more then 22 snaps. We know Reich likes to target and use TE a lot so hopefully it will improve the second half of the season.

So he is playing 30% of the offensive snaps, he was targeted twice in the last game. No T.Y., Cain has played more snaps, I know at the beginning of the year, he wanted to improve his blocking, that appears to not have happened. 

There’s half of a regular season left, he certainly has enough time to get out of the doghouse and play up to his capabilities. He has been a disappointment this year so far in my opinion.

[Mitch Connors]

42 minutes ago, Four2itus said:

Well, he won't cost as much if he was to get a new contract. He's up at season's end...right?

 

That's a great thought. If the season ended today would the Colts resign him if it cost what they're paying him now ($6.5 per year which puts him at #12 for TE salary)? 

 

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

3 minutes ago, TrueBlue4ever said:

So he is playing 30% of the offensive snaps, he was targeted twice in the last game. No T.Y., Cain has played more snaps, I know at the beginning of the year, he wanted to improve his blocking, that appears to not have happened. 

There’s half of a regular season left, he certainly has enough time to get out of the doghouse and play up to his capabilities. He has been a disappointment this year so far in my opinion.

Like I said above last year when Doyle was healthy  he played about the same amount of snaps as this year. It wasn’t until Doyle got injured he got more snaps.  We need to use him more even with Doyle healthy.

[Myles]

18 catches for 248 yards after 8 games.  Not impressive.  Also a 58% catch rate.  

[ManningGM]

Don't really care if we lose him this offseason tbh. Dude is unreliable. Please go chase more money. 

 

Luck had two Pro Bowl spots last season. 

[EastStreet]

15 minutes ago, Myles said:

18 catches for 248 yards after 8 games.  Not impressive.  Also a 58% catch rate.  

Everyone's yards are down this year.

 

His snap count is similar to when Doyle and Ebron were both healthy last year.

 

Here's a good place to look at snap counts, by game, for the entire year. Easy toggle to 2018.

https://www.lineups.com/nfl/snap-counts/indianapolis-colts-snap-counts

[Bravo]

Ebron is more of a Vertical threat TE and likes to spread around the field. Jacoby Brissett is very much a dink and dunk passer and prefers not to take chances on deeper throws. Also the offense has been pretty run formation heavy so that limits his snaps.

[TrueBlue4ever]

16 minutes ago, Myles said:

18 catches for 248 yards after 8 games.  Not impressive.  Also a 58% catch rate.  

58%!!!! Unacceptable. Current pace 40 catches, 500 yards. Goodbye!! 

2nd round Tight end this upcoming draft, Kelce prototype! 

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

21 minutes ago, Myles said:

18 catches for 248 yards after 8 games.  Not impressive.  Also a 58% catch rate.  

I thnk he had a little over 700 yards last year. If he can get to 600 yards and say 8 TD I think he can salvage the season and turn it into a good one. I think he should be able to get 5 more TD and get up to 600. He was never going to have as many as last year with Doyle back and healthy. That was just a crazy year last year.

[EastStreet]

51 minutes ago, cjrulli said:

I think you are seeing his snaps decreased as a product of Jacoby at QB and the run heavy scheme lends itself more to having Jack in there because he is definitely the better blocker.

 

I think Ebron's bread and butter are those intermediate 10-15 yard routes that he transforms into more. This happens to be an area I think Jacoby has struggled in significantly. Even when he's had guys wide open he's thrown some questionable balls (think of that completion to JD in Denver game where Jack had to essentially lay out for it). Often his throws are under 10 yards with the occasional bomb. This hurts players like Ebron.

 

IMO you could immediately see a difference from a sheer anticipating the throw standpoint as soon as Hoyer stepped in. That anticipation is incredibly important in those intermediate routes. I think you'll see MUCH more involvement from the TE's in that intermediate zone this week if Hoyer starts. 

His snap count is pretty similar to when both TEs were healthy, so not really a change. His yards/game are down because of that, and because simply JB doesn't throw it as much, or as deep. IIRC, all WRs and TEs productivity numbers are down per game except Pascal. 

[EastStreet]

2 minutes ago, Chloe6124 said:

I thnk he had a little over 700 yards last year. If he can get to 600 yards and say 8 TD I think he can salvage the season and turn it into a good one. I think he should be able to get 5 more TD. He was never going to have as many as last year with Doyle back and healthy. That was just a crazy year last year.

Everyone needs to lower their expectations in terms of yards/game and yards/catch for our top targets. TY, Doyle, Hines, and Ebron are all down in yards/game. It's a product of the QB and conservative scheme. 

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

7 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

Everyone needs to lower their expectations in terms of yards/game and yards/catch for our top targets. TY, Doyle, Hines, and Ebron are all down in yards/game. It's a product of the QB and conservative scheme. 

I think Ebron can get close to 600. I don’t think that is having to high expectations. Double what he has now he would be at about 500. He is bound to have a few more big games. I also don’t think 4 to 5 more TD is to high of expectations. Last year was abnormal. It was a product of Luck and Doyle bring out.

[EastStreet]

2 minutes ago, Chloe6124 said:

I think Ebron can get close to 600. I don’t think that is having to high expectations. Double what he has now he would be at about 500. He is bound to have a few more big games. I also don’t think 4 to 5 more TD is to high of expectations. Last year was abnormal. It was a product of Luck and Doyle bring out.

If Funch comes back strong, you might even see less Ebron. Funch will likely play a lot of slot, which is basically TE alignment with TE routes... Ebron is more of a stretch or detached TE who is more of a vertical threat. JB just doesn't throw a lot of vertical balls.

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

2 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

If Funch comes back strong, you might even see less Ebron. Funch will likely play a lot of slot, which is basically TE alignment with TE routes... Ebron is more of a stretch or detached TE who is more of a vertical threat. JB just doesn't throw a lot of vertical balls.

You could be right when DF comes back. We will just have to see. This season has had weird things happen and has been very unpredictable so I don’t rule anything out.  Strange things have happened this year.

[EastStreet]

2 minutes ago, Chloe6124 said:

You could be right when DF comes back. We will just have to see. This season has had weird things happen and has been very unpredictable so I don’t rule anything out.  Strange things have happened this year.

Anything can happen, but outside of the redzone, Ebron and Brissett are just not very complimentary for one another. JB is better served with a guy like Doyle, while Luck and Hoyer type QBs would make Ebron look better.

[Valpo2004]

2 hours ago, Chloe6124 said:

One of things is Luck loves TE. Remember this offense didn’t have to be changed much but there would be things that would be tweaked for JB. I hope he can start to get him more involved but that also means getting him on the field more. He is such a great athlete that we are wasting him by not playing him more then 22 snaps. We know Reich likes to target and use TE a lot so hopefully it will improve the second half of the season.

 

1 hour ago, cjrulli said:

I think you are seeing his snaps decreased as a product of Jacoby at QB and the run heavy scheme lends itself more to having Jack in there because he is definitely the better blocker.

 

I think Ebron's bread and butter are those intermediate 10-15 yard routes that he transforms into more. This happens to be an area I think Jacoby has struggled in significantly. Even when he's had guys wide open he's thrown some questionable balls (think of that completion to JD in Denver game where Jack had to essentially lay out for it). Often his throws are under 10 yards with the occasional bomb. This hurts players like Ebron.

 

IMO you could immediately see a difference from a sheer anticipating the throw standpoint as soon as Hoyer stepped in. That anticipation is incredibly important in those intermediate routes. I think you'll see MUCH more involvement from the TE's in that intermediate zone this week if Hoyer starts. 

 

These are the important things.  Ebron was brought in for a Luck based offense.  He was brought in for a pass heavy Luck based offense.  

 

Granted the whole playbook hasn't been changed since Luck has gone but the tendencies are most certainly changed.  We run the ball more, that doesn't bode well for Ebron.  

[TrueBlue4ever]

I love the debate, at the end of the day 58% catch rate is disappointing. It’s next man up, he has to be more involved and Catch the ball!! 

It would be interesting to know if 58% ranks at the bottom of the league for Tight ends who have at least 40 targets??

[shasta519]

Well...one thing would be Doyle's health. He missed a lot of games last year. And for better or worse...he is the TE1 in this system because he can block and has sure hands...and that means less chances for Ebron.

 

But I think the other big part is no Luck and playcalling.  Reich was able to scheme Ebron wide open and Luck would find him through the progressions...those TE corner routes were absolutely deadly with Luck's touch and accuracy. So take away Luck and a year of film...and you have some combination of teams paying more attention to Ebron and JB not finding him like Luck did.

 

Ultimately, like some warned before the season, regression for Ebron was a likely outcome...especially on TDs.

 

Unfortunately his drops returned again this year...and this area hasn't improved. He's a good player...he's just not a great player that you build around. And he's probably not one the Colts should commit to after this season unless he tests FA and Ballard can get him back on a good deal. Ebron is a good example of why you have to be careful about extending guys after a year. There were people that wanted to give him a monster extension before this season started.

 

Personally, I want TE1 type that can do more than Doyle. Those are typically in the draft. Need that time machine to go back and make Ballard draft Kittle instead of Banner or Stewart.

[Coffeedrinker]

This isn't strictly Ebron related but my guess is we are going to start seeing a different offense from the Colts than we have seen thus far.

 

I think Reich likes to dictate the metrics teams use when game planning for the Colts and now he is going to start using those metrics to the team's advantage.

 

For those that don't know, most NFL teams develop their metrics (what we called tendencies in the old days) from the last 5 games played.  Typically when they review film they look at the last 2 or 3 games.  If you know what metrics are established then you can go against those metrics.  And as soon as you start doing that, you mess up the metrics for the next couple of games.

 

We saw the Colts do this, more so on the defensive side of the ball, last year and to a lesser extent with the back 4 coverages this year, they started off playing primarily zone, then they went to playing primarily man, now we will start seeing a combination of both.  Same with the offense.  The Colts have established themselves as more run oriented but I think we will start to see them open up the offense, start passing more on 1st down, perhaps running a bit more on 3rd and 5 or 6. etc.

 

I could be wrong, I may be misreading the situation.

[coltsfan_canada]

3 hours ago, Chloe6124 said:

One of things is Luck loves TE. Remember this offense didn’t have to be changed much but there would be things that would be tweaked for JB. I hope he can start to get him more involved but that also means getting him on the field more. He is such a great athlete that we are wasting him by not playing him more then 22 snaps. We know Reich likes to target and use TE a lot so hopefully it will improve the second half of the season.

Lol no doubt he made Coby Fleener & Dwayne Allen look like HOF

 

[TrueBlue4ever]

Frank and Nick!

 

Put Ebron on the field more!!

Is he soft? Yes

Does he run great routes? No

Does he block well? No

Does he catch the ball? Ummm, Yes, he has a top 5 play through mid season. 58% catch rate

Does he draw double teams and cause nightmarish matchups? Yes

Does he clown around to much during practice? IDK 

Is he going to be here next year? No

With all that said, we need Eric Ebron to step up the rest of the year! You have a lot of fans Eric that believe in you. 

 

[Defjamz26]

This one is on Jacoby. As great as he’s been he’s not Andrew Luck. The regression of Ebron is mostly due to the talent and style of the QB. It’s not just Ebron, but the TEs in general aren’t getting as much production. Brissett doesn’t utilize them as much. Cox has disappeared completely and Doyle did to until this past game. Guys are mostly run blockers now and seeing as how he’s not a run blocker, it’s not hard to see why he’s getting 22 snaps.

[Coffeedrinker]

11 hours ago, Defjamz26 said:

This one is on Jacoby. As great as he’s been he’s not Andrew Luck. The regression of Ebron is mostly due to the talent and style of the QB. It’s not just Ebron, but the TEs in general aren’t getting as much production. Brissett doesn’t utilize them as much. Cox has disappeared completely and Doyle did to until this past game. Guys are mostly run blockers now and seeing as how he’s not a run blocker, it’s not hard to see why he’s getting 22 snaps.

Which is really odd because in 2017 Doyle had one fewer target and 23 more receptions than Hilton.  As soon as Luck retired I added Doyle to my fantasy team because of that connection.

[John Waylon]

Brissett is not Luck and doesn’t throw to TEs the way Luck did. It’s that simple. 
 

Do not be the least bit surprised to see him sign with New England in the spring. 

[Defjamz26]

3 hours ago, Coffeedrinker said:

Which is really odd because in 2017 Doyle had one fewer target and 23 more receptions than Hilton.  As soon as Luck retired I added Doyle to my fantasy team because of that connection.

Reich wasn’t here in 2017 though. Coaching could play a part of it as well.

[Dark Superman]

I bet he's missing Luck more than anyone right now.

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

On 11/5/2019 at 8:48 PM, Defjamz26 said:

This one is on Jacoby. As great as he’s been he’s not Andrew Luck. The regression of Ebron is mostly due to the talent and style of the QB. It’s not just Ebron, but the TEs in general aren’t getting as much production. Brissett doesn’t utilize them as much. Cox has disappeared completely and Doyle did to until this past game. Guys are mostly run blockers now and seeing as how he’s not a run blocker, it’s not hard to see why he’s getting 22 snaps.

Doyle had 80 catches in 2017 and went to a pro bowl.  Reich likes to use TE so him not here in 2017 I don’t think plays a part.

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

5 hours ago, Dark_Superman said:

I bet he's missing Luck more than anyone right now.

Him and luck had some special chemistry going on. I remember Luck and Ebron sitting down and designing plays. I bet Ebron is the one that really feels let down by what Luck did.i feel really bad for him. He seemed to have found a home here. He still might not of had the year if Doyle had stayed healthy.  We need to find a way to get Ebron on the field more. A guy that is that good of a play maker needs more then 22 snaps. With the WR hurting maybe we see him more out wide Sunday. I hope he can have a big second half of the season.