Final Play Call

[AZColt11]

Gonna admit, I didn't read this entire thread.  But I know what it's about and here's the thing:  It depends on your perspective of this team.  There's one camp that believes the Colts are a few plays away from being 4-0, and because of that, believes the playoff s are/were a real possibility this season and, when you get there, anything can happen.  Then there's the camp that believes that, even if the Colts somehow managed to sneak into the playoffs this year, they wouldn't fare too well anyway because they simply don't have the personnel yet to do well.  They are thinking down the road to 2019 and beyond.  So if you are in the former group, this was a HORRIBLE decision that may just have cost your team a playoff spot.  And if you're in the latter group, this was a GREAT decision that simply did not work out because it sends a message to your locker room that you have faith in them and you are going for the win all the time, which will help gel a team that is looking to establish a new identity with a new coaching staff and many new players.

 

That's it in a nutshell.

[Tsarquise]

8 hours ago, #12. said:

Today in this situation?  Yes.  

 

A veteran team vying for a playoff spot?  Every situation is different. 

 

In fact, had this team been 3-0, I would have taken the tie.  

 But it's possible that you convert, and drive down the field, and win... The attempt to convert is not guaranteed to fail. 

[AZColt11]

15 hours ago, coltsfan_canada said:

Pagano Special Team play Vs. Reich 4 down play

Which one is the highlight of the year?

Please stop.  Those two are not even in the same class.  At least Reich's play had all 11 guys on the field.

[Yoshinator]

I was screaming at the TV to go for it on this play. 26 seconds and I believe 2 timeouts. I wanted to win that game. A tie was absolutely useless. We are playing NE next week, still have 2 games Vs Jax, and are far from a guarantee to make the playoffs with a tie. We needed that win to get back to 2-2. Unfortunately, it didn't happen, but I love Reich's call there, and he gained some respect from me yesterday in that instance.

[Shive]

2 minutes ago, Jared Cisneros said:

I was screaming at the TV to go for it on this play. 26 seconds and I believe 2 timeouts. I wanted to win that game. A tie was absolutely useless. We are playing NE next week, still have 2 games Vs Jax, and are far from a guarantee to make the playoffs with a tie. We needed that win to get back to 2-2. Unfortunately, it didn't happen, but I love Reich's call there, and he gained some respect from me yesterday in that instance.

100%. Making a call like that tells your players that you believe in them. It tells the offense that you believe in them to convert and it tells your defense that if the O can't convert, you believe in them to hold their ground with precarious field position. They didn't execute on either side of the ball, but they at least respect their coach for the ballsy play call.

 

Lets be honest, we're no championship caliber team this season. The goal is to develop our team and get a few wins along the way. Next season we should be taking names and cracking skulls.

[braveheartcolt]

A lot of us are splitting hairs on this, and although I thought it stupid at the time, I understand the other viewpoint.

 

But if we really need our HC to make a 'statement' about this team by way of making a game losing decision, then I will have to scratch my head. Surely he already has the full support of the dressing room. And why not be more aggressive earlier on, rather than wait until it was *hit or bust?

 

You got to love the drama all the same!

[King Colt]

The majority of reactions from players, coaches and broadcasters are positive and very supportive of Reichs call and his post game take on his call so I am changing my take to agreeing with the coach. Why not, Luck's final throw was low.

[2006Coltsbestever]

40 minutes ago, Jared Cisneros said:

I was screaming at the TV to go for it on this play. 26 seconds and I believe 2 timeouts. I wanted to win that game. A tie was absolutely useless. We are playing NE next week, still have 2 games Vs Jax, and are far from a guarantee to make the playoffs with a tie. We needed that win to get back to 2-2. Unfortunately, it didn't happen, but I love Reich's call there, and he gained some respect from me yesterday in that instance.

I agree, great Post. I was glad we went for it, a Tie wouldve got us nowhere.

[GoColts8818]

4 hours ago, csmopar said:

 

 While you two are bickering over the past, you're both missing the fact that Luck had a reliable target, Reggie Wayne, for those first 3 years as well. Wayne commanded coverage and allowed TY to do his thing. Hopefully Pascal can continue what he had going to day.

There is no question that Reggie Wayne was a huge part of Lucks early success.  I’ve said for years part of Lucks problem is that they have never really replaced him.  The new coaches seem to be using TY in a way that may finally let TY become that guy and not just a deep threat.

[braveheartcolt]

23 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

I agree, great Post. I was glad we went for it, a Tie wouldve got us nowhere.

You do know it would only have made half a point of a difference? If it becomes that tight later on, perhaps that tie could keep us in the playoffs?

[2006Coltsbestever]

Just now, braveheartcolt said:

You do know it would only have made half a point of a difference? If it becomes that tight later on, perhaps that tie could keep us in the playoffs?

Possibly but we really needed a Win so I see why Reich went for it. A Loss is Bad but I don't mind the call. I see why some people like NCF even hated going for it so I see both sides of it because if you don't get it you basically give them the game (which we did).

[csmopar]

3 minutes ago, braveheartcolt said:

You do know it would only have made half a point of a difference? If it becomes that tight later on, perhaps that tie could keep us in the playoffs?

I'd rather miss the playoffs than have a coach/team that concedes defeat at a crucial time in the game.  It costs us this time. But another thing to consider, we still need talent. If we miss the playoffs(something I do NOT want), we'd draft that much higher. Not that I want that to happen. But still

[2006Coltsbestever]

3 minutes ago, csmopar said:

I'd rather miss the playoffs than have a coach/team that concedes defeat at a crucial time in the game.  It costs us this time. But another thing to consider, we still need talent. If we miss the playoffs(something I do NOT want), we'd draft that much higher. Not that I want that to happen. But still

As most seasons go, we will know by game 8 whether or not we have a shot at the Playoffs. We need to be 4-4, if we aren't 4-4 through 8 games than it's over IMO. 

[GoColts00]

That call took cajones, but I think we should have done it on the first 4th-n-4 rather than the 2nd. The first time we went out the Texans knew we were trying to draw them offsides. IF we tried to draw them offsides then yelled "kill,kill,kill" and ran a play it probably would have been better. We could set up in an I-formation, play-action pass or even ran a Wildcat or a bootleg. Something to surprise them..

[VaAllDay757]

Don't understand how some of ya'll wouldn't take the tie in a situation like that....a loss gets you nowhere.....a tie counts as half a win and last time I checked that's always been better than losing.....I get it frank is changing things in indy but saying he would go for it 10 times outta 10 is ridiculous and I'm pretty sure irsay is NOT having that again

[dw49]

9 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

By your logic, no team facing 4th and 4 orcless would ever punt.   But teams punt all the time.   Because the odds are small of getting the first down.  Teams rarely go for a first down on 4th and four.   

 

As for Texas...   once they had the ball...   they had all the momentum and we hadn’t shown signs of stopping the Texans.    Slowing them, yes.   Stopping them, no.   Remember..   they got nearly 500 yards today...   they only needed 20 or so for field goal range.  They got much more than they needed making the winning FG easy.

 

 

That just isn't true . It isn't even close . You have a scenario that gives you about a 70% chance of winning the game and zero chance of losing it if you make the 4 yards. That is so far from going for it in the second quarter from your 25 yard line. It isn't like apples and oranges , it's like apples and prime rib. I'm not a genius but I spent a great deal of my life gambling and working with math. Do me a favor and find a sports fan that's good at math and ask for his opinion. There's is some variables here like , momentum , players being tired , etc that prevents just looking at the stats and saying something like the team has a 70% chance of making a first down. Other words I realize you can't say Luck was averaging 7 yards per pass attempt , so the odds were greatly in favor of picking up 4 yards. So when you do the math , you have to guess a bit. The smartest coach in the universe went for it once on a 4th and 2 from deep in his territory in a tie game right ? He did the math and figured his best chance of winning the game was not giving the ball back to Manning.That doesn't mean he will always go for a 4th and two from his 25 , which is what you answer suggests.

[braveheartcolt]

15 minutes ago, dw49 said:

 

That just isn't true . It isn't even close . You have a scenario that gives you about a 70% chance of winning the game and zero chance of losing it if you make the 4 yards. That is so far from going for it in the second quarter from your 25 yard line. It isn't like apples and oranges , it's like apples and prime rib. I'm not a genius but I spent a great deal of my life gambling and working with math. Do me a favor and find a sports fan that's good at math and ask for his opinion. There's is some variables here like , momentum , players being tired , etc that prevents just looking at the stats and saying something like the team has a 70% chance of making a first down. Other words I realize you can't say Luck was averaging 7 yards per pass attempt , so the odds were greatly in favor of picking up 4 yards. So when you do the math , you have to guess a bit. The smartest coach in the universe went for it once on a 4th and 2 from deep in his territory in a tie game right ? He did the math and figured his best chance of winning the game was not giving the ball back to Manning.That doesn't mean he will always go for a 4th and two from his 25 , which is what you answer suggests.

What you say makes sense, however, on our first possession in overtime, we had a 4th and 2 at their 35 yard line. Would that not have been a more sensible time 'to go for the win'? And if we failed, we could still bank on our D to get the stop. To me, Reich mad a mistake. I'm not against his aggressive attitude, but he needs to be more considered. Or maybe I'm missing something....

[2006Coltsbestever]

2 minutes ago, braveheartcolt said:

What you say makes sense, however, on our first possession in overtime, we had a 4th and 2 at their 35 yard line. Would that not have been a more sensible time 'to go for the win'? And if we failed, we could still bank on our D to get the stop. To me, Reich mad a mistake. I'm not against his aggressive attitude, but he needs to be more considered. Or maybe I'm missing something....

That is a good point. To be honest I wouldve went for it there because a FG doesn't win you the game at that point and gives Houston the ball back anyway.

[Myles]

27 minutes ago, VaAllDay757 said:

Don't understand how some of ya'll wouldn't take the tie in a situation like that....a loss gets you nowhere.....a tie counts as half a win and last time I checked that's always been better than losing...

1-2-1 with the Pats on Thursday isn't going to result in a playoff spot.   It wasn't a bad call.   He took a chance that Luck could pick up 4 yards.   

[2006Coltsbestever]

30 minutes ago, VaAllDay757 said:

Don't understand how some of ya'll wouldn't take the tie in a situation like that....a loss gets you nowhere.....a tie counts as half a win and last time I checked that's always been better than losing.....I get it frank is changing things in indy but saying he would go for it 10 times outta 10 is ridiculous and I'm pretty sure irsay is NOT having that again

I would rather Tie than lose so I get that point but I have no problem with Reich going for it. We needed a Win badly. Yeah it's easy now to criticize it but we had a QB that had 464 yards and was on fire. It's easy to see why we went for it IMO.

[braveheartcolt]

1 minute ago, Myles said:

1-2-1 with the Pats on Thursday isn't going to result in a playoff spot.   It wasn't a bad call.   He took a chance that Luck could pick up 4 yards.   

Why did he not take it on the 4th and 2? That kinda contradicts his bullish post game mantra about going for the win every time.....

[VaAllDay757]

46 minutes ago, Myles said:

1-2-1 with the Pats on Thursday isn't going to result in a playoff spot.   It wasn't a bad call.   He took a chance that Luck could pick up 4 yards.   

What does the pats have anything to do with our record??? 1-2-1 is always better than 1-3 regardless of the next opponent never give the game away

[VaAllDay757]

44 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

I would rather Tie than lose so I get that point but I have no problem with Reich going for it. We needed a Win badly. Yeah it's easy now to criticize it but we had a QB that had 464 yards and was on fire. It's easy to see why we went for it IMO.

Yeah I understand why he called for it but what I'm saying is it doesn't make it right

[2006Coltsbestever]

1 minute ago, VaAllDay757 said:

Yeah I understand why he called for it but what I'm saying is it doesn't make it right

Yeah I can see both sides of it.

[Cynjin]

45 minutes ago, braveheartcolt said:

Why did he not take it on the 4th and 2? That kinda contradicts his bullish post game mantra about going for the win every time.....

 

Are you talking about when the Colts were in field goal range in OT?

 

Kicking the field goal and giving the defense a chance to stop the Texans is playing to win.  Punting on 4th and 4, with less than a minute to play is playing to tie.

[dw49]

55 minutes ago, braveheartcolt said:

What you say makes sense, however, on our first possession in overtime, we had a 4th and 2 at their 35 yard line. Would that not have been a more sensible time 'to go for the win'? And if we failed, we could still bank on our D to get the stop. To me, Reich mad a mistake. I'm not against his aggressive attitude, but he needs to be more considered. Or maybe I'm missing something....

 

 

I don't think so but I understand that this stuff is all tough to quantify . IMO , Reich had to come away with points there . Actually I think it was around the 25 not the 35 ? There really is no right or wrong to this stuff as the "math " changes as the circumstances change. Plus it's too early in the season to know how a tie effects your playoff chances.

[dw49]

7 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Yeah I can see both sides of it.

 

That is true . This was a close enough call that there are 2 sides to it. It wasn't a no brainer to go for it nor was it boneheaded to try it. I just think everything considered Reich made the right call.

[2006Coltsbestever]

Most of the media from what I have been reading and watching this morning agree with Reich going for it. Stephen A and Max both loved that we went for it. They both said they hate ties though.

[2006Coltsbestever]

Andrew Luck - "We aren't playing for no tie, the team loves that and I love that"

[Lawrence Owen]

12 hours ago, braveheartcolt said:

Not a good decision in my (limited knowledged) opinion.

 

1. A loss being the same as a tie - stop with the homer chatter. We had a chance to keep a division rival behind us, and we gifted them a win. 

2. Where was the 'brave' call on the previous drive? Reich blew it I'm afraid.

3. Why not go for it on the first snap, when everyone in the world knew we were just trying to draw them offside. Stupid, and burned a TO we may have needed to get the GOAT kicker in range.

4. I absolutely hate the rehtoric on this young team loving the decision. Pulling back a tie with such a tremendous fight back in pretty dire circumstances would have been much much better for this locker room.

5. Oh, and yes, Luck is finished. His arm is shot etc. 

 

All that said, great game to watch.

#3 is the only issue i had with going for it.  He should have snapped it because the other team would not have expected it.  The 2nd time going out...they was.

#5...i hope that is sarcasm. since he had a 50 yard 'in air' completion to T.Y., and several rocket passes that went medium yards.

[BullsColtsFan1]

I agreed with the final play call.  4th and 4 at your own 43 with 27 seconds left.  Try to win the game, not settle for a tie.  I understand tying would have put up 3rd in the standings instead of 4th but I'd rather go for the win. 

[coltsva]

I was screaming "nooo!" at the TV when they went for it. I even said "What, do we have another Pagano coaching us?" To which my wife replied "Pagano would have punted it." She is my voice of reason. 

[Four2itus]

Mad props to my new staff and their large appendages!!!

 

We are going for it 10 out of 10. Ya baby.

[braveheartcolt]

1 hour ago, Cynjin said:

 

Are you talking about when the Colts were in field goal range in OT?

 

Kicking the field goal and giving the defense a chance to stop the Texans is playing to win.  Punting on 4th and 4, with less than a minute to play is playing to tie.

Going for it on 4th and 2 and keeping the momentum going was a better choice IMHO. JJ looked gassed and a TD on that drive wins it. 

 

This is not hindsight. I wanted them to go for it on 4/2 but not on the 4/4. 

[braveheartcolt]

1 hour ago, dw49 said:

 

 

I don't think so but I understand that this stuff is all tough to quantify . IMO , Reich had to come away with points there . Actually I think it was around the 25 not the 35 ? There really is no right or wrong to this stuff as the "math " changes as the circumstances change. Plus it's too early in the season to know how a tie effects your playoff chances.

Yes sir, it was from the 26 yard line.......good recall......

[braveheartcolt]

56 minutes ago, Lawrence Owen said:

#3 is the only issue i had with going for it.  He should have snapped it because the other team would not have expected it.  The 2nd time going out...they was.

#5...i hope that is sarcasm. since he had a 50 yard 'in air' completion to T.Y., and several rocket passes that went medium yards.

Yes, pure sarcasm, as a little friendly jibe at all the naysayers. 

[Myles]

1 hour ago, VaAllDay757 said:

What does the pats have anything to do with our record??? 1-2-1 is always better than 1-3 regardless of the next opponent never give the game away

?

That Pats game is going to be a loss.   The Colts could have still overcame a 2-3 record to make the playoffs.   1-3-1, not so much.  

He went for the win, good for him.   They could have lost even if they would have attempted a punt, so it wasn't a straight win-lose-tie situation.   

[VaAllDay757]

2 minutes ago, Myles said:

?

That Pats game is going to be a loss.   The Colts could have still overcame a 2-3 record to make the playoffs.   1-3-1, not so much.  

He went for the win, good for him.   They could have lost even if they would have attempted a punt, so it wasn't a straight win-lose-tie situation.   

How do you know the game is a loss???? They haven't even practiced yet that's the problem right there....some of ya'll don't understand every game is different

[Cynjin]

28 minutes ago, braveheartcolt said:

Going for it on 4th and 2 and keeping the momentum going was a better choice IMHO. JJ looked gassed and a TD on that drive wins it. 

 

This is not hindsight. I wanted them to go for it on 4/2 but not on the 4/4. 

 

That seems a little inconsistent.  You are okay with going for it when putting 3 on the board puts the Colts in the lead with a chance to win, but you want to punt it at the end of the game giving the Colts no chance to win.

[braveheartcolt]

3 minutes ago, Cynjin said:

 

That seems a little inconsistent.  You are okay with going for it when putting 3 on the board puts the Colts in the lead with a chance to win, but you want to punt it at the end of the game giving the Colts no chance to win.

Not inconsistent in the slightest. We had them on the ropes on that 1st OT drive, and let them escape. By the end, it never felt right. Gut feeling, no more, no less. And burning a time out was stupid. Bluff the hard count, but then snap the ball if  you are going for it........

 

I think he panicked a bit.