Elite Coach, Elite QB and/or Elite D

[TrueBlue4ever]

So here’s an interesting Question for Colt’s Nation. So assuming you need 2 of the 3 listed above to win a Super Bowl, which 2 will we get to first and how many years does it take us to get there?

 

Definition of Elite

 

A select part of a group that is superior to the rest in terms of ability or qualities

[csmopar]

Coach/QB

[Lucky Colts Fan]

We've had more than our fair share of Elite QBs.  It might be a while before we have another one.  

 

It feels weird to say this as a Colts fan, but I'm gonna go with Coach/Defense, and hopefully it's not too many years away.

 

If Ballard builds an Elite D, and Reich coaches a ball-control/quick-hitting offense at an Elite level, we won't necessarily need an Elite QB to win a SB.  Reich sort of already did this with Philly.  

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

13 minutes ago, Lucky Colts Fan said:

We've had more than our fair share of Elite QBs.  It might be a while before we have another one.  

 

It feels weird to say this as a Colts fan, but I'm gonna go with Coach/Defense, and hopefully it's not too many years away.

 

If Ballard builds an Elite D, and Reich coaches a ball-control/quick-hitting offense at an Elite level, we won't necessarily need an Elite QB to win a SB.  Reich sort of already did this with Philly.  

Watching the Seattle and rams game tonight. Even though there are some points scored our defense looks like a high school team compared to theirs. I think I am on defense to. It makes me mad seeing guys like clowney and Ansah in Seattle. We need help in FA. Not sure picking all these second round picks is going to give us many studs.

[2006Coltsbestever]

Give me Peyton for 15 years and I will take my chances. I will win at least 1 or 2 SB's as proven and win 75% of my games to keep everyone happy.

 

Not sure Brady would win more than a couple of SB's without BB. I give him 2 with a good coach. BB is the GOAT.

[runthepost]

12 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Give me Peyton for 15 years and I will take my chances. I will win at least 1 or 2 SB's as proven and win 75% of my games to keep everyone happy.

 

Not sure Brady would win more than a couple of SB's without BB. I give him 2 with a good coach. BB is the GOAT.

BB knows how to make players look great in his scheme it’s unbelievable. The defense they have this year is pretty good

[2006Coltsbestever]

Just now, runthepost said:

BB knows how to make players look great in his scheme it’s unbelievable. The defense they have this year is pretty good

Yeah he is the best I have ever seen , Brady is great too but IMO Peyton or Montana could win the same amount of SB's with BB. Luckily for Brady he was the one who has won that many. 

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

I just want a good team. I really don’t care how its achieved.  You wait all offseason for the season to come and your QB retired. Then your defense has all these crappy injuries. I don’t know if that Oakland game left a sour taste in my mouth or what. Just not that enthused this year. Really shouldn’t be down on the defense that much because in realty we haven’t let anyone score more then 24 pts in regulation. LA was overtime and the raiders was a pick six. So in reality we haven’t given up a ton of points. Just expected more.

[Goatface Killah]

Coach and a defense.

 

Being QB reliant means one injury and you're in the cellar. A great defense can keep you competitive with Kermit the Frog playing QB. A great coach can manufacture offense.

 

I love watching a great QB tho.

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

What’s also depressing is if JB doesn’t end up being the franchise guy that means a rookie and it sets us back 3 to 5 years. Which means wasting a lot of years of guys like Nelson and Leonard.

[2006Coltsbestever]

1 minute ago, GoatBeard said:

Coach and a defense.

 

Being QB reliant means one injury and you're in the cellar. A great defense can keep you competitive with Kermit the Frog playing QB. A great coach can manufacture offense.

 

I love watching a great QB tho.

Unless you have Peyton, he didn't miss a start in 13 seasons. He was smart and slid when needed, had a fast release, and just fell down when guys like Ray Lewis were on him 

[Lucky Colts Fan]

10 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Unless you have Peyton, he didn't miss a start in 13 seasons. He was smart and slid when needed, had a fast release, and just fell down when guys like Ray Lewis were on him 

 

Yeah, but is it easier to find Peyton 2.0, or build an elite defense?

 

There's only been one Peyton in the last 20 years, but there have been quite a few elite defenses:  Steelers, Ravens, Seahawks, Broncos, Rams, Pats, 49ers, Jags, Bears, Bucs...

 

If Ballard and Reich are legit elite at their respective jobs, then the best way to a SB for the Colts is for Ballard to build an elite defense and Reich to do an elite job of coaching an average offense well enough to win games.

[Fisticuffs111]

I'd want an elite coach and QB.

As for what are we closest to right now, or "what will we get to first?" Who knows? There's so much that can change from year to year. In regards to coaching...how much longer will Frank coach for? He's almost 58...he could coach for several more years, but it wouldn't surprise me if he retires sooner.

[coltsva]

24 minutes ago, GoatBeard said:

Coach and a defense.

 

Being QB reliant means one injury and you're in the cellar. A great defense can keep you competitive with Kermit the Frog playing QB. A great coach can manufacture offense.

 

I love watching a great QB tho.

Speaking of Kermit the Frog, have you seen those Seahawks uniforms tonight?

[2006Coltsbestever]

1 minute ago, Lucky Colts Fan said:

 

Yeah, but is it easier to find Peyton 2.0, or build an elite defense?

 

There's only been one Peyton in the last 20 years, but there have been quite a few elite defenses:  Steelers, Ravens, Seahawks, Broncos, Rams, Pats, 49ers, Jags, Bears, Bucs...

 

If Ballard and Reich are legit elite at their respective jobs, then the best way to a SB for the Colts is for Ballard to build an elite defense and Reich to do an elite job of coaching an average offense well enough to win games.

With Jacoby we can still win a lot but I agree we need an elite defense though to win it all. Reich can just be good if our D is elite because Jacoby is above average at worse and isn't a scrub.

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

16 minutes ago, coltsva said:

Speaking of Kermit the Frog, have you seen those Seahawks uniforms tonight?

It looks like they could play in the dark and glow.

[coltsfan_canada]

Elite Defense / Elite Coach & JB (he is not a turnover machine I like the kid)

[CurBeatElite]

Let's look at SB champs from 2001 on:

 

2001 -- Baltimore Ravens (QB - Trent Dilfer -- elite D, very good coach, below average QB)

2002 -- NE Patriots (QB - Brady, elite coach, emerging QB, very good D)

2003 -- Tampa Bay Bucs (QB -- Brad Johnson, elite D, average QB, above average coach)

2004 -- NE Patriots (QB -- Brady, elite coach, very good D, very good QB -- Brady wasn't 'elite' at this point, IMO)

2005 -- NE Patriots (QB -- Brady, elite coach, very good D, very good/elite QB)

2006 -- Pittsburgh Steelers (QB -- Big Ben, very good coach, elite/very good D, very good QB)

2007 -- Indianapolis Colts (QB -- Peyton, elite QB, HOF coach, good/average D)

2008 -- NY Giants (QB -- Eli, good QB, very good coach, elite D)

2009 -- Pittsburgh Steelers (QB - Big Ben, very good QB, very good coach, elite/very good D)

2010 -- NO Saints (QB -- Brees, elite QB, very good/elite coach, very good D)

2011 -- Green Bay (QB -- Rogers, elite QB, very good D, very good coach)

2012 -- NY Giants (QB -- Eli, good QB, elite D, very good coach)

2013 -- Baltimore Ravens (QB -- Flacco, good QB, elite D, very good coach)

2014 -- Seattle Seahawks (QB -- Wilson, very good QB, elite D, very good coach)

2015 -- NE Patriots  (QB -- Brady, elite QB, very good D, elite coach)

2016 -- Denver Broncos (QB -- Peyton, elite D, good coach, average QB -- at this point in his career, Peyton was a game manager)

2017 -- NE Patriots (QB -- Brady, elite QB, very good D, elite coach)

2018 -- Philly Eagles (QB -- Foles, good QB, very good, good coach)

2019 -- NE Patriots (QB -- Brady, elite QB, very good D, elite coach)

 

If we remove the Pats, who have an elite coach and a very good D and I put Brady as an elite QB in 3-4 of his 6 SBs (I don't think he was 'elite' his first 2 SBs).  we have 13 champs in the past 19 years.

 

Every single one of those teams had at least a very good D, except the 2006/7 Colts who allowed over 5.3 yards per carry rushing (one of the worst run defenses of all time).  We had an elite QB and  HOF coach along with 2 HOF WRs (assuming Reggie gets in).... we had the most efficient offense in the league and a few things broke our way after Hester's opening KR for TD.

 

Of those 13 SBs (non-Pats), we see Dilfer, Flacco, Foles, a washed up Peyton (Peyton was not elite on that Broncos' SB team, he was a game manager at the time with a bad arm/neck), and Brad Johnson with titles (that is 5 QBs who range from below average to slightly above average in 13 wins).  Then we see Eli with 2 titles (he IMO is above average, but certainly not elite) -- that makes 7 titles with QBs who I think are less than 'very good' (I think you can argue that Big Ben x2 and Wilson are closer to 'very good' than 'elite'.  which would make 10 of the last 13 (non-Pats titles) going to teams with very good/elite Ds and very good/elite coaches without an elite QB.  

 

The Pats are an anomaly in Sports History (not just NFL), and I don't think there's any doubt that Belichek (although he may cheat) is the best coach of all-time.  They have at least a 'very good D' every year, and Brady has developed into an elite QB.   Of the last 19 teams winning a SB (including Pats), the 2007 Colts are the only team that didn't have at least a 'very good D'.  

 

IMO, an elite coach and an elite D usually trumps an elite QB without a D.  I don't think Foles is much (if any) better than Brissett... with proper coaching and a little more O balance our O should be very good and should be able to put points up week in and week out.  If we had an elite D, I have very little doubt Brissett is just as good as several of the QBs who have won SBs in the past 20 years who had an elite D and very good/elite coaching... 

 

 

[NewColtsFan]

3 hours ago, TrueBlue4ever said:

So here’s an interesting Question for Colt’s Nation. So assuming you need 2 of the 3 listed above to win a Super Bowl, which 2 will we get to first and how many years does it take us to get there?

 

Definition of Elite

 

A select part of a group that is superior to the rest in terms of ability or qualities

 

I love an elite defense....

 

But the way the NFL is run these days,  this one isn't a hard question...

 

It's Elite Coach/Elite QB. 

 

By a landslide and nothing is a close second.   Doesn't mean an elite defense isn't important, or that you can't win with another formula...   not every Super Bowl winner was done with coach/QB.     But the desirable duo is coach/QB.    It's what everyone is shooting for.

 

But it's not easy to find either....

 

[Thunderbolt]

Elite Coach, and elite D.

An elite coach will oversee and dictate the culture of the the defense as well as coach and elite QB.  Results success aka as NE.

[CurBeatElite]

47 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

I love an elite defense....

 

But the way the NFL is run these days,  this one isn't a hard question...

 

It's Elite Coach/Elite QB. 

 

By a landslide and nothing is a close second.   Doesn't mean an elite defense isn't important, or that you can't win with another formula...   not every Super Bowl winner was done with coach/QB.     But the desirable duo is coach/QB.    It's what everyone is shooting for.

 

But it's not easy to find either....

 

 

I tend to disagree (see my post above)... but if you look at SB history, only twice did the losing team score more than 30 points in the SB (the 49ers scored 31 against the Ravens when Flacco and John Harbaugh beat Kaepernick and Jim Harbaugh in 2013, and the Pats scored 33 when Foles and Doug Peterson beat them in 2018  -- in both cases neither winning team had what would be considered close to an elite QB)..... Peyton was an elite QB the vast majority of his time with Indy, and only won one SB (he was able to carry our team through the regular season is what was normally a weak AFC South division, but we didn't have the D to get us over the hump in the post-season), Dan Marino (certainly up there in a top 5 QB of all-time argument) never won a SB, etc..

 

As you point out, it's very rare to be able to pair an elite coach with an elite QB (there just aren't that many of them -- in today's NFL, I'd say you'd be hard pressed to really define any QB aside from Brady, Mahommes, Brees and Rogers as truly 'elite' QBs, you have guys like Wilson, a healthy Big Ben, and a few others who are very good QBs but probably not 'elite' -- that's less than 15% of teams with 'elite' QBs).  There are also very few coaches I would consider 'elite' (really, Belichek is the only one I think you can say is undoubtedly an 'elite' HC, Reid is very good but has never won a SB so I have a hard time putting him up as 'elite', then you have other coaches like Carroll, McVay, John Harbaugh and a few others who are probably at the 'very good' tier and a bunch of other coaches who are still building their resumes to go from 'good' to 'very good' - I'd say that's Reich so far... and a bunch of HCs who are probably average or below).  Brady and Belichek are an anomaly, there has never been an elite QB with an elite HC together for close to as long as those guys have been.

 

It's been shown time and again that an 'elite' QB can carry a team through a regular season (e.g., Peyton, Rogers, Brees, Marino), but none of those guys were consistently winning SBs or even getting to the SB, usually because they didn't have an 'elite' team/D around them.  Peyton played with HOFer Marvin and likely future HOFers Reggie and Edge, but only got to the SB twice in Indy with a .500 record.  Our D simply wasn't good enough to get us over the hump in the playoffs during his long career here... he won another SB with Denver when he was basically a gimp who was called upon to manage the game in the SB while his D held CAR to 10 points.  The Rams last year had what most thought was an 'elite' or very close to elite O, and NE held them to 3 points to get a win in the SB.... Brady didn't have a great game, but their D was lights out.

 

There are far more examples of teams with very good/elite D's and non-elite QBs winning SBs over history than there are of teams with elite QBs and less than a very good D winning SBs (pointed out above, since 2001, only the 2007 Colts' had less than a very good D and won a SB, every other team over that 19 year period had a D that was at least considered very good).  If you remove the Pats, who have an elite coach and elite QB and always have at least a very good D, there are 10 of the last 13 SB champions who won with very good/elite D's and non-elite QBs.

 

Defense wins championships, it always has and it always will..   having a good/very good QB along with a very good/elite D has proven to win more championships over time than having a very good/elite QB and a D which is not very good/elite.  It also helps to have a well-balanced O which can run and attack in multiple ways instead of having an elite QB with a passing-dominated O (see Peyton-- after losing Edge, we never really had a run game which was more than average and that coupled with average D's allowed arguably the greatest QB of all-time to get to two SBs with only 1 win during his tenure here).  

 

 

 

 

[lollygagger8]

Defense wins championships 

[Myles]

Missing the elite GM option.    So I will bundle that with coach as it is with Bill Belichick.  He's a good GM and an elite coach.  Willing to cheat to win.   

The QB or defense is a tough call.   QB is great for fans because you will be in the playoffs almost every season.  Defense is great because you can plug in a wide range of QB's and be successful.  In this new NFL, there are more QB's who can guide a very good offense.   

 

I go with Coach/GM and Defense.

[aaron11]

Coach and QB.

my argument against going defense here is they usually dont stay  elite for more than a couple years.  the Bucs and Seahawks are pretty good examples of this.  

 

an elite coach could last 20+ years and QB 15 or so.  there are not many elite coaches though 

[aaron11]

8 hours ago, CurBeatElite said:

I don't think Foles is much (if any) better than Brissett...

 Foles was pretty great in that playoff run, and lights out in the super bowl.  

[Myles]

9 minutes ago, aaron11 said:

 Foles was pretty great in that playoff run, and lights out in the super bowl.  

That is true, but he has never started more than 11 games in a season.   When he started 11 games, he went 4-7, 56% completions, 7 TD, 10 INT, rating of 69 while only being sacked 14 times.   

[ColtStrong2013]

For us going forward? Elite offensive minded coach (i think Frank has a ways to go but can get there) that has an elite o-line, and an elite defense that doesn't matter who the coordinator is each year. That's how Ballard is attempting to set this team up. We had the elite qb but he walked away from the game.

 

Frank is a qb coach and brilliant offensive mind. And he is here to stay. We are drafting and playing young defensive players so they hopefully develop into a top notch defense for a 5-7 year stretch starting in a few years. 

 

I don't mind it. We are going to be in a position to win a lot of football games sooner than later. The defense might be frustrating now, but let's see how they develop over the next 13 weeks and then over the offseason... 

[ColtsBlueFL]

10 hours ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Not sure Brady would win more than a couple of SB's without BB. I give him 2 with a good coach. BB is the GOAT.

 

BB always gets some credit  because he is the GOAT of head coaches. But he's a D coach, and from 2001-2004 Brady was very early in his career.  Yet Brady won 3 Super Bowls in 4 years during that span, mostly because of his Offensive Coordinator Charlie  Weis. (He installed the Erhardt-Perkins system they still use today).

 

Weis left after 2004, and it took another 10 years for Brady to Win his next Super Bowl (they lost in 2007 and 2011).  Benedict Arnold, I mean Josh McDaniels, has grown into creative game plans with his version of the Erhardt-Perkins system.

 

But BB's defense has always been a major cog.

[Fisticuffs111]

9 hours ago, CurBeatElite said:

2008 -- NY Giants (QB -- Eli, good QB, very good coach, elite D)

2012 -- NY Giants (QB -- Eli, good QB, elite D, very good coach)

It's hard to argue with the overall point that defense more than helps win championships...but I just had to point out that the those Giants defenses both ranked outside the top 15 those years (17th and 25th).

Their defense played well in the playoffs...but if we're counting playoff run as a part of those labels then it'd only be fair to label Flacco's SB run as "elite" and Foles' SB run as at least "very good"

[Lucky Colts Fan]

8 hours ago, CurBeatElite said:

Defense wins championships, it always has and it always will.

 

2 hours ago, lollygagger8 said:

Defense wins championships 

 

To add to this:  Just look at what has happened to some elite QBs in the playoffs/SB.

 

How many times did an elite defense knock Peyton out of the playoffs?  And I include the Saints, even though I hate how their head-hunting style of play is what made them elite.  I mean, just look at that record-setting Broncos offense from 2013 when it met the Legion of Boom in the SB.  43-8...

 

How many times did Elway get knocked out of the playoffs/SB by an elite defense?

 

When Brady hasn't made it to the SB, it's usually been because he ran into a buzzsaw defense in the AFCCG like the Steelers, Raven, or Broncos.

[Superman]

It's easier to sustain the coach and the QB. That's two people.

 

An elite defense requires six or seven high level starters at the right positions, plus solid depth. So you're looking at 10-12 players. And if they're pieces to a great defense, they'll want to be paid, so you'll have to replace foundational players regularly. Plus, if you have an elite defense, the DC is going to get HC opportunities. 

 

It's hard to even build an elite defense. I think Colts fans should know that. Sustaining an elite defense for more than a couple years is nearly impossible, and that's without big injuries to critical players. 

 

But if you told me I could sustain an elite defense for several years, I'd prefer an elite defense + elite offensive minded head coach, who will get enough production out of an above average coach (I don't want Ryan Tannehill, I still need a capable QB). I think you can win SBs with that formula.

[Lucky Colts Fan]

9 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

But the way the NFL is run these days,  this one isn't a hard question...

 

It's Elite Coach/Elite QB.

 

Are you answering the right question, though?  The OP asked which 2 will the Colts acquire first, and how long until we have 2 of those 3.

 

You might want the QB before the defense, but do you think the Colts will be able to find one anytime soon?

 

I think we already have the elite coach (hopefully), and Ballard will be able to construct an elite defense in the next few years.  I'm not holding my breath that the Colts will find an elite QB in the next few years, but I am optimistic that Jacoby can win us a SB with the right coach/scheme and an elite defense.  

[chad72]

Elite coach and QB for continuity. Elite coach will get the right players for D and maximize it with the right coaches and game plans, thus increasing margin for error for his QB.

 

Elite QB, when the supporting cast has a bad day, can raise his level to will them to wins sometimes. An above average QB can only do so much.

 

Elite/very good Ds keep game closer without letting it get out of hand but it still is up to the QB to come through when it matters. If the above average QB understands game situations well and is clutch when it matters, yes, surrounding him with an elite defense can work.

[Lucky Colts Fan]

4 minutes ago, Superman said:

It's easier to sustain the coach and the QB. That's two people.

 

An elite defense requires six or seven high level starters at the right positions, plus solid depth. So you're looking at 10-12 players. And if they're pieces to a great defense, they'll want to be paid, so you'll have to replace foundational players regularly.

 

It's hard to even build an elite defense. I think Colts fans should know that. Sustaining an elite defense for more than a couple years is nearly impossible, and that's without big injuries to critical players.

 

While true, isn't the reverse true about the QB?

 

As Colts fans, we've seen how hamstrung a team can be by the franchise QB being the highest paid player in the league.  Not a lot of money left for foundational pieces on the defense.

 

You're also only one injury away from purgatory, which we as Colts fans also know all too well.  A handful of elite players on defense can make up for the loss of one to injury.  Relying on one elite player is easier, but riskier.

[Fisticuffs111]

14 minutes ago, Superman said:

It's easier to sustain the coach and the QB. That's two people.

 

An elite defense requires six or seven high level starters at the right positions, plus solid depth. So you're looking at 10-12 players. And if they're pieces to a great defense, they'll want to be paid, so you'll have to replace foundational players regularly. Plus, if you have an elite defense, the DC is going to get HC opportunities. 

 

It's hard to even build an elite defense. I think Colts fans should know that. Sustaining an elite defense for more than a couple years is nearly impossible, and that's without big injuries to critical players. 

Yeah, these are very good points. Finding an elite QB is a challenge, but building and keeping an elite defense is equally as big a challenge.

It's an important argument to make when sometimes it seems like it's assumed that Ballard is going to build this defensive monster and be able to sustain it. First, we still need some stud DL/pass rush, which are gonna be hard enough to find in their own right (especially if we're drafting in the in the mid 1st round or later), our young guys have to develop which isn't automatic, we have to stay healthy, and then lastly...arguably the hardest part...Ballard has to keep them together.

[CurBeatElite]

1 hour ago, aaron11 said:

 Foles was pretty great in that playoff run, and lights out in the super bowl.  

 

Same with Flacco on his run -- but his D carried him there and it makes it a lot easier to play well at QB in high pressure games when you aren't carrying the team by yourself (e.g., Manning threw several forced INTs in big games, knowing he basically had to put points on the board every drive due to our D not being able to stop the opponent... Peyton also had a hard time in big games for the early part of his career, so maybe something about Foles' and Flacco's calm demeanors helped them as well, but undoubtedly going into a game as a QB knowing you've got a good supporting cast in all 3 phases helps). 

 

9 minutes ago, Fisticuffs111 said:

It's hard to argue with the overall point that defense more than helps win championships...but I just had to point out that the those Giants defenses both ranked outside the top 15 those years (17th and 25th).

Their defense played well in the playoffs...but if we're counting playoff run as a part of those labels then it'd only be fair to label Flacco's SB run as "elite" and Foles' SB run as at least "very good"

 

See above response, and you're right -- that Flacco playoff/SB run was one of the best in NFL history (I think he threw 11 TDs and 0 INTs in that span).  He did have a somewhat lucky deep ball against Denver to get past the Broncos at the end of the game, but otherwise he played very well.  I would argue, as above, it is a lot easier to play with composure and relaxation though when you know you've got a full team around you to back you up and you don't have to force things -- both Foles and Flacco were in that situation (as was Peyton when he won with the Broncos as basically a gimp, as was Dilfer when he won with Baltimore, etc. etc.).

 

As far as the Giants go, there were only 2 teams in the NFL in the year they won the first SB who could disrupt Brady without blitzing (the Colts except Freeney went down in week 17, and the Giants).  With Strahan, Justin Tuck and Osi Umeniyora they at least had an elite DL and they had the formula to beat Brady (i.e., hit him with your front 4 and keep everyone else in coverage -- they did just that and they were excellent in the post-season even though they got off to a slow start early in the year).  Their second SB over the Pats they had Tuck, Umeniyora and JPP, again probably one of the best DLs in football and a DL built to hit Brady without blitzing.

[Myles]

10 minutes ago, Lucky Colts Fan said:

 

Are you answering the right question, though?  The OP asked which 2 will the Colts acquire first, and how long until we have 2 of those 3.

 

You might want the QB before the defense, but do you think the Colts will be able to find one anytime soon?

 

I think we already have the elite coach (hopefully), and Ballard will be able to construct an elite defense in the next few years.  I'm not holding my breath that the Colts will find an elite QB in the next few years, but I am optimistic that Jacoby can win us a SB with the right coach/scheme and an elite defense.  

I hope so too.  I really haven't seen much to tell me Reich is at an "elite" level coaching yet.   

[Lucky Colts Fan]

1 minute ago, Myles said:

I hope so too.  I really haven't seen much to tell me Reich is at an "elite" level coaching yet.   

 

Yeah, I don't think he's there yet as a HC.

 

But if you take into account what he did with Philly before we hired him, I think he has the makings to get there once he gets his footing as a HC.

 

Remember it's only his 2nd year as a HC, but he seems to be on his way.   

[Superman]

Just now, Lucky Colts Fan said:

 

While true, isn't the reverse true about the QB?

 

As Colts fans, we've seen how hamstrung a team can be by the franchise QB being the highest paid player in the league.  Not a lot of money left for foundational pieces on the defense.

 

You're also only one injury away from purgatory, which we as Colts fans also know all too well.  A handful of elite players on defense can make up for the loss of one to injury.  Relying on one elite player is easier, but riskier.

 

I reject the idea that paying a QB hamstrings your team. Highly paid QBs account for ~15% of the cap. You can't build a good roster with 85% of the cap? You can if you draft well and keep the right guys.

 

The problem for the Colts has been poor drafting, specifically on defense, and injuries on defense. This includes HOF GM Bill Polian, and HOF defensive-minded head coach Tony Dungy.

 

And while a QB injury can be devastating, it's usually just one lost year. At least you can project your QB coming back and playing at a reasonably high level. If your edge rusher tears his ACL, when will he be back at 100%? Will he ever? Will you want to pay him? What happens in two years when Bradley Chubb wants to be the highest paid defensive player, despite the fact that he's torn the same ACL twice in five years, and already isn't the bendiest edge rusher out there? Same logic applies to basically any important defensive player.  

 

And ultimately, if your QB can't play, you have to replace one player. To build and maintain an elite defense, you have to continually replace several players, primarily through the draft. It's a lot harder to build and maintain an elite defense than people understand. 

[CurBeatElite]

5 minutes ago, Lucky Colts Fan said:

 

While true, isn't the reverse true about the QB?

 

As Colts fans, we've seen how hamstrung a team can be by the franchise QB being the highest paid player in the league.  Not a lot of money left for foundational pieces on the defense.

 

You're also only one injury away from purgatory, which we as Colts fans also know all too well.  A handful of elite players on defense can make up for the loss of one to injury.  Relying on one elite player is easier, but riskier.

 

Yes -- I think us going 2-14 without Peyton (when experts were predicting us to be SB contenders winning 12+ games) is a perfect example.... it's getting hard to argue with Brady being the GOAT after his 6th ring, but I always bring up the point that they still went 11-5 the year he was out with a QB (Cassell) who never played a snap in college (behind Mark Sanchez and Matt Barkley). ... Peyton did so much more (IMO) to mask problems with our team than Brady ever has had to, and it showed without Peyton we were the laughing stock of the NFL.  Same with Luck missing a full year, we went 4-12 and were exposed as a very bad football team.  There is a reason why Peyton (and Luck) had a hard time getting over the hump in the playoffs -- because in the playoffs the whole team needs to show up to beat other  elite teams and in most years we simply didn't have the supporting cast or depth across the roster (especially on D) to get past some very difficult AFC foes.  Another factor in the playoffs which isn't as big in the regular season is weather -- chances are (if Indy doesn't get homefield advantage and their dome) there will be games played in January in NE, Pittsburgh, Baltimore (heck this year maybe Buffalo or Cleveland).... the weather there is typically nasty at that point in time -- I don't know off the top of my head, but I remember several playoff games which were in very cold weather (where Peyton seemed to always struggle) and sometimes winter storms which does a number on limiting the QB/passing game... without a very good D and the balanced O to run the ball, it's almost an impossible task for a QB to go into that type of environment and be expected to win with a high percentage.