We are moving back to a 4-3 zone defense

[Jason_]

1 hour ago, DougDew said:

I don't really get personal here or remember names, but several posts in the past have come up regarding switching to a 43 and who might be on the bubble more than others.  Anderson came up a lot as being an odd man out.

 

I think that would be a mistake.  I think he is a very good DLineman that can play well doing many things on the inside no matter what the alignment. 

 

It was probably just people that know him as a DE in a 34 and assume he couldn't switch. His responsibilities in a 43 as a 3.tech wouldn't be all that different than what he's been doing since being drafted by the colts. 

[jameszeigler834]

49 minutes ago, J@son said:

 

Lmao. Not even remotely true.  I know enough to know that your comment that Zone defense never works is utterly ridiculous. 

Whatever.

[Jason_]

31 minutes ago, jameszeigler834 said:

Whatever.

 

do you by any chance remember 2006?  The year the Colts played the Bears in the SB?  Both of those teams got there with primarily zone defenses.  the Steelers defense has been a zone blitz scheme for many years.  Probably close to half the teams in the league run a primarily zone defense.

[Mr.Debonair]

Did the OP talk to Eberflus already or something? How does he know exactly what kind of defense we will run?

[krunk]

13 minutes ago, Mr.Debonair said:

Did the OP talk to Eberflus already or something? How does he know exactly what kind of defense we will run?

Ballard gave us the basic details in his press conference yesterday.

[Finball]

1 hour ago, J@son said:

 

do you by any chance remember 2006?  The year the Colts played the Bears in the SB?  Both of those teams got there with primarily zone defenses.  the Steelers defense has been a zone blitz scheme for many years.  Probably close to half the teams in the league run a primarily zone defense.

 

I wouldn't go as far as to say zone sucks but it's been quite a while since zone heavy, 4-3 over team has won the SB.. which looks like we'll be but don't for sure yet. Even teams that won the SB in recent years playing more zone (Seahawks) use predominantly pattern-matching zone. They don't just drop into spots.

[BlueShoe]

4 hours ago, aaron11 said:

i dont get why so many people want to move geathers to linebacker

 

he seems like a safety to me

 

The WILL in this type of defense has the ability to really shine. If he is athletic enough then he can be a game wrecker. 

 

I think some of us can picture lightning striking twice for us, because a similar defense made Cato June look like an all star, and Geathers has a better skill set than Cato had. 

 

If you’re a betting person then lay money on Geathers moving to WILL in this defense. In my opinion, odds are stacked that way. 

[jameszeigler834]

1 hour ago, J@son said:

 

do you by any chance remember 2006?  The year the Colts played the Bears in the SB?  Both of those teams got there with primarily zone defenses.  the Steelers defense has been a zone blitz scheme for many years.  Probably close to half the teams in the league run a primarily zone defense.

Good majority of them these days cant cover but I guess we will see what happens with our defense through next season and beyond if this defense does really well in that scheme I will gladly eat crow.

[BlueShoe]

1 hour ago, Mr.Debonair said:

Did the OP talk to Eberflus already or something? How does he know exactly what kind of defense we will run?

 

It would be nice if I could attribute it to visions. I would concentrate on lotto numbers. However, I assure you that I am just as mortal as anyone else on this board. 

 

I just have good listening skills.  

 

Ballard spilled the beans in yesterdays press conference. 

 

 

[Jason_]

26 minutes ago, jameszeigler834 said:

Good majority of them these days cant cover but I guess we will see what happens with our defense through next season and beyond if this defense does really well in that scheme I will gladly eat crow.

 

Fair enough ☺️

[Jason_]

1 hour ago, Finball said:

 

I wouldn't go as far as to say zone sucks but it's been quite a while since zone heavy, 4-3 over team has won the SB.. which looks like we'll be but don't for sure yet. Even teams that won the SB in recent years playing more zone (Seahawks) use predominantly pattern-matching zone. They don't just drop into spots.

 

Isn't "pattern matching" zone still zone? That's pretty much just an example of how zone defense concepts have evolved. 

[P'Son]

Should be the new head coaches decision but I'm for it.

[Superman]

On 2/7/2018 at 9:42 AM, BlueShoe said:

Matt Eberflus is staying. He is our DC moving forward. 

 

Ballard confirmed this in his conference. It was a detail that I think went overlooked by many. 

 

Matt Eberflus (Rod Marinelli - Tony Dungy tree).

 

Marinelli has morphed his style of zone defense (his version of the Tampa 2) over the years. This defense is not exactly what we saw in Indy under Tony Dungy, but it has some sprinkles of what we used to run. Marinelli has done a good job of mixing in some single high safety looks and man-to-man packages. Obviously we will see some cover 2 as well.

 

Matt Eberflus is bringing the Rod Marinelli defense with him to Indy. 

 

The defense will be built on speed.

 

I agree with most of this, but I don't think it's necessarily going to be zone coverage the majority of the time. 

[Superman]

4 hours ago, J@son said:

 

Isn't "pattern matching" zone still zone? That's pretty much just an example of how zone defense concepts have evolved. 

 

Kind of, but not really. Pattern matching is essentially man, until it becomes zone. And in some cases, it's zone until it's man. It's kind of designed to minimize the effectiveness of traditional zone beaters, like corner routes, comebacks, etc., because defenders aren't just dropping back and breaking when the ball is released. 

 

https://www.elevenwarriors.com/ohio-state-football/2014/12/46950/film-study-nick-sabans-pattern-matching-pass-defense

 

Take a deep breath before you dive in...

[BlueShoe]

18 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

I agree with most of this, but I don't think it's necessarily going to be zone coverage the majority of the time. 

 

I have been watching some Dallas tape. They play a lot of cover 2 shell.

 

They play some man coverage, but mostly zone.

 

The corners give a lot of cushion on most plays, but they do press on occasion. 

 

That said, he might not implement the exact same defense Dallas runs, but he will likely implement most of it. 

 

Good thing for us, he can morph this into his own style and we could see more man, more press, and we don't have to stay in cover 2 as much as Dallas does. 

[Peterk2011]

On 2018. 02. 07. at 8:12 PM, DougDew said:

True, but the Dungy D didn't ever do man coverage,AFAIK.  If our new DC is truly off the Dungy tree, that has some concern for me.  

 

I assume he isn't. (I hope he isn't )

 

Eberflus was Rob Ryan's assistant coach when Ryan took the Dallas DC job. When Ryan was fired, Dallas kept Eberflus because the FO and Kiffin/Marinelli were impressed with him. So, he worked under different people. Kinda same root, but still, different.

 

As far as Marinelli's defense go, Dallas plays mostly single high (man or zone). They’re usually devoting the strong safety to the run front, and playing a lot more man, with some Cover 3 mixed in. They use cover 2 only/mostly in red zone and in 2 minute situations. Marinelly stated himself in 2016, that his scheme looks closer to what Seattle's been looking recently than to a traditional tampa 2. I picked up most of these reading articles here and there, and only occasional "game tape", so I might be way off.

 

Btw, as far as I remember they did run a lot of zone in the beginning of last season. Not sure if that had anything to do with Sean Lee's injury and the fact that they were playing their backups at CB. Maybe yes, maybe not.

 

(Anyway, that single high safety with the strong safety playing closer to the LOS is something how the Colts could use Hooker and Geathers the best. And considering, that Wilson and Melvin are both stronger, bigger CB's who are better fit in press than zone, and these guys were Ballards acquisitions, So I assume if Eberflus was a mostly zone, traditional cover 2 guy, Ballard might not have picked him.

[DougDew]

37 minutes ago, Peterk2011 said:

 

I assume he isn't. (I hope he isn't )

 

Eberflus was Rob Ryan's assistant coach when Ryan took the Dallas DC job. When Ryan was fired, Dallas kept Eberflus because the FO and Kiffin/Marinelli were impressed with him. So, he worked under different people. Kinda same root, but still, different.

 

As far as Marinelli's defense go, Dallas plays mostly single high (man or zone). They’re usually devoting the strong safety to the run front, and playing a lot more man, with some Cover 3 mixed in. They use cover 2 only/mostly in red zone and in 2 minute situations. Marinelly stated himself in 2016, that his scheme looks closer to what Seattle's been looking recently than to a traditional tampa 2. I picked up most of these reading articles here and there, and only occasional "game tape", so I might be way off.

 

Btw, as far as I remember they did run a lot of zone in the beginning of last season. Not sure if that had anything to do with Sean Lee's injury and the fact that they were playing their backups at CB. Maybe yes, maybe not.

 

(Anyway, that single high safety with the strong safety playing closer to the LOS is something how the Colts could use Hooker and Geathers the best. And considering, that Wilson and Melvin are both stronger, bigger CB's who are better fit in press than zone, and these guys were Ballards acquisitions, So I assume if Eberflus was a mostly zone, traditional cover 2 guy, Ballard might not have picked him.

Yes.  That makes sense.

[DougDew]

9 hours ago, J@son said:

 

It was probably just people that know him as a DE in a 34 and assume he couldn't switch. His responsibilities in a 43 as a 3.tech wouldn't be all that different than what he's been doing since being drafted by the colts. 

He's not Warren Sapp, but he's good enough to be useful in a rotation and therefore keep.

[Indeee]

8 hours ago, Mr.Debonair said:

Did the OP talk to Eberflus already or something? How does he know exactly what kind of defense we will run?

The defense will mimic Seattle's defense. 4-3 hybrid, cover 3, cover 1 scheme. That's what Ballard wanted all along, which justifies hiring the Seattle guys to scout positions and player personel

[Superman]

11 hours ago, BlueShoe said:

 

The WILL in this type of defense has the ability to really shine. If he is athletic enough then he can be a game wrecker. 

 

I think some of us can picture lightning striking twice for us, because a similar defense made Cato June look like an all star, and Geathers has a better skill set than Cato had. 

 

If you’re a betting person then lay money on Geathers moving to WILL in this defense. In my opinion, odds are stacked that way. 

 

The only problem I have with this idea is relying on Geathers in an even more physical position. 

[BlueShoe]

6 hours ago, Superman said:

 

The only problem I have with this idea is relying on Geathers in an even more physical position. 

 

His neck is either healed or not healed. This is football. At safety, he is coming downhill. At linebacker the ball carrier is coming down hill. Collisions are going to happen regardless of where he lines up.

 

In my opinion, if his neck is still a concern then maybe playing football is not a good idea. He is playing so hopefully he is doing so because he is fully healed. 

[ColtsBlueFL]

15 hours ago, Superman said:

 

I agree with most of this, but I don't think it's necessarily going to be zone coverage the majority of the time. 

 

And I agree with this.  depending upon players we have/get, and teams we play, I see man under/cover two at times, and some special nickel/dime sub packages.  I wonder who we target at MLB?  Will some kind of trade setup allow us to get Roquan Smith and another top round 1 prospect?  Interesting off season for certain.

[krunk]

Hopefully we copy personnel wise what the bears had.   They had some decent size on their D line and Linebacking Corps .

[Superman]

8 hours ago, ColtsBlueFL said:

 

And I agree with this.  depending upon players we have/get, and teams we play, I see man under/cover two at times, and some special nickel/dime sub packages.  I wonder who we target at MLB?  Will some kind of trade setup allow us to get Roquan Smith and another top round 1 prospect?  Interesting off season for certain.

 

I think Hitchens will be our new MLB.

[Superman]

11 hours ago, BlueShoe said:

 

His neck is either healed or not healed. This is football. At safety, he is coming downhill. At linebacker the ball carrier is coming down hill. Collisions are going to happen regardless of where he lines up.

 

In my opinion, if his neck is still a concern then maybe playing football is not a good idea. He is playing so hopefully he is doing so because he is fully healed. 

 

I get it, and agree. But it's not just his neck. He's had other injuries also, and he's a big safety, but would be a small linebacker, even in a hybrid role. The hope is that he could play the Deion Jones / Deone Buchanon role, and I'm all about that. But relying on Geathers, who has been mostly unreliable, makes me uneasy. 

[chrisfarley]

With Eberflus, is it automatic that we draft Chubb?  Mike Wells thinks so.  I agree he would fit into the 4-3 as en end, but is he the top talent we need at #3?

[NannyMcafee]

If we are moving to zone coverage I can see why Ballard wasn't overly concerned about having Vontae on the team. 

[BOTT]

9 hours ago, chrisfarley said:

With Eberflus, is it automatic that we draft Chubb?  Mike Wells thinks so.  I agree he would fit into the 4-3 as en end, but is he the top talent we need at #3?

No more automatic than it was before

[ÅÐØNϧ 1]

On 2/7/2018 at 12:45 PM, cjrulli said:

Wonder if Eberflus/Ballard will retain Mathis as a consultant. 

 

He played & won a SB in that defense . And I would add he lived it the leagues worst regular season Defense actually turned it on in the Playoffs " HOW " to win a Lombardi ,

 

Yes I believe his perspective is invaluable thus I see no reason to let him go .

[ColtsBlueFL]

13 hours ago, Superman said:

 

I think Hitchens will be our new MLB.

 

I have not done any research on the draft yet, but in my mind (and I know how fairy tale fantasy these things typically look like when posted here) I'd wonder about the possibility of Ballard somehow trading back a few slots to a desperate QB needy team, and still getting Bradley Chubb, then also snagging Roquan Smith before the Cowboys get him at #19? 

 

Side note: has Hitchens improved his cover ability?

 

Sigh... ok back to reality.  Carry on.

[aaron11]

11 hours ago, chrisfarley said:

With Eberflus, is it automatic that we draft Chubb?  Mike Wells thinks so.  I agree he would fit into the 4-3 as en end, but is he the top talent we need at #3?

its possible hes not even there at our pick, especially if we trade back

 

if we stay at #3 and hes on the board, i think its an easy choice

[aaron11]

3 hours ago, NannyMcafee said:

If we are moving to zone coverage I can see why Ballard wasn't overly concerned about having Vontae on the team. 

he hasnt been good for a few years now

[ty4atd]

The Giants and Browns aren't taking Chubb he'll be there at 3 for sure 

[aaron11]

7 minutes ago, ty4atd said:

The Giants and Browns aren't taking Chubb he'll be there at 3 for sure 

not for sure, the giants could take him.  they dont need a qb right away

 

we had tons of draft threads last year and hooker was hardly mentioned.  the draft is unpredictable 

[NannyMcafee]

1 hour ago, aaron11 said:

he hasnt been good for a few years now

 

Injured too much but he will get picked up 

[LJpalmbeacher2]

15 hours ago, Superman said:

 

I get it, and agree. But it's not just his neck. He's had other injuries also, and he's a big safety, but would be a small linebacker, even in a hybrid role. The hope is that he could play the Deion Jones / Deone Buchanon role, and I'm all about that. But relying on Geathers, who has been mostly unreliable, makes me uneasy. 

I agree. Last season there was speculation here he may never play again and retire for safety reasons.

I like him and glad he's back but he is injury prone and risky to rely on him.

[oldunclemark]

When I hear us talking about needing to seek speed over size because we play indoors and in a warm weather division, I hear that.

It makes a lot of sense. We cant have average speed on offense and defense in the division we play in.

We play at least 11 games indoors or in warm weather.

 

When they say we must gear our teams to where we play, to me, that's the key to success.

If we win the division every year, we'll be Super Bowl, contenders..