Stat Regarding Quenton Nelson's pass blocking

[richard pallo]

19 minutes ago, BProland85 said:

 

I think Nelson could be had around pick 8-12. That being said, I'd trade down even if we were picking 5th overall. Ballard needs all the draft picks he can get to improve this roster, and I believe Nelson could still be had after trading back 5 spots or so. 

I don't know if he will fall that far.  There are many teams looking for OL help and it looks like he is going to grade out as one of the premium picks.  If we have the second pick we will surely trade back.  If we are at 3 it's anybody's guess what we will do.  4 or 5 I can see us taking him. 

[BProland85]

50 minutes ago, richard pallo said:

I don't know if he will fall that far.  There are many teams looking for OL help and it looks like he is going to grade out as one of the premium picks.  If we have the second pick we will surely trade back.  If we are at 3 it's anybody's guess what we will do.  4 or 5 I can see us taking him. 

 

When's the last time a OG was taken top 5 though? I know Nelson is a great prospect, but it rarely ever happens. 

[Aluckiswolverine]

If Ballard is serious about protecting luck you have to take Nelson. Reading he is a cant miss,multi pro bowl / safest pick of the draft. 

[Surge89]

I like Williams and Brown more than Nelson.  Guards aren't taken in the top 5 or 10 for good reason. I'd rather pay the high rookie payment to a good chance at tackle than a good chance at guard. 

[Valpo2004]

On 12/12/2017 at 6:15 PM, The Peytonator said:

 

Yeah man I really believe that being a GM or scout has a large element of luck involved. These guys miss on players ALL the time. Even good ones are gonna draft a lot of busts. Most offseasons I do a little amateur scouting like a lot of us here, and not to sound like I think I’m smart, but I feel I’ve done a solid job on determining which players are gonna turn out good versus which ones bust. One thing I can guarantee is that I would have put our first round picks to much greater use than Grigson did during his tenure, and he was making millions while I was watching draftbreakdown cut ups. 

 

I agree there is certainly a lot of luck or at the very least a lot of things happen that no one could foresee.  But I also know there are so many obviously bad decisions in the league that a lot of people see ahead of time as bad decisions that I don't feel like a well informed fan who now has the time to watch tons of film (cause it's his full time job now) and the ability to listen to scouts, talk to college coaches and all that stuff that GM's can do would be in any way worse then the management we see of a lot of teams.  

[Defjamz26]

On 12/13/2017 at 11:34 AM, BProland85 said:

 

When's the last time a OG was taken top 5 though? I know Nelson is a great prospect, but it rarely ever happens. 

Why shouldn’t it happen though? He’s that good. Every situation is different.

[BProland85]

1 hour ago, Defjamz26 said:

Why shouldn’t it happen though? He’s that good. Every situation is different.

 

OGs usually don't impact the game as much as pass rushers, OTs, CBs, etc. no matter how good they are. If I were forced to take a player and didn't have a trade down option at picks 3-5, I'd probably take Bradley Chubb if Ballard was confident he would fit our new coaches' scheme. 

 

But my first choice is to find a team like New York Jets, AZ, Cleveland, Denver, or another dark horse team to trade a good number of picks to move up. Then after the trade down get value in taking someone like Nelson at OG. 

[csmopar]

18 minutes ago, BProland85 said:

 

OGs usually don't impact the game as much as pass rushers, OTs, CBs, etc. no matter how good they are. If I were forced to take a player and didn't have a trade down option at picks 3-5, I'd probably take Bradley Chubb if Ballard was confident he would fit our new coaches' scheme. 

 

But my first choice is to find a team like New York Jets, AZ, Cleveland, Denver, or another dark horse team to trade a good number of picks to move up. Then after the trade down get value in taking someone like Nelson at OG. 

and what if Chubb is taken at 2 and we have no trade down partners?

[Defjamz26]

1 hour ago, BProland85 said:

 

OGs usually don't impact the game as much as pass rushers, OTs, CBs, etc. no matter how good they are. If I were forced to take a player and didn't have a trade down option at picks 3-5, I'd probably take Bradley Chubb if Ballard was confident he would fit our new coaches' scheme. 

 

But my first choice is to find a team like New York Jets, AZ, Cleveland, Denver, or another dark horse team to trade a good number of picks to move up. Then after the trade down get value in taking someone like Nelson at OG. 

Guys like Nelson are safe picks though. The big time pass rushers, CBs, and OT's taken in the top 5-10 are usually the guys who also tend to bust more. I say you always go with the blue chip player. That's how we ended up with Hooker. I want to draft guys that are undisputed in their position. Nelson is the equivalent to a Myles Garrett, Jaylen Ramsey, or Leonard Fournette. The consensus blue chip players who can succeed anywhere. When you pass over those players because of things like perceived positional value, need, etc.. you increase your chances of drafting busts. This is why all NFL GM's have a BPA (within reason) approach. The goal with drafting is to fill your team with as many elite players as possible. We didn't need Hooker as much as we would have benefited from Garrett Bolles for example, but we went with the BPA and got a guy who was on a path to DROY as a result.

[throwing BBZ]

So watch some tape.

 

I ask you to look with a critical eye.

What is his athleticism? Suddenness, quickness, speed?
Strength.

Power, Endurance
Mental alertness/FB IQ
 And come back a week later and watch again to confirm your thoughts.

Now, how do you feel his not yet finished developed skills will affect a game over 60 minutes.

[richard pallo]

2 hours ago, BProland85 said:

 

OGs usually don't impact the game as much as pass rushers, OTs, CBs, etc. no matter how good they are. If I were forced to take a player and didn't have a trade down option at picks 3-5, I'd probably take Bradley Chubb if Ballard was confident he would fit our new coaches' scheme. 

 

But my first choice is to find a team like New York Jets, AZ, Cleveland, Denver, or another dark horse team to trade a good number of picks to move up. Then after the trade down get value in taking someone like Nelson at OG. 

I would think that not having Luck for a year would be good enough reason to throw out conventional wisdom and draft a prospect like Nelson.  Luck is our most important player and we need to do everything possible this off season to help him.  Trading down would be ideal but there is no guarantee of that happening.  Chubb is not considered an elite prospect but Nelson is.  I would take Nelson over Chubb unless Ballard really hits a home run in FA and acquires two quality starting guards. 

[BProland85]

Quenton Nelson, a Beast among boys...

 

 

[dgambill]

I like Nelson but only if we move back or somehow win our last couple games. I'd value him right around the 6-10 range. I don't think I could put his potential in the top 5 even if he is a safe pick. Remember Kelly was a safe pick too but he has only marginally helped the OL....Person has stepped in and done almost as good a job as Kelly. I want a great OL for sure but it takes a whole unit to ensure that and when I'm looking at a top 5 pick...I want someone that isn't dependent of others to succeed and make a difference. I want a LB that can get side line to side line and cover. I want a shut down corner. I want a dominant pass rusher. I want a franchise qb. I want a wr that can go up and get 50/50 balls and is almost uncoverable. I want a franchise LT that will protect the qbs blind side no matter what. A guard.....that's a bit of a reach...yes a dominant guard is great but that still doesn't protect your qb from an edge rusher....and yes they open up holes in the running game and often pull but I think I can find great guard play later in the draft...or I can fill it with a good but not great tackle prospect who may not have the feet to play on the edge against speed. Again...nothing against the kid...he just doesn't play a premium position so it knocks down his value in MY eyes. Ballard may see it differently and that is just fine...I trust him a lot more than an arm chair GM any day. I think if we are in the top 5 and we keep the pick we go after a dominant playmaker on defense or a corner stone left tackle. Maybe we do pick Barkley if they have him that high because of all the things he can do on the football field (I value the trenches more personally). I'm fully in favor of trading back if it nets us a future first rd pick or an extra this year. As long as we get good value we have a lot of needs...but if we stay at the top....I need an impact player...and even if Nelson is great...a guard alone is limited on the impact they can have....that's just my honest perception.

[BOTT]

On 12/12/2017 at 7:13 AM, Dark Superman said:

If we pick at 3 how can you pass up on Barkley?

Placing Barkley into this offense with Luck would be huge not only for Luck, but this entire offense.

You will find out how easy it is for the Colts to pass on Barkley come draft day.

[Colts_Fan12]

On 12/14/2017 at 1:17 PM, Defjamz26 said:

Why shouldn’t it happen though? He’s that good. Every situation is different.

People will always complain about this but when he is destroying the league like Martin they will cry and whine about how they wish we had a beast like that on the line 

[Defjamz26]

On 12/19/2017 at 8:44 PM, BProland85 said:

Quenton Nelson, a Beast among boys...

 

 

His highlights on YouTube are him just burying people into the turf and it’s glorious. He’s a nasty player who looks to punish everyone he comes into contact with. We haven’t had a player like that since Bob Sanders.

[Y2Jared]

I am really hoping Ballard can trade down with his old pal and mentor Dorsey with the Brown's and pick up a draft pick or two and select at 5 or 6.  I am all in on drafting Nelson.  We have to protect #12 at all costs.  Its a lost season without him. 

[esmort]

Stop the insanity... you don't take a guard at #3... especially when you have as many needs as the Colts. A guard no matter how elite is not going to have the same impact as as premium position player. He plays the least valuable position within a unit that requires 5 working together to be good. Even if he always took care of his guy it wouldn't stop the pass rush from the edges, where most of the elite rushers will be coming from. 

 

I would much rather overpay a couple of guards(even if they are just good and not elite) in FA and draft the premium. position player/s. 

[2006Coltsbestever]

15 minutes ago, esmort said:

Stop the insanity... you don't take a guard at #3... especially when you have as many needs as the Colts. A guard no matter how elite is not going to have the same impact as as premium position player. He plays the least valuable position within a unit that requires 5 working together to be good. Even if he always took care of his guy it wouldn't stop the pass rush from the edges, where most of the elite rushers will be coming from. 

 

I would much rather overpay a couple of guards(even if they are just good and not elite) in FA and draft the premium. position player/s. 

Not a sexy pick I know but building a wall around Andrew is critical and that would just be another piece, perhaps a Great one to go with Kelly to do that. Of course the sexy pick would be Barkley.

[Dark Superman]

Nelson or Williams would be great fits for Indianapolis.

[ty4atd]

I know it's only 1 game and I have a lot more tape to watch, but I watched Nelson in ND vs Miami and I didn't come away very impressed. Right now I'd rather Barkley, Fitzpatrick, Chubb or Key in Rd1 and Billy Price in Rd2 than Nelson and someone else at one of those higher value positions.

[BOTT]

On 12/21/2017 at 2:52 AM, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Not a sexy pick I know but building a wall around Andrew is critical and that would just be another piece, perhaps a Great one to go with Kelly to do that. Of course the sexy pick would be Barkley.

While the offensive line needs a talent upgrade, I believe the bigger problem may be the offensive scheme and poor coaching.  The colts offensive line hasn't been able to hasn't been able to recognize and thwart a stunt for 4 years.  The players are either very thick in the skull, or not being coached properly.

[ty4atd]

For people saying he won't last till 10-12 if we do trade down, go look at some of David DeCastro's scouting reports before the draft they are pretty identical to Nelson's and DeCastro was picked 24th. Each draft is different but teams just don't value guards very highly.

[krunk]

My gut says Ballard will have a higher grade on Arden Key than some of yall are giving. Especially in comparison with a Guard. Albeit a very good guard.

[ponyboy]

On 12/5/2017 at 1:17 PM, NewColtsFan said:

 

The only real problem with Nelson is NOT Nelson's fault.

 

He's a guard.     Do you really want to use a premium draft pick,   top-10,   on a non-premium position.

 

 

Not the #2 or #3, but in *this draft*, yes I would take Nelson with something around #6-#10.  The #2 and #3 picks are trade spots for the Colts in this draft.

 

I just don't think there are any elite players at the premium positions in this one.   If there were an elite pass rusher or OT, I would take them with #2 or #3, but I'm not seeing it.

 

[ponyboy]

Just now, ponyboy said:

 

Not the #2 or #3, but in *this draft*, yes I would take Nelson with something around #6-#10.  The #2 and #3 picks are trade spots for the Colts in this draft.

 

I just don't think there are any elite players at the premium positions in this one.   If there were an elite pass rusher or OT, I would take them with #2 or #3, but I'm not seeing it.

 

 

I'll go ahead and spoil it for everybody.. SPOILER ALERT... if you don't want to know how it turns out stop now.

 

Colts trade #2 to NYG for #3, #34 (2018) and 4th (2019).

Giant want the the 2nd QB badly and so do others.  They have to trade up to get their guy.

 

Colts trade #3 to CLE for #4, and #38 (2018).

CLE badly wants Barkley and so does SF.  CLE has to cough up a pick to keep SF from trading in front.

 

Colts trade #4 to DEN for #8, #40, and 2nd (2019)

NYJ, DEN, ARI, BUF are bidding for the 3rd QB.  It's a run on QBs.

 

Colts trade #8 to NYJ for #9, 2nd (2019)

ARI, NYJ, BUF still interested in 4th QB.

 

Colts take Nelson at #9

[JMichael557]

That would be good

[richard pallo]

1 hour ago, ponyboy said:

 

I'll go ahead and spoil it for everybody.. SPOILER ALERT... if you don't want to know how it turns out stop now.

 

Colts trade #2 to NYG for #3, #34 (2018) and 4th (2019).

Giant want the the 2nd QB badly and so do others.  They have to trade up to get their guy.

 

Colts trade #3 to CLE for #4, and #38 (2018).

CLE badly wants Barkley and so does SF.  CLE has to cough up a pick to keep SF from trading in front.

 

Colts trade #4 to DEN for #8, #40, and 2nd (2019)

NYJ, DEN, ARI, BUF are bidding for the 3rd QB.  It's a run on QBs.

 

Colts trade #8 to NYJ for #9, 2nd (2019)

ARI, NYJ, BUF still interested in 4th QB.

 

Colts take Nelson at #9

Digg it!

[NewColtsFan]

1 hour ago, ponyboy said:

 

I'll go ahead and spoil it for everybody.. SPOILER ALERT... if you don't want to know how it turns out stop now.

 

Colts trade #2 to NYG for #3, #34 (2018) and 4th (2019).

Giant want the the 2nd QB badly and so do others.  They have to trade up to get their guy.

 

Colts trade #3 to CLE for #4, and #38 (2018).

CLE badly wants Barkley and so does SF.  CLE has to cough up a pick to keep SF from trading in front.

 

Colts trade #4 to DEN for #8, #40, and 2nd (2019)

NYJ, DEN, ARI, BUF are bidding for the 3rd QB.  It's a run on QBs.

 

Colts trade #8 to NYJ for #9, 2nd (2019)

ARI, NYJ, BUF still interested in 4th QB.

 

Colts take Nelson at #9

 

I think I love you!!     .  

 

This is might be one of my favorite posts of ALL TIME!!    

 

And so so you deserve my highest honor I can give....

 

         

 

I only wish we still had the emoticon that showed the guy on his knees bowing with his arms out stretched...    as if to say I acknowledge your true GENIUS!!   And I'm not worthy!

 

 

 

 

[krunk]

I think when all the combine stuff is over Arden Key is going to be pretty high up there. I can't see him being drafted lower than Leonard Floyd did. I dont want to hear the Barkevious Mingo nonsense. Hes a better ball player than KiKi. I'd take him over Nelson. Plenty of room left to get a very good guard after that. I wouldn't be surprised if the position is not already very much addressed before the draft starts to be honest.

[krunk]

I wouldn't take Nelson over Key or Chubb

[ClaytonColt]

This reminds me of the discussions surrounding taking Kelly at 18. He's a fine player who was going to come in and cement the offensive line,  we were going to have 100 yard rushers every week and Luck was going to be unhindered in the pocket.

 

Couple of years down the line and there is little discernable difference between when Kelly or Person is in the team. It makes hardly any influence on results.

 

That doesn't mean that Kelly is a bad player - he certainly isn't - but getting good line play is about more than just pure talent and acquiring players at a level above the usual landing spot for their position in the draft. 

 

Until we can actually develop these players both individually and collectively into a coherent unit then we're still going to end up with free rushers getting to the quarterback and mismatches not being recognized at the LoS. 

 

I think Nelson looks a good prospect but I don't think he slots in and fixes the line to the extent that is being discussed. I also don't think he has the impact on results that you would want from a top 5 pick purely because of the position he plays. For those reasons I would go in a different direction.

[stitches]

14 hours ago, krunk said:

My gut says Ballard will have a higher grade on Arden Key than some of yall are giving. Especially in comparison with a Guard. Albeit a very good guard.

IMO Arden Key is just about to jump on boards. The pre-draft process is made for him. Measurements, combine athletic testing, one-on-one drills in private workouts... those are all things that he should excel at and open some eyes with. What I'm wondering is if his character/attitude profile will hold up to GMs examination. IMO this is what will make or break his draft stock ultimately. 

[stitches]

7 hours ago, krunk said:

I wouldn't take Nelson over Key or Chubb

What about Landry? What do you think about him? In a way he's probably the best fit for the 34 system. I'm so torn on him... it's unreal. I cannot make up my mind... He gets me extremely excited on one play with Mack-like burst and bend and then the next 3 he seems like he's just going through the motions.Then he sheds block seamlessly to make a tackle and in the next play he gets blown off the ball to allow 20 yard run. 

 

Some people suggest he was making business decisions this year and he didn't want to get hurt, but there isn't the same type of motor I saw from someone like Chubb, who is non-stop all the time effort guy.

[krunk]

6 hours ago, stitches said:

What about Landry? What do you think about him? In a way he's probably the best fit for the 34 system. I'm so torn on him... it's unreal. I cannot make up my mind... He gets me extremely excited on one play with Mack-like burst and bend and then the next 3 he seems like he's just going through the motions.Then he sheds block seamlessly to make a tackle and in the next play he gets blown off the ball to allow 20 yard run. 

 

Some people suggest he was making business decisions this year and he didn't want to get hurt, but there isn't the same type of motor I saw from someone like Chubb, who is non-stop all the time effort guy.

haven't studied Landry yet. I know he's not seen as high as Key and Chubb though

[Jdubu]

On 12/12/2017 at 6:15 PM, The Peytonator said:

 

Yeah man I really believe that being a GM or scout has a large element of luck involved. These guys miss on players ALL the time. Even good ones are gonna draft a lot of busts. Most offseasons I do a little amateur scouting like a lot of us here, and not to sound like I think I’m smart, but I feel I’ve done a solid job on determining which players are gonna turn out good versus which ones bust. One thing I can guarantee is that I would have put our first round picks to much greater use than Grigson did during his tenure, and he was making millions while I was watching draftbreakdown cut ups. 

What I think happens with some of these busts is they get in the wrong scheme for their talents. It is kind of a crap shoot yes but to get a very good player and putting him in a system that fits his strong suits as well as talent around him and a coach that can create, those are the things that generally gets you to the superstar level. Some guys are just freaks and can succeed in pretty much any scheme but I’d say that’s a 1% rarity. 

[Defjamz26]

4 hours ago, Jdubu said:

What I think happens with some of these busts is they get in the wrong scheme for their talents. It is kind of a crap shoot yes but to get a very good player and putting him in a system that fits his strong suits as well as talent around him and a coach that can create, those are the things that generally gets you to the superstar level. Some guys are just freaks and can succeed in pretty much any scheme but I’d say that’s a 1% rarity. 

That’s a testament to what Chris Carter said earlier this year. He said that probably 95% of the player in the NFL are probably system players and even he was one of them. That the other 5% are guys like LT or Jim Brown who could dominate in any scheme on any team.

[LockeDown]

Nelson could do everything right, but if Luck doesn't get the ball out any quicker, it won't matter. I'm of the opinion that our scheme is our downfall.  

[BOTT]

2 hours ago, LockeDown said:

Nelson could do everything right, but if Luck doesn't get the ball out any quicker, it won't matter. I'm of the opinion that our scheme is our downfall.  

 There is a rumor the colts are getting new coaches.

[LockeDown]

7 hours ago, BOTT said:

 There is a rumor the colts are getting new coaches.

Ah, but I remember when Pagano and Pep and Chud and Arians were new coaches too.  Luck held the ball too long for everyone.  New guys need to put.  

A cLock on him...