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Ebron - Invisible?

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1 hour ago, Chloe6124 said:

 

 

Holder would say that. 

 

Pretty sure it’s not Reich’s fault his TE-loving QB retired right before the season started. And it’s definitely not Reich’s fault that Ebron went back to dropping passes at a league-leading rate.

 

Reich is trying to win games...not justify Ebron’s presence on the roster...or his contract.

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On 11/5/2019 at 1:36 PM, colt18 said:

It's probably due to the reliance on the run game. Doyle is a better blocker, better at catching but significantly worse at RAC. Every single time he catches a ball you know he's going to get cut down. Ebron has all the moves but inconsistent hands. It makes sense, even tho I wish Ebron would get more targets.

 I rather have inconsistent hands then a guy who known to cough up the ball

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On 11/5/2019 at 3:45 PM, ManningGM said:

Don't really care if we lose him this offseason tbh. Dude is unreliable. Please go chase more money. 

 

Luck had two Pro Bowl spots last season. 

 I would say the same for Doyel because not really lighting it up out there the only reason they are keeping him is because he if from Indy

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This is interesting. This kind of proves we are doing the same thing as last year with our TE. Percentages are the same. The difference is we aren’t getting as many yards as last year.

 

 

 

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10 minutes ago, Chloe6124 said:

 

It’s about time! Play this out, we are depleted in the receiving ranks, the next few games he gets his number called and he delivers. Then we get TY, Funchess and Campbell all back in the mix. Ebron playing at a high level would be disastrous for Defenses with the receiving corps all healthy! 

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Like @EastStreet says its all a product of the QB. Brissett and the play calling have caused a decrease in the offense for not only Ebron but TY also. Brissett is not going to take the same shots luck took. Brissett has to see the WR open clearly before he rips it. We will likely continue to be more run heavy as the season continues, so there prob wont be an uptick in the numbers

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This is one thing I think is on Jacoby. Eric doesn’t create a lot of separation. Jacoby has to realize when Eric is in single coverage you need to throw him the ball because Eric will win that matchup.  It’s when Eric is wide open where he isn’t so good.  This goes back to JB conservative play. Just throw Eric the ball if he is in single coverage and the chances are he wins.

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So he isnt frustrated with the lack of production. It’s more just being on the more because he gets double teamed and other guys are open. I have to say I don’t disagree. Just give him more snaps.

 

 

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We are running the ball to much. Reich said he wanted the passing to be around 60 to 65 percent.

 

 

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I think this being brought up is long overdue. With TY, DF and Campbell missing time I thought for sure we would see more of Ebron. He had some drops early in the season but has played better in the small opportunity he has gotten. He's a playmaker, he needs to be out there. 

 

I hope we see a lot of 3 TE formations this Sunday. There's so many possibilities in that formation w the players we have.

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Ebron did make it clear it was not about his numbers. He knows he opens up the field for other players.

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2 hours ago, Chloe6124 said:

Well this is interesting. He just isn’t targeted as much.

 

 

 

Holder misses the boat a bit. Ebron with Luck had a good amount of vertical seam targets, which he doesn't get with JB. Also, Ebron's YAC is up over 70% IIRC this year, so his average yard per catch numbers are lacking context. Not to mention, half of his yards are from 3 throws with a lot of YAC. His air yards are about the same, and his targets are way down. 

 

Last year or in the off season, I said that Ebron struggles when a pass hits him in the numbers (body), but excels when the pass is led, up, or away..... Some folks laughed and argued, but here Holder is saying the same thing.... 

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5 hours ago, Mr.Debonair said:

Like @EastStreet says its all a product of the QB. Brissett and the play calling have caused a decrease in the offense for not only Ebron but TY also. Brissett is not going to take the same shots luck took. Brissett has to see the WR open clearly before he rips it. We will likely continue to be more run heavy as the season continues, so there prob wont be an uptick in the numbers

Not sure I'd say he needs to see the WR open clearly. He's not targeting open WRs (not seeing them at all or ignoring), and instead forcing it often to a doubled TY or TE (his first two reads most of time). TY is down in both air yards and YAC, while leading the team in targets by a bunch.

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6 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

 

Holder misses the boat a bit. Ebron with Luck had a good amount of vertical seam targets, which he doesn't get with JB. Also, Ebron's YAC is up over 70% IIRC this year, so his average yard per catch numbers are lacking context. Not to mention, half of his yards are from 3 throws with a lot of YAC. His air yards are about the same, and his targets are way down. 

 

Last year or in the off season, I said that Ebron struggles when a pass hits him in the numbers (body), but excels when the pass is led, up, or away..... Some folks laughed and argued, but here Holder is saying the same thing.... 

You are right about his catches. That’s why you just have to throw it and let him win his matchup. He always struggles with the easy wide open catches. That ultimately comes down to the QB taking a risk and trusting the Receiver.

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8 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

Not sure I'd say he needs to see the WR open clearly. He's not targeting open WRs (not seeing them at all or ignoring), and instead forcing it often to a doubled TY or TE (his first two reads most of time). TY is down in both air yards and YAC, while leading the team in targets by a bunch.

I was saying that I agree the passing game is going how it is because of JB

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4 minutes ago, Chloe6124 said:

You are right about his catches. That’s why you just have to throw it and let him win his matchup. He always struggles with the easy wide open catches. That ultimately comes down to the QB taking a risk and trusting the Receiver.

It's not really that he struggles with wide open catches, he struggles "bodying" the ball, and low center balls. He's very successful catching it with his hands outside of his core when he's both open and covered. Throw it to him, just not in the numbers lol.

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1 minute ago, Mr.Debonair said:

I was saying that I agree the passing game is going how it is because of JB

Yup. That's why I laugh at all the hot takes about needing to trade for high flying WRs. 95+% of the time, probably more, JB is going to the early read or dump down. You could probably have 3 TYs on the team, and our total yards wouldn't be a lot different. 

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7 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

Yup. That's why I laugh at all the hot takes about needing to trade for high flying WRs. 95+% of the time, probably more, JB is going to the early read or dump down. You could probably have 3 TYs on the team, and our total yards wouldn't be a lot different. 

I was def clamoring for another WR but then seeing Hoyer in game showed me its JB’s game that has the passing game looking the way it’s been

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There is two reasons his numbers are down. Doyle being back and we are running the ball more. We are only passing 52%. We need to be up closer to 60%.  That does come down to the QB in some ways choosing a run over a pass in a  RPO.

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3 hours ago, Chloe6124 said:

We are running the ball to much. Reich said he wanted the passing to be around 60 to 65 percent.

 

 


Actually...  I think he said 58-60 percent.

 

Remember,  Frank Reich also wanted the Colts to be top-10 (or was it top-5?) in the running game.   We couldn’t get that if he wanted us to pass 60-65 percent of the time. 

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40 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

It's not really that he struggles with wide open catches, he struggles "bodying" the ball, and low center balls. He's very successful catching it with his hands outside of his core when he's both open and covered. Throw it to him, just not in the numbers lol.

Yes that describes it perfectly. Just didn’t know how to say it. That’s probably something JB and him need to work on. 

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6 hours ago, Chloe6124 said:

 

I love the fact we now have everyone talking about this subject. Clearly when the press picks up on our discussions, the leaders who make the decisions just might listen. Look at Travis Kelce’s snap count for the year, 92% of the time he is on the field. Our Pro Bowl Tight end is on the field 30% of the time. You can argue Mahomes vs. Brissett, I just go back and look at Dallas Clark snap counts, he was never under 75%. Ebron is in a contract year, the next 8 plus games, we need him on the damn field! 

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11 minutes ago, Chloe6124 said:

There is two reasons his numbers are down. Doyle being back and we are running the ball more. We are only passing 52%. We need to be up closer to 60%.  That does come down to the QB in some ways choosing a run over a pass in a  RPO.

You can't ignore the JB factor. We are running the ball more to a large part because of JB. We are using Doyle more because we are running the ball more, and because Doyle is a possession TE (while Ebron is the vertical TE), because of JB.

 

While Doyle is getting almost twice the snaps of Ebron (52 vs 28 on average), Ebron still has more yards and TDs... In short, we're giving up offense because we're scheming around JB.

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19 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:


Actually...  I think he said 58-60 percent.

 

Remember,  Frank Reich also wanted the Colts to be top-10 (or was it top-5?) in the running game.   We couldn’t get that if he wanted us to pass 60-65 percent of the time. 

rank 9th in running the ball but that's all we and good we are 21 in total offense which we suck at. if we are even in the playoff we are not going to get far and the defense is not the best of the game.

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3 minutes ago, TrueBlue4ever said:

I love the fact we now have everyone talking about this subject. Clearly when the press picks up on our discussions, the leaders who make the decisions just might listen. Look at Travis Kelce’s snap count for the year, 92% of the time he is on the field. Our Pro Bowl Tight end is on the field 30% of the time. You can argue Mahomes vs. Brissett, I just go back and look at Dallas Clark snap counts, he was never under 75%. Ebron is in a contract year, the next 8 plus games, we need him on the damn field! 

Everyone points to he isn’t a good run blocker. There was a video from earlier in the year of a long run by Mack. He pancaked his guy and looked like Nelson. He even said to start the season he wanted to be a better blocker and be on the field more. It’s not that hard.  Get him on the field for about 60% of our snaps and our scoring might go up. There is no excuse with the WR injuries.

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3 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

You can't ignore the JB factor. We are running the ball more to a large part because of JB. We are using Doyle more because we are running the ball more, and because Doyle is a possession TE (while Ebron is the vertical TE), because of JB.

 

While Doyle is getting almost twice the snaps of Ebron (52 vs 28 on average), Ebron still has more yards and TDs... In short, we're giving up offense because we're scheming around JB.

I am not ignoring it. But it seems the % of targets to TE is close to last year. Ignoring it would be silly as like you posted above Ebron needs a certain kind of throw. Luck was great at those.

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1 hour ago, bsteves said:

I think this being brought up is long overdue. With TY, DF and Campbell missing time I thought for sure we would see more of Ebron. He had some drops early in the season but has played better in the small opportunity he has gotten. He's a playmaker, he needs to be out there. 

 

I hope we see a lot of 3 TE formations this Sunday. There's so many possibilities in that formation w the players we have.

When have DF and Campbell ever shown up in a game that scares the other team

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The bottom line is going from 64% to 52% is going to hurt overall numbers. If we can get that passing game up to 60% it will help the run game. So I don’t think more passing means less yards rushing. Reich knows that passing game needs to get up around 60%. He has mentioned that. Let’s see if it can happen.

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10 minutes ago, Chloe6124 said:

I am not ignoring it. But it seems the % of targets to TE is close to last year. Ignoring it would be silly as like you posted above Ebron needs a certain kind of throw. Luck was great at those.

Funch is almost the exact same way, which is why I've said many times they're the same guy minus 10lbs... Most of his drops are body drops too. 

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1 hour ago, Freenyfan102 said:

rank 9th in running the ball but that's all we and good we are 21 in total offense which we suck at. if we are even in the playoff we are not going to get far and the defense is not the best of the game.

IIRC, we were 10ish the last half of the season once Mack was back healthy, and the OL had gelled. Mack ranked 6th last year in YPG, and is currently 8th. His ypc is down from last year, but his ypg is a bit up (which simply means less yards per carry, but a lot more carries)..... our average yards per attempt is 19th...... 

 

Our D was 11 last year, and slid a bit to 14 this year.

 

Anyway, both O and D have taken steps back. And while we have more rushing yards per game, we have less yards per carry, so can't really say our rushing game has improved all that much. If we're going to be a "rushing" team, our ypc needs to improve, and our D really needs to improve. 

 

IMO, our YPC would be a heck of a lot better if we had more of a passing threat.

 

Should we invest heavily upgrading OL, RB, and all phases of D so we can be a "rushing" team?

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I think if the defense keeps it up will get into the top ten. We have been great the last four games. It’s still off a little with those games before Sheard got back. I saw a tweet today I would half to go look for. The difference in our defense the last four games is drastically  different then the first four. The Sheard injury hurt at the beginning. Also getting rookies going. I think we have settled down. The last four games we have only allowed 13,23,13, and 26. We have shut teams almost down in the red zone. I will see if I can find that tweet. We are on our way I think to being better then last year on defense.

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16 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

IIRC, we were 10ish the last half of the season once Mack was back healthy, and the OL had gelled. Mack ranked 6th last year in YPG, and is currently 8th. His ypc is down from last year, but his ypg is a bit up (which simply means less yards per carry, but a lot more carries)..... our average yards per attempt is 19th...... 

 

Our D was 11 last year, and slid a bit to 14 this year.

 

Anyway, both O and D have taken steps back. And while we have more rushing yards per game, we have less yards per carry, so can't really say our rushing game has improved all that much. If we're going to be a "rushing" team, our ypc needs to improve, and our D really needs to improve. 

 

IMO, our YPC would be a heck of a lot better if we had more of a passing threat.

 

Should we invest heavily upgrading OL, RB, and all phases of D so we can be a "rushing" team?

Do you remember in the off season how Reich kept talking about the running game because it opens up the pass. I think it’s safe to say it’s almost the opposite. Especially if you want to run to kill the clock when you have a lead. 

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19 minutes ago, Chloe6124 said:

I think if the defense keeps it up will get into the top ten. We have been great the last four games. It’s still off a little with those games before Sheard got back. I saw a tweet today I would half to go look for. The difference in our defense the last four games is drastically  different then the first four. The Sheard injury hurt at the beginning. Also getting rookies going. I think we have settled down. The last four games we have only allowed 13,23,13, and 26. We have shut teams almost down in the red zone. I will see if I can find that tweet. We are on our way I think to being better then last year on defense.

I don't know about all that. I think it's pretty much a wash, and they are cherry picking stats a bit. 

 

The last 2 teams we played are bottom 10 in total O. Houston put up almost 400 total yards on us, which is about their norm. You can't really judge the KC game with Mahomes hobbled and their 2 best WRs out. Pitt actually put up more than their average (like 15-20% more), and Denver was only slightly below their average. In terms of pts, Denver and Pitt were 3ish pts below their average (I subtracted the 7 from the pick 6), which is really the only positive. We're still giving up the yards and on the edge.

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