Rashaan Melvin and Secondary

[Superman]

44 minutes ago, krunk said:

Love me some Supes but I do think he's holding on to this one harder than anything I've seen before.   No I don't think Melvin equals Toler.

 

:: sighs prayerfully :: 

 

When did I say Melvin equals Toler?

[krunk]

2 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

:: sighs prayerfully :: 

 

When did I say Melvin equals Toler?

You said it in your commentary.   You said he gets beat just as much as Toler and that's not the first time you mentioned that.  If there is a difference it appears to be small to you.  Most of us disagree but of course you have your own perception about  him.

[jvan1973]

1 hour ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

Yes...   because we all know how many times Toler graded out as the best corner in the entire NFL in any given week for the Colts like Melvin did in week two.

 

And we all know how many times Toler followed up with two interceptions in a game, like Melvin just did.

 

This is yet another disappointing campaign for you.    You repeatedly said Melvin didn't belong on the Colts roster last year.   Then, when he played decently you allowed that Melvin could be on the roster,  but his ceiling would never be more than a 4th corner.   

 

Be honest....   you were hoping Ballard would cut him before the season.

 

Now he's playing well and here you are two weeks in a row bad mouthing and downplaying what Melvin has done every chance you get.

 

Color me unimpressed.   

 

I look forward to you claiming I somehow waterboarded you and put words in your mouth.    

 

Where has Superman gone?

 

[Superman]

2 minutes ago, krunk said:

You said it in your commentary.   You said he gets beat just as much as Toler and that's not the first time you mentioned that.        Most of us disagree but....

 

Umm, first, I don't think I've ever said Melvin's and Toler's names together before.

 

Second, I only did so because someone suggested he's been much better than Toler ever was, as if Toler never had good games here, and he did.

 

 

 

Back to back games from early 2014 where Toler played really well, and made really good plays on the ball. Both of these plays are more impressive from a coverage standpoint than either of Melvin's interceptions Sunday. Just because Toler was bad doesn't mean he never had good games.

 

Melvin has had two pretty good games (one, really... the Cardinals game was much better than the Browns game from a coverage standpoint). Some of you have decided to grade entirely him on the basis of his best and most recent games, assuming that these last results are going to determine how well he'll play moving forward. These two games don't mean he is a good cover man. Aside from two picks on errant throws, and his play Sunday wasn't all that impressive.

[krunk]

1 minute ago, Superman said:

 

Umm, first, I don't think I've ever said Melvin's and Toler's names together before.

 

Second, I only did so because someone suggested he's been much better than Toler ever was, as if Toler never had good games here, and he did.

 

 

 

Back to back games from early 2014 where Toler played really well, and made really good plays on the ball. Both of these plays are more impressive from a coverage standpoint than either of Melvin's interceptions Sunday. Just because Toler was bad doesn't mean he never had good games.

 

Melvin has had two pretty good games (one, really... the Cardinals game was much better than the Browns game from a coverage standpoint). Some of you have decided to grade entirely him on the basis of his best and most recent games, assuming that these last results are going to determine how well he'll play moving forward. These two games don't mean he is a good cover man. Aside from two picks on errant throws, and his play Sunday wasn't all that impressive.

 

Most of us have been saying Melvin isn't that bad for a while now.  It's not just the two games.  I don't think any of us looked at Melvin with unrealistic expectations.   We've all (outside of you)  or at least most of us have maintained that we'll take him as a 3rd, 4th, or 5th corner and that he belongs on the team.  He's actually been more decent than that while Vontae has been out.    It has seemed that your position has been he needed to be cut.  Even in your final 53 roster breakdowns you had him being cut. I'm not even sure you were that sure about Toler to say he needed to be cut after one season.  But you say that type of stuff about Melvin.

[ponyboy]

2 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

This is yet another disappointing campaign for you...

 

Color me unimpressed.   

 

I look forward to you claiming I somehow waterboarded you and put words in your mouth.    

 

Where has Superman gone?

 

 

Will the Superman/NCF SoCal meet-up be a little awkward this year? 

[Superman]

1 hour ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

Yes...   because we all know how many times Toler graded out as the best corner in the entire NFL in any given week for the Colts like Melvin did in week two.

 

And we all know how many times Toler followed up with two interceptions in a game, like Melvin just did.

 

This is yet another disappointing campaign for you.    You repeatedly said Melvin didn't belong on the Colts roster last year.   Then, when he played decently you allowed that Melvin could be on the roster,  but his ceiling would never be more than a 4th corner.   

 

Be honest....   you were hoping Ballard would cut him before the season.

 

Now he's playing well and here you are two weeks in a row bad mouthing and downplaying what Melvin has done every chance you get.

 

Color me unimpressed.   

 

I look forward to you claiming I somehow waterboarded you and put words in your mouth.    

 

Where has Superman gone?

 

 

When did I badmouth him? And when did I downplay what he's done?

 

Do you want to have a discussion about how he's playing, or do you just want to talk about 'two picks and PFF' without actually looking at his play?

 

You don't have to ask me to be honest, I've never hidden the fact that I don't think Melvin is good and wanted the team to do better than him (I don't think I ever called for him to be cut). I'm glad he's had a couple of good games, and I hope that continues, but history says he's a bad cover man. 

 

If I think he's playing well, I'll say I think he's playing well. If I think he's doing well at some things but not so well at others, I'll say that. If I think he's playing bad, I'll say that. You're acting like just because PFF gave him a shot out and then he had a couple picks that I should be singing his praises automatically. 

 

And seriously, I said he had some good and some bad in this game. Didn't he? I said he played well last week (no one mentions that). I also pointed out what his problems are, which always pop up. But because I haven't declared him the future of the Colts DB room, you're unimpressed? 

 

I don't think I've ever said his ceiling is a CB4. I always leave room for players to improve, unlike some. I may have said that if he's better than our 4th best corner, we need better corners.

 

What is inaccurate about anything I said?

[Superman]

31 minutes ago, krunk said:

 

Most of us have been saying Melvin isn't that bad for a while now.  It's not just the two games.  I don't think any of us looked at Melvin with unrealistic expectations.   We've all (outside of you)  or at least most of us have maintained that we'll take him as a 3rd, 4th, or 5th corner and that he belongs on the team.  He's actually been more decent than that while Vontae has been out.    It has seemed that your position has been he needed to be cut.  Even in your final 53 roster breakdowns you had him being cut. I'm not even sure you were that sure about Toler to say he needed to be cut after one season.  But you say that type of stuff about Melvin.

 

I had Melvin on the bubble in my initial projection, and cut in my final projection. That's the only time I've ever said Melvin should be cut, and it was just a 53 man projection based on how guys played in the preseason. If I had known Chris Culliver was going on IR, I would have had Melvin on the final roster. I've never campaigned for him to be cut. I'm fine with him as a depth corner, I just don't think he's a good starter.

 

And in this thread, particularly my first post, what was inaccurate about what I said?

[Andrew Luck fan club]

3 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

In week two of this season, Rashad Melvin graded out to be the highest ranked cornerback in the entire NFL.   

 

Then in week three, he followed up with two interceptions.  

 

I think there's a decent chance that Melvin is a little more than a depth player.

 

 

You're wrong. He's a great depth player. 

[Andrew Luck fan club]

if anyone thinks Melvin would start on a playoff team(injuries aside) you're wrong. And please reevaluate yourself. 

[NewColtsFan]

18 minutes ago, Xander said:

You're wrong. He's a great depth player. 

 

Thanks for that opinion.

 

I look forward to the announcement that you'll be working for the Colts as a scout next year.

 

[Carlos Danger]

Melvin is good depth at a position where our #1 is injury prone.

I did expect him to start over Wilson to begin the season, but I don't think I'd prefer him to start over Wilson when both Davis and Wilson are healthy. 

 

He has done a pretty good job so far. I still really like him for depth, but I don't think there is a long term starter role for him here when everybody is healthy... I'd like to see Ballard draft another physical corner high next season. 

[NewColtsFan]

1 hour ago, Superman said:

 

When did I badmouth him? And when did I downplay what he's done?

 

Do you want to have a discussion about how he's playing, or do you just want to talk about 'two picks and PFF' without actually looking at his play?

 

You don't have to ask me to be honest, I've never hidden the fact that I don't think Melvin is good and wanted the team to do better than him (I don't think I ever called for him to be cut). I'm glad he's had a couple of good games, and I hope that continues, but history says he's a bad cover man. 

 

If I think he's playing well, I'll say I think he's playing well. If I think he's doing well at some things but not so well at others, I'll say that. If I think he's playing bad, I'll say that. You're acting like just because PFF gave him a shot out and then he had a couple picks that I should be singing his praises automatically. 

 

And seriously, I said he had some good and some bad in this game. Didn't he? I said he played well last week (no one mentions that). I also pointed out what his problems are, which always pop up. But because I haven't declared him the future of the Colts DB room, you're unimpressed? 

 

I don't think I've ever said his ceiling is a CB4. I always leave room for players to improve, unlike some. I may have said that if he's better than our 4th best corner, we need better corners.

 

What is inaccurate about anything I said?

 

I think it's ironic and appropriate that we're talking about a cornerback,  because I think you've just exhibited a fantastic bit of backpeddling.

 

Didn't say he didn't belong on the team?      Never said his ceiling is as a 4th cornerback?     I'm only sorry I've never been good at accessing the archives here.

 

So, let me put it this way......    Melvin has given us cornerback play the past two weeks that none of us predicted.   And only person who is not impressed.....    is you.

 

I try to read whatever you write,  but perhaps I missed the post where you said something positive about Melvin.   Something.       Anything.        Even.....   "Melvin has performed better than I exepected...."       I haven't see that.

 

But what I've read from you in numerous posts in various threads is that people here should calm down and not get too excited about Melvin because he really isn't that good.    The for whatever good he's done,  he's also done things poorly.     I'm not saying you're wrong.      You may even be right.     But when ALL your posts have the same distinct tone of  "He's not as good as people here seem to think he is..."    it becomes pretty noticable.

 

It's just like your Chud arguments.     There's never anything positive.     All negative, all the time.     It's the same song with the same one note over and over and over again.      

 

You seem determined not to give Melvin any credit.     You'll only see the downside.

 

I don't know how good Melvin can be.     But I've seen enough of him to think that his past is in his past.   That he might be better than his history would suggest.     I don't know if it's Pagano working with him, or the DB coach.   But he's playing the best ball of his career.     I'm wondering when you'll notice that.....?

 

Your first setence....    when did you badmouth him?    When did you downplay what he's done?      Seriously?       You asked those questions?

 

The answer is........    in every post you've ever made about the guy,   but especially the posts of the last two weeks when Melvin has played well.

 

[Andrew Luck fan club]

1 hour ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

Thanks for that opinion.

 

I look forward to the announcement that you'll be working for the Colts as a scout next year.

 

Not opinion, its fact. But you can take it as gospel. 

1 hour ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

I think it's ironic and appropriate that we're talking about a cornerback,  because I think you've just exhibited a fantastic bit of backpeddling.

 

Didn't say he didn't belong on the team?      Never said his ceiling is as a 4th cornerback?     I'm only sorry I've never been good at accessing the archives here.

 

So, let me put it this way......    Melvin has given us cornerback play the past two weeks that none of us predicted.   And only person who is not impressed.....    is you.

 

I try to read whatever you write,  but perhaps I missed the post where you said something positive about Melvin.   Something.       Anything.        Even.....   "Melvin has performed better than I exepected...."       I haven't see that.

 

But what I've read from you in numerous posts in various threads is that people here should calm down and not get too excited about Melvin because he really isn't that good.    The for whatever good he's done,  he's also done things poorly.     I'm not saying you're wrong.      You may even be right.     But when ALL your posts have the same distinct tone of  "He's not as good as people here seem to think he is..."    it becomes pretty noticable.

 

It's just like your Chud arguments.     There's never anything positive.     All negative, all the time.     It's the same song with the same one note over and over and over again.      

 

You seem determined not to give Melvin any credit.     You'll only see the downside.

 

I don't know how good Melvin can be.     But I've seen enough of him to think that his past is in his past.   That he might be better than his history would suggest.     I don't know if it's Pagano working with him, or the DB coach.   But he's playing the best ball of his career.     I'm wondering when you'll notice that.....?

 

Your first setence....    when did you badmouth him?    When did you downplay what he's done?      Seriously?       You asked those questions?

 

The answer is........    in every post you've ever made about the guy,   but especially the posts of the last two weeks when Melvin has played well.

 

Superman isn't the only one not impressed. Becuase here the hell I am, unimpressed as %. 

 

Stop getting upset becuase he speaks the truth and you don't like it/agree with it. 

 

Chud isnt a good playcaller, and Melvin isn't a good starting CB. 

[NewColtsFan]

6 minutes ago, Xander said:

Not opinion, its fact. But you can take it as gospel. 

Superman isn't the only one not impressed. Becuase here the hell I am, unimpressed as %. 

 

Stop getting upset becuase he speaks the truth and you don't like it/agree with it. 

 

Chud isnt a good playcaller, and Melvin isn't a good starting CB. 

 

Would you like to start a thread announcing that your word on all things is final and absolute?

 

You can tell everyone there is no reason for anyone to start a thread, they can just ask you a question and you'll be happy to tell the rest of us what to think?

 

I'm sure those will go over really well!

 

You certainly know how to win friends and influence people!     Well done!     

[Flash7]

1 hour ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

I think it's ironic and appropriate that we're talking about a cornerback,  because I think you've just exhibited a fantastic bit of backpeddling.

 

Didn't say he didn't belong on the team?      Never said his ceiling is as a 4th cornerback?     I'm only sorry I've never been good at accessing the archives here.

 

So, let me put it this way......    Melvin has given us cornerback play the past two weeks that none of us predicted.   And only person who is not impressed.....    is you.

 

I try to read whatever you write,  but perhaps I missed the post where you said something positive about Melvin.   Something.       Anything.        Even.....   "Melvin has performed better than I exepected...."       I haven't see that.

 

But what I've read from you in numerous posts in various threads is that people here should calm down and not get too excited about Melvin because he really isn't that good.    The for whatever good he's done,  he's also done things poorly.     I'm not saying you're wrong.      You may even be right.     But when ALL your posts have the same distinct tone of  "He's not as good as people here seem to think he is..."    it becomes pretty noticable.

 

It's just like your Chud arguments.     There's never anything positive.     All negative, all the time.     It's the same song with the same one note over and over and over again.      

 

You seem determined not to give Melvin any credit.     You'll only see the downside.

 

I don't know how good Melvin can be.     But I've seen enough of him to think that his past is in his past.   That he might be better than his history would suggest.     I don't know if it's Pagano working with him, or the DB coach.   But he's playing the best ball of his career.     I'm wondering when you'll notice that.....?

 

Your first setence....    when did you badmouth him?    When did you downplay what he's done?      Seriously?       You asked those questions?

 

The answer is........    in every post you've ever made about the guy,   but especially the posts of the last two weeks when Melvin has played well.

 

Hey NCF,

 

Here's what you're looking for:

 

"Melvin played a good game. I haven't done All 22 so I can only judge him on the plays where the ball came his way, and for the most part, he was sound. He got beat by Fitzgerald on the fade route on 4th and goal, the ball placement wasn't great so it was incomplete. He got beat a couple other times, also. But he was tough on a lot of plays. I think he played the best game he's played since he's been here, for sure, which is a good thing for him and for us.

 

I definitely don't think he should be ahead of any of the young guys at corner, and I'm not going to get too excited over one good game, but he deserves credit for sure. If he plays anywhere near as good the rest of the season, it will be a big win for us."

 

- Superman

@Superman

You can find this in the other thread about PFF and Melvin.

[Andrew Luck fan club]

32 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

Would you like to start a thread announcing that your word on all things is final and absolute?

 

You can tell everyone there is no reason for anyone to start a thread, they can just ask you a question and you'll be happy to tell the rest of us what to think?

 

I'm sure those will go over really well!

 

You certainly know how to win friends and influence people!     Well done!     

You seem upset that Melvin is a great depth player  

[Scott Pennock]

And now we add Stribling to the PS....talk about ball skills. He had like 20+ PB's and 6 INT's as a 1.5 year starter at Michigan. Lacks top end speed but all the pre-draft write ups had him listed as a sleeper with solid press man coverage! Plus he fits the mold of 6'2" with long, active arms and hands!

[NewColtsFan]

48 minutes ago, Xander said:

You seem upset that Melvin is a great depth player  

 

Not at all...

 

I don't know how good Melvin is?   But I don't think you or Superman do either.    I think he's better than you two believe him to be,  but I agree he's likely not a starter for a playoff caliber team.   

 

But that doesn't mean he's just depth...   quality or otherwise..  

 

I think Ballard loves corners...   I expect we will be using a 1st or 2nd round pick on a corner, even if Melvin is better than we think.

[myic90]

Melvin is good depth to have. cb1 Davis slot Hairston cb2 Wilson will be my preferred line up.

 

Melvin has moxy, we need more players like him.

[akcolt]

10 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

In week two of this season, Rashad Melvin graded out to be the highest ranked cornerback in the entire NFL.   

 

Then in week three, he followed up with two interceptions.  

 

I think there's a decent chance that Melvin is a little more than a depth player.

 

 

Melvin is in a contract year and if he keeps playing like this he will get paid by someone. I thought he played well last year all things considered. I had no problem moving forward this year without bringing another vet in. The confidence the staff showed Melvin is paying off. He fits Ballard's profile 6'2 195lbs. He needs to clean up the penalties but if he continues ball he'll have a future here. He has been doing work as our CB1 lucky INT's and all. 

 

I like what we are adding at CB. We bring in Wilson 6'1 and Hairston 6' via the draft. Then we get Desir and Moore after cuts. Desir 6'1 200lbs  is  a guy i'd hoped we'd draft 2 years ago. We just added Stirbling 6'1 188, who put together a very good final year at UM, to the PS.  There's also the TJ experiment. 

 

Ballard seems determined to upgrade CB.  If we count TJ we have 8 CB's on the roster, 1 on the PS, and another on the IR . Melvin is taking advantage of the opportunity in front of him. He looks like he could be part of the future at CB for us.  

 

CB a premium position difficult to address in FA.  The position group saw a record number of players enter the league this year. We supposedly have the CB whisperer around one more year. It feels like the perfect storm. We give him 10 corners to work with. We should end up with a deep group of young press corners with size to play some physical football. 

[Superman]

16 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

I think it's ironic and appropriate that we're talking about a cornerback,  because I think you've just exhibited a fantastic bit of backpeddling.

 

Didn't say he didn't belong on the team?      Never said his ceiling is as a 4th cornerback?     I'm only sorry I've never been good at accessing the archives here.

 

So, let me put it this way......    Melvin has given us cornerback play the past two weeks that none of us predicted.   And only person who is not impressed.....    is you.

 

I try to read whatever you write,  but perhaps I missed the post where you said something positive about Melvin.   Something.       Anything.        Even.....   "Melvin has performed better than I exepected...."       I haven't see that.

 

http://forums.colts.com/topic/53876-cb-of-the-week-per-pff-rashan-melvin/?do=findComment&comment=1578850

 

@Flash7 had my back, but here's the link if you're still curious. No, I didn't nominate him for DPOY, but damn, it's hard to see how that's not saying something positive about him.

 

And if you're not able to produce something to support the claim that I said Melvin doesn't belong on the team or anything stronger than me saying I don't think he's good and I want us to add better corners, then I think you should back down from that claim. It's not true.

 

Quote

But what I've read from you in numerous posts in various threads is that people here should calm down and not get too excited about Melvin because he really isn't that good.    The for whatever good he's done,  he's also done things poorly.     I'm not saying you're wrong.      You may even be right.     But when ALL your posts have the same distinct tone of  "He's not as good as people here seem to think he is..."    it becomes pretty noticable.

 

Then what's the beef? If you're not saying I'm wrong, even allowing that maybe I'm right, then why do you have such a problem with me saying it? Unless you're ready to claim that Melvin is actually better than I'm giving him credit for (including me actually giving him credit for playing well recently), then I don't get the objection. 

 

"Man, you're hard on Melvin. I'm not saying he's good or anything, but why do you keep saying he's not good?"

 

Because it's true, IMO. That doesn't mean he hasn't played well recently, and it doesn't mean he can't continue to play well. But if we weighed all of his games on a pan scale, good games on one side, bad games on the other, the scale would tip dramatically in favor of the bad games. So pardon me for not getting all giddy about a couple of interceptions.

 

You don't have to agree, and if you want to discuss his actual play, rather than continuing to shift the focus onto the cruel and outrageous expression of my opinion on his actual play, then I'm all for that. But I'm not really interested in being antagonized because I'm not a card carrying member of his fan club after a couple good(ish) games.

 

Quote

It's just like your Chud arguments.     There's never anything positive.     All negative, all the time.     It's the same song with the same one note over and over and over again.  

   

See, and this is just a complete mischaracterization of my position on Chud. Especially the bolded. I've given Chud plenty of credit for the things he's done well, most notably the way he runs the offense for the backup QBs. 

 

You've just decided that there's no room for nuance on this subject -- either someone is in support of Chud, or completely against him -- and that's bogus. I've been critical of the things Chud's offense does that I think hold it back from reaching it's full potential. You don't have to agree, and if you want discuss those particular topics, that's absolutely fine. But I'm tired of being told that I'm being unfair to Chud because I dare to be critical of his offense.

 

Quote

You seem determined not to give Melvin any credit.     You'll only see the downside.

 

Except for when I've given him credit...

 

Again, you've decided there's no room for nuance on this. Either I'm completely for or completely against Melvin. And just like with Chud, that's bogus, and I'm tired of being told I'm being unfair because I dare to be critical of his play, even if he had two interceptions in one game. 

 

Quote

I don't know how good Melvin can be.     But I've seen enough of him to think that his past is in his past.   That he might be better than his history would suggest.     I don't know if it's Pagano working with him, or the DB coach.   But he's playing the best ball of his career.     I'm wondering when you'll notice that.....?

 

Again, in case you missed it:

 

http://forums.colts.com/topic/53876-cb-of-the-week-per-pff-rashan-melvin/?do=findComment&comment=1578850

"I think he played the best game he's played since he's been here, for sure, which is a good thing for him and for us."

 

Quote

 

Your first setence....    when did you badmouth him?    When did you downplay what he's done?      Seriously?       You asked those questions?

 

The answer is........    in every post you've ever made about the guy,   but especially the posts of the last two weeks when Melvin has played well.

 

 

I disagree. See above.

[NewColtsFan]

11 hours ago, Superman said:

 

http://forums.colts.com/topic/53876-cb-of-the-week-per-pff-rashan-melvin/?do=findComment&comment=1578850

 

@Flash7 had my back, but here's the link if you're still curious. No, I didn't nominate him for DPOY, but damn, it's hard to see how that's not saying something positive about him.

 

And if you're not able to produce something to support the claim that I said Melvin doesn't belong on the team or anything stronger than me saying I don't think he's good and I want us to add better corners, then I think you should back down from that claim. It's not true.

 

 

Then what's the beef? If you're not saying I'm wrong, even allowing that maybe I'm right, then why do you have such a problem with me saying it? Unless you're ready to claim that Melvin is actually better than I'm giving him credit for (including me actually giving him credit for playing well recently), then I don't get the objection. 

 

"Man, you're hard on Melvin. I'm not saying he's good or anything, but why do you keep saying he's not good?"

 

Because it's true, IMO. That doesn't mean he hasn't played well recently, and it doesn't mean he can't continue to play well. But if we weighed all of his games on a pan scale, good games on one side, bad games on the other, the scale would tip dramatically in favor of the bad games. So pardon me for not getting all giddy about a couple of interceptions.

 

You don't have to agree, and if you want to discuss his actual play, rather than continuing to shift the focus onto the cruel and outrageous expression of my opinion on his actual play, then I'm all for that. But I'm not really interested in being antagonized because I'm not a card carrying member of his fan club after a couple good(ish) games.

 

   

See, and this is just a complete mischaracterization of my position on Chud. Especially the bolded. I've given Chud plenty of credit for the things he's done well, most notably the way he runs the offense for the backup QBs. 

 

You've just decided that there's no room for nuance on this subject -- either someone is in support of Chud, or completely against him -- and that's bogus. I've been critical of the things Chud's offense does that I think hold it back from reaching it's full potential. You don't have to agree, and if you want discuss those particular topics, that's absolutely fine. But I'm tired of being told that I'm being unfair to Chud because I dare to be critical of his offense.

 

 

Except for when I've given him credit...

 

Again, you've decided there's no room for nuance on this. Either I'm completely for or completely against Melvin. And just like with Chud, that's bogus, and I'm tired of being told I'm being unfair because I dare to be critical of his play, even if he had two interceptions in one game. 

 

 

Again, in case you missed it:

 

http://forums.colts.com/topic/53876-cb-of-the-week-per-pff-rashan-melvin/?do=findComment&comment=1578850

"I think he played the best game he's played since he's been here, for sure, which is a good thing for him and for us."

 

 

I disagree. See above.

 

I think if there was a function that allowed me to pull up all the comments you've ever made about Melvin,  it would be you who would be surprised at what you've written.

 

As recently as just before the cutdown date,  you yourself listed Melvin as being cut from the team.    Not one of the top 5-6 CB's on the roster and your explanation for that was that you didn't know Chris Culliver was going on IR.    If that doesn't say you don't think he's very good then what does?      Because it's been Melvin as the starter opposite Vonte,  or as the number 1 CB who travels with the other teams #1 WR.     So what does that tell you about what the coaches think of Melvin and what you think of Melvin?

 

And it was you who in this thread said you thught of him at best as the back-up to the outside corners.     Well, if the top 3 corners are the two outside corners and the slot,  then you've got Melvin as the 4th best corner on the team.

 

And yet he starts.   And he's done pretty good.

 

And yes,  I posted to one of your supporters who think I'm too hard on you that,  yes,  I'm not sure how good Melvin is or can be....    but I think he's better than you give him credit for.  

 

I think you want it both ways....    like you do on Chud.     You want to be able to say "See,  It told you so" whether they suck, or whether they do well.    And you want to be able to claim you're on the right side no matter how this turns out.       Must be nice....

 

 

 

[dgambill]

On ‎9‎/‎25‎/‎2017 at 2:31 PM, Superman said:

 

Yes, let's be honest.

 

All credit to Melvin for making the play on the ball when he had the chance. Some guys can't do that... 

 

That said, neither play was a good play for him. On the first, I think he had outside coverage on a quarter zone coverage (maybe thirds coverage?), and the ball bounced his way. Not bad coverage by him, but not good coverage either. That's not to say he did anything wrong, just that the throw was errant and he was the beneficiary.

 

The second play, he was beat, and again was the beneficiary of an errant throw.

 

He was beat a couple other times, including giving up a TD despite PI, and then another PI. He also had some good plays in coverage.

 

He's still not a good cover corner. He struggles to mirror receivers, and while he's feisty at the point and will compete and knock some balls out, he doesn't typically find the ball before it gets to the receiver. He's playing better, making plays, and has tackled better the last two weeks than he did in the opener. I think he's a backup outside corner, at best, and we're using him as a starter for the second season. 

I agree...any qb other than Kizer and those throws aren't so far behind and off target. He has played well at times and had his struggles too. I don't see him as a long term solution but dang I ain't going to hate if we start Davis, Wilson, and Hairston and we got Melvin and Green backing them up....that's better than we've had in awhile. I like his tenacity and his toughness. He is a physical corner and doesn't mind tackling...we could have worse and have had worse on the roster. The trend is pointed up with this group even though maybe not all the numbers show it yet.

[dgambill]

12 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

I think if there was a function that allowed me to pull up all the comments you've ever made about Melvin,  it would be you who would be surprised at what you've written.

 

As recently as just before the cutdown date,  you yourself listed Melvin as being cut from the team.    Not one of the top 5-6 CB's on the roster and your explanation for that was that you didn't know Chris Culliver was going on IR.    If that doesn't say you don't think he's very good then what does?      Because it's been Melvin as the starter opposite Vonte,  or as the number 1 CB who travels with the other teams #1 WR.     So what does that tell you about what the coaches think of Melvin and what you think of Melvin?

 

And it was you who in this thread said you thught of him at best as the back-up to the outside corners.     Well, if the top 3 corners are the two outside corners and the slot,  then you've got Melvin as the 4th best corner on the team.

 

And yet he starts.   And he's done pretty good.

 

And yes,  I posted to one of your supporters who think I'm too hard on you that,  yes,  I'm not sure how good Melvin is or can be....    but I think he's better than you give him credit for.  

 

I think you want it both ways....    like you do on Chud.     You want to be able to say "See,  It told you so" whether they suck, or whether they do well.    And you want to be able to claim you're on the right side no matter how this turns out.       Must be nice....

 

 

 

I'm not here to take sides but lets be real. Melvin's past has been very checkered when it comes to his play. Last year he got abused but he was learning.....he is a very "handsy" defender and will draw many penalties. The last two weeks he has played against two struggling qbs (yes Carson is struggling) and had two favorable matchups. Larry is a beast but is no longer elusive..his strength is his physicality and that's allows to play into Melvins strength too. Cleveland really doesn't have any threats in the passing game. I give the kid credit and I want him to keep improving but sometimes your in the wrong place at the right time....and that's what we saw yesterday (full credit for actually catching the balls though because I've seen many a dropped sure int). I mean I'm not sure what Melvins week 1 performance got rated but just about every Rams WR was open all game long...including the newly acquired Watkins whom he was covering most of the game. Same thing with Chud...he has been really spotty...this team altogether has mostly been inconsistent the past several years...so there are some good and some bad on just about everyone. I think Supes has been pretty up front about what he likes and doesn't like about each person in the organization....and I'm sure he would love to be pleasantly surprised by some players improvement while still being skeptical of the long term outcome. While I've been for keeping Melvin the past couple years it was mostly because of his positives...he plays hard every play...he doesn't get down on himself..and he is physical. I don't think he is a very refined corner nor see elite in him...I do think he has qualities that can be used in the right situations and sparingly throughout a season. I imagine if we revisit this thread in a few weeks we will some more of what Supes has been saying become more visiable as we start facing more pass effective teams. Lucky for us we are in a weak division as far as passing/qbs go and we have SF and Sea coming up so we might not be exposed the same way some teams get when they are facing the Pittsburgs, NE, GB, ATL of the world week in and week out. We have a pretty easy early schedule....that said Jared Goff carved us up...lets not get too far ahead of ourselves.

[bradgt04]

On 9/25/2017 at 3:23 PM, PeterBowman said:

if Melvin is your #1 corner that might not be a good thing...but if he's  your #2 or so, then you're in good shape.

 

He's held his own but it'll be great when Vontae and Wilson come back.

I think there is some good competition at CB.  

[Stephen]

1 hour ago, bradgt04 said:

I think there is some good competition at CB.  

Need that at pr and mlb

[Scott Pennock]

According to the team website official roster, it appears the experiment of T.J. Green at CB is over as he is now listed as a Safety again....

[ColtsBlueFL]

On 9/26/2017 at 5:26 PM, Superman said:

 

You didn't wait.

 

He did wait... one whole blank line... 

[ColtsBlueFL]

57 minutes ago, Scott Pennock said:

According to the team website official roster, it appears the experiment of T.J. Green at CB is over as he is now listed as a Safety again....

 

Good!  I want him a 'Big Nickel' and cover big Tight Ends, big RB's.

[Superman]

23 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

And yes,  I posted to one of your supporters who think I'm too hard on you that,  yes,  I'm not sure how good Melvin is or can be....    but I think he's better than you give him credit for.  

 

I think you want it both ways....    like you do on Chud.     You want to be able to say "See,  It told you so" whether they suck, or whether they do well.    And you want to be able to claim you're on the right side no matter how this turns out.       Must be nice....

 

I'm not gonna touch the whole appeal to authority before this, because it's moot; I'm allowed to disagree with the coaches, and so is everyone else. 

 

But to this, first, it's very possible that Melvin is better than I've previously given him credit for. But I've given him more credit than you're giving me credit for, as was evidenced in the post I linked to earlier. (By the way, I'm well aware of what I've posted about Melvin. Maybe the reason you're not finding posts of me saying Melvin doesn't belong on the team or can/will never be better than a CB4 is because I haven't said those things.)

 

Second, your insistence on making it seem like I'm being unfair to Melvin or Chud is hard to understand, especially since when I ask what exactly you think I'm wrong about, you offer nothing. I say he's a backup outside corner, you say he's probably not a starter on a playoff team (same thing, isn't it?) You're not saying I'm wrong, I might even be right, but I shouldn't state my opinion because... why again? 

 

I've been specific in my criticisms of Melvin -- I think he struggles to mirror receivers, he's tight hipped, he doesn't find the ball well, and he's grabby. He's given up plays in games due to these issues (including Sunday). 

 

I've been specific in my criticisms of Chud, as well. 

 

However either of them perform, it's obvious whether my criticisms are relevant or not. I'm not trying to have anything both ways, I'm saying what I think they should do better. If Chud's offense goes off without shorter concepts, without slants and screens, and the QB holds the ball waiting for longer routes and is successful without getting pressured and hit all game long, then that's awesome, and you can throw my criticisms out the window.

 

If Melvin has a great game, then who cares what I think about his tight hips or grabbiness?

 

I wasn't sold on Brissett. He has been really good, and I've readily acknowledged that. How am I trying to have it both ways on that?

 

If I said 'Melvin is awful, I don't care whether he had two picks or that PFF likes him, he sucks and we should cut him,' then I'd understand your objection here. I didn't say anything like any of that. I gave him credit for playing better recently, then said I don't really think he's a good player. You're acting like I said I hope he dies in a fire.

 

I don't get the outrage. If I think someone or something is not optimal, I'm going to say it. I might say it multiple times. You're just going to have to come to grips with that.

[NewColtsFan]

3 hours ago, Superman said:

 

I'm not gonna touch the whole appeal to authority before this, because it's moot; I'm allowed to disagree with the coaches, and so is everyone else. 

 

But to this, first, it's very possible that Melvin is better than I've previously given him credit for. But I've given him more credit than you're giving me credit for, as was evidenced in the post I linked to earlier. (By the way, I'm well aware of what I've posted about Melvin. Maybe the reason you're not finding posts of me saying Melvin doesn't belong on the team or can/will never be better than a CB4 is because I haven't said those things.)

 

Second, your insistence on making it seem like I'm being unfair to Melvin or Chud is hard to understand, especially since when I ask what exactly you think I'm wrong about, you offer nothing. I say he's a backup outside corner, you say he's probably not a starter on a playoff team (same thing, isn't it?) You're not saying I'm wrong, I might even be right, but I shouldn't state my opinion because... why again? 

 

I've been specific in my criticisms of Melvin -- I think he struggles to mirror receivers, he's tight hipped, he doesn't find the ball well, and he's grabby. He's given up plays in games due to these issues (including Sunday). 

 

I've been specific in my criticisms of Chud, as well. 

 

However either of them perform, it's obvious whether my criticisms are relevant or not. I'm not trying to have anything both ways, I'm saying what I think they should do better. If Chud's offense goes off without shorter concepts, without slants and screens, and the QB holds the ball waiting for longer routes and is successful without getting pressured and hit all game long, then that's awesome, and you can throw my criticisms out the window.

 

If Melvin has a great game, then who cares what I think about his tight hips or grabbiness?

 

I wasn't sold on Brissett. He has been really good, and I've readily acknowledged that. How am I trying to have it both ways on that?

 

If I said 'Melvin is awful, I don't care whether he had two picks or that PFF likes him, he sucks and we should cut him,' then I'd understand your objection here. I didn't say anything like any of that. I gave him credit for playing better recently, then said I don't really think he's a good player. You're acting like I said I hope he dies in a fire.

 

I don't get the outrage. If I think someone or something is not optimal, I'm going to say it. I might say it multiple times. You're just going to have to come to grips with that.

 

Umm.....

 

I'm not finding the posts,  because I'm not looking for them.     Period.

 

That said,  you clearly ignored my point where I noted what you wrote in THIS THREAD....    that you called Melvin a back-up outside corner.     I noted that there are TWO outside corners and a slot corner,   that puts Melvin 4th on the team.    HELLO?!?     Why are you denying calling Melvin at best the 4th corner when I've just demonstrated how you did it?        Mystifying.

 

Second.....    I then noted that you said you had Melvin cut from the roster and did so because you had Culliver making the team and you didn't know he'd be put on IR.     Culliver,  who got signed very late in the summer in almost a desperation move.     And you had him pegged on the 53 over Melvin who started all four pre-season games.     That's a pretty contemptuous position to state only to have you turn around and tell me you don't think you're being unfair or harsh or bad mouthing Mevlin at all and wonder where I get that idea?

 

We've danced the dance on Chud....    but I couldn't help but notice that your fan club called out Chud this week as a terrible play caller and stated it repeatedly as a known fact....     and he did so in a week where Chud called a heckuva game and the Colts won.    Even winning does not calm the angry mob.....  

 

And then you turned around and called out Joe Philbin for....   what was it again?     Overly complex line schemes?

 

You're smart enough to know that Philbin has a great reputation as an OL coach.     You know it even though some of the lesser minds here do not.     Here comes Chud Part Deaux.     The Colts have another good coach and the mob here thinks otherwise.....    you think your voice will play a part in that?      I do.....

 

Last thought......       I'm aware of who I am and what I am around here.    Five annual public apologies says that I know I rub some people the wrong way.     I'm well aware that I've been very hard on you the past few months...  much harder than I've ever been.     I'm wondering if you thnk there might be a chance...   even a small chance that I might have even a small point in any of my criticisms.     Or is it just that NCF is being a jerk again?     Things are rarely that simple....  rarely that black and white.    There's usually some shade of gray involved.     Some nuance to use a word you like...     In a round-about way,  challenging your assertions when I think you've written poppycock is the highest compliment I can give.     I think you're the best and most influential poster here.    So I hold you to the highest standard.  

 

I'm sorry I've been a jerk to you.....    I'll try and go low profile for a little while....     I suspect we're going to get spanked Sunday.     I hope not,  but think playing at Seattle is not a good match-up for us.   Honestly,  I'll be happy if we're competitive.     So perhaps I won't post much for a few days or so.    I think the following week looks much, much better against San Fran.     Perhaps I can surface around then.....

 

 

 

[LockeDown]

i love interceptions like I love shot blocks in basketball.  It swings momentum.  It fires up the team and the fans.   Luck hasn't had that since he's been here and I just think he's going to feed off of that.  In the past, he has a bad outing and gets down on himself probably because he knows our defense might not help him out.  

[Superman]

9 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

That said,  you clearly ignored my point where I noted what you wrote in THIS THREAD....    that you called Melvin a back-up outside corner.     I noted that there are TWO outside corners and a slot corner,   that puts Melvin 4th on the team.    HELLO?!?     Why are you denying calling Melvin at best the 4th corner when I've just demonstrated how you did it?        Mystifying.

 

Why are you ignoring the difference between 'will never be better than a CB4' and 'should be a backup outside corner'? Me saying he's a backup means I want Vontae and Quincy ahead of him? Don't you?

 

And didn't you agree that he shouldn't be a starter on a playoff caliber defense? If he continues to play well, that's a different story. I hope he does. I'm not withholding credit in the name of 'I said he sucks, so I have to stick with that.' 

 

Quote

Second.....    I then noted that you said you had Melvin cut from the roster and did so because you had Culliver making the team and you didn't know he'd be put on IR.     Culliver,  who got signed very late in the summer in almost a desperation move.     And you had him pegged on the 53 over Melvin who started all four pre-season games.     That's a pretty contemptuous position to state only to have you turn around and tell me you don't think you're being unfair or harsh or bad mouthing Mevlin at all and wonder where I get that idea?

 

Culliver signed late in the summer, and IMO, still outplayed Melvin in preseason. Then he got hurt. It's not comtemptuous for me to state that I think Melvin got outplayed. You seem to think my criticism comes from some kind of personal distaste.

 

Do you disagree that Culliver played better than Melvin in preseason? Or is this another example of how I should never second guess what the coaches do?

 

Quote

We've danced the dance on Chud....    but I couldn't help but notice that your fan club called out Chud this week as a terrible play caller and stated it repeatedly as a known fact....     and he did so in a week where Chud called a heckuva game and the Colts won.    Even winning does not calm the angry mob.....  

 

So every time someone criticizes Chud, I'm responsible for it? Again, I reject that.

 

This so-called 'fan club' of mine consists of a lot of people who openly and aggressively disagree with me on numerous occasions. People here are capable of making up their own minds about anything, I don't know why you belittle them by suggesting that they only criticize Chud because I criticize Chud. 

 

Quote

 

And then you turned around and called out Joe Philbin for....   what was it again?     Overly complex line schemes?

 

You're smart enough to know that Philbin has a great reputation as an OL coach.     You know it even though some of the lesser minds here do not.     Here comes Chud Part Deaux.     The Colts have another good coach and the mob here thinks otherwise.....    you think your voice will play a part in that?      I do.....

 

 

This is nonsense, also. I didn't call out Joe Philbin. I said some of the blocking schemes seem overly complex. How is that being turned into some sort of hostility on my part? And who here doesn't respect Philbin as an OL coach?

 

Never mind that, answer this -- why is it my fault? I am not responsible for what people think, say or post here, and nothing should make that more clear than the fact that I spend most of my time here disagreeing with the unreasonable stuff that people post. 

 

Again, this is you being antagonistic because I expressed a somewhat critical opinion of something a coach did. That's incredibly unreasonable of YOU, not me.

 

Quote

Last thought......       I'm aware of who I am and what I am around here.    Five annual public apologies says that I know I rub some people the wrong way.     I'm well aware that I've been very hard on you the past few months...  much harder than I've ever been.     I'm wondering if you thnk there might be a chance...   even a small chance that I might have even a small point in any of my criticisms.     Or is it just that NCF is being a jerk again?     Things are rarely that simple....  rarely that black and white.    There's usually some shade of gray involved.     Some nuance to use a word you like...     In a round-about way,  challenging your assertions when I think you've written poppycock is the highest compliment I can give.     I think you're the best and most influential poster here.    So I hold you to the highest standard.  

 

To the bolded, it's possible. I was clearly underestimating Brissett, we had it out on that topic, and I've come around to him. I asked what's the difference between him and Morris, and the difference is clear. Great trade, he's obviously better than anyone else we've had this season (Luck aside, obviously), and I'm glad we have him. 

 

But even on that, I think you put me in a box based on what you assumed I was saying, not what I actually said. In that case, I simply asked for a discussion about his merits in comparison to another player, and you acted like I spit at the pope. I think you're putting my statements on an extreme end of these discussions, and you should know as well as anyone that I don't deal in extremes, I rarely state absolutes, and if I express something, I've probably thought about it. 

 

I don't mind you or anyone else challenging something I've said. I do mind you misrepresenting my stance, and I've said several times that I think you've done that -- on Chud, on Brissett, and now on Melvin. You can call something I've posted "poppycock" or whatever else, but if the basis for that assertion basically boils down to 'the coaches disagree with you' or 'you're making other people dislike our guys,' I don't think that's a legitimate challenge. 

 

Quote

 

I'm sorry I've been a jerk to you.....    I'll try and go low profile for a little while....     I suspect we're going to get spanked Sunday.     I hope not,  but think playing at Seattle is not a good match-up for us.   Honestly,  I'll be happy if we're competitive.     So perhaps I won't post much for a few days or so.    I think the following week looks much, much better against San Fran.     Perhaps I can surface around then.....

 

 

 

You don't have to go anywhere, that's up to you. I'm probably the only one with a complaint right now... If you want to avoid the cesspool after a bad loss, I don't blame you. 

 

I'm hoping they pull out a win. I'm not optimistic; I think we're overmatched, but it's been a while since we pulled off an honest upset, so maybe this is our week. 

[Surge89]

14 minutes ago, Superman said:

This is nonsense, also. I didn't call out Joe Philbin. I said some of the blocking schemes seem overly complex. How is that being turned into some sort of hostility on my part? And who here doesn't respect Philbin as an OL coach?

 

 

 

Yall's meaningless debate aside, I'll call out Philbin in a heartbeat.  I really don't care how reputable he is but here in Indy he has been asking for a ton of athleticism from guys that really don't have said athleticism. 

 

I need to take the time to actually do a breakdown, but I've gone through the sacks of Luck's career and while, yes definitely there is bad (really bad) oline play I can account for around 20-25% of the sacks in Lucks career directly attributed to bad blocking scheme.  (granted not all of those were coached by Philbin)

 

 

[Coffeedrinker]

So, I'm confused is Melvin a top rated corner like his PFF numbers indicate or is he a bad corner.  People are so wishy washy on the issue.

 

[Coffeedrinker]

2 hours ago, Surge89 said:

 

 

Yall's meaningless debate aside, I'll call out Philbin in a heartbeat.  I really don't care how reputable he is but here in Indy he has been asking for a ton of athleticism from guys that really don't have said athleticism. 

 

I need to take the time to actually do a breakdown, but I've gone through the sacks of Luck's career and while, yes definitely there is bad (really bad) oline play I can account for around 20-25% of the sacks in Lucks career directly attributed to bad blocking scheme.  (granted not all of those were coached by Philbin)

 

 

I agree, the blocking scheme has left a lot to be desired for the past 6 or 7 seasons.  But the blocking scheme is more of the OCs responsibility not the oline coach.  The oline coach is supposed to develop the skills and interpret/explain the scheme to the players.  So whether it's the scheme or Philbin is not doing a good job of training the scheme, we don't know.

[Smitto]

I’m not gonna hop on the Melvin bandwagon yet either... I still don’t think Melvin can cover as well as Wilson or Davis. I would not be surprised if he gets beat all up and down the field Sunday. No doubt he’s better than a lot of CBs but at best I think he’s a good backup.

[NewColtsFan]

On 9/29/2017 at 11:48 AM, Surge89 said:

 

 

Yall's meaningless debate aside, I'll call out Philbin in a heartbeat.  I really don't care how reputable he is but here in Indy he has been asking for a ton of athleticism from guys that really don't have said athleticism. 

 

I need to take the time to actually do a breakdown, but I've gone through the sacks of Luck's career and while, yes definitely there is bad (really bad) oline play I can account for around 20-25% of the sacks in Lucks career directly attributed to bad blocking scheme.  (granted not all of those were coached by Philbin)

 

 

 

Im not sure you even know that Joe Philbin's FIRST year with the Colts was  last year -- 2016.

 

So almost all the sacks you've been watching and documenting, Philbin wasn't even on the team.

 

Not 2012, 2013, 2014, and 2015.

 

And last year Philbin's line had two rookies for the entire season, (Kelly, Haig) and Clark for the last three weeks.

 

Philbin's O-line was bottom-5 for the first 9-10 games for pass blocking.    And the Colts line improved so much we were top-5 in fewest sacks allowed the last 6-7 games of the year.    That's how much we improved in the course of just one season.  All that with 2-3 rookies starting.   

 

And you want to call out Joe  Philbin?!?      You might want to consider re-thinking that viewpoint.     Or not...   up to you...

 

 

[2006Coltsbestever]

17 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

Im not sure you even know that Joe Philbin's FIRST year with the Colts was  last year -- 2016.

 

So almost all the sacks you've been watching and documenting, Philbin wasn't even on the team.

 

Not 2012, 2013, 2014, and 2015.

 

And last year Philbin's line had two rookies for the entire season, (Kelly, Haig) and Clark for the last three weeks.

 

Philbin's O-line was bottom-5 for the first 9-10 games for pass blocking.    And the Colts line improved so much we were top-5 in fewest sacks allowed the last 6-7 games of the year.    That's how much we improved in the course of just one season.  All that with 2-3 rookies starting.   

 

And you want to call out Joe  Philbin?!?      You might want to consider re-thinking that viewpoint.     Or not...   up to you...

 

 

He didn't