Brissett Extended (Merge)

[Superman]

5 minutes ago, Coffeedrinker said:

How do things work with Kelly?  he's not part of the 53 now, correct?  So when he comes off suspension the Colts will either have to put him on the 53 man roster or PS is that correct?

 

Correct, they'll have to figure out what to do with him before Week 3. Can't put him on the PS unless he clears waivers.

[Valpo2004]

14 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

Correct, they'll have to figure out what to do with him before Week 3. Can't put him on the PS unless he clears waivers.

 

I find this very interesting because they could have waived him and practice squaded him after his 2 weeks where up provided that no one signed him to their roster correct?

 

It almost seems like they want to roster the kid, but given that Hoyer's deal was for 3 years it makes very little sense unless they are planning on keeping 3 QB's on the roster. 

[ClaytonColt]

Remember in the summer when everyone was up in arms because they thought we might give $15 a year to pro-bowlers, Collins and Mosley.

 

Now we can just chuck $15m a year around like its confetti and nobody gives a damn.

[Superman]

1 minute ago, Valpo2004 said:

I find this very interesting because they could have waived him and practice squaded him after his 2 weeks where up provided that no one signed him to their roster correct?

 

 

Technically, they still can. But there was no reason to waive him prior to Week 1, since he doesn't get paid and doesn't count against the roster. That decision doesn't need to be made until Week 3.

 

He's still PS eligible, but he has to clear waivers first.

 

The other wrinkle is that once he clears waivers, he's a free agent. No guarantee he'd sign to our PS, he might decide to join another team's PS. Seems unlikely, but still possible.

[throwing BBZ]

13 minutes ago, Indy_Mike said:

I am referring more to the moves by their front office....I have softened my stance a little since Brissett's contract was finally accurately explained. But I still do not understand the Hoyer signing but it's their money! 

 

  Why did we bid the guaranteed $$ what a couple other backups got this off season?
  We are to believe there were a number of teams interested, so that could set the price. That is understandable.
 What did our staff see in him?
 He was considered invaluable running the scout team to prepare the NE defense.
Very smart, positive energy, lots of experience that he willingly shares.
 He should be excellent in the QB room, helping whoever is in there to be their best.
 We can keep him through training camp next season to get the most out of him and let him go then if we no longer need him.
 We are fortunate once again.

[Myles]

20 minutes ago, Coffeedrinker said:

A couple of things:

 

One; I never said anything similar to the above.  You may not be referring to me but since you and I have had a couple of posts back and forth, I thought I would reply.

 

Two; how else can you judge a player other than past performances?  If you base your opinion of a player on future performances then that is just hope.  Personally, I fully expect Brissett to be better than he was in 2017.  But based on the issues I saw with him at QB (not the team, not the coaching, not the GM but with JB at QB) and the little I have seen of Brissett in this preseason, I don't think he has the makings of being an elite or even a very good QB.  I think his ceiling is as a good QB.  Reich at one point stated JB is a top 20 QB in the league  And I agree with that, he is probably right around 18 to 20 in the league.

I wasn't necessarily referring to you.   More the people who were blaming Grigson and Pagano for Luck getting injured (which is valid).    But many of the same people are using Briissetts play in 2017 against him.  

 

Brissett had good numbers in pre season (113.5 rating), but I don't think that transfers to the regular season.   But he could easily get top 15 play with this team.  

[Colts_Fan12]

3 hours ago, Coffeedrinker said:

I don't know if this was answered.  But, for me, the reason I don't think Jacoby is a long term answer is because he cannot handle pressure... and not just the pressure of a pass rush, but situational pressure.  I agree the Colts team now is better than the Colts team in 2017 but even in 2017, with a bad team Brissett had the lead 8 times heading into the 4th quarter and 7 times the Colts lost the game and that was in large part because Jacoby did not complete a 3rd down pass to keep a drive alive, or he threw an INT (he only threw 7 INTs but 5 of them where in the 4th quarter or OT and 5 were when the game was ties or the Colts were trailing).  So, he doesn't play his best when the game is on the line.

 

Now, I will fully admit, it's possible he has gotten better in that category, that is what this season will show us.  I think the current Colts team is good enough for an 8-8 or maybe even a 9-7 record.  I think if the Colts had an elite QB then 11-13 wins would have been not only possible but a disappointment if not achieved.

couldnt agree with this more great post Coffee!!

[jvan1973]

35 minutes ago, ClaytonColt said:

Remember in the summer when everyone was up in arms because they thought we might give $15 a year to pro-bowlers, Collins and Mosley.

 

Now we can just chuck $15m a year around like its confetti and nobody gives a damn.

Those guys got long contracts.   Plus,   they don't play qb

[Nickster]

4 hours ago, Myles said:

But it is NOT a big commitment.   With the cap space we had this year, like you said, it is a non factor.   So we are not in bad shape even if we cut him after the season.   

In my opinion, the worst case scenario:

Brisset doesn't play great.   Colts go a different direction for next season and Brissett is relegated to the back up role again.  Thus giving us a good backup for 2020.  

 

I thought it was only a 2 year deal.   I don't think we have him past 2020.

This is what I said earlier.  We in essence gave Jacoby Freakin Brissett a 1 year 28 million dollar extension.  

 

It's perplexing to me and seems like quite the overpay.  Or why not lock him up for more years if you think hes a 28 mill QB?

 

Weird move.

[Lennon1940]

54 minutes ago, krunk said:

If JB comes out and puts up at least 3 TDs on San Diego most of the people in this thread will slowly start to gravitate over to showing more faith in the guy.  

 

True. However, he's started 42 games between college and pros and he's thrown 3 TD's passes only 5 times. That's only like 12 percent. He wasn't even a playmaker in college and that's what has bugged me about him. I just look around the league and usually the teams that continually make the playoffs and do well in the playoffs have dynamic playmaking QB's. Perhaps he'll turn into one, but it's pretty rare for a guy to become a stud NFL QB when he wasn't even a super stud in college. I want more than a game manager back there. 

[Mitch Connors]

9 minutes ago, jvan1973 said:

Those guys got long contracts.   Plus,   they don't play qb

 

Agreed. Plus $15 mil a year has got to be on the very very low end for a starting QB (excluding rookie contracts).

[Myles]

I like what they did Brissett.   Very little reason not to like it.   They used free cap space this year for much of it.  They gave them options after this season.   I was worried that if Brissett did well this season (which is very possible with such a solid team around him), that he would demand Dak type of money.   Now we don't have to worry about that.  

[Nickster]

Does Dak make 28 mill a year?  We only have him for NEXT YEAR BEYOND WHAT WE had him for 2 mill.  How does this take care of the Dak problem?

 

IF they are convinced he is that good why a 28 million dollar 1 year contract?  Why not extend him for a couple more years?

 

This is not a move that makes any sense.

[Myles]

3 minutes ago, Nickster said:

This is what I said earlier.  We in essence gave Jacoby Freakin Brissett a 1 year 28 million dollar extension.  

 

It's perplexing to me and seems like quite the overpay.  Or why not lock him up for more years if you think hes a 28 mill QB?

 

Weird move.

Most of the money was unused cap space for this year.  If you are worried about Irsays money you have a point.   If you are worried about the Colts salary cap space, you don't.    

If I could go into the year $50 million under the cap or $30 million under the cap, it doesn't bother me at all.   I'm just spit-balling the numbers there.  Now if signing him meant we had to cut Ebron, Hilton or Houston I'd be concerned.

[Nickster]

Well man OK, no I'm not worried about Irsay's money at all.  But what if he sucks?  He is going to be in essence de facto, not de jure the SIXTH HIGHEST PAID PLAYER IN THE HISTORY OF NFL FOOTBALL NEXT YEAR.  What the farq for?

 

Again, if they think this guy is a no doubter then why not sign him for more years?

 

Couldn't cap space be used for extra pieces later?

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

You have to love this.

 

 

[Myles]

1 minute ago, Nickster said:

Does Dak make 28 mill a year?  We only have him for NEXT YEAR BEYOND WHAT WE had him for 2 mill.  How does this take care of the Dak problem?

 

IF they are convinced he is that good why a 28 million dollar 1 year contract?  Why not extend him for a couple more years?

 

This is not a move that makes any sense.

I disagree.  I think this makes total sense.   It's money we had to spend.  We can cut ties after this season if we want.   If he is good, we have him for an extra season.   It's also built some good faith with him in case we need to sign him again.    Really no downside.   That's the beauty of being under the cap so much.   Not much available at QB in next year's off season that is better than Brissett.  We'll probably be drafting in the 15-25 range.   More risk in drafting a QB than going with what you know.   I'm assuming Ballard knows what he is doing because he has earned it.  

[Nickster]

OK man.  See your point. Couldn't disagree more.  

 

I am assuming Ballard isn't infalliable.  The thing that will be bad is if Jacoby sucks.  In that case we will have much less cap space to try to sign a vet if needed.  

 

Maybe he'll be good but I am not all that optimistic.  In that case it will have been a mistake not to lock him up for longer.

4 minutes ago, Chloe6124 said:

You have to love this.

 

 

 

That is awesome.  Everyone needs Jacoby Brissett to be their agent because he just took Irsay to the cleaners.

[Myles]

2 minutes ago, Nickster said:

1 - Well man OK, no I'm not worried about Irsay's money at all.  But what if he sucks?  He is going to be in essence de facto, not de jure the SIXTH HIGHEST PAID PLAYER IN THE HISTORY OF NFL FOOTBALL NEXT YEAR.  What the farq for?

 

2 - Again, if they think this guy is a no doubter then why not sign him for more years?

 

Couldn't cap space be used for extra pieces later?

1 - But if it isn't putting us in salary cap trouble, what is the difference?   It's just Irsays cash.  

 

2- There is a bit of risk.   It would have been a dumb move to commit to him for 4-5 years at this point.   2 years puts us in a good situation to evaluate what Ballard and Reich believe to be a quality starter in the NFL.   If they are right, they won this handily.   If not, they did nothing but waste some of Irsays money without hurting the cap.  

 

Low risk, high reward if you will.

[Nickster]

Well what I am saying is that I think they could have given him a 20 mil signing bonus and probably given him like a 4 year 60 mill contract.  See what I'm saying?

 

Same thing. Cut him next year if necessary.  You are only committed to the signing bonus.  The contract is meaningless for teams.

 

But its the Brissett shrewdness as an agent.  If you consider Brissett did his own deal and owes no percentage to an agent, he becomes the 3rd or 4th highest paid player next year.

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

His cap hit  for the 2020 season will be small. Most of this money hits the cap now. The colts have 116m in cap space and need to hit the 89% anyway. 

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

He is a popular guy.

 

 

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

 

[jvan1973]

20 minutes ago, Nickster said:

Does Dak make 28 mill a year?  We only have him for NEXT YEAR BEYOND WHAT WE had him for 2 mill.  How does this take care of the Dak problem?

 

IF they are convinced he is that good why a 28 million dollar 1 year contract?  Why not extend him for a couple more years?

 

This is not a move that makes any sense.

It isn't a 1 year 28 million dollar contract.   They get two years to see what he has.   If he is great this year,   they probably extend him again next year.   If he isn't very good,   they will only take a 5 million cap hit next year if they decide to part ways

[Superman]

16 minutes ago, Nickster said:

Well man OK, no I'm not worried about Irsay's money at all.  But what if he sucks?  He is going to be in essence de facto, not de jure the SIXTH HIGHEST PAID PLAYER IN THE HISTORY OF NFL FOOTBALL NEXT YEAR.  What the farq for?

 

 

This is an interesting way to look at it. Wrong, but interesting. 

 

It's a two year, $30m contract. He won't be paid $28m in 2020, and he won't be the sixth highest paid player. He's the 54th highest paid player in the NFL, and the 19th highest paid QB (until Goff and/or Prescott get re-signed). 

[jvan1973]

11 minutes ago, Nickster said:

 

But its the Brissett shrewdness as an agent.  If you consider Brissett did his own deal and owes no percentage to an agent, he becomes the 3rd or 4th highest paid player next year.

He isn't close to the 3rd or 4th highest paid next year.   Agents make between 5 and 10 percent.

[Nickster]

1 minute ago, Superman said:

 

This is an interesting way to look at it. Wrong, but interesting. 

 

It's a two year, $30m contract. He won't be paid $28m in 2020, and he won't be the sixth highest paid player. He's the 54th highest paid player in the NFL, and the 19th highest paid QB (until Goff and/or Prescott get re-signed). 

You say tomato I say tomato.  30-2=28  

[Superman]

30 minutes ago, Mitch Connors said:

 

Agreed. Plus $15 mil a year has got to be on the very very low end for a starting QB (excluding rookie contracts).

 

The only non-starter ahead of him on the salary ranking is Alex Smith, and he would be the starter if not for his injury. Again, he's the 19th highest paid QB in the NFL. 

[Superman]

Just now, Nickster said:

You say tomato I say tomato.  30-2=28  

 

So what? He signed a two year contract for $30m. Still pending structure details, but I think it's obvious that he will not make $2m this year and $28m next year.

 

Your analysis is flawed, and it seems like it's purposeful in an effort to inflate what JB is being paid. If you take issue with the contract, do so honestly and stop fudging the numbers.

[Nickster]

Are you being obtuse or do you really not understand that when you are signed up for one year for 2 mill and then you get a contract that has an addtional 28 million dollars for one more year over and above the one you are already obligated to play and certainly have no leverage as a backup QB that then in reality, you have gotten a 1 year 28 mill contract.

 

Now technically no.  He got a 13 mill raise this year and a one year 15 mill contract next year.  Either way, it seems strange.  

 

If you have to spend money why not spend it on guys who have proved themselves?  If you think ytou have a gem why not give the 20 mill signing bonus/guarantee and simply tack on years?

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

 

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

 

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

 

 

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

 

[Superman]

4 minutes ago, Nickster said:

Are you being obtuse or do you really not understand that when you are signed up for one year for 2 mill and then you get a contract that has an addtional 28 million dollars for one more year over and above the one you are already obligated to play and certainly have no leverage as a backup QB that then in reality, you have gotten a 1 year 28 mill contract.

 

Now technically no.  He got a 13 mill raise this year and a one year 15 mill contract next year.  Either way, it seems strange.  

 

If you have to spend money why not spend it on guys who have proved themselves?  If you think ytou have a gem why not give the 20 mill signing bonus/guarantee and simply tack on years?

 

Look at it however you want, it's a two year contract for $30m. 

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

 

[Coffeedrinker]

1 hour ago, ClaytonColt said:

Remember in the summer when everyone was up in arms because they thought we might give $15 a year to pro-bowlers, Collins and Mosley.

 

Now we can just chuck $15m a year around like its confetti and nobody gives a damn.

No, I don't remember that.  I remember some people were against it.  Some people are against giving that contract to Brissett.

 

I don't really see the point of this post other than to stir the pot and attribute the reactions of a few to "everyone".

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

Not sure what is so hard to understand they ripped up the rookie deal and replaced it with this new 2 year deal. They basically have him franchise tag money but instead of it hitting possibly all next year they front loaded it to hit this year. 

[Nickster]

So that is 

27 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

The only non-starter ahead of him on the salary ranking is Alex Smith, and he would be the starter if not for his injury. Again, he's the 19th highest paid QB in the NFL. 

 

5 minutes ago, Chloe6124 said:

Not sure what is so hard to understand they ripped up the rookie deal and replaced it with this new 2 year deal. They basically have him franchise tag money but instead of it hitting possibly all next year they front loaded it to hit this year. 

 

So that is my point why would you give him franchise money unless you thought he was a sure thing,  and if you did think that, don't you think a completely unproven commodity would have jumped on 20 mill bonus and you could have added extra years?  Either way, I don't see how this is the best the club could do.  

 

Good for Jacoby man.  Shrewd freaking negotiator apparantly.

[csmopar]

55 minutes ago, Nickster said:

Well man OK, no I'm not worried about Irsay's money at all.  But what if he sucks?  He is going to be in essence de facto, not de jure the SIXTH HIGHEST PAID PLAYER IN THE HISTORY OF NFL FOOTBALL NEXT YEAR.  What the farq for?

 

Again, if they think this guy is a no doubter then why not sign him for more years?

 

Couldn't cap space be used for extra pieces later?

I'm just gonna say this, you're new here and you're arguing with the one member on this forum that literally could go on ESPN and other medias and know 1000 times more about the salary cap than MOST of their current talking heads.  Superman knows his stuff when it comes to the cap and how it works, he's proven that many times over the years.

Plus, you're missing a KEY thing, this wasn't just for Brissett, with Luck out, and thus his salary cap hit, we were WELL short of the 90% rule. We pretty much had to throw money at someone.