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Brissett Extended (Merge)


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2 minutes ago, Nickster said:

So that is 

 

 

So that is my point why would you give him franchise money unless you thought he was a sure thing,  and if you did think that, don't you think a completely unproven commodity would have jumped on 20 mill bonus and you could have added extra years?  Either way, I don't see how this is the best the club could do.  

 

Good for Jacoby man.  Shrewd freaking negotiator apparantly.

He didn’t get  franchise  QB money. Yes maybe for one year but that isn’t making a long term commitment. It also takes some stress of of him this season. He isn’t going to have to go out there with all the pressure of thinking he is a free agent and has to perform. 

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Just now, Nickster said:

why would you give him franchise money

 

They didn't. This contract is well below what franchise level QBs are getting right now. Less than half.

 

Quote

don't you think a completely unproven commodity would have jumped on 20 mill bonus and you could have added extra years?

 

What good does extra years do? To be honest, I don't doubt that they could have agreed to a longer term contract, but I only wanted to see them add one year myself. I'm not sure JB is anything more than a bridge QB. I think this contract represents that value. If he's better than that, they have another summer to work on a new deal. If he's not the guy, they have another year to replace him, and/or let him compete with his replacement. 

 

The one year extension is exactly what I thought they should do. The value came in higher than I thought it would have, but it's nowhere near the level that would cause me any concern. 

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1 minute ago, csmopar said:

I'm just gonna say this, you're new here and you're arguing with the one member on this forum that literally could go on ESPN and other medias and know 1000 times more about the salary cap than MOST of their current talking heads.  Superman knows his stuff when it comes to the cap and how it works, he's proven that many times over the years.

Plus, you're missing a KEY thing, this wasn't just for Brissett, with Luck out, and thus his salary cap hit, we were WELL short of the 90% rule. We pretty much had to throw money at someone.

I get that, it just seems that it could have been spread around.  As far as I know it's the signing bonus over a that is the only think clubs are on the hook for the cap.  

 

 

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2 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

They didn't. This contract is well below what franchise level QBs are getting right now. Less than half.

 

 

What good does extra years do? To be honest, I don't doubt that they could have agreed to a longer term contract, but I only wanted to see them add one year myself. I'm not sure JB is anything more than a bridge QB. I think this contract represents that value. If he's better than that, they have another summer to work on a new deal. If he's not the guy, they have another year to replace him, and/or let him compete with his replacement. 

 

The one year extension is exactly what I thought they should do. The value came in higher than I thought it would have, but it's nowhere near the level that would cause me any concern. 

I agree with you about him being a bridge.  That's why I'd have liked to see them sign up other guys for more money.

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1 minute ago, Nickster said:

I get that, it just seems that it could have been spread around.  As far as I know it's the signing bonus over a that is the only think clubs are on the hook for the cap.  

 

 

Spread around to where? We're pretty set with who we have, no other available FAs are this point are anywhere near as beneficial as locking in a QB this year, plus its about hedging your bet. Say Brissett plays balls out this year, has a Mahommes type year, then what do you do?  Now, he's locked up not only for this year and next, but should he want to bolt, you have the tag for 2 years. So really, its a win/win for both parties. 

1 minute ago, Nickster said:

I agree with you about him being a bridge.  That's why I'd have liked to see them sign up other guys for more money.

What other guys?  You know this ain't Madden right?

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They did not affect the cap in any way that will hurt the team.   Like I said, this is just spending Irsay's money.   It's good will with Brissett and it doesn't leave us hurting next season if Brissett is good.  I really like this move.  

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5 hours ago, csmopar said:

Plus, his work ethic speaks for itself. First one in the door, first one on the practice field and last to leave, every day.

 

If he keeps it up throughout his career, he'd be doing the same thing every other top level QB in the league does.  But for now, he's trying to earn trust.  Both of coaches and team mates.

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9 minutes ago, Nickster said:

I get that, it just seems that it could have been spread around.  As far as I know it's the signing bonus over a that is the only think clubs are on the hook for the cap.  

 

I don't know the structure details of this yet, but it sounds like it will have at least $5m guaranteed in 2020. Let's say he's awful in 2019 and they don't want him anymore, they'll be on the hook for another $5m in 2020. That's what the Jags are paying Blake Bortles. 

 

8 minutes ago, Nickster said:

I agree with you about him being a bridge.  That's why I'd have liked to see them sign up other guys for more money.

 

They're still ~$40m under the cap for 2019, and probably more than $100m under the cap for 2020. This contract isn't preventing them from doing anything they want to do moving forward.

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Jacoby Brissett Avoided Using Agent for Colts Contract:+

'Don’t Want Someone Bulls---ing on My Behalf

 

Brissett noted on Tuesday that he negotiated his new contract solo and continued the practice of not using an agent that dates back to his rookie year. 

 

https://www.si.com/nfl/2019/09/03/jacoby-brissett-no-agent-colts-contract-extension-quarterback

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3 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

I don't know the structure details of this yet, but it sounds like it will have at least $5m guaranteed in 2020. Let's say he's awful in 2019 and they don't want him anymore, they'll be on the hook for another $5m in 2020. That's what the Jags are paying Blake Bortles. 

 

 

They're still ~$40m under the cap for 2019, and probably more than $100m under the cap for 2020. This contract isn't preventing them from doing anything they want to do moving forward.

 

 

Hey I guess things could be worse.  Like paying Blake Bortles money.

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16 minutes ago, csmopar said:

Spread around to where? We're pretty set with who we have, no other available FAs are this point are anywhere near as beneficial as locking in a QB this year, plus its about hedging your bet. Say Brissett plays balls out this year, has a Mahommes type year, then what do you do?  Now, he's locked up not only for this year and next, but should he want to bolt, you have the tag for 2 years. So really, its a win/win for both parties. 

What other guys?  You know this ain't Madden right?

Well TY.  Castanzo.  Moore.

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35 minutes ago, Nickster said:

So that is 

 

 

So that is my point why would you give him franchise money unless you thought he was a sure thing,  and if you did think that, don't you think a completely unproven commodity would have jumped on 20 mill bonus and you could have added extra years?  Either way, I don't see how this is the best the club could do.  

 

Good for Jacoby man.  Shrewd freaking negotiator apparantly.

 

It's not franchise money.  Franchise QB's are going for 25 to 30 million a year these days.  

 

The reason they did it is all about leverage.  If he turns out to be good in a contract year then JB has the leverage as he can just let a bidding war develop over him.  (And bidding wars on good QB's get big.)  Look what Kirk Cousins did with his leverage, got himself the #6 highest paid QB on a 100% guaranteed deal.  In any other situation, Cousins' talent doesn't warrant the pay he's getting, but Cousins has been masterful at leveraging his position into a lot more money then he would otherwise warrant.  

 

If the opposite happens and he's not the guy, most of the guaranteed money is likely front end loaded because Ballard usually does that anyways.  So if we cut him it would likely only be for about 5M in dead money.  

 

This signing is $15M dollar insurance policy against JB going into long term contract negotiations with all of the leverage.  If we're winning with JB and convinced he can take us to the SB with him being in a contract year he could Kirk Cousin us.  

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1 minute ago, jvan1973 said:

Like who?

Ty.  Castanzo.  Moore.  Anyone else that you thought you would like to resign would probably like a little more jingle jangle in their pockets. 

 

If this was for good will then I think others would be interested in some of Jacoby's 28 extra mill.

1 minute ago, Valpo2004 said:

 

It's not franchise money.  Franchise QB's are going for 25 to 30 million a year these days.  

 

The reason they did it is all about leverage.  If he turns out to be good in a contract year then JB has the leverage as he can just let a bidding war develop over him.  (And bidding wars on good QB's get big.)  Look what Kirk Cousins did with his leverage, got himself the #6 highest paid QB on a 100% guaranteed deal.  In any other situation, Cousins' talent doesn't warrant the pay he's getting, but Cousins has been masterful at leveraging his position into a lot more money then he would otherwise warrant.  

 

If the opposite happens and he's not the guy, most of the guaranteed money is likely front end loaded because Ballard usually does that anyways.  So if we cut him it would likely only be for about 5M in dead money.  

 

This signing is $15M dollar insurance policy against JB going into long term contract negotiations with all of the leverage.  

Couldn't you franchise him in that case?

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2 minutes ago, Nickster said:

Ty.  Castanzo.  Moore.  Anyone else that you thought you would like to resign would probably like a little more jingle jangle in their pockets. 

 

If this was for good will then I think others would be interested in some of Jacoby's 28 extra mill.

AC will come. Moore was just extended and was made the highest paid slot corner in the league. He is here the next five seasons.Ballard is going to be handing out a ton of money the next six months. 

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2 minutes ago, Nickster said:

Ty.  Castanzo.  Moore.  Anyone else that you thought you would like to resign would probably like a little more jingle jangle in their pockets. 

 

 

Moore is done. TY isn't up until after 2020. AC is probably on the way, and if not, he'll be a franchise candidate.

 

JB's contract doesn't prevent the Colts from doing anything else they want.

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3 minutes ago, Nickster said:

Ty.  Castanzo.  Moore.  Anyone else that you thought you would like to resign would probably like a little more jingle jangle in their pockets. 

 

If this was for good will then I think others would be interested in some of Jacoby's 28 extra mill.

Couldn't you franchise him in that case?

Um.. Moore just got his extension and is the highest paid CB in the league.

Ty is still under contract for next year and still one of the top paid WRs...

AC will get his in due time, but a lot depends on if he can stay healthy. Colts may look to draft his replacement.

Either way, we're sitting at over 110 million UNDER the cap for next year, nearly 40 million left this year, we can sign all those guys and more and still be under the cap. You are making something of nothing dude.

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12 minutes ago, Nickster said:

Ty.  Castanzo.  Moore.  Anyone else that you thought you would like to resign would probably like a little more jingle jangle in their pockets. 

 

If this was for good will then I think others would be interested in some of Jacoby's 28 extra mill.

Couldn't you franchise him in that case?

 

What if he's not worth franchise tag money?  What if you need to use the tag on someone else?  Castanzo or Ebron?

 

Franchise tag puts him at like 32 million.  What if he's only worth 25?  

 

What if you want him to hang around 1 more year to break in a rookie but don't want to long term deal him.  

 

If cap space was an issue with the Colts I would be more questioning of this, but Cap Space is something we have plenty of.  Makes sense to use it as an insurance policy on the most important position on the field.  

 

And again we can cut him if we don't like him.  

 

 

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3 minutes ago, Valpo2004 said:

 

What if he's not worth franchise tag money?  What if you need to use the tag on someone else?  Castanzo or Ebron?

 

Franchise tag puts him at like 32 million.  What if he's only worth 25?  

 

What if you want him to hang around 1 more year to break in a rookie but don't want to long term deal him.  

 

If cap space was an issue with the Colts I would be more questioning of this, but Cap Space is something we have plenty of.  Makes sense to use it as an insurance policy on the most important position on the field.  

 

 

 

Well I'm trying to think of what kind of season you'd have to have at QB to be worth 25 and not 32.  I mean I would think that margin would be pretty small.

 

What I am saying is that he would have to be pretty good to lock up at 25.  Probably good enough to keep.

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4 minutes ago, Valpo2004 said:

 

What if he's not worth franchise tag money?  What if you need to use the tag on someone else?  Castanzo or Ebron?

 

Franchise tag puts him at like 32 million.  What if he's only worth 25?  

 

What if you want him to hang around 1 more year to break in a rookie but don't want to long term deal him.  

 

If cap space was an issue with the Colts I would be more questioning of this, but Cap Space is something we have plenty of.  Makes sense to use it as an insurance policy on the most important position on the field.  

 

 

The bolded is one aspect that makes this a good extension.  If he is good but not great and the Colts draft a QB, it would give the rookie a chance to learn while not putting the team in a lost season scenario.   The Colts are currently in a win now situation.   The team has been built well.   I don't want to go through a couple seasons with Hoyer and what we know he could give us.   Brissetts ceiling is higher than Hoyers right now.   We have seen enough of him to know he is not the savior.   Jury is still out on Brissett.

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5 minutes ago, Nickster said:

 

Well I'm trying to think of what kind of season you'd have to have at QB to be worth 25 and not 32.  I mean I would think that margin would be pretty small.

 

That's the difference between Alex Smith and Aaron Rodgers.  If Brissett is Alex Smith and we're going to pay him to game manage us, we can't afford to pay him like he's elite.  

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1 minute ago, Nickster said:

Hoyer for 9 mill.

Right now, knowing what you know, would you take Hoyer as your starter or Brissett?   Hoyer has the experience and a career 83 QB rating.  Not horrible for a journeyman backup.   Brissett has the higher ceiling right now in my eyes though.  He's also been on the team for a few years and has the familiarity with the players.   

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7 hours ago, shastamasta said:

 

Not per year. He was scheduled to make $2M this year and be a FA next year. Now he has a two-year deal for $30M that covers this year and next...thus the $28M in additional salary...which is a decent amount of money for a largely unproven player (at least it was until Brissett got it...now it's apparently nothing).

 

It basically works out like a one-year $28M extension...with $20M gtd. They will have some cap flexibility to put some of that in this year.

 

Having slept on it...I might have been a bit too harsh. It's an unprecedented situation all around. I don't love it...but I want to see what he can do in the offense now. They seem to believe in him.

If he doesnt work out, hes cut at the end of this year and onlybon the books for 5M next year.

  I dont love the situation either, but basically for 20M a year, we have a promising young starter AND the best available vet (imo) wrapped up for at least 2 years   Not bad on short notice i think.  

This gives Ballard time to figure this out and still gives us a good chance to be very competitive (at the very least).

  I see what you mean, but this protects us if JB goes off and would be a 25+M guy at year-end and we're at square 1 with not much to go on.

  Crazy thing all around.

 

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11 minutes ago, Myles said:

Right now, knowing what you know, would you take Hoyer as your starter or Brissett?   Hoyer has the experience and a career 83 QB rating.  Not horrible for a journeyman backup.   Brissett has the higher ceiling right now in my eyes though.  He's also been on the team for a few years and has the familiarity with the players.   

 

I hate that choice to be honest with you, but I'm leaning Brissett on a very short leash.  I think the O is talented.

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1 minute ago, Nickster said:

 

I hate that choice to be honest with you, but I'm leaning Brissett on a very short leash.  I think the O is talented.

I agree.   I think the chance of Brisset putting in a 30TD 12 INT season is better than Hoyer doing it.   If Hoyer had been on the team for a few years, I may choose him.   

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43 minutes ago, WoolMagnet said:

If he doesnt work out, hes cut at the end of this year and onlybon the books for 5M next year.

  I dont love the situation either, but basically for 20M a year, we have a promising young starter AND the best available vet (imo) wrapped up for at least 2 years   Not bad on short notice i think.  

This gives Ballard time to figure this out and still gives us a good chance to be very competitive (at the very least).

  I see what you mean, but this protects us if JB goes off and would be a 25+M guy at year-end and we're at square 1 with not much to go on.

  Crazy thing all around.

 

 

I get it...but they had him for two years regardless. They are spending as much money as they would have if they just franchised him.  

 

If he hadn't work out...they wouldn't have any dead money and they would have saved the money for this year. 

 

But now...I don't think there is any way they aren't either keeping or trading Brissett next offseason (that last part has me hopeful..though unlikely). Releasing him won't be an option...short of his arm falling off. That second year not being a franchise tag is about the only thing of real value here...and I don't see them wasting that. 

 

But I am with you...just unprecedented situation. I can't recall a franchise QB retiring two weeks before the season...and I can't recall a backup QB suddenly getting a huge raise because of it.

 

Ultimately, I am not crazy about Brissett as the starting QB...and I hope he proves me very wrong.

 

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43 minutes ago, Myles said:

I agree.   I think the chance of Brisset putting in a 30TD 12 INT season is better than Hoyer doing it.   If Hoyer had been on the team for a few years, I may choose him.   

 

We are not in a good spot unless Jacoby is pretty good.  I am hopeful but wouldn't put money on it.  Reich seems to have a QB friendly scheme.

 

He's got to get rid of it. Get the ball out Jacoby.

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1 minute ago, Nickster said:

 

We are not in a good spot unless Jacoby is pretty good.  I am hopeful but wouldn't put money on it.  Reich seems to have a QB friendly scheme.

 

He's got to get rid of it. Get the ball out Jacoby.

Last year Luck improved to the sixth fastest at getting the ball out. He was close to last. Reichs scheme will  probably help with this.

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1 hour ago, Nickster said:

 

We are not in a good spot unless Jacoby is pretty good.  I am hopeful but wouldn't put money on it.  Reich seems to have a QB friendly scheme.

 

He's got to get rid of it. Get the ball out Jacoby.

I’d venture to say we have not seen the Jacoby Brissett at his top of his game just yet. That coaching staff in 2017 was beyond abysmal 

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I think it was smart to extend Brissett. Even smarter that he’s locked in for 2 years rather than a long term deal. Win for both sides because obviously the Colts staff wants to see him succeed but through a shorter window. After 1-2 seasons we may be able to draft another young QB if Brissett can’t make the playoffs. Side note, does anyone get rubbed the wrong way when listening to Brissett? He just seems like he’s a bit of a jerk to talk to. 

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9 minutes ago, pgt_rob said:

I think it was smart to extend Brissett. Even smarter that he’s locked in for 2 years rather than a long term deal. Win for both sides because obviously the Colts staff wants to see him succeed but through a shorter window. After 1-2 seasons we may be able to draft another young QB if Brissett can’t make the playoffs. Side note, does anyone get rubbed the wrong way when listening to Brissett? He just seems like he’s a bit of a jerk to talk to. 

Stephen Holder mentioned he hopes JB never changes. He goes he don’t take crap. I haven’t listened to the locker room interview from today yet. He was great on the pay mcafee show today. 

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