Bill Polian on Dan Dakich

[NewColtsFan]

8 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

We may be 3 years away from winning the SB but if win the Division next season it wouldn't shock me. If Luck is healthy that could definitely happen as we will add to our talent with another Draft and Free Agency + a new Coach too. Jags are overrated, Blake Bortles isn't that Good, I don't care how Great their Defense is. As long as Bortles is there they aren't a major threat. It wouldn't shock me either if the Bills beat them. Texans will be Good next season only if Watson stays healthy, we will see. I think Watt is about done - he gets injured every year now. Titans are a 9-7 boring team and Mularkey stinks so 2018 will be interesting.

 

The Rams were able to make the jump because only one half of the team needed fixing --- the offense.

 

The Defense was loaded with talent,  and then they added one of the best DC's of all time.

 

So, the fixed their offense and made a big jump at the same time that Seattle and Arizona both faded.

 

The Colts are not going to get that lucky because we have big needs on both sides of the ball.    We don't have to fix one side of the field,  we have to fix both sides.     Not an easy job.

 

J'Ville is much better than you think they are.    You're in the extreme minority on this one even if you're right on Borltes.   This is a much better team than you realize.

 

Too many fans here are wishing and hoping and not looking closely.    Other teams are further along than the Colts are.   We have much more ground to catch up.     And while it's not impossible,  it's not likely to be done in one season.

 

Polian has a decent idea of what he's talking about....

 

[coltsva]

11 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

We may be 3 years away from winning the SB but if win the Division next season it wouldn't shock me. If Luck is healthy that could definitely happen as we will add to our talent with another Draft and Free Agency + a new Coach too. Jags are overrated, Blake Bortles isn't that Good, I don't care how Great their Defense is. As long as Bortles is there they aren't a major threat. It wouldn't shock me either if the Bills beat them. Texans will be Good next season only if Watson stays healthy, we will see. I think Watt is about done - he gets injured every year now. Titans are a 9-7 boring team and Mularkey stinks so 2018 will be interesting.

If Luck and Watson are healthy next year it would not surprise me to see the division flip back around. 

[HectorRoberts]

1 hour ago, dgambill said:

Funny how everyone ragged on Grigson for taking a wr in the first round and yet wr is probably top 3 biggest needs on the team. Did he get the pick wrong....perhaps...but he wasn't wrong in having foresight to address the need. I didn't really have problems with many of the positions and how he was trying to build the team (plan)...he just picked the wrong guys to build it with.

WR that year was the last thing people thought we needed, we had Hilton, Andre Johnson, Moncrief coming off his rookie year, Griff Whalen, and duron carter. Before that draft I and many other members here thought that wr was our strongest position.

[crazycolt1]

6 minutes ago, Fluke_33 said:

Polian is one of the best gms of all time.   I don’t think you are being objective here.   He was successful before Peyton as well as with him.  

Yes Poilian was a great GM in building great offenses. With that said he didn't have a good record with building winning super bowl teams. He was possessed with thinking a great offense could win the super bowl and never learned from his mistakes. Fun to watch teams that don't win super bowls is what the Bills and the Colts ended up being.

[ReMeDy]

I think we need a good o-line coach first and foremost to develop talent on-site. It's no coincidence the Patriots can protect Brady as well as they do; it's because of good coaching and an offense that knows how to get rid of the ball quickly when it counts.
 

That's why I'm also in support of Josh McDaniels as head coach. He's developed QB's and knows how to protect them through efficient offensive playcalling.

[OLD FAN MAN]

1 hour ago, dgambill said:

Funny how everyone ragged on Grigson for taking a wr in the first round and yet wr is probably top 3 biggest needs on the team. Did he get the pick wrong....perhaps...but he wasn't wrong in having foresight to address the need. I didn't really have problems with many of the positions and how he was trying to build the team (plan)...he just picked the wrong guys to build it with.

it is easy to see the needs, the trick is fixing the needs

[WoolMagnet]

I dont think he was saying it will take 3 years to see success.  Rather that it normally takes about three years until a new coaching staff gets a full roster of his type of roster players and for the coaches and players to fully understand each other and the scheme etc.

 

 

[HectorRoberts]

1 hour ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Polian had the best QB of all-time (ok Top 5 ever, I dont want to be a kiss butt), so he could Draft who ever he wanted and look like a genius  

Grigsion had Luck and still looked like a * with his picks.

[deedub75]

1 hour ago, Colts_Fan12 said:

The line needs 3 out of 5 pieces lol 

 

I was thinking the same thing.  That's 60% of the o line.  Sounds like an overhaul.  

[2006Coltsbestever]

7 minutes ago, Fluke_33 said:

I misread it then.  My bad. 

Yeah I came off sounding like I wasn't giving Polian any credit and was mad we didn't go for 16-0 but that wasn't my point. I think Polian was a Great GM but just when you have a guy like Peyton it makes life really nice.

[Horse Shoe Heaven]

1 hour ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Polian had the best QB of all-time (ok Top 5 ever, I dont want to be a kiss butt), so he could Draft who ever he wanted and look like a genius  

Pollian won for and with EVERY team he was associated with !! Thats why hes in the Hall Of Fame! 

[Horse Shoe Heaven]

1 hour ago, Nesjan3 said:

lol i actually think we need 3/5, both G positions and a T

I think you need a guard and a tackle or 2 guards depending on what you do with Haig.

[2006Coltsbestever]

1 minute ago, Horse Shoe Heaven said:

Pollian won for and with EVERY team he was associated with !! Thats why hes in the Hall Of Fame! 

Read my Post above. I already Posted it came off as I Posted like Polian wasn't great. I think he is but with Peyton as your QB you can have a bad Draft for example and get away with it or miss on a pick and it wont hurt your team.

[HectorRoberts]

My Deep hatred for Irsay came right after he cut peyton and fired Caldwell/Polian...

i just don’t understand how he could jump ship on those 3 who have done so much for him over the years  but had 1 down season. I have no doubt that we could have 1 or even 2 more Super Bowls if he would have kept those 3.

[Horse Shoe Heaven]

4 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Read my Post above. I already Posted it came off as I Posted like Polian wasn't great. I think he is but with Peyton as your QB you can have a bad Draft for example and get away with it or miss on a pick and it wont hurt your team.

Gotya

[WoolMagnet]

1 hour ago, dgambill said:

Funny how everyone ragged on Grigson for taking a wr in the first round and yet wr is probably top 3 biggest needs on the team. Did he get the pick wrong....perhaps...but he wasn't wrong in having foresight to address the need. I didn't really have problems with many of the positions and how he was trying to build the team (plan)...he just picked the wrong guys to build it with.

I have a bigger problem with what we heard about him as a man.  How he was artogant , condescending and dismissive.  He certainly tried to address the OL. The FA contracts didnt hurt us in future.  I think the guy has talent, just not a people person.

  I really like the guy Ballard portrays, whether its an act or not.

lets face it, the vast majority of players drafter are average at best.  Its really difficult to predict not only athletic success, but how they'll handle the success ($), how hard they will study, work,etc.

every team has misses, every year it seems, even in the 1at.

[GoColts8818]

47 minutes ago, Coltsman1788 said:

But Luck isn’t even a Top 5 QB currently let alone Top 5 All-Time like Peyton.  

He was the next sure thing coming out of college and was top five until he got hurt. It takes more than a QB to make a great team.

[WoolMagnet]

1 hour ago, dgambill said:

You don't have to have 5 elite lineman to have a really good OL. We need good book ends...we could settle for serviceable guards and this line would be outstanding. Few if any have 5 great lineman....its a unit...its more than the sum of its parts. We definitely need an answer at RT....but it isn't like the line has to have 5 studs to be what we need it to be....we just need it to be good....we have enough talent at qb that good is enough. I think there are pieces here to be serviceable if they had a couple upgrades playing next to them.

Would be nice to land solid vet FA for RT and 1 at G.  

 

Also add a FA WR, MLB and then i feel we'd be set for draft with flexibility to go chubb , barkeley, fitz, or anywhere really.  I think a good T/G or MLB or RB or WR will be available at OUR 2nd and 3rd.

i'm grtting excited.  We need pieces, but we have a ton of cap space and a GREAT draft position.  

 

SADDLE UP !

hey, that outta be next year's mantra.

[OLD FAN MAN]

1 hour ago, Four2itus said:

Which could be said about many of the o-lines in the NFL. I'd be happy with one or two positions bettered. 

i would be happy with upgrades everywhere except center

[2006Coltsbestever]

35 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

The Rams were able to make the jump because only one half of the team needed fixing --- the offense.

 

The Defense was loaded with talent,  and then they added one of the best DC's of all time.

 

So, the fixed their offense and made a big jump at the same time that Seattle and Arizona both faded.

 

The Colts are not going to get that lucky because we have big needs on both sides of the ball.    We don't have to fix one side of the field,  we have to fix both sides.     Not an easy job.

 

J'Ville is much better than you think they are.    You're in the extreme minority on this one even if you're right on Borltes.   This is a much better team than you realize.

 

Too many fans here are wishing and hoping and not looking closely.    Other teams are further along than the Colts are.   We have much more ground to catch up.     And while it's not impossible,  it's not likely to be done in one season.

 

Polian has a decent idea of what he's talking about....

 

Regarding the Jags, year after year after year I always said they would stink. I was finally wrong after nearly a decade. I congratulate them on winning the Division finally. By the way it was a Division much weaker than when we won it in 2013 and 2014 and people want to say we only won because it was weak. I haven't seen 1 Post in here saying the Jags only won because it was weak. It was a terrible Division because the Colts and Texans were out of the equation by mid season due to not having their QB's. The Titans are ok but will get smoked by the Chiefs. So the Jags went 10-6 in a crap Division. I would bet my house on it that they get blown out by either the Steelers or Pats in the Divisional Round. They may not even get by the Bills and I really believe that.

[OLD FAN MAN]

19 minutes ago, WoolMagnet said:

I have a bigger problem with what we heard about him as a man.  How he was artogant , condescending and dismissive.  He certainly tried to address the OL. The FA contracts didnt hurt us in future.  I think the guy has talent, just not a people person.

  I really like the guy Ballard portrays, whether its an act or not.

lets face it, the vast majority of players drafter are average at best.  Its really difficult to predict not only athletic success, but how they'll handle the success ($), how hard they will study, work,etc.

every team has misses, every year it seems, even in the 1at.

very hard to get game changers or even starters in the draft, many do not stay in the nfl long, draft is a crapshoot

[Coltsman1788]

1 minute ago, GoColts8818 said:

He was the next sure thing coming out of college and was top five until he got hurt. It takes more than a QB to make a great team.

Polian had the better building block in Peyton. Not apparent on draft day but proven over time thus far. 

 

And Luck wasn’t Top 5 before he got hurt.  Peyton, Brady, Rogers, Brees, and Big Ben were all above him at the time at a minimum.  Even Russell Wilson and Cam Newton have had more on the field success with less injuries.  Now there are also younger lions like D. Carr, Wentz, etc. to contend with.  Luck has a lot of work to do upon his return to earn the top of the league type accolades that once seemed to be his birth right.   Not saying he can’t or won’t get there but he isn’t top of the league right now. 

[GoColts8818]

4 minutes ago, Coltsman1788 said:

Polian had the better building block in Peyton. Not apparent on draft day but proven over time thus far. 

 

And Luck wasn’t Top 5 before he got hurt.  Peyton, Brady, Rogers, Brees, and Big Ben were all above him at the time at a minimum.  Even Russell Wilson and Cam Newton have had more on the field success with less injuries.  Now there are also younger lions like D. Carr, Wentz, etc. to contend with.  Luck has a lot of work to do upon his return to earn the top of the league type accolades that once seemed to be his birth right.   Not saying he can’t or won’t get there but he isn’t top of the league right now. 

Luck was top five last year while playing hurt.  Russell Wilson has more team success than Luck but not overall.  Cam has one great season he can point to that’s better than Luck.

 

There were two guys from before Manning got here that were key to Success while Manning was here, Glenn and Marvin.  The rest Polian brought in.  

[Coltsman1788]

15 minutes ago, GoColts8818 said:

Luck was top five last year while playing hurt.  Russell Wilson has more team success than Luck but not overall.  Cam has one great season he can point to that’s better than Luck.

 

There were two guys from before Manning got here that were key to Success while Manning was here, Glenn and Marvin.  The rest Polian brought in.  

Luck played injured last season but actually also got injured the season before that.  Last year Luck still put up pretty good numbers.  He still turned the ball over too much and that hurt his QBR which was not Top 5 caliber.  The year before that his numbers weren’t great primarily because he played less than half the season.  You don’t miss one and a half seasons and get to still maintain an alleged top 5 ranking.  At best top 5 was only arguable before injury. He turned the ball over too much to be top 5 in the league.  I don’t want to come off as Luck bashing because he is our guy and I like him.  But it is what it is right now.  I think he still has an opportunity to get to top 5 or better status provided he is able to recover from his shoulder injury. 

[GoColts8818]

13 minutes ago, Coltsman1788 said:

Luck played injured last season but actually also got injured the season before that.  Last year Luck still put up pretty good numbers.  He still turned the ball over too much and that hurt his QBR which was not Top 5 caliber.  The year before that his numbers weren’t great primarily because he played less than half the season.  You don’t miss one and a half seasons and get to still maintain an alleged top 5 ranking.  At best top 5 was only arguable before injury. He turned the ball over too much to be top 5 in the league.  I don’t want to come off as Luck bashing because he is our guy and I like him.  But it is what it is right now.  I think he still has an opportunity to get to top 5 or better status provided he is able to recover from his shoulder injury. 

So either way Grigson had a QB who was atleast in the ball park of Manning potential wise and messed it up.  Which goes back to my orginal point it takes more than a great QB to make a team.  Polian did that here beyond just Manning and also did it in Buffalo and Carolina.  He was a special GM but a lot of fans like to not give him the credit he deserves here for some reason.  The Colts had the unique situation of having a Hall of Fame GM, Coach, and QB and they ALL played a major factors in the Colts success during the Manning era.  Without any of them they wouldn’t have been nearly as succesful.

 

 

[dgambill]

1 hour ago, HectorRoberts said:

WR that year was the last thing people thought we needed, we had Hilton, Andre Johnson, Moncrief coming off his rookie year, Griff Whalen, and duron carter. Before that draft I and many other members here thought that wr was our strongest position.

And you were wrong...and it has since gotten even worse. A good GM sees and plans and takes players that aren’t just suppose to fix a problem for the current year but the future. Grigson just didn’t draft a good wr. It’s like being short sighted and taking a need instead of seeing Johnson was a year away from being over the hill, moncrief being injury prone, and Whalen just being another guy. We might have looked like we were ok but it was clear we had issues long term at wr.

[dgambill]

1 hour ago, HectorRoberts said:

My Deep hatred for Irsay came right after he cut peyton and fired Caldwell/Polian...

i just don’t understand how he could jump ship on those 3 who have done so much for him over the years  but had 1 down season. I have no doubt that we could have 1 or even 2 more Super Bowls if he would have kept those 3.

Possibly...But impossible to tell. I know I wanted to keep Peyton at the time and use the pick to trade and load up. I actually wanted to draft Russell Wilson and let him be our back up. That probably would have just ruined Peyton and Russell’s legacy though so what do I know but I know you weren’t alone in thinking that. Hearing Peyton was coming back and going to be our qb all year by Irsay and then get cut really hurt I won’t lie. Still hoping it all works out with Luck but the what if still lingers. Certainly Bill and Jim couldn’t have done much worse to the organization then Chuck and Ryan did.

[The Fish]

6 minutes ago, dgambill said:

Certainly Bill and Jim couldn’t have done much worse to the organization then Chuck and Ryan did.

 

Polian had a few drafts at the end that were pretty un-good leading up to Grigson showing up and doing things like trading 1's for Trent Richardson and drafting Bjorn Werner. Jim was exposed as a much lesser coach than even ole' Chuck in 11' for my buck. That was a really out of hand. This 3-11 season was a walk in the park compared to that- even though both are pretty over the top with the drama around it.

Anyway, not that it needs said but they all earned their ouster

[will426]

3 hours ago, Coltfreak said:

A different offenseive scheme would do wonders to improve the Oline 

One that implements zone stretch lol god I laughed when we tried those with Gore and expected him to take off 

[will426]

2 hours ago, ReMeDy said:

I think we need a good o-line coach first and foremost to develop talent on-site. It's no coincidence the Patriots can protect Brady as well as they do; it's because of good coaching and an offense that knows how to get rid of the ball quickly when it counts.
 

That's why I'm also in support of Josh McDaniels as head coach. He's developed QB's and knows how to protect them through efficient offensive playcalling.

Exactly except everyone wants to bring up his falling out in Denver instead of how he could help the offense score and protect Luck 

[Coltsman1788]

48 minutes ago, GoColts8818 said:

So either way Grigson had a QB who was atleast in the ball park of Manning potential wise and messed it up.  Which goes back to my orginal point it takes more than a great QB to make a team.  Polian did that here beyond just Manning and also did it in Buffalo and Carolina.  He was a special GM but a lot of fans like to not give him the credit he deserves here for some reason.  The Colts had the unique situation of having a Hall of Fame GM, Coach, and QB and they ALL played a major factors in the Colts success during the Manning era.  Without any of them they wouldn’t have been nearly as succesful.

 

 

Ok I definitely agree with all of that.  Just don’t agree Luck is Top 5 yet.  He still has the potential if healthy.

[aaron11]

10 hours ago, Coltsman1788 said:

Luck played injured last season but actually also got injured the season before that.  Last year Luck still put up pretty good numbers.  He still turned the ball over too much and that hurt his QBR which was not Top 5 caliber.  The year before that his numbers weren’t great primarily because he played less than half the season.  You don’t miss one and a half seasons and get to still maintain an alleged top 5 ranking.  At best top 5 was only arguable before injury. He turned the ball over too much to be top 5 in the league.  I don’t want to come off as Luck bashing because he is our guy and I like him.  But it is what it is right now.  I think he still has an opportunity to get to top 5 or better status provided he is able to recover from his shoulder injury. 

PFF had luck at third last year, i believe he was top 5 when we went to the AFC title game too

[jskinnz]

12 hours ago, crazycolt1 said:

Yes Poilian was a great GM in building great offenses. With that said he didn't have a good record with building winning super bowl teams. He was possessed with thinking a great offense could win the super bowl and never learned from his mistakes. Fun to watch teams that don't win super bowls is what the Bills and the Colts ended up being.

 

I think this is just a false narrative regarding Polian.

 

Would winning one more Super Bowl changed the view of him?  

 

If Norwood's kick is 18 inches to the left, Buffalo wins one.  If Manning does not throw the pick 6 or if Bassett recovers the onside kick, his team may have won another.  

 

The more realistic view is that his really good teams happened to coincide with the Cowboy and Pats dynasties with truly great head coaches.  Those teams were (and still are in the Pats case) just hard to beat.

 

[Coltsman1788]

1 hour ago, aaron11 said:

PFF had luck at third last year, i believe he was top 5 when we went to the AFC title game too

Ok...so let’s assume he was Top 5 in 2 out of 6 seasons or for one third of his career.  So that’s 2 top 5 seasons, two good but not top 5 caliber seasons and essentially 2 seasons marred by injuries.  That’s still not a Top 5 overall QB to me. Hard for him to get that status right now missing as many games as he has so early into his career.  I think he has potential to consistently be a top 5 QB in this league if he can successfully return from injury and cut down on the turnovers.  He has all of the physical and mental tools that he needs but he has to continue to grind. Also Ballard and the front office must put what he needs around him. 

[LJpalmbeacher2]

13 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

The Rams were able to make the jump because only one half of the team needed fixing --- the offense.

 

The Defense was loaded with talent,  and then they added one of the best DC's of all time.

 

So, the fixed their offense and made a big jump at the same time that Seattle and Arizona both faded.

 

The Colts are not going to get that lucky because we have big needs on both sides of the ball.    We don't have to fix one side of the field,  we have to fix both sides.     Not an easy job.

 

J'Ville is much better than you think they are.    You're in the extreme minority on this one even if you're right on Borltes.   This is a much better team than you realize.

 

Too many fans here are wishing and hoping and not looking closely.    Other teams are further along than the Colts are.   We have much more ground to catch up.     And while it's not impossible,  it's not likely to be done in one season.

 

Polian has a decent idea of what he's talking about....

 

No Doubt Colts have plenty of needs and are seriously lacking in talent. 

 

However, we still managed 4 wins and were in most games. In fact we led at halftime in most games. Imo, if we had a good experiences QB we would have won enough games to have contended for the division despite the horrid coaching & playcalling. 

 

With better coaching, good FA signings, a better Draft than last year AND Luck back I have no doubt we can contend in AFC South in 2018.

 

We won't be Pats/Steelers caliber, but we can compete with the rest of the very weak AFC Conference. The rest of the teams STINK! Evidence by our competitive play this year despite all of our shortcomings. It doesn't take much to compete with most teams in AFC. 

[dudeski]

14 hours ago, HectorRoberts said:

My Deep hatred for Irsay came right after he cut peyton and fired Caldwell/Polian...

i just don’t understand how he could jump ship on those 3 who have done so much for him over the years  but had 1 down season. I have no doubt that we could have 1 or even 2 more Super Bowls if he would have kept those 3.

caldwell was terrible and so was chris polian.

 

taking Luck was the right move.  

[crazycolt1]

2 hours ago, jskinnz said:

 

I think this is just a false narrative regarding Polian.

 

Would winning one more Super Bowl changed the view of him?  

 

If Norwood's kick is 18 inches to the left, Buffalo wins one.  If Manning does not throw the pick 6 or if Bassett recovers the onside kick, his team may have won another.  

 

The more realistic view is that his really good teams happened to coincide with the Cowboy and Pats dynasties with truly great head coaches.  Those teams were (and still are in the Pats case) just hard to beat.

 

False narrative?  Are you discounting the facts of how many playoff games were lost by the Colts where they never got to the point of playing the Patriots? How many playoffs games were lost when Manning had the lead going into the 4th quarter or had the team in a position to win in the 4th quarter just to see the poor defense and or poor special teams play give the game away?

As far as the Bills yes they were in position to win with a Norwood kick that was missed but that don't account for the other two trips to the super bowl.

[aaron11]

2 hours ago, Coltsman1788 said:

Ok...so let’s assume he was Top 5 in 2 out of 6 seasons or for one third of his career.  So that’s 2 top 5 seasons, two good but not top 5 caliber seasons and essentially 2 seasons marred by injuries.  That’s still not a Top 5 overall QB to me. Hard for him to get that status right now missing as many games as he has so early into his career.  I think he has potential to consistently be a top 5 QB in this league if he can successfully return from injury and cut down on the turnovers.  He has all of the physical and mental tools that he needs but he has to continue to grind. Also Ballard and the front office must put what he needs around him. 

to me top 5 is a year to year thing, you cant be that if you are not on the field.  i dont swear by pff either, i think he deserved it last year

 

luck will be in the running as long hes healthy 

[NewColtsFan]

2 hours ago, LJpalmbeacher2 said:

No Doubt Colts have plenty of needs and are seriously lacking in talent. 

 

However, we still managed 4 wins and were in most games. In fact we led at halftime in most games. Imo, if we had a good experiences QB we would have won enough games to have contended for the division despite the horrid coaching & playcalling. 

 

With better coaching, good FA signings, a better Draft than last year AND Luck back I have no doubt we can contend in AFC South in 2018.

 

We won't be Pats/Steelers caliber, but we can compete with the rest of the very weak AFC Conference. The rest of the teams STINK! Evidence by our competitive play this year despite all of our shortcomings. It doesn't take much to compete with most teams in AFC. 

 

The rest of the teams DONT stink.   Fans here have been saying that for so many years they can't seem to stop saying that.

 

It's not true.

 

Jacksonville does not stink.

Tennessee does not stink.

Houston does not stink.

 

These teams may not be great, but they do not stink.    There's a difference between having a bad season and stinking.

 

Cleveland stinks.    There's a team that is terrible....    Otherwise....   no.   Sorry.

 

 

 

[LJpalmbeacher2]

1 minute ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

The rest of the teams DONT stink.   Fans here have been saying that for so many years they can't seem to stop saying that.

 

It's not true.

 

Jacksonville does not stink.

Tennessee does not stink.

Houston does not stink.

 

These teams may not be great, but they do not stink.    There's a difference between having a bad season and stinking.

 

Cleveland stinks.    There's a team that is terrible....    Otherwise....   no.   Sorry.

 

 

 

I wasn't talking about our division. I know it has improved. I was talking more about the AFC in general,other than Pats & Steelers. 

 

A good off season,  coaching included, can get us back to playoff contenders. Which again imo, isn't necessarily saying that much in our conference. Lol.