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Chloe6124

Brissett Extended (Merge)

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23 minutes ago, Lennon1940 said:

 

Culpepper is a pretty good comp. Winston as well. He most reminds me of Bortles though. Big body, big arm, and can run when he needs to. 

 

I don't see McNabb though. McNabb was far shiftier in the pocket than JB. 

It's tough to say and I'm not taking 2017 into account much.  

I'm hoping we can compare him to Steve Young.

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10 hours ago, dthss86 said:

 

 

Hes making less money then Dalton. Its not a lot

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On 9/2/2019 at 5:00 PM, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Anybody that thinks we should tank is off their rocker. This isn't 2011 where we had a crappy roster. We have a good roster and telling guys like TY Hilton, Eric Ebron, Mack, Nelson, Hooker, Houston, and Leonard to tank is just stupid. Give Brissett a chance.

You always excel at perspective CBE. It's why you're one of my favorite posters & a must read poster brother. 

On 9/2/2019 at 6:16 PM, 2006Coltsbestever said:

This is part of the moving on process from Luck and showing the fans the team is moving on. This had to be done IMO.

Exactly man. Our only logical option without inciting massive fanbase panic this calendar yr. 

On 9/2/2019 at 11:14 PM, krunk said:

We should be okay with JB as long as we keep a balanced football team that is able to run, pass and play good defense.  I think the season will be worth watching.

I always trust your judgement brother, even if right now it's more intuition than direct empirical evidence right now. 

On 9/2/2019 at 11:23 PM, krunk said:

I think he's at least as good as Dak Prescott talent wise.  Maybe even better and that's good enough to get you in the playoffs.  I think that's the type of QB he is.  And especially with a good cast around him.

Dak is a good comparison to Jacoby AKA game manager. Yep, all Brissett has to do is not turn the ball over, take your strategic end zone shots, & hand the ball off-- just to keep opposing defenses honest. 

On 9/3/2019 at 7:04 AM, lollygagger8 said:

Good for both sides on the contract, and good job getting Hoyer as backup. (certainly best available) 

 

It would be great to have a banner of Brissett on the side of the stadium now. 

 

Side note: I'm not sure if they'll carry 3 QB's, but I'm not sure Chad Kelly wouldn't get plucked from the PS if they try to stash him there after the 2nd game if he took Walker's spot. 

Precisely Lollygagger8, I value Hoyer's experience & his ability to be a calm sounding board for Jacoby thru choppy waters this season. 

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10 minutes ago, southwest1 said:

You always excel at perspective CBE. It's why you're one of my favorite posters & a must read poster brother. 

Exactly man. Our only logical option without inciting massive fanbase panic this calendar yr. 

I always trust your judgement brother, even if right now it's more intuition than direct empirical evidence right now. 

Dak is a good comparison to Jacoby AKA game manager. Yep, all Brissett has to do is not turn the ball over, take your strategic end zone shots, & hand the ball off-- just to keep opposing defenses honest. 

Precisely Lollygagger8, I value Hoyer's experience & his ability to be a calm sounding board for Jacoby thru choppy waters this season. 

Interesting tid bit today that JB and Hoyer are good friends. They should work well together.

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6 hours ago, Myles said:

I think all  teams do.   You at least take notice and do your due diligence.  

 

The 'good' ones will. How did Green Bay get Aaron Rodgers with Favre still on the squad and not having to trade up?

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Just now, Chloe6124 said:

Interesting tid bit today that JB and Hoyer are good friends. They should work well together.

 

Yes.  They were both Tommy Brady's backup QB at some (different) point. Hoyer was a steadying influence for TB12.  He'll do the same for JB when necessary.

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2 minutes ago, ColtsBlueFL said:

 

Yes.  They were both Tommy Brady's backup QB at some (different) point. Hoyer was a steadying influence for TB12.  He'll do the same for JB when necessary.

It’s more then that.  They met at the KY Derby and were roommates there. Hoyer actually called him and congratulated him on being a starter. There is a actual friendship there.

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On 9/3/2019 at 7:57 AM, Jared Cisneros said:

With Luck's retirement, Ballard fixed the QB situation the best he could. I think we'll get 7-8 wins this year. As many have said, Brissett has a nice team around him.

Hey there Jared, 

 

Always nice to see a post from you. You always make a ton of sense & you're funnier than hades to me when the mood hits you just right. All my favorite posters share a common thread: Intelligence & free flowing sarcasm. 

 

Yeah, 7 wins sounds about right for Jacoby. Anything else is gravy. Absolutely right bro...Brissett has a sweet surrounding cast around him. 

 

I hope everything is cool with ya my man. I'm gradually working my way back on the forum. Peace out. 

 

 

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1 hour ago, Chloe6124 said:

It’s more then that.  They met at the KY Derby and were roommates there. Hoyer actually called him and congratulated him on being a starter. There is a actual friendship there.

 

Yes, that's true. And Hoyer and JB were not TB12 backup's at the same time, but different times.  It's just a common thread between them that each were, which helped in the friendship bonding department when both were invited by TB12 to the Kentucky Derby, where the two met for the first time.

 

“He’s a special person,” Hoyer said Wednesday at the Indiana Farm Bureau Football Center. “I knew right away, just spending some time with him. He relates to people. He and I had a good time hanging out. He’s funny. He’s a people person. People gravitate towards him. There’s no doubt about that.”

 

Things everyone seems to say about JB.

 

Hoyer has a good feeling about joining the seventh franchise of his 11-year NFL career.

 

“It was an opportunity to come to a good organization, good team,” Hoyer said. “Obviously, I had known Jacoby a little bit, and I thought it would be a good opportunity to come here, help him out. It was a tough decision. You never really want to have to move your family, but when this opportunity came up, I didn’t want to pass it up.”

 

He will be a much bigger help to JB than CK, no question.

 

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I know I am being repetitive but I've watched enough tape on Brissett to keep pushing this simple conclusion.  Brissett will eat you with a clean pocket.  Almost any time I've seen the guy with a clean pocket it almost always ends in a completion or some type of big play.

 

His greatest problem is when the pocket is not clean and the pressures are being sent at him.  Which I'm not even going to make this a Brissett problem more than I am a young QB problem. Heck the year Luck got the lacerated spleen that's what a lot of teams were doing to him.  Just sitting back and dialing up a bunch of pressures.  And they did it because it was clearly effecting his throws and decision making.  I'm going to state again if Jacoby along with Nick Sirriani, Reich, and Marcus Brady get that issue ironed out I personally think he's going to have a really solid year.  He makes really solid reads and throws with a clean pocket.  You get that blitz thing under control to where he learns how to navigate through that and I think folks around here are going to be pretty satisfied with Brissett this year.  Just pay attention, yall know how I am when I keep bringing a point back up over an over again.

 

He shows signs of improvement here:

 

 

 

Give me more of this and I think he'll put up good numbers this year.  He  showed a lot of poise, steps up nicely against the blitz each time and finds his hot read.  The way the offense was designed in 2017 I'm not even sure he could quickly find where to go with the ball. Plus there wasn't much comfort level with the scheme.  Under Reich and Sirianni he's much more comfortable with the offense and where his reads are. Along with knowing how to navigate his body through the traffic.

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11 hours ago, ColtsBlueFL said:

 

Yes, but the player is now a satisfied participant. Not a disgruntled 'franchise tagged'  player. The tag is no longer a 'badge of honor' it once was.

 

 

Who would play, then... Hoyer?  Swag? {maybe he stays clean, and develops more} Or a new drafted QB?

 

 

Brissett is not a disgruntled player, and the tag is free to use on someone else if needed.

 

 

Not exactly the same, but 2 weeks before the 1999 season, Trent Green went out with serious injury for the year.  Kurt Warner (only football snaps were in Euro NFL and Arena league) took over. contract was redone with a pay increase for that year. After Warner led them top the Super Bowl title, he got a massive contract to be the Rams starting QB, Trent Green came back for 1 more year as his backup (then was moved to be KC's starter).

 

 

He might.  The Colts have a good team.  Some football greats in the know say Brissett has the "IT" factor.  That pied piper ability to get the other guys to follow and play a notch above, as a collective.  With this more talented group and the improved coaching, JB might not only prove you wrong, but Dick Vermeil as well who said about about Warner's feat, 'It was never done before, and will never be again.' It's a lot to ask, for certain. But never, say never.

 

Even Franck Reich had great success as backup with great success starting games behind (an injured) Jim Kelly. And he helped Nick Foles to great success when Carson Wentz went out.  In my mind, I'll be more surprised if JB lays and egg rather than excels this year. Just my :2c:

 

 

 

Some counter points...Warner got money AFTER the season...as you said. If JB has a great season...do we really expect Ballard to have him play under that current contract through next year? No...he will likely give him a big extension...which he could have done anyways.

 

As for the franchise tag point...I will say...what good does still having it when the end result is a disgruntled player? I have heard others say it delays the ability to use it on JB...but again...why would they use it in two years if that is the end result? 

 

Also...are we to believe that JB would actually be a "disgruntled player" if he got the franchise tag? I think that seems to be a stretch...and would fly in the face of nearly everything said about him as a teammate and in the locker room. 

 

The disgruntled guys seem to RBs who (rightfully) want some type of long-term security before they are done in a few years (or sooner).

 

Brissett having the "IT" factor...seems like a nice way to say he hasn't shown it on the field yet but we like him. That ability to have other players raise their game a bit wasn't present in 2017. Sure the coaching staff was different then...but I am not willing to give him the benefit of the doubt entirely for that season. Doesn't mean that's who he is or will be...just that it's the data we have...until proven otherwise.

 

And while intangible qualities are great...talent and performance is ultimately what will drive this offense.

 

I have faith in Reich as a HC...but he's not a miracle worker. Foles is a talented QB...and had proven to be so before he stepped in for Wentz. The scheme helped a lot but Foles became very good under pressure and in clutch situations...something that JB struggled with when he was starting. 

 

I don't think he lays an egg...looking at reasonable expectations...but I will know a lot more about where he is after several weeks.  

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12 hours ago, ColtStrong2013 said:

 

I didn't realize you were a member of the scouting department...

Just what in the hell do you think these forums are for then? Discussing rudimentary facts and posting links? 

 

"Brissett threw 7 picks."

 

"The Colts played in a dome that day."

 

"My name's Trevor! What's yours!?"

 

 

Don't be that guy...

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4 hours ago, OffensivelyPC said:

Just what in the hell do you think these forums are for then? Discussing rudimentary facts and posting links? 

 

"Brissett threw 7 picks."

 

"The Colts played in a dome that day."

 

"My name's Trevor! What's yours!?"

 

 

Don't be that guy...

 

mark wahlberg relax GIF

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Another one of the people that do their homework has high praise for Brissett:

 

https://www.si.com/nfl/2019/09/04/aaron-rodgers-matt-lafleur-packers-new-offense-texans-tunsil-stills-trade-week-1-preview

 


 

Quote

 

TWEET ELABORATION

 

This was written before the Texans traded for Tunsil and Stills, but I’ll stick with it. Jacoby Brissett is a big strong pocket passer who has mobility to fall back on and has shown the acuity to work later into his progressions. Factor in outstanding arm strength and you have almost the complete foundation for long-term success.

 

 

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7 hours ago, shastamasta said:

 

Some counter points...Warner got money AFTER the season...as you said.

 

 

Yes, the big contract came after. However, there was a contract change for Warner once he became the starter.  The Rams had him as an ERFA for 1999.  These are almost universally one year, minimal salary, non guaranteed contracts. You'll see his contact was renegotiated, and a new contract for $250k base + $500k bonus became his pay.

 

https://overthecap.com/player/kurt-warner/8574/

 

Then made Warner an  ERFA again (he was still eligible) while they hammered out his big deal to follow.  The Colts cannot place ERFA on JB as he has more than 2 years service.   So at the end of the year he will be Unrestricted Free Agent.  Seems only fair to give him a pay increase to go with his job responsibility increase.  It likely makes for a better atmosphere for possible future contract negotiations.

 

7 hours ago, shastamasta said:

If JB has a great season...do we really expect Ballard to have him play under that current contract through next year? No...he will likely give him a big extension...which he could have done anyways.

 

JB could be somewhat miffed at having balled out for a paltry 2 million and decide to test FA, where someone would very likely outbid Ballard/Colts. (how many FA players did our fans want, only to say WOW when the massive $ another team gave them became known?)

 

7 hours ago, shastamasta said:

 

As for the franchise tag point...I will say...what good does still having it when the end result is a disgruntled player? I have heard others say it delays the ability to use it on JB...but again...why would they use it in two years if that is the end result?

 

The point (Exclusive Franchise Tag) is to keep the player in house while negotiating (supposedly in good faith) for a long term deal equitable to both.  Hopefully it gets done before the games begin, too. Players want the market (FA) to determine their worth, not a 1 year fixed $ deal that has no guarantees beyond that one year. If they get injured on a Franchise Tag year, it could really hurt their long term contracts going forward.

 

7 hours ago, shastamasta said:

Also...are we to believe that JB would actually be a "disgruntled player" if he got the franchise tag? I think that seems to be a stretch...and would fly in the face of nearly everything said about him as a teammate and in the locker room.

 

Football is one thing, business is another. Players are good at staying out of other players business.  Especially $$$ and contracts. Would you be disgruntled to some degree if you were told you had a major responsibility and job duty increase at work, but there would be no pay increase in compensation for it?

 

7 hours ago, shastamasta said:

The disgruntled guys seem to RBs who (rightfully) want some type of long-term security before they are done in a few years (or sooner).

 

All players want long term deals, with high guarantees.  All of them.  Not all can get/demand them.  Colts and JB settled on a nice compromise.  But if he balls out in 2019, it's a safe bet an extension/renegotiation on the contract happens before the contract expires in 2020.

 

7 hours ago, shastamasta said:

Brissett having the "IT" factor...seems like a nice way to say he hasn't shown it on the field yet but we like him. That ability to have other players raise their game a bit wasn't present in 2017. Sure the coaching staff was different then...but I am not willing to give him the benefit of the doubt entirely for that season. Doesn't mean that's who he is or will be...just that it's the data we have...until proven otherwise.

 

And while intangible qualities are great...talent and performance is ultimately what will drive this offense.

 

JB does have to prove it.  But coaches will take a leader with a touch less talent over a loose cannon with a touch more talent most every time; if what they say after they retire from on field activities holds merit. If Bill Belichick take you #91 in round 3 overall in the draft, you likely have decent talent.

 

7 hours ago, shastamasta said:

I have faith in Reich as a HC...but he's not a miracle worker. Foles is a talented QB...and had proven to be so before he stepped in for Wentz. The scheme helped a lot but Foles became very good under pressure and in clutch situations...something that JB struggled with when he was starting. 

 

Foles has had an exceptional career, but almost as full of downs as well as ups. Throws 27 TD, then benched next season. Has totally horrific game vs Dallas in 2013, then throws 7 TD's next game. Etc. Oh, a 3rd round pick #81 overall.

 

Frank was likely the best backup QB ever in the NFL and knows what types of adjustments are needed from a both player and coaching standpoint.  He knows what he has in JB, as he did with Foles.

 

7 hours ago, shastamasta said:

 

I don't think he lays an egg...looking at reasonable expectations...but I will know a lot more about where he is after several weeks.  

 

Right now, I'm trusting guys like Parcells, Weis, Belichick,  Ballard, and Reich on Brissett.  Let's see how it goes.

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There was a story that Joel Erickson did about Brissett. He went to NE and to find more out about him. One of the longest tenured patriots told JB he didn’t ever want to see him with a bunch of backups. They all think JB can be a star in this league. Some QB get thrown into the fire. He did in 2017. Then he sat and waited his turn. His time is now and the team around him could not be better.

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45 minutes ago, OffensivelyPC said:

Use your head then.

 

I use my head as much as anyone on this forum... I spout my opinion as much as anyone on here and back it with plenty of logic. I smart off sarcastically as well, and if you can't handle that then you should change your handle to "Offended" because you are salty over nothing...

 

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58 minutes ago, ColtsBlueFL said:

 

 

Right now, I'm trusting guys like Parcells, Weis, Belichick,  Ballard, and Reich on Brissett.  Let's see how it goes.

I am some, but not too much (grain of salt).   I have to think they are, in part, saying what is the "right" thing to do.   

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11 minutes ago, ColtStrong2013 said:

 

I use my head as much as anyone on this forum... I spout my opinion as much as anyone on here and back it with plenty of logic. I smart off sarcastically as well, and if you can't handle that then you should change your handle to "Offended" because you are salty over nothing...

 

I'm not salty.  I just pointed out that your post was as nonsensical as it was unnecessary and then made fun of it.  Someone giving an opinion on football players and then you saying, "Well you're not a scout," is...well, dumb.  No one is claiming to be one, we're all here to discuss football.  Anyway, this has gone on long enough and there's not much reason to derail the conversation any further than we have. 

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Im not too high on Hoyer but with this personnel that we have i think even he gives you a pretty decent shot if he was forced to play. Im sure this is the best personnel hes had.

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3 minutes ago, OffensivelyPC said:

I'm not salty.  I just pointed out that your post was as nonsensical as it was unnecessary and then made fun of it.  Someone giving an opinion on football players and then you saying, "Well you're not a scout," is...well, dumb.  No one is claiming to be one, we're all here to discuss football.  Anyway, this has gone on long enough and there's not much reason to derail the conversation any further than we have. 

 

And this whole conversation is on you... and unnecessary. So I guess we're practically the same right? Right... 

 

Good day.

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1 hour ago, ColtsBlueFL said:

 

Yes, the big contract came after. However, there was a contract change for Warner once he became the starter.  The Rams had him as an ERFA for 1999.  These are almost universally one year, minimal salary, non guaranteed contracts. You'll see his contact was renegotiated, and a new contract for $250k base + $500k bonus became his pay.

 

https://overthecap.com/player/kurt-warner/8574/

 

Then made Warner an  ERFA again (he was still eligible) while they hammered out his big deal to follow.  The Colts cannot place ERFA on JB as he has more than 2 years service.   So at the end of the year he will be Unrestricted Free Agent.  Seems only fair to give him a pay increase to go with his job responsibility increase.  It likely makes for a better atmosphere for possible future contract negotiations.

 

 

JB could be somewhat miffed at having balled out for a paltry 2 million and decide to test FA, where someone would very likely outbid Ballard/Colts. (how many FA players did our fans want, only to say WOW when the massive $ another team gave them became known?)

 

 

The point (Exclusive Franchise Tag) is to keep the player in house while negotiating (supposedly in good faith) for a long term deal equitable to both.  Hopefully it gets done before the games begin, too. Players want the market (FA) to determine their worth, not a 1 year fixed $ deal that has no guarantees beyond that one year. If they get injured on a Franchise Tag year, it could really hurt their long term contracts going forward.

 

 

Football is one thing, business is another. Players are good at staying out of other players business.  Especially $$$ and contracts. Would you be disgruntled to some degree if you were told you had a major responsibility and job duty increase at work, but there would be no pay increase in compensation for it?

 

 

All players want long term deals, with high guarantees.  All of them.  Not all can get/demand them.  Colts and JB settled on a nice compromise.  But if he balls out in 2019, it's a safe bet an extension/renegotiation on the contract happens before the contract expires in 2020.

 

 

JB does have to prove it.  But coaches will take a leader with a touch less talent over a loose cannon with a touch more talent most every time; if what they say after they retire from on field activities holds merit. If Bill Belichick take you #91 in round 3 overall in the draft, you likely have decent talent.

 

 

Foles has had an exceptional career, but almost as full of downs as well as ups. Throws 27 TD, then benched next season. Has totally horrific game vs Dallas in 2013, then throws 7 TD's next game. Etc. Oh, a 3rd round pick #81 overall.

 

Frank was likely the best backup QB ever in the NFL and knows what types of adjustments are needed from a both player and coaching standpoint.  He knows what he has in JB, as he did with Foles.

 

 

Right now, I'm trusting guys like Parcells, Weis, Belichick,  Ballard, and Reich on Brissett.  Let's see how it goes.

 

I just don't see the "JB being miffed" angle. The Colts have been very good to him...even prior to this new deal. He hasn't had to compete for his job at any point during his time here. 

 

Plenty of backups have to step in for starters leaving (for one reason or another) without getting more money immediately. QB is obviously a unique position...given its importance...but again...I just don't see what cause JB would have to be miffed at the Colts for not giving him a big raise (or placing the franchise tag on him after the season). Given the previous circumstances...where he was set to enter FA as an unproven backup QB (with maybe the upside to be a starter)...it's pretty incredible that he would even be in that position.

 

But ultimately, there are many people who see no downside to doing this...and I get that. So I won't waste anyone else's time debating the merits of it, from a football or business standpoint.

 

At this point, all we can do is trust those guys you named. But they aren't infallible...and the data and eye test we have (to date) should tell us to be anywhere from conservative to skeptical in our expectations...so that is what I am currently am. But that can obviously change...fairly quickly...I just want to see it. 

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3 hours ago, shastamasta said:

Plenty of backups have to step in for starters leaving (for one reason or another) without getting more money immediately.

 

In other situations, the starting QB is expected to return (unless traded, and how often is that?).  And the backups subbing may not be in their final year of their contract.  Luck is not returning, this or next year and beyond. JB is in final year of his contract.  Teams don't like their starter to hit FA.

 

Quote

QB is obviously a unique position...given its importance...but again...I just don't see what cause JB would have to be miffed at the Colts for not giving him a big raise

 

Vote of no confidence

 

Quote

 

(or placing the franchise tag on him after the season).

 

Security. The Franchise Tag is a one-year guaranteed contract and a multi-year deal would  guarantee up to three or four times the money.  And often Franchise tag is at less than FA or market value, so players really have come to despise it. 

 

Some fans too.  Let's ask @Superman about it...

 

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Because it doesn't matter. The Colts are cca. $50 millions under the cap. If not spent this $50M will roll over to next year. If Brissett's contract was structured like 15+15, then this year's cap hit would've grown by $7M, and next year's would've come down by $7M. Which means they could've rolled over only $43 instead of $50 ($7M less). There's no difference regarding the 2020 cap figures. More cap hit+more space vs less cap hit+less space.

 

The 2020 dead money doesnt matter 'cause they won't cut him. But anyway, it would be $12.5M.

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source.gif

 

Perhaps we should have waited until he actually earned something in a game before giving all that to him. That cap hit looks terrible. 

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53 minutes ago, Chloe6124 said:

I am actually surprised the 2020 cap hit is so big.

 

 

Won't matter. Colts aren't going to cut him.

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1 hour ago, Lennon1940 said:

source.gif

 

Perhaps we should have waited until he actually earned something in a game before giving all that to him. That cap hit looks terrible. 

Not really.   He isn't getting cut.   So it really doesn't matter

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On 9/2/2019 at 5:36 PM, TheMiz said:

I became a fan around 95, like most people in Indiana...

Which happens to be about the time I really started paying attention to football, since I was 12

 

My story is the same except replace 95 with 82

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1 hour ago, shakedownstreet said:

 

My story is the same except replace 95 with 82

 

1982 What a season that was.... 

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5 minutes ago, shakedownstreet said:

 

Just having a home team was all the motivation I needed :D

 

I grew watching those 1979-1983 years. Traumatizing for a young fan, but I remained loyal to the bone.

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21 minutes ago, MPStack said:

 

I grew watching those 1979-1983 years. Traumatizing for a young fan, but I remained loyal to the bone.

 

Without question.  A long period of darkness...

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Wow...not sure I can read 14 pages of this! Got the gist of it from the first couple of pages and random post here and there.

 

Sounds like a win win for both sides.

I feel positive for him. Had limited play in NE, but seem to be solid and was productive.

Came here,and a few days later was starting and playing with a dreadful O line. We all know how that went.

 

I am not to worried . He has had plenty of time during this off season during training camp , practices and etc to get into a rhythm and gel with the starters. He has gotten all the reps. Not sitting behind anyone. I am sure the staff has been preparing for a scenario going into the season with him. They have they're jobs for a reason, and they know a heck of a lot more than me and all of the other arm chair qb's,coaches GM's and etc...

 

Will there be bumps in the road? You bethcha. Give it time.  This is a real good team surrounding him and this coaching staff proved last year they know what they are doing.

 

I liked what he said during his locker room interview.

"I don’t want someone bull*******g on my behalf,"

Lets go Jacoby!!!

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