Brissett Extended (Merge)

[Creekside]

16 minutes ago, stitches said:

 

 

 it shows less confidence in what Brissett is

 

In my opinion you are reading too much into it.

 

This was first and foremost about paying Brissett for services this year. .... The Colts could not promote the man to general and pay him like a private.

 

Secondly, it secures Brissett's services beyond 5 months from now so they don't have to spend this year figuring out what they are going to do.

 

Like you yourself said, why sign him now to a long term expensive contract when they don't have to? ...........

 

Now they have a comfortable cushion and if Brissett meets or exceeds their expectations, they can lock him up long term next year without engaging in a bidding war with the rest of the league. 

[csmopar]

16 minutes ago, shastamasta said:

 

Still a bit under I believe.

 

$125,278,007 ($167M salary cap)

$144,842,359 ($177.8M salary cap)

$172,421,390 ($188.2M salary cap)

 

$442,541,756 + $20M for Brissett + $9M for Hoyer = $471,541,756

 

$471,541,756 / $533,000,000 = 88.4% 

 

They still have about $8M in cash spend to be at 90%...plus 90% of next year's cap of course.

 

 

 

 

Yeah, I knew we were close.  Is that counting Luck's cap hit? That's the other reason the Colts didn't go to arbitration and let Luck keep it, it would have come off the books most likely.

5 minutes ago, Jared Cisneros said:

With Luck's retirement, Ballard fixed the QB situation the best he could. I think we'll get 7-8 wins this year. As many have said, Brissett has a nice team around him.

Agreed, on both parts.  We hit 8/8 with what has happened, i'll be happy. I think with a top 15 pick and the draft capital we have, a trade up into the top 5 isn't out of the question

[shasta519]

35 minutes ago, stitches said:

With the risk of putting my foot in my mouth once again(since my prediction in the other thread seem rendered obsolete now), I guess Ballard doesn't exclude Jacoby being a bridge QB for us. It's practically a prove it/lets wait and see/bridge to new QB deal. It is short, basically a 1 year franchise tag year) tagged onto his current cheap 1 year he has left from his rookie contract. 

 

I don't mind it, but IMO it shows less confidence in what Brissett is, than I personally assumed they have having in mind the way they hype him in the media. It's good business IMO and relatively proportionate level of confidence in Jacoby for what he's shown in the league. 

 

I think Brissett is definitely the bridge QB for this year and next. I can't even think of a scenario where they part ways after this year. If they get someone they like in the draft...Hoyer would be the one to go.

[csmopar]

2 minutes ago, bhougland said:

 

8M to spend.  I would give it to Swag for 3 - 4 years; would probably be the steal of a lifetime.

Who's Swag?

[coltsfanej]

When the deal initially broke as a 2 year extension, I loved it. But since it only adds one year of service but adds $28 mil I'm not as crazy about it. Still it makes sense to give him a bump in pay and have him locked in. We have a ton of cap space so it's not like it hurts us to give him a bunch of money this year anyway, but I really loved the idea of having him 2 additional years at that price. 

[bhougland]

Just now, csmopar said:

Who's Swag?

 

The second coming of Brett Favre.

[compuls1v3]

12 hours ago, aaron11 said:

 

JB really hasnt done much either.   a few months ago everyone was saying hes not good enough to get much in a trade.

 

now hes the savior though...

Truth is, (and I'm on the Jacoby train), nobody knows for sure how he'll do,  thus making the anticipation for some of us that more exciting.  I guess we'll just have to wait and see!!

[shasta519]

3 minutes ago, csmopar said:

Yeah, I knew we were close.  Is that counting Luck's cap hit? That's the other reason the Colts didn't go to arbitration and let Luck keep it, it would have come off the books most likely.

Agreed, on both parts.  We hit 8/8 with what has happened, i'll be happy. I think with a top 15 pick and the draft capital we have, a trade up into the top 5 isn't out of the question

 

Pretty sure Luck's signing bonus was counted as cash back when he signed the deal.

 

Roster bonuses...on the other hand...I think do count each as cash spend in that year. So to your point...they stood nothing to gain by taking back $12M in cash from Luck...since they aren't likely to spend it anyways and the optics would look bad.

[Yoshinator]

4 minutes ago, bhougland said:

 

The second coming of Brett Favre.

Ok. So what's his name? lol.

[bhougland]

1 minute ago, Jared Cisneros said:

Ok. So what's his name? lol.

 

Machine gun Kelly

[Valpo2004]

This is probably a smart deal.  If JB plays well and the Colts want to hang onto him long term, without an extension he has zero reason to not to either force the Colts to use the franchise tag or test the open market.  

 

Colts arn't tied to him long term either way and knowing Ballard almost all the guaranteed money is probably up front so if they decide to move on from him, he can be cut without much cost.  

 

It also psychologically helps his confidence because the team just put a big vote of confidence in him.  

 

Even if he isn't our guy long term, if we drafted a QB to start we would have JB on contract for that QB's rookie year to give him time to learn. 

[shasta519]

6 minutes ago, coltsfanej said:

When the deal initially broke as a 2 year extension, I loved it. But since it only adds one year of service but adds $28 mil I'm not as crazy about it. Still it makes sense to give him a bump in pay and have him locked in. We have a ton of cap space so it's not like it hurts us to give him a bunch of money this year anyway, but I really loved the idea of having him 2 additional years at that price. 

 

That's pretty much where I have been...not much gained by doing this now...at least from a contract value standpoint. Makes a ton of sense for Brissett though...pretty crazy that he was a back up two weeks ago and now has a contract extension for $28M more. I hope he sends Luck a Christmas card every year.

[Valpo2004]

11 minutes ago, csmopar said:

Who's Swag?

 

Chad Kelly a nickname he sort of gave himself.  

 

The biggest knock on him was immaturity.  

 

I read a rumor that during draft interviews when asked why he would be a successful NFL QB he responded because he has swag.  

 

 

[Myles]

10 minutes ago, coltsfanej said:

When the deal initially broke as a 2 year extension, I loved it. But since it only adds one year of service but adds $28 mil I'm not as crazy about it. Still it makes sense to give him a bump in pay and have him locked in. We have a ton of cap space so it's not like it hurts us to give him a bunch of money this year anyway, but I really loved the idea of having him 2 additional years at that price. 

I agree.   I think it also builds on the good will the team and Brissett share.   If Brissett ends up being a top 10 QB for this team, signing him after 2020 shouldn't be as difficult.  

Using the cap space this season is a smart move.

[MPStack]

Just now, bhougland said:

 

Machine gun Kelly

[NewEra]

Sounds a bit steep for a back up forced to start. I'm not sold on Brissett at all but for the sake of our team wish him the best. 

2 minutes ago, Valpo2004 said:

 

Chad Kelly a nickname he sort of gave himself.  

 

The biggest knock on him was immaturity.  

 

I read a rumor that during draft interviews when asked why he would be a successful NFL QB he responded because he has swag.  

 

 

That's a real * bag move. Hope he grows out of that crap. 

[csmopar]

8 minutes ago, NewEra said:

Sounds a bit steep for a back up forced to start. I'm not sold on Brissett at all but for the sake of our team wish him the best. 

That's a real * move. Hope he grows out of that crap. 

It sounds like he has.  Plus, his work ethic speaks for itself. First one in the door, first one on the practice field and last to leave, every day. You don't do that if you're immature.

[aaron11]

30 million to Jacoby just because Luck retired.  he would have been lucky to get that if he left as a free agent

 

the money doesnt even matter much with this cap space we have, what im not crazy about is its a big commitment to JB and we dont even know if hes any good.

[csmopar]

1 minute ago, aaron11 said:

30 million to Jacoby just because Luck retired.  he would have been lucky to get that if he left as a free agent

 

the money doesnt even matter much with this cap space we have, what im not crazy about is its a big commitment to JB and we dont even know if hes any good.

that was my initial thought but really, its not.  The cap hit is barely any to cut him next year if he flops. and nearly nothing for year 3.

[Myles]

1 minute ago, aaron11 said:

 

 

the money doesnt even matter much with this cap space we have, what im not crazy about is its a big commitment to JB and we dont even know if hes any good.

But it is NOT a big commitment.   With the cap space we had this year, like you said, it is a non factor.   So we are not in bad shape even if we cut him after the season.   

In my opinion, the worst case scenario:

Brisset doesn't play great.   Colts go a different direction for next season and Brissett is relegated to the back up role again.  Thus giving us a good backup for 2020.  

 

2 minutes ago, csmopar said:

that was my initial thought but really, its not.  The cap hit is barely any to cut him next year if he flops. and nearly nothing for year 3.

I thought it was only a 2 year deal.   I don't think we have him past 2020.

[aaron11]

1 minute ago, csmopar said:

that was my initial thought but really, its not.  The cap hit is barely any to cut him next year if he flops. and nearly nothing for year 3.

i suppose thats true, if he really stinks it up they will cut ties.  it will get interesting if hes mediocre though.  i dont think hes going to suck either but that theres a good chance hes meh 

[csmopar]

2 minutes ago, Myles said:

But it is NOT a big commitment.   With the cap space we had this year, like you said, it is a non factor.   So we are not in bad shape even if we cut him after the season.   

In my opinion, the worst case scenario:

Brisset doesn't play great.   Colts go a different direction for next season and Brissett is relegated to the back up role again.  Thus giving us a good backup for 2020.  

 

I thought it was only a 2 year deal.   I don't think we have him past 2020.

I thought the extension was 2 years ontop of this year? Either way, its still essentially a 1 year prove it deal

[Myles]

Just now, csmopar said:

I thought the extension was 2 years ontop of this year? 

That's what I thought at first, then I seen this:

 

Brissett was in the final year of his four-year, $3.41 million rookie deal that included a 2019 base salary of $2 million. The new two-year deal replaces his rookie contract and runs through the 2020 season.

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/27523507/source-colts-qb-brissett-agree-30m-deal

 

I wish they would not call it an extension because I always think of that as additional on the current deal.   

[Coffeedrinker]

16 hours ago, NorthernBlue said:

Can you explain why you think this way? What part of Jacoby's game does it seem like he is an average Quarterback?

 

You might be right, but me personally, I see the perfect frame, a strong arm, good mobility and incredible toughness in him. The questions for me are with his touch on short throws and accuracy on intermidiate ones. If he can answer those two questions, I think we'll be fine at QB.

 

Also, the Browns of 4 years ago would have LOVED an average QB  

I don't know if this was answered.  But, for me, the reason I don't think Jacoby is a long term answer is because he cannot handle pressure... and not just the pressure of a pass rush, but situational pressure.  I agree the Colts team now is better than the Colts team in 2017 but even in 2017, with a bad team Brissett had the lead 8 times heading into the 4th quarter and 7 times the Colts lost the game and that was in large part because Jacoby did not complete a 3rd down pass to keep a drive alive, or he threw an INT (he only threw 7 INTs but 5 of them where in the 4th quarter or OT and 5 were when the game was ties or the Colts were trailing).  So, he doesn't play his best when the game is on the line.

 

Now, I will fully admit, it's possible he has gotten better in that category, that is what this season will show us.  I think the current Colts team is good enough for an 8-8 or maybe even a 9-7 record.  I think if the Colts had an elite QB then 11-13 wins would have been not only possible but a disappointment if not achieved.

[PrincetonTiger]

40 minutes ago, csmopar said:

Who's Swag?

Chad Kelly

[Pacergeek]

With Brissett as our starting QB, at best, this is a 6 win team. I have no idea where all of this false optimism is coming from. Last time we saw Jacoby play, only two years ago, he sucked. I'm not buying this narrative of how Jacoby is all of a sudden an above average NFL QB. 

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

4 minutes ago, Coffeedrinker said:

I don't know if this was answered.  But, for me, the reason I don't think Jacoby is a long term answer is because he cannot handle pressure... and not just the pressure of a pass rush, but situational pressure.  I agree the Colts team now is better than the Colts team in 2017 but even in 2017, with a bad team Brissett had the lead 8 times heading into the 4th quarter and 7 times the Colts lost the game and that was in large part because Jacoby did not complete a 3rd down pass to keep a drive alive, or he threw an INT (he only threw 7 INTs but 5 of them where in the 4th quarter or OT and 5 were when the game was ties or the Colts were trailing).  So, he doesn't play his best when the game is on the line.

 

Now, I will fully admit, it's possible he has gotten better in that category, that is what this season will show us.  I think the current Colts team is good enough for an 8-8 or maybe even a 9-7 record.  I think if the Colts had an elite QB then 11-13 wins would have been not only possible but a disappointment if not achieved.

He lost a lot of those leads because of bad coaching. Chuck was so predictable. If there was three receivers on the field we threw it. If there was two receivers we ran it. Chuck was a very bad coach.

[throwing BBZ]

7 hours ago, shastamasta said:

 

Na...$28M for one year is absolutely a good amount of money for an unproven player who was a back up two weeks ago. That's more than the franchise tag for QBs this past year. 

 

The intangible stuff...is subjective...and quite frankly overblown at times. Besides, they have done nothing but give JB a vote of confidence all season by commiting to him as the starter this year...that message was already there. If $28M in the bank makes him take his game to an not-yet-seen level...then awesome...but we know that's not really how it works.

 

Ultimately it's not my money...so I don't really care...I am just arguing over the merits of the deal. I hope JB proves me wrong...especially about whether he can be a legit NFL QB and win games. 

 

  Jacoby already showed us in 2017 he can be a legit NFL QB.
 Anyone that believes he hasn't improved his knowledge and abilities since is just Out There.
Ballard said he thought he was a top 20 QB now. Maybe that is his ceiling, maybe not. It is ok to be wrong. And ok to say Show me.

[Valpo2004]

12 minutes ago, Coffeedrinker said:

I don't know if this was answered.  But, for me, the reason I don't think Jacoby is a long term answer is because he cannot handle pressure... and not just the pressure of a pass rush, but situational pressure.  I agree the Colts team now is better than the Colts team in 2017 but even in 2017, with a bad team Brissett had the lead 8 times heading into the 4th quarter and 7 times the Colts lost the game and that was in large part because Jacoby did not complete a 3rd down pass to keep a drive alive, or he threw an INT (he only threw 7 INTs but 5 of them where in the 4th quarter or OT and 5 were when the game was ties or the Colts were trailing).  So, he doesn't play his best when the game is on the line.

 

Now, I will fully admit, it's possible he has gotten better in that category, that is what this season will show us.  I think the current Colts team is good enough for an 8-8 or maybe even a 9-7 record.  I think if the Colts had an elite QB then 11-13 wins would have been not only possible but a disappointment if not achieved.

 

I think you have to give him a chance to see. 

 

That 2017 team was essentially the same one that Andrew Luck with 3 and a half years of starting experience went 8-8 with the year before.  And Luck played well but it was just a flat out bad team.  That was after the leftovers from the Polian era had retired but Grigson's draft picks and free agents where not doing diddly.  

 

Jacoby took over that team without the chance to learn the playbook or practice with the 1's and had like 1 game of starting experience with the Pats and was in his 2nd year in the NFL.  There arn't many more things he could have had stacked against him.

 

He's now got a much better team around him, better coaching, he's practiced with the 1's and learned the playbook and has a full years starting experience.  

 

I'm not saying he's going to be the answer or anything but the situations are so night and day different that I don't think it's fair to just write him off just yet.   

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

4 minutes ago, Pacergeek said:

With Brissett as our starting QB, at best, this is a 6 win team. I have no idea where all of this false optimism is coming from. Last time we saw Jacoby play, only two years ago, he sucked. I'm not buying this narrative of how Jacoby is all of a sudden an above average NFL QB. 

We aren’t just one player. We have a ton of play makers. We are fast and have a ton of weapons. We should have a very good oline again. Darius Leonard didn’t forget how to strip the ball or tackle. Houston hasn’t forgot how to sak the QB. Ty Is still fast and can catch. Doyle made the pro bowl with JB. Let’s see we add Cain and Campbell. Two pro bowl TE. We have a lot of exciting players.

[Myles]

3 minutes ago, Pacergeek said:

With Brissett as our starting QB, at best, this is a 6 win team. I have no idea where all of this false optimism is coming from. Last time we saw Jacoby play, only two years ago, he sucked. I'm not buying this narrative of how Jacoby is all of a sudden an above average NFL QB. 

No he didn't.   He actually played well under the circumstances.   A crappy team with no O-line and Brissett coming to the team right before the start of the season.  

[krunk]

6 minutes ago, Pacergeek said:

With Brissett as our starting QB, at best, this is a 6 win team. I have no idea where all of this false optimism is coming from. Last time we saw Jacoby play, only two years ago, he sucked. I'm not buying this narrative of how Jacoby is all of a sudden an above average NFL QB. 

Again when do we ever listen to you?

[Coffeedrinker]

8 minutes ago, Chloe6124 said:

He lost a lot of those leads because of bad coaching. Chuck was so predictable. If there was three receivers on the field we threw it. If there was two receivers we ran it. Chuck was a very bad coach.

Pagano was predictable and not a good coach, but that is not the only reason the Colts lost those games. 

 

In the first half of games, Brisset completed over 61% of his passes for 1521 yards with 8 TDs/2Ints 79 First downs and 27 sacks for a QB rating of 90.8.  All very respectable numbers.

 

In the 2nd half/OT Brissett completed 57% of his passes for 1577 yards with 5 TDs/5Ints 67 first downs and 24 sacks for a QB rating of 77.4.  Well below mediocre numbers.

 

It's not like the Colts switched coaches at half time.  Jacoby was not as good with the game on the line.  Until he proves otherwise expectation for him this year.

[csmopar]

18 minutes ago, Myles said:

That's what I thought at first, then I seen this:

 

Brissett was in the final year of his four-year, $3.41 million rookie deal that included a 2019 base salary of $2 million. The new two-year deal replaces his rookie contract and runs through the 2020 season.

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/27523507/source-colts-qb-brissett-agree-30m-deal

 

I wish they would not call it an extension because I always think of that as additional on the current deal.   

thanks, 

7 minutes ago, Pacergeek said:

With Brissett as our starting QB, at best, this is a 6 win team. I have no idea where all of this false optimism is coming from. Last time we saw Jacoby play, only two years ago, he sucked. I'm not buying this narrative of how Jacoby is all of a sudden an above average NFL QB. 

Nice to see you again, I love how the naysaying trolls always seem to come out in times like these. Anyone wanna take bets on how many wins it'll take before the trolls disappear again? 9? 10?

[Coffeedrinker]

8 minutes ago, Valpo2004 said:

 

I think you have to give him a chance to see.

I fully intend to although let's be honest, he is the starter whether I give him a chance or not

 

8 minutes ago, Valpo2004 said:

 

 

That 2017 team was essentially the same one that Andrew Luck with 3 and a half years of starting experience went 8-8 with the year before.  And Luck played well but it was just a flat out bad team.  That was after the leftovers from the Polian era had retired but Grigson's draft picks and free agents where not doing diddly.  

I think I acknowledge that the current Colts team is better, that is why I think they are an 8-8 or 9-7 team.  But like I said, I think with an elite QB the Colts are an 11-13 win team.

8 minutes ago, Valpo2004 said:

 

Jacoby took over that team without the chance to learn the playbook or practice with the 1's and had like 1 game of starting experience with the Pats and was in his 2nd year in the NFL.  There arn't many more things he could have had stacked against him.

All true.  Even with that though, he had the lead heading into the 4th quarter 8 times and lost it 7 times.

8 minutes ago, Valpo2004 said:

 

He's now got a much better team around him, better coaching, he's practiced with the 1's and learned the playbook and has a full years starting experience.  

All true, it's why I think the Colts are now an 8 or 9 win team.

8 minutes ago, Valpo2004 said:

 

I'm not saying he's going to be the answer or anything but the situations are so night and day different that I don't think it's fair to just write him off just yet.   

You quoted me, so I assume this is directed at me, I'm not writing him off, I just don't think he's an elite QB.

[Valpo2004]

15 minutes ago, throwing BBZ said:

 

  Jacoby already showed us in 2017 he can be a legit NFL QB.
 Anyone that believes he hasn't improved his knowledge and abilities since is just Out There.
Ballard said he thought he was a top 20 QB now. Maybe that is his ceiling, maybe not. It is ok to be wrong. And ok to say Show me.

 

I wouldn't say he can be a legit NFL QB either.  His play in 2017 was not what you want out of your starter.  I wasn't terrible but you want better. 

 

But as I pointed out the situations are so different that it's also unfair to write Jacoby off because of how much he had stacked against him.

 

Lets also not forget that the Jets last year probably had a better team than the 2017 Colts and their QB had a full training camp of practicing with the 1's and learning the playbook.  The Jets went 4-12 that year and they are considering Darnold their franchise QB.  

 

In fact Darnold's stats last year where much worse than 2017 Jacoby Brissett's with much much more stacked against him.

[throwing BBZ]

45 minutes ago, shastamasta said:

 

Pretty sure Luck's signing bonus was counted as cash back when he signed the deal.

 

Roster bonuses...on the other hand...I think do count each as cash spend in that year. So to your point...they stood nothing to gain by taking back $12M in cash from Luck...since they aren't likely to spend it anyways and the optics would look bad.

 

 The optics would have looked Great. He quit, he didn't deserve it.
 The ONLY reason to let him walk away with it was so he couldn't sign with whoever he wanted. He could have sat on his Hawaii beach for this season, got rested up and healthy, the signed a new deal for Another $100M guaranteed at $35+ M a year. Don't think his agent didn't have this in mind.
 I mean some would say we had him locked up for 3 years at a Huge discount.
Wait and see him come back Only if the $$$ is renegotiated!
 Having another $12M in cash laying around for team building actually is Real $$$.

[Valpo2004]

7 minutes ago, Coffeedrinker said:

I fully intend to although let's be honest, he is the starter whether I give him a chance or not

 

I think I acknowledge that the current Colts team is better, that is why I think they are an 8-8 or 9-7 team.  But like I said, I think with an elite QB the Colts are an 11-13 win team.

All true.  Even with that though, he had the lead heading into the 4th quarter 8 times and lost it 7 times.

All true, it's why I think the Colts are now an 8 or 9 win team.

You quoted me, so I assume this is directed at me, I'm not writing him off, I just don't think he's an elite QB.

 

No you are probably right about that, he's not a top 5 QB.  

 

You don't need a top 5 QB to win the SB.  

[Coffeedrinker]

1 minute ago, Valpo2004 said:

 

No you are probably right about that, he's not a top 5 QB.  

 

You don't need a top 5 QB to win the SB.  

Agree and disagree.  A team doesn't need a top 5 QB to win a SB but a QB needs to play like a top Qb for at least one year to do it.  If you look at even when tampa and Baltimore won their SBs, Dilfer and Johnson had career years that year.

 

Additionally, I don't think the Colts are quite good enough as a team to carry a QB outside of even the top 10 to a SB.

 

Like I stated many times on this forum... I very well could be wrong, this is just my opinion based on the information I have right now.  But unlike so many, I am going to enjoy the season no matter what.  I enjoy things more when the Colts win, but either way, I will enjoy the entire season.

[Myles]

17 minutes ago, Coffeedrinker said:

Pagano was predictable and not a good coach, but that is not the only reason the Colts lost those games. 

 

In the first half of games, Brisset completed over 61% of his passes for 1521 yards with 8 TDs/2Ints 79 First downs and 27 sacks for a QB rating of 90.8.  All very respectable numbers.

 

In the 2nd half/OT Brissett completed 57% of his passes for 1577 yards with 5 TDs/5Ints 67 first downs and 24 sacks for a QB rating of 77.4.  Well below mediocre numbers.

 

It's not like the Colts switched coaches at half time.  Jacoby was not as good with the game on the line.  Until he proves otherwise expectation for him this year.

The bad coaching of Pagano still factored into it.   While other teams made haftime adjustments, the Colts came out with the same game plan and it showed.