All Colts Head Coach Discussions (merge) The Indianapolis Colts Are Officially Eliminated From The 2017 Playoffs

[Myles]

9 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

I comment on websites like that because as a media guy I can spot bad websites and point them out in ways some here can not.    It helps to frame discussion and debate.

 

 

I think most websites should not be taken too seriously.    It's all opinion.   Media folks are mostly full of crud and have opinions that are no more meaningful that anyone couch potato. 

Just entertainment jobs or positions.

[Yoshinator]

22 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

Honest question.    Where else would I look?    Other Colts websites, or somewhere else?    

 

If you have a recommendation,  I'd be curious to know?

 

I have to say something, you say this is an uninformed fan base (which all are to an extent), however, you are doing it on probably the most intelligent Colt site on the internet. Go to facebook, ESPN, and some of the looser Colt sites and tell me the people on here are bad. You would be driven crazy by their stupidity. People are smart here for the most part, the frustration the last 3 years is just at an all time high, and it has shown this year. You have also turned into quite a bully lately when people are venting, just because they aren't 100% accurate. Not everyone was in the business like you, and not everyone shares the same opinion as you. You need to loosen up a bit. 

[Defjamz26]

Very interesting article from BR on coaching retreads and how teams keep getting duped into over-valuing guys just riding the coattails of a player or coach. Says to avoid McDaniels. Interesting read:

 

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2747938-the-one-mistake-nfl-teams-keep-making-again-and-again-and-again?share=other

[Roger]

11 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

You can choose to think if it as entertainment and casually dismiss it.   But the NFL is a multi billion dollar business.  People make thei livelihood on it.    As a former member of the media, I made my livelihood on covering news and entertainment.     So what might be entertainment to you is big important business to others.

 

Of course everyone is entitled to their own opinion.    No one would say otherwise.   But that doesn't mean all opinions are the same.   That doesn't mean all people have the same level of information or understanding.    I would think that would be obvious.    But maybe not......

 

And I didn't link sports opinions with intelligence.   I associate them with being informed or not.   There's a difference.....

 

 

Here is where you linked your own smartness:

"If you think that I'm not any smarter than anyone else then that's your right."

Being "informed" about sports is a lot different than being informed about physics, computer science or any other reality based field. Being a sports media type is about as impressive as working for a Hollywood tabloid.

 

[NewColtsFan]

13 minutes ago, Myles said:

 

I think most websites should not be taken too seriously.    It's all opinion.   Media folks are mostly full of crud and have opinions that are no more meaningful that anyone couch potato. 

Just entertainment jobs or positions.

 

That's your viewpoint.     But some websites are much much more than just opinions.   Many of them are filled with FACTS.   Those websites can inform and not just entertain.

 

information is important.    It offers context to understand things.   If you think media people, even bad ones are no more informed than any other couch potato, again that's your view.   You entitled to it.

 

I don't share that view.   I favor information over opinions.    Always have.

 

[RollerColt]

37 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

Honest question.    Where else would I look?    Other Colts websites, or somewhere else?    

 

If you have a recommendation,  I'd be curious to know?

 

Probably not the internet my friend. It's a harsh climate no matter what team you follow. I meant more of people in person.

 

Considering you live in LA, that may be hard for you. But there are many people I have met in life outside of the internet who use common sense and critical thinking. We're not all crazy in Indiana.

[RollerColt]

15 minutes ago, Jared Cisneros said:

I have to say something, you say this is an uninformed fan base (which all are to an extent), however, you are doing it on probably the most intelligent Colt site on the internet. Go to facebook, ESPN, and some of the looser Colt sites and tell me the people on here are bad.

Facebook has become such a cesspool for bigotry and trolling. I hate what has become of it...

[krunk]

13 minutes ago, Defjamz26 said:

Very interesting article from BR on coaching retreads and how teams keep getting duped into over-valuing guys just riding the coattails of a player or coach. Says to avoid McDaniels. Interesting read:

 

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2747938-the-one-mistake-nfl-teams-keep-making-again-and-again-and-again?share=other

Most of us want a change, but to be honest I really don't see a whole lot of worthy candidates that will be available.  I'll be interested to see what happens

[throwing BBZ]

31 minutes ago, Defjamz26 said:

Very interesting article from BR on coaching retreads and how teams keep getting duped into over-valuing guys just riding the coattails of a player or coach. Says to avoid McDaniels. Interesting read:

 

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2747938-the-one-mistake-nfl-teams-keep-making-again-and-again-and-again?share=other

 

       Well let's not hire any of these models of mediocrity. . 
    

[NewColtsFan]

31 minutes ago, Jared Cisneros said:

I have to say something, you say this is an uninformed fan base (which all are to an extent), however, you are doing it on probably the most intelligent Colt site on the internet. Go to facebook, ESPN, and some of the looser Colt sites and tell me the people on here are bad. You would be driven crazy by their stupidity. People are smart here for the most part, the frustration the last 3 years is just at an all time high, and it has shown this year. You have also turned into quite a bully lately when people are venting, just because they aren't 100% accurate. Not everyone was in the business like you, and not everyone shares the same opinion as you. You need to loosen up a bit. 

 

OK....

 

Lots of ground to cover here....     But I think you bit off more than you can chew....

 

I spend a lot of my time because I know this IS the BEST website for Colts fans.   I wouldn't spend my time here if it wasn't.  And I spend a LOT of my time here.   But  I don't spend a minute talking Colts anywhere else.    You're 100% right, those places are much worse.    We agree.      Yes, they'd drive me crazy, so I don't go there.   Or when I do,  I see that they're crazy and I leave...

 

There are a good number of terrific posters here that I love to read every day.    They are smart, well informed,  well reasoned.    They use information to form their viewpoint.    I learn from them.    And I enjoy that.   I woldn't be here without them.

 

But we're now going to get into the so-called "bully" issue,  because frankly,  I have had it with that.....    and with you, especially.

 

You are entitled to your opinion.     And I don't care a bit if we ever agree or not.    I've said that repeatedly since the day I arrived more than five years ago.....    You don't have to live to 60 to know that there is no issue that everyone agrees on.  

 

But here's what I DO care about.     That your opinion,  your argument,  at least be based on some type of facts.    So, when you post in a thread a week or so ago that Pagano doesn't like playing rookies,   and I take the time to prove that is wrong,  those are facts,  not opinions.    And then you turn around and make the exact same claim in another thread this week,  and I again prove it wrong,  those are facts,  not opinions.      What you call being bullied is you feeling foolish and silly that I've proven you wrong.   Again.   That's what facts do.    They prove bad opinions wrong.

 

And when I further point out that if Pagano is so bad then why are there no young players who you think he's ruined that go elsewhere and turn into something?     All the players that Pagano didn't play much who went elsewhere are back-ups there too.   Or they are completely out of football.   They didn't get better being on a different team.      Again,  those are facts.     You don't like that because it takes the wind out of your sails that "Pagano sucks!"

 

Now, you don't have to change your mind for me or anyone else.    But if you say that in your opinion 1+1=3, well, that's your opinion.    But it's wrong.   And it will always be wrong even if no one says so.    That's a fact.

 

 

 

[NewColtsFan]

45 minutes ago, Roger said:

Here is where you linked your own smartness:

"If you think that I'm not any smarter than anyone else then that's your right."

Being "informed" about sports is a lot different than being informed about physics, computer science or any other reality based field. Being a sports media type is about as impressive as working for a Hollywood tabloid.

 

 

Again....

 

That's your opinion.     You're entitled to it.

 

I just happen to disagree.

 

[NewColtsFan]

46 minutes ago, RollerColt said:

Probably not the internet my friend. It's a harsh climate no matter what team you follow. I meant more of people in person.

 

Considering you live in LA, that may be hard for you. But there are many people I have met in life outside of the internet who use common sense and critical thinking. We're not all crazy in Indiana.

 

Great post!

 

And there are a small number of Colts fans here in So. Cal and they all seem great.

 

And I don't think of the people in Indiana as crazy.     Not at all.     In fact I've grown quite fond of the state and the people.     I've learned about the city and state since becoming a Colts fan.     I'm happy being a Colts fan.    I hope in my lifetime to come to Indiana and take in a game or two at Lucas Oil.     And I'd LOVE to meet people from this website at a tailgate before AND after the game!      I think it'd be great fun.   

 

And I really hope that happens.....

 

[Yoshinator]

13 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

OK....

 

Lots of ground to cover here....     But I think you bit off more than you can chew....

 

I spend a lot of my time because I know this IS the BEST website for Colts fans.   I wouldn't spend my time here if it wasn't.  And I spend a LOT of my time here.   But  I don't spend a minute talking Colts anywhere else.    You're 100% right, those places are much worse.    We agree.      Yes, they'd drive me crazy, so I don't go there.   Or when I do,  I see that they're crazy and I leave...

 

There are a good number of terrific posters here that I love to read every day.    They are smart, well informed,  well reasoned.    They use information to form their viewpoint.    I learn from them.    And I enjoy that.   I woldn't be here without them.

 

But we're now going to get into the so-called "bully" issue,  because frankly,  I have had it with that.....    and with you, especially.

 

You are entitled to your opinion.     And I don't care a bit if we ever agree or not.    I've said that repeatedly since the day I arrived more than five years ago.....    You don't have to live to 60 to know that there is no issue that everyone agrees on.  

 

But here's what I DO care about.     That your opinion,  your argument,  at least be based on some type of facts.    So, when you post in a thread a week or so ago that Pagano doesn't like playing rookies,   and I take the time to prove that is wrong,  those are facts,  not opinions.    And then you turn around and make the exact same claim in another thread this week,  and I again prove it wrong,  those are facts,  not opinions.      What you call being bullied is you feeling foolish and silly that I've proven you wrong.   Again.   That's what facts do.    They prove bad opinions wrong.

 

And when I further point out that if Pagano is so bad then why are there no young players who you think he's ruined that go elsewhere and turn into something?     All the players that Pagano didn't play much who went elsewhere are back-ups there too.   Or they are completely out of football.   They didn't get better being on a different team.      Again,  those are facts.     You don't like that because it takes the wind out of your sails that "Pagano sucks!"

 

Now, you don't have to change your mind for me or anyone else.    But if you say that in your opinion 1+1=3, well, that's your opinion.    But it's wrong.   And it will always be wrong even if no one says so.    That's a fact.

 

 

 

I'm not just talking about me, I'm talking about how you've been doing it to everyone that has been venting and is upset about how this team is performing. You want facts? The year that Pagano left Baltimore, they won the SB. More facts? Pagano has never beat NE or Pitt in 6 years. He is an average coach WITH Andrew Luck. He is Gus Bradley without him. You even lie and give him credit for the first season when Arians was 9-3 and Pagano coached 4 games. You wonder why media types get a bad name? Look at your personality lately.

[Corndog]

27 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

OK....

 

Lots of ground to cover here....     But I think you bit off more than you can chew....

 

I spend a lot of my time because I know this IS the BEST website for Colts fans.   I wouldn't spend my time here if it wasn't.  And I spend a LOT of my time here.   But  I don't spend a minute talking Colts anywhere else.    You're 100% right, those places are much worse.    We agree.      Yes, they'd drive me crazy, so I don't go there.   Or when I do,  I see that they're crazy and I leave...

 

There are a good number of terrific posters here that I love to read every day.    They are smart, well informed,  well reasoned.    They use information to form their viewpoint.    I learn from them.    And I enjoy that.   I woldn't be here without them.

 

But we're now going to get into the so-called "bully" issue,  because frankly,  I have had it with that.....    and with you, especially.

 

You are entitled to your opinion.     And I don't care a bit if we ever agree or not.    I've said that repeatedly since the day I arrived more than five years ago.....    You don't have to live to 60 to know that there is no issue that everyone agrees on.  

 

But here's what I DO care about.     That your opinion,  your argument,  at least be based on some type of facts.    So, when you post in a thread a week or so ago that Pagano doesn't like playing rookies,   and I take the time to prove that is wrong,  those are facts,  not opinions.    And then you turn around and make the exact same claim in another thread this week,  and I again prove it wrong,  those are facts,  not opinions.      What you call being bullied is you feeling foolish and silly that I've proven you wrong.   Again.   That's what facts do.    They prove bad opinions wrong.

 

And when I further point out that if Pagano is so bad then why are there no young players who you think he's ruined that go elsewhere and turn into something?     All the players that Pagano didn't play much who went elsewhere are back-ups there too.   Or they are completely out of football.   They didn't get better being on a different team.      Again,  those are facts.     You don't like that because it takes the wind out of your sails that "Pagano sucks!"

 

Now, you don't have to change your mind for me or anyone else.    But if you say that in your opinion 1+1=3, well, that's your opinion.    But it's wrong.   And it will always be wrong even if no one says so.    That's a fact.

 

 

 

Most people just come here to vent or talk football.   More often than not, this is a good place to talk football and there are some great posters that analyze games and player performances.  However, this season is a dumpster fire where people are just waiting for it to get over to see necessary changes made.  The games don't matter anymore and it's basically a lost cause.  So there is a lot of raw emotion and lack of actual football conversation.  

 

Now on to the point at hand.  Why did I highlight what you said?  Because you are obviously here "challenging"  people.  Like there is some sort of battle to be won.  Just another internet warrior.  This poster gave you a pretty reasonable post and you turned into "he's challenging me, I must defeat him."   

 

 

[NewColtsFan]

7 minutes ago, Corndog said:

Most people just come here to vent or talk football.   More often than not, this is a good place to talk football and there are some great posters that analyze games and player performances.  However, this season is a dumpster fire where people are just waiting for it to get over to see necessary changes made.  The games don't matter anymore and it's basically a lost cause.  So there is a lot of raw emotion and lack of actual football conversation.  

 

Now on to the point on hand?  Why did I highlight what you said?  Because you are obviously here "challenging"  people.  Like there is some sort of battle to be won.  Just another internet warrior.  This poster gave you a pretty reasonable post and you turned into "he's challenging me, I must defeat him."   

 

 

 

No.

 

The poster did NOT give me a reasonable post.    

 

The poster called me a bully when the problem is his, and not mine.      And I demonstrated why it's his and not mine.

 

If you read my post,  you'd see I don't care about "defeating him"....      I care about truth and facts.     He doesn't use them.     

 

I used the phrase you hi-lited because Jared has a habit of running full speed into a wall.     

 

Opinions = full speed.     Facts = wall. 

 

 

[NewColtsFan]

35 minutes ago, Jared Cisneros said:

I'm not just talking about me, I'm talking about how you've been doing it to everyone that has been venting and is upset about how this team is performing. You want facts? The year that Pagano left Baltimore, they won the SB. More facts? Pagano has never beat NE or Pitt in 6 years. He is an average coach WITH Andrew Luck. He is Gus Bradley without him. You even lie and give him credit for the first season when Arians was 9-3 and Pagano coached 4 games. You wonder why media types get a bad name? Look at your personality lately.

 

I'm not lying about Pagano.      Do you know who else gives credit to Pagano?

 

The National Football League.      The record of the 2012 seaons belongs to Pagano and NOT Arians.     That's the way it works.     If you don't like it,  take it up with the NFL.

 

And I've repeatedly pointed out that I give Pagano the credit because he did just as well, if not better in 13 and 14.   Without Arians.     Nothing would've changed if Pagano had not gotten sick.    Arians would still be the OC and making the same calls.      Pagano proved that by continuing to win just as much without Arians the next two years.   If Pagano had sucked in 13 and 14,  THEN you'd have an argument.    But that didn't happen.

 

Again,  I push back at people who vent nonsense and falsehoods.    I'm not disagreeing over someone saying "today is a good day".    That's someone's personal opinion.    I disagree with people who make false statements without proof and the proof supports a different conclusion.     I don't try to change someone's opinion over "Pagano sucks!"    I ignore those.    I try to offer some context over "Pagano sucks because......"     And then the reasons they list can be proved to be false, or incorrect.    That's the pushback I make.     I'm sorry you don't seem to be able to make the distinction.

 

As for Baltimore winning the SB after Pagano leaves....     yes they did.    But the problem wasn't the Ravens defense.     The problem was the Ravens offense.   And that's why they changed the OC in December of that season.     That's the fact.

 

That you point the finger at Pagano is yet the latest example of your true HATE of Pagano.    You blame him for things he didn't even do.....   You hate him so much that you don't even realize when you're posting falsehoods....   you know....   1+1=3.     

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Yoshinator]

2 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

I'm not lying about Pagano.      Do you know who else gives credit to Pagano?

 

The National Football League.      The record of the 2012 seaons belongs to Pagano and NOT Arians.     That's the way it works.     If you don't like it,  take it up with the NFL.

 

And I've repeatedly pointed out that I give Pagano the credit because he did just as well, if not better in 13 and 14.   Without Arians.     Nothing would've changed if Pagano had not gotten sick.    Arians would still be the OC and making the same calls.      Pagano proved that by continuing to win just as much without Arians the next two years.   If Pagano had sucked in 13 and 14,  THEN you'd have an argument.    But that didn't happen.

 

Again,  I push back at people who vent nonsense and falsehoods.    I'm not disagreeing over someone saying "today is a good day".    That's someone's personal opinion.    I disagree with people who make false statements without proof and the proof supports a different conclusion.     I don't try to change someone's opinion over "Pagano sucks!"    I ignore those.    I try to offer some context over "Pagano sucks because......"     And then the reasons they list can be proved to be false, or incorrect.    That's the pushback I make.     I'm sorry you don't seem to be able to make the distinction.

 

As for Baltimore winning the SB after Pagano leaves....     yes they did.    But the problem wasn't the Ravens defense.     The problem was the Ravens offense.   And that's why they changed the OC in December of that season.     That's the fact.

 

That you point the finger at Pagano is yet the latest example of your true HATE of Pagano.    You blame him for things he didn't even do.....   You hate him so much that you don't even realize when you're posting falsehoods....   you know....   1+1=3.     

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Pretty sure I was watching Arians coach those 12 games, and you can't say different, despite what record was given to Pagano. Also, no guarantee Pagano would of done the same just because of two other years. That's like the roulette ball hitting red twice at the casino, and you didn't see the prior spin, so you assume it would be red too. Absolutely horrible logic. Pagano and Arians are two different people and that was a different season. You are a lot smarter than this, and you literally try to trick people with arguments such as these that Pagano had 3 winning seasons instead of 2 and he would of won anyway. That may work on some naive people, but it won't work with me. You have no idea if he would of won. All we know is Arians coached those 12 games, and everyone here saw it.

[NewColtsFan]

8 minutes ago, Jared Cisneros said:

Pretty sure I was watching Arians coach those 12 games, and you can't say different, despite what record was given to Pagano. Also, no guarantee Pagano would of done the same just because of two other years. That's like the roulette ball hitting red twice at the casino, and you didn't see the prior spin, so you assume it would be red too. Absolutely horrible logic. Pagano and Arians are two different people and that was a different season. You are a lot smarter than this, and you literally try to trick people with arguments such as these that Pagano had 3 winning seasons instead of 2 and he would of won anyway. That may work on some naive people, but it won't work with me. You have no idea if he would of won. All we know is Arians coached those 12 games, and everyone here saw it.

 

 

You're not in a position to tell anyone that they're using terrible logic and using a bad example to do so.    Logic is NOT your friend.     Comparing football seasons to a roulette wheel where everything is random is a bad example.

 

You continue to have no idea what you're talking about because everything you state comes a position of PURE HATE.    You're so angry you're not even thinking straight.

 

These are not tricks.    This is the way critical thinking works.

 

I don't Jedi Mind Trick people here.         I try to post my views based on facts.     If people agree -- fine.     If they don't -- that's fine too.

 

 

 

[Fisticuffs111]

2 hours ago, krunk said:

Most of us want a change, but to be honest I really don't see a whole lot of worthy candidates that will be available.  I'll be interested to see what happens

I think that's a good topic for discussion. Whether there are enough worthy candidates, especially realistic, to move on from Chuck. Better than the same old debates at least.

Personally I think it's time to move on from Chuck regardless, even though I also don't really love any potential candidates. Part of it is we've heard that hesitation before, not wanting to move on from Chuck because there's no great options, yet we've seen some solid hires around the league. Some stinkers too. But yeah, just time to do it.

 

There seemed to be better options in years past, some of them in hindsight, but I still think there's a decent group of candidates. Really curious to what Irsay/Ballard are thinking there.

[richard pallo]

35 minutes ago, Fisticuffs111 said:

I think that's a good topic for discussion. Whether there are enough worthy candidates, especially realistic, to move on from Chuck. Better than the same old debates at least.

Personally I don't think it's a great reason to keep Chuck, even though I also don't particularly love the potential candidates. Part of it is we've heard that hesitation in years past, not wanting to move on from Chuck because there's not a great replacement option, yet we've seen some solid hires around the league. Some stinkers too, sure. And admittedly I've liked the coaching candidates in years past more than this years potential candidates, but still, I think it's time to move on.

There's definitely an argument the other way though, especially if Ballard/Irsay just don't like anybody available. I do worry about the state of our franchise/backlash if Chuck is kept though.

No one knows for sure if Chuck will be kept but if he returns the haters will continue to hate and whine for awhile.  But once FA starts and the draft gets going and a healthy Luck returns to the lineup and we start winning again all will be good.  

[throwing BBZ]

44 minutes ago, Jared Cisneros said:

I'm not just talking about me, I'm talking about how you've been doing it to everyone that has been venting and is upset about how this team is performing. You want facts? The year that Pagano left Baltimore, they won the SB. More facts? Pagano has never beat NE or Pitt in 6 years. He is an average coach WITH Andrew Luck. He is Gus Bradley without him. You even lie and give him credit for the first season when Arians was 9-3 and Pagano coached 4 games. You wonder why media types get a bad name? Look at your personality lately.

 

    Jared, think about that 9-3.
  Chuckles had been in charge through all the off season camps, the pre-season, start of the season.
 It was his team. Chuck established the mind set, and his illness, i hope you would agree, was an important piece of the don't quit attitude (9 4th Q comebacks wins) that Sh__y team had.
 And there was coverage at some point, post season as i recall, from Arians, that he was talking to Chuck daily during the season, about what to do. He was sharing the success where it belonged.
 And i just shake my head to all the great memories of Arians season
  Their were many more people wanting to choke his double TE, deep pattern offense.
 It was actually pretty awful.
  The FACTS are, it was pretty much Lucky getting chased out of the pocket, running left through whichever hole Castonzo wasn't getting beaten through, and of course some standing like a mighty oak letting the arm tackles fall off as he stepped forward up the middle, then running like ___, or making time for Reggie and TY to get somewhat open beyond 20 yds.
  A Sh___ 5-11 roster that beat a bunch of other sh___ teams late in the game. And Chuck should get more credit for that than Arians.  Rapp your young head around it, it is reality.
  That said, NEXT please!

[Myles]

1 hour ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

I'm not lying about Pagano.      Do you know who else gives credit to Pagano?

 

The National Football League.      The record of the 2012 seaons belongs to Pagano and NOT Arians.     That's the way it works.     If you don't like it,  take it up with the NFL.

 

And I've repeatedly pointed out that I give Pagano the credit because he did just as well, if not better in 13 and 14.   Without Arians.     Nothing would've changed if Pagano had not gotten sick.    Arians would still be the OC and making the same calls.      Pagano proved that by continuing to win just as much without Arians the next two years.   If Pagano had sucked in 13 and 14,  THEN you'd have an argument.    But that didn't happen.

 

Again,  I push back at people who vent nonsense and falsehoods.    I'm not disagreeing over someone saying "today is a good day".    That's someone's personal opinion.    I disagree with people who make false statements without proof and the proof supports a different conclusion.     I don't try to change someone's opinion over "Pagano sucks!"    I ignore those.    I try to offer some context over "Pagano sucks because......"     And then the reasons they list can be proved to be false, or incorrect.    That's the pushback I make.     I'm sorry you don't seem to be able to make the distinction.

 

As for Baltimore winning the SB after Pagano leaves....     yes they did.    But the problem wasn't the Ravens defense.     The problem was the Ravens offense.   And that's why they changed the OC in December of that season.     That's the fact.

 

That you point the finger at Pagano is yet the latest example of your true HATE of Pagano.    You blame him for things he didn't even do.....   You hate him so much that you don't even realize when you're posting falsehoods....   you know....   1+1=3.     

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Lots of stuff in here that you are complaining about others doing. 

Such as the bolded part.   You talk about facts but it is a FACT that they won the SB after he lft. 

[Yoshinator]

11 minutes ago, throwing BBZ said:

 

    Jared, think about that 9-3.
  Chuckles had been in charge through all the off season camps, the pre-season, start of the season.
 It was his team. Chuck established the mind set, and his illness, i hope you would agree, was an important piece of the don't quit attitude (9 4th Q comebacks wins) that Sh__y team had.
 And there was coverage at some point, post season as i recall, from Arians, that he was talking to Chuck daily during the season, about what to do. He was sharing the success where it belonged.
 And i just shake my head to all the great memories of Arians season
  Their were many more people wanting to choke his double TE, deep pattern offense.
 It was actually pretty awful.
  The FACTS are, it was pretty much Lucky getting chased out of the pocket, running left through whichever hole Castonzo wasn't getting beaten through, and of course some standing like a mighty oak letting the arm tackles fall off as he stepped forward up the middle, then running like ___, or making time for Reggie and TY to get somewhat open beyond 20 yds.
  A Sh___ 5-11 roster that beat a bunch of other sh___ teams late in the game. And Chuck should get more credit for that than Arians.  Rapp your young head around it, it is reality.
  That said, NEXT please!

Seeing how Pagano went 2-2 that year and it was his first year, I think it's more likely he would of went 6-6 that year in the other 12 games instead of 9-3. I'm basing that off the 2-2 true record. He would of had to go 9-3 while 100% going 2-2 in his first year as a coach with a first year QB, and I don't buy that. It's more likely he goes 6-6 as he went 2-2 when he coached. The two 8-8 seasons in 15 and 16 back that up as Hasselback was about as good then as a 1st year Luck.

[NewColtsFan]

4 minutes ago, Myles said:

Lots of stuff in here that you are complaining about others doing. 

Such as the bolded part.   You talk about facts but it is a FACT that they won the SB after he lft. 

 

I acknowledged it..,   There's no denying it.

 

But Pagano didn't get fired by Baltimore.   He got hired to be a Head Coach.    That's a good thing.     

 

But as I demonstrated, the defense wasn't the problem...   the offense was....   the Ravens changed their OC in December.   Who does that except a team with a big problem?

 

I'm not saying Oagsno should be retained as the HC.    I expect him to be fired in early January...   I'm fine with that.

 

I just don't like trying to distort the man's record and legacy out of frustration.   People are angry and filled with hate.   That's s bad way to reach conclusions...

 

 

 

[Corndog]

1 hour ago, Fisticuffs111 said:

I think that's a good topic for discussion. Whether there are enough worthy candidates, especially realistic, to move on from Chuck. Better than the same old debates at least.

Personally I think it's time to move on from Chuck regardless, even though I also don't really love any potential candidates. Part of it is we've heard that hesitation before, not wanting to move on from Chuck because there's no great options, yet we've seen some solid hires around the league. Some stinkers too. But yeah, just time to do it.

 

There seemed to be better options in years past, some of them in hindsight, but I still think there's a decent group of candidates. Really curious to what Irsay/Ballard are thinking there.

I definitely agree with this post.  You never know where the next great head coach can come from.  While there may not be a strong list of experienced top name head coaches available, there could always be a coordinator ready to step up.  

 

I am also very interested in the approach.  It seems Irsay likes to hire head coaches himself, rather than allow the General Manager to do so.   Irsay signed Dungy himself and it seems that Pagano wasn't Grigson's choice.  Personally, I would like Ballard to have a strong say and really get his own guy.  One of the biggest issues with the Grigson/Pagano era was they just weren't on the same page.  Ballard picking a guy he knows that fits his style(and vice versa) would benefit  both of them.  I suppose the downside is ultimately it would make Ballard accountable for the head coach as well, but to me it's not as big of downside as having two top positions not seeing eye to eye.  Also if Irsay hires a head coach that doesn't "gel" with Ballard, it could hurt him anyways and the success of this organization. 

[NewColtsFan]

8 minutes ago, Jared Cisneros said:

Seeing how Pagano went 2-2 that year and it was his first year, I think it's more likely he would of went 6-6 that year in the other 12 games instead of 9-3. I'm basing that off the 2-2 true record. He would of had to go 9-3 while 100% going 2-2 in his first year as a coach with a first year QB, and I don't buy that. It's more likely he goes 6-6 as he went 2-2 when he coached. The two 8-8 seasons in 15 and 16 back that up as Hasselback was about as good then as a 1st year Luck.

 

First....  Pagano was 1-2 and not 2-2....

 

second the the idea that you think Hasselbreck was just as good as Luck his rookie year might be one of the 10 silliest things I've read since I've been here.  (THAT'S an opinion!).  

 

Dear God, what is the matter with you?!?

 

We won the last two games of the 15 season WITHOUT Hasselbeck who had been pounded into dust by then.

 

Now I'm getting embarrassed for you.   You're trying so hard to prove Pagano is bad that your arguments are getting worse and worse...

 

[Roger]

3 hours ago, krunk said:

Most of us want a change, but to be honest I really don't see a whole lot of worthy candidates that will be available.  I'll be interested to see what happens

Belichick did not have a great record as an HC when he got hired. But Kraft saw something when he did the interviews that made him take a chance.  That could happen again with the Colts.  Maybe Ballard will discern the next great HC.  We all know Pagano ain't the next great HC.

[Yoshinator]

1 minute ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

First....  Pagano was 1-2 and not 2-2....

 

second the the idea that you think Hasselbreck was just as good as Luck his rookie year might be one of the 10 silliest things I've read since I've been here.  (THAT'S an opinion!).  

 

Dear God, what is the matter with you?!?

 

We won the last two games of the 15 season WITHOUT Hasselbeck who had been pounded into dust by then.

 

Now I'm getting embarrassed for you.   You're trying so hard to prove Pagano is bad that your arguments are getting worse and worse...

 

If Pagano went 1-2, how in the world would he finish 11-5 that year? Answer me that one. That's crazy thinking at best. What in the world is wrong with you? The only facts are 1-2. He would have to go 10-3 to finish with that record. You can't prove that, and even if you tried, you'd look like a fool.

[Myles]

2 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

I acknowledged it..,   There's no denying it.

 

But Pagano didn't get fired by Baltimore.   He got hired to be a Head Coach.    That's a good thing.     

 

But as I demonstrated, the defense wasn't the problem...   the offense was....   the Ravens changed their OC in December.   Who does that except a team with a big problem?

 

I'm not saying Oagsno should be retained as the HC.    I expect him to be fired in early January...   I'm fine with that.

 

I just don't like trying to distort the man's record and legacy out of frustration.   People are angry and filled with hate.   That's s bad way to reach conclusions...

 

 

 

I can understand that.   There are some who post out of aggravation.  There are others who defend out of aggravation at those posters.   Those of us who watched all the Colts games of 2012 could tell a big difference between the Pagano coached games and the Arians coached games.   That is backed up by the FACT that he was hired by another team to be the head coach. 

 

I don't think Pagano is a bad head coach, I just don't think he has what it takes to be a very good head coach.    His teams seem to lack discipline.  He doesn't like to make in game adjustments.  I think a coordinator is where he is best suited. 

[BR-549]

 

[2006Coltsbestever]

25 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

First....  Pagano was 1-2 and not 2-2....

 

second the the idea that you think Hasselbreck was just as good as Luck his rookie year might be one of the 10 silliest things I've read since I've been here.  (THAT'S an opinion!).  

 

Dear God, what is the matter with you?!?

 

We won the last two games of the 15 season WITHOUT Hasselbeck who had been pounded into dust by then.

 

Now I'm getting embarrassed for you.   You're trying so hard to prove Pagano is bad that your arguments are getting worse and worse...

 

What's funny is you want Pagano gone like I do because we both think it's time. I think you are like me in it gets on your nerves though that nobody gives Pagano any credit for his first 3 years here. People act like it didn't exist when in fact we were a Very Good ran team from 2012-2014 other than Grigson's inability to Draft in 2013 or 2014. By the way Pagano was actually 2-2 in 2012  - you were defending him but even shortchanged him. He started 1-2 when Arians took over who went 9-3, then Chuck came back last game vs Houston and won that one.

[NewColtsFan]

30 minutes ago, Jared Cisneros said:

If Pagano went 1-2, how in the world would he finish 11-5 that year? Answer me that one. That's crazy thinking at best. What in the world is wrong with you? The only facts are 1-2. He would have to go 10-3 to finish with that record. You can't prove that, and even if you tried, you'd look like a fool.

 

You keep running into walls at full speed.

 

Pagano won 11 games in both 13 and 14.   Without Bruce Arians.    And he won playoff games.    If Chuck had been healthy Arians would still have been the OC making the same calls.   There's no reason to assume otherwise.   Can I prove it?    Of course not.   And neither can you.   But my argument has more logic behind it.    Yours had opinion based on hate.    The only way your argument works is if the Volts struggled in 13 and 14.   But we didn't.    Why not?

 

You just declared that Hasselbeck was almost as good as Luck in his rookie year.   Complete nonsense.   Beyond silly.

 

In 2015, Chud changed the offense after Luck got hurt to accommodate Hasselbeck.    Matt was so limited that he couldn't come close to running the same offense that Luck ran.    And that has been widely discussed here for two years.   And you'd remember that if you weren't so angry and lashing out.   Don't believe me?   Ask Superman, he will confirm.

 

Pagano will be gone in less than four weeks.    Not sure why that isn't enough for you and others,  but apparently it's not...    I'm sorry to see that....

 

 

[Yoshinator]

1 minute ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

You keep running into walls at full speed.

 

Pagano won 11 games in both 13 and 14.   Without Bruce Arians.    And he won playoff games.    If Chuck had been healthy Arians would still have been the OC making the same calls.   There's no reason to assume otherwise.   Can I prove it?    Of course not.   And neither can you.   But my argument has more logic behind it.    Yours had opinion based on hate.    The only way your argument works is if the Volts struggled in 13 and 14.   But we didn't.    Why not?

 

You just declared that Hasselbeck was almost as good as Luck in his rookie year.   Complete nonsense.   Beyond silly.

 

In 2015, Chud changed the offense after Luck got hurt to accommodate Hasselbeck.    Matt was so limited that he couldn't come close to running the same offense that Luck ran.    And that has been widely discussed here for two years.

And you'd remember that if you weren't so angry and lashing out.   Don't believe me?Ask Superman, he will confirm.

 

Pagano will be gone in less than four weeks.    Not sure why that isn't enough for you and others,  but apparently it's not...    I'm sorry to see that....

 

 

I don't hate Pagano, I gave you constructive criticism and you took it personal and starting lashing out at me. That's why I'm so upset right now. Pagano isn't worthy of being hated, he's basically irrelevent. Other teams, coaches and players would agree with me. You have ignored a lot my facts or am making excuses for them. Some of your facts are opinions as well. I'm very frustrated with the last 3 years. You don't seem to understand that is the case with me and a lot of the forum as well. It's hard to be positive or say good things when everything goes wrong. This whole thing is going to be over in a month. I'd appreciate it if you were a little nicer to me from now on. The last three years haven't been great as a Colts fan. You can be right all you want, but in the end, you are on the couch every Sunday watching and talking on the forum just like me.

[2006Coltsbestever]

3 minutes ago, Jared Cisneros said:

I don't hate Pagano, I gave you constructive criticism and you took it personal and starting lashing out at me. That's why I'm so upset right now. Pagano isn't worthy of being hated, he's basically irrelevent. Other teams, coaches and players would agree with me. You have ignored a lot my facts or am making excuses for them. Some of your facts are opinions as well. I'm very frustrated with the last 3 years. You don't seem to understand that is the case with me and a lot of the forum as well. It's hard to be positive or say good things when everything goes wrong. This whole thing is going to be over in a month. I'd appreciate it if you were a little nicer to me from now on. The last three years haven't been great as a Colts fan. You can be right all you want, but in the end, you are on the couch every Sunday watching and talking on the forum just like me.

Like I posted the other day, Cant wait until we just get it over with and fire Chuck so we all can move as fans. The organization can move on as well and Ballard can hire his guy. I think out of all the Threads in here, the Chuck Threads have become the worst by a country mile.

[Yoshinator]

1 minute ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Like I posted the other day, Cant wait until we just get it over with and fire Chuck so we all can move as fans. The organization can move on as well and Ballard can hire his guy. I think out of all the Threads in here, the Chuck Threads have become the worst by a country mile.

Agreed. Ready to get this season over with and start over with a new coaching staff. Black Friday can't come soon enough to calm this site.

[NewColtsFan]

51 minutes ago, Myles said:

I can understand that.   There are some who post out of aggravation.  There are others who defend out of aggravation at those posters.   Those of us who watched all the Colts games of 2012 could tell a big difference between the Pagano coached games and the Arians coached games.   That is backed up by the FACT that he was hired by another team to be the head coach. 

 

I don't think Pagano is a bad head coach, I just don't think he has what it takes to be a very good head coach.    His teams seem to lack discipline.  He doesn't like to make in game adjustments.  I think a coordinator is where he is best suited. 

 

Thank you.

 

Good post.       More important, it's a fair and reasonable post.

 

Not sure I disagree with anything you said here.    

 

I just wish there were more posts like ths one.....   

[Roger]

3 minutes ago, Jared Cisneros said:

Agreed. Ready to get this season over with and start over with a new coaching staff. Black Friday can't come soon enough to calm this site.

Colts finish the season on Sunday, December 31. It's an early game.  It could be Black Sunday for Pagano.  Or maybe Black Monday.

[2006Coltsbestever]

Just now, Jared Cisneros said:

Agreed. Ready to get this season over with and start over with a new coaching staff. Black Friday can't come soon enough to calm this site.

Yeah I agree 100%. It's just time for a culture change and Ballard is now the GM, so he should bring in his guy. I give Chuck solid credit for the first 3 years he was here, of course Luck deserves more credit but Chuck was still the Coach. After going to the Title Game in 2014 I gave Chuck a lot of rope, many in here didn't. So I gave him a pass in 2015 because Luck only played 7 games. After last season's 8-8 I actually wanted him gone. After we lost to Houston here last season, I figured it was time to fire him. One can definitely defend his 1st 4 seasons though, Last season and this one not so much.

[NewColtsFan]

31 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

What's funny is you want Pagano gone like I do because we both think it's time. I think you are like me in it gets on your nerves though that nobody gives Pagano any credit for his first 3 years here. People act like it didn't exist when in fact we were a Very Good ran team from 2012-2014 other than Grigson's inability to Draft in 2013 or 2014. By the way Pagano was actually 2-2 in 2012  - you were defending him but even shortchanged him. He started 1-2 when Arians took over who went 9-3, then Chuck came back last game vs Houston and won that one.

 

Good catch.     Off the top of my head,  I couldn't remember if Chuck came back for the last game or not?

 

I know he coached 3 games at the start before his illness was caught and we were 1-2 at the time.

 

Thanks for setting that straight!

 

[throwing BBZ]

46 minutes ago, Corndog said:

I definitely agree with this post.  You never know where the next great head coach can come from.  While there may not be a strong list of experienced top name head coaches available, there could always be a coordinator ready to step up.  

 

I am also very interested in the approach.  It seems Irsay likes to hire head coaches himself, rather than allow the General Manager to do so.   Irsay signed Dungy himself and it seems that Pagano wasn't Grigson's choice.  Personally, I would like Ballard to have a strong say and really get his own guy.  One of the biggest issues with the Grigson/Pagano era was they just weren't on the same page.  Ballard picking a guy he knows that fits his style(and vice versa) would benefit  both of them.  I suppose the downside is ultimately it would make Ballard accountable for the head coach as well, but to me it's not as big of downside as having two top positions not seeing eye to eye.  Also if Irsay hires a head coach that doesn't "gel" with Ballard, it could hurt him anyways and the success of this organization. 

 

  Irsay hired Indiana boy Grigson so he could still play GM, "as he himself said," Mentor Grigson.
  He had his "not so clear" head in all those bad decisions? kinda maybe
   I am certain Ballard will fully inform Irsay of who his top choices are, and they will go over them in detail.
  And Irsay will be part of the Interview process.
  Hopefully Irsay & Family let Ballard do his job. And i believe they will.
 

  I just hope we get the best available O-Line coach next round.  Aaron "killer" Kromer as OC?
 A very strong history with o-line player development, with pass blocking, and the run game.