Are the Colts tanking this year?

[JMichael557]

Let's look at the evidence

 

1. It is apparent that the Luck will be back talk from Irsay and Ballard was at least a ruse for the early part of the season and maybe longer. 

2. Despite Luck's long term recovery we have intentionally not brought in a QB that would help us compete

3. We kept Pagano for one more year so as not to place a new coach in a no win situation without a healthy Andrew Luck

4. We signed a lot of players to one year basically tryout deals.  

5. We recognize that we need better talent which come from drafting early

 

It seems to me that Irsay and Ballard have agreed to a one year reset plan. Use the one year to evaluate what we have and then start over next year. The decision on Pagano has been made and I think that Chuck is finally starting to figure that out. If Luck goes on the PUP list to start the season then we know the above is true. 

 

 

 

 

[TheOptimist88]

Still very early to tell. Elite Quarterbacks make up for a multitude of sins. He just needs a reliable ground attack. 

[That Guy]

An unlucky stretch of injuries does not equal tanking a season.

[ColtJ82]

I don't think they are taking....I think they are just rebuilding the correct way.

 

On #3....I think we kept Pagano because you can't install a new offense when your QB isn't able to participate. Andrew's surgery saved Chuck's job, IMO. 

 

 

[ponyboy]

You should qualify the title to say "Is the Colts FO tanking this year".   Even then I don't buy it.  I can't imagine any Colts player (or any professional athlete for that matter) would intentionally *tank* even a single play, let alone a season.

 

If Luck misses a significant amount of time and/or the OL has additional setbacks, it could be a lost season, but not because the players or coaches *tanked*.

[WoolMagnet]

27 minutes ago, JMichael557 said:

Let's look at the evidence

 

1. It is apparent that the Luck will be back talk from Irsay and Ballard was at least a ruse for the early part of the season and maybe longer. 

2. Despite Luck's long term recovery we have intentionally not brought in a QB that would help us compete

3. We kept Pagano for one more year so as not to place a new coach in a no win situation without a healthy Andrew Luck

4. We signed a lot of players to one year basically tryout deals.  

5. We recognize that we need better talent which come from drafting early

 

It seems to me that Irsay and Ballard have agreed to a one year reset plan. Use the one year to evaluate what we have and then start over next year. The decision on Pagano has been made and I think that Chuck is finally starting to figure that out. If Luck goes on the PUP list to start the season then we know the above is true. 

 

 

 

 

You watch too many crime shows bud.

[JMichael557]

Worst than that I am an attorney. By the way did not mean to imply that the players or coaches are tanking as that would make zero sense. Maybe tanking is to strong of a word but I do believe that upper management and ownership have agreed to accept this year as a lost cause based on your present situation. 

 

The other problem is that I have watched the Dallas game about 10 times and I see a team that really could not compete. 

[IndyScribe]

No, they're not. Even if Ballard wanted (and I highly doubt he does), Irsay would never allow it. The Colts aren't trying to get the #1 pick this year. They're trying to improve.

[LJpalmbeacher2]

25 minutes ago, JMichael557 said:

 Let's look at the evidence

 

1. It is apparent that the Luck will be back talk from Irsay and Ballard was at least a ruse for the early part of the season and maybe longer. 

2. Despite Luck's long term recovery we have intentionally not brought in a QB that would help us compete

3. We kept Pagano for one more year so as not to place a new coach in a no win situation without a healthy Andrew Luck

4. We signed a lot of players to one year basically tryout deals.  

5. We recognize that we need better talent which come from drafting early

 

It seems to me that Irsay and Ballard have agreed to a one year reset plan. Use the one year to evaluate what we have and then start over next year. The decision on Pagano has been made and I think that Chuck is finally starting to figure that out. If Luck goes on the PUP list to start the season then we know the above is true. 

 

 

 

 

 

Not sure I would call it tanking. Bad organizations make bad decisions. We could be returning to the Dark Ages again, before Manning & Polian era. Manning raised us from ineptness from the better part of the 2 previous decades. Luck, I don't think can do what Manning did, which is to carry a franchise on his back week to week, year in  year out.

[Smitto]

What NFL organisation tanks a year? One of the most ridiculous things I've heard.. The Colts seem like they genuinely don't know when Andrew will be back.. All this conjecture when not a single Reg season game played is uncalled for. 

[Yoshinator]

32 minutes ago, JMichael557 said:

Worst than that I am an attorney. By the way did not mean to imply that the players or coaches are tanking as that would make zero sense. Maybe tanking is to strong of a word but I do believe that upper management and ownership have agreed to accept this year as a lost cause based on your present situation. 

 

The other problem is that I have watched the Dallas game about 10 times and I see a team that really could not compete. 

Your case is extremely intelligent and more than likely correct. People won't admit it on here though. You just have to put two and two together, and that's exactly what you did. Everything you said is true, regardless of the feedback you'll receive. Most likely, a high pick will come out of it, even though no one will ever admit to tanking.

Good thread actually, you put some thought and facts into your opinion.

[UKColt13]

We have a lot of injuries and are pretty much rebuilding. 

 

Not being very good isn't the same as tanking on purpose.

[1959Colts]

I won't be surprised if they "tank"

However, it may or may not be done intentionally 

[Yoshinator]

8 minutes ago, UKColt13 said:

We have a lot of injuries and are pretty much rebuilding. 

 

Not being very good isn't the same as tanking on purpose.

What makes me believe that Pagano is the sacrificial lamb though is the fact that we didn't sign a backup QB yet to start over Tolzien or Morris. Unless Luck is coming back (then I'll admit I'm wrong), we are basically admitting defeat until he returns and putting ourselves in a hole. I don't believe that would happen if Ballard hired a new coach. I believe this is a transition year to find, build, and develop new talent until Ballard hires his coach of choice next year. It may not be tanking, but what I said makes too much sense.

[bananabucket]

20 minutes ago, Smitto said:

What NFL organisation tanks a year? One of the most ridiculous things I've heard.. The Colts seem like they genuinely don't know when Andrew will be back.. All this conjecture when not a single Reg season game played is uncalled for. 

 

 

The Jets are blatantly tanking 

[RockThatBlue]

No.

[Ratking]

30 minutes ago, Jared Cisneros said:

Your case is extremely intelligent and more than likely correct. People won't admit it on here though. You just have to put two and two together, and that's exactly what you did. Everything you said is true, regardless of the feedback you'll receive. Most likely, a high pick will come out of it, even though no one will ever admit to tanking.

Good thread actually, you put some thought and facts into your opinion.

I agree, your case is very intelligently put forward.

 

I agree-

1.) The Colts organization suspects  Luck is gonna miss some games... and despite what the fan boys here say, Luck is going to look rusty when he returns for a few games or maybe the whole season. (whole season being an extreme, but possible.) 

 

2.) The Colts organization knew that without a healthy and well practiced Luck this season is gone... Doesn't matter if the defense plays like the 85' Bears or 15' Broncos. So, they allowed Pags to stay as the lame duck with the hope next year would bring some better replacement options.  

 

I disagree-

 

1.) I don't think not bringing in another qb means too much. Tolizen may look bad, but really how many backup qbs are available on the market that can fit into the schemes the rest of the Colts offense has been installing all off season? Available qbs this time of year are available for a reason.... They suck.... I think the Colts would rather have guys who suck that at least know the playbook.

 

2.) I don't know think the Colts are super worried about draft position. Teams like the Patriots show that having staff that can actually evaluate talent is much more important than your draft position. Although, I won't lie, tanking a season to get a top 5 draft pick to trade for a bunch of later round picks seems smart. Increases the chances your talent evaluators will actually pick somebody who can play.

 

I am unsure - 

My feeble mind isn't smart enough to follow the ins and outs of cap space etc.... I have no clue what any of the new free agents contracts mean. 

 

 

[KB]

To early to tell. Honestly wd could be bleh until halfway halfway through the season then catch fire and burn right through the playoffs to the superbowl. Its not the middle of preseason when you want to hit all cylinders. Its about halfway through that if they arnt clicking then they will go nowhere. I think the giants have won a superbowl or two like that. Hell thats how it looked in 06 when the colts won. Looked ok not great at the beggining then when bob sanders came back it all started to click all the way to the big game.

[Smitto]

48 minutes ago, bananabucket said:

 

 

The Jets are blatantly tanking 

They've always been a bad team... 

[BProland85]

2 hours ago, JMichael557 said:

Let's look at the evidence

 

1. It is apparent that the Luck will be back talk from Irsay and Ballard was at least a ruse for the early part of the season and maybe longer. 

2. Despite Luck's long term recovery we have intentionally not brought in a QB that would help us compete

3. We kept Pagano for one more year so as not to place a new coach in a no win situation without a healthy Andrew Luck

4. We signed a lot of players to one year basically tryout deals.  

5. We recognize that we need better talent which come from drafting early

 

It seems to me that Irsay and Ballard have agreed to a one year reset plan. Use the one year to evaluate what we have and then start over next year. The decision on Pagano has been made and I think that Chuck is finally starting to figure that out. If Luck goes on the PUP list to start the season then we know the above is true. 

 

 

 

 

 

I wouldn't call it deliberately tanking, but do I think Ballard and Irsay are treating this as a rebuild year, yes I do. I think Irsay secretely would rather have a 4-12 season with a top 5 pick over an 8-8 season and picking around 15. And I agree. 

[Jay Kirk]

I would not suggest tanking , they may loose a major portion of their fan base . People expect more effort and want honesty not smoke and mirrors and rhetoric . You are rebuilding and not trying to compete legit you better be up front and honest. People are not as misinformed as some elites may think.

[BlueShoe]

2 hours ago, JMichael557 said:

Let's look at the evidence

 

1. It is apparent that the Luck will be back talk from Irsay and Ballard was at least a ruse for the early part of the season and maybe longer. 

2. Despite Luck's long term recovery we have intentionally not brought in a QB that would help us compete

3. We kept Pagano for one more year so as not to place a new coach in a no win situation without a healthy Andrew Luck

4. We signed a lot of players to one year basically tryout deals.  

5. We recognize that we need better talent which come from drafting early

 

It seems to me that Irsay and Ballard have agreed to a one year reset plan. Use the one year to evaluate what we have and then start over next year. The decision on Pagano has been made and I think that Chuck is finally starting to figure that out. If Luck goes on the PUP list to start the season then we know the above is true. 

 

 

Can we please stop with these types of threads, at least until we lose our first meaningful game?

 

I am just as disappointed as anybody about how poorly we have played in the preseason, and I have voiced it. There has been reason to voice opinions. 

 

However, all of this fire the coaches venom, tank the season garbage, and we're only going to win a few games talk is pathetic.

 

There is no doubt that we have stunk it up so far in the first 2 preseason games, but our regular season record is still 0-0.

[TheRustonRifle#7]

The regular season hasn't even begun and Indy is tanking???????

[crazycolt1]

In my opinion, hades no. I do not believe for one second that Irsay does next expect his team to give 100%. He does not want to meet with the other owners and not hold his head up as far as his team is concerned. The media and some fans rag on him but he is well thought of as an owner within the circle of owners. (well maybe not Kraft) 

The media came up with the 'suck for Luck' after the fact. I watched every game that year and I just didn't seen a team laying down. They even won a game at the end of the season knowing the #1 pick could have been lost to St. Louis. Had they been tanking they would have stayed with Painter.

 

[Yoshinator]

11 minutes ago, Jay Kirk said:

I would not suggest tanking , they may loose a major portion of their fan base . People expect more effort and want honesty not smoke and mirrors and rhetoric . You are rebuilding and not trying to compete legit you better be up front and honest. People are not as misinformed as some elites may think.

Well, if that major portion of the fan base thinks an 8-8 season is acceptable after 6 years of drafting Luck, and actually more beneficial than a 4-12 season, then good riddance to them. Without Luck, and probably even with him, there's very little we can accomplish without another rebuilding year. Maybe a first round playoff exit at best. If we are going to rebuild this team, we might as well do it correctly.

[Steamboat_Shaun]

1 hour ago, bananabucket said:

 

 

The Jets are blatantly tanking 

 

Buffalo is as well.

[Jay Kirk]

2 minutes ago, Jared Cisneros said:

Well, if that major portion of the fan base thinks an 8-8 season is acceptable after 6 years of drafting Luck, and actually more beneficial than a 4-12 season, then good riddance to them. Without Luck, and probably even with him, there's very little we can accomplish without another rebuilding year. Maybe a first round playoff exit at best. If we are going to rebuild this team, we might as well do it correctly.

Don't disagree , just be up front and totally honest about it. It wont go well if that's the plan and they are not up front. Most of us are smart enough to figure out if that happens .

[aReggie7]

When I think of tanking I think of a team acquiring picks and young players with the intention of having a top pick in the upcoming draft. Being content with a bad present for a great future.

 

I don't think that is what the Colts did.  They would not have signed Hankins, Sheard, and Simon.

 

I still say that Pagano was only kept because the Colts couldn't get a proven upgrade. Irsay does not want to roll the dice on a rookie head coach. He wants a Harbaugh, Peyton, Gruden, etc. That is just how I read that situation. I could be wrong.

 

A lot of NFL contracts are 1-2 year deals. Depends on how they are structured but the type of deals the Colts gave free agents are pretty common. They have been doing that in the past. It's smart regardless if you are in the process of building a good team or already a contender.

 

Talent can come early in the draft but the important thing is for the team to identify and stay committed to how the team will be built/play. From there you find guys who can be difference makers in your system. I'm not saying that drafting early doesn't help that and there are not benefits to it but I don't think it is nearly as important in the NFL as it is say in the NBA.

[WoolMagnet]

2 hours ago, JMichael557 said:

Worst than that I am an attorney. By the way did not mean to imply that the players or coaches are tanking as that would make zero sense. Maybe tanking is to strong of a word but I do believe that upper management and ownership have agreed to accept this year as a lost cause based on your present situation. 

 

The other problem is that I have watched the Dallas game about 10 times and I see a team that really could not compete. 

I saw a team that looked nervous and unsure of their assignments.

i think (hope) as they get more comfortable with each other and the playbook, they will gain a second or two and we'll see more plays made. I saw alot of "almosts".

i'm not ssying we looked good, but i was encouraged by the turnovers, energy, and that defenders were on their men, just didnt make the plays.  I am hopeful this improves.

we can choose to complain and write the year off, or we can hope by midseason this team starts gelling.  If we can be close to .500 at midpoint, i think we still have shot at division.  That is a realistic goal.

get these young guys some experience, add some more players next year and we could be a solid all-around team.  

This is a temporary setback,imo, this team still has a potentially bright future. We just have to weather the storm.

[Jay Kirk]

3 minutes ago, ar7 said:

When I think of tanking I think of a team acquiring picks and young players with the intention of having a top pick in the upcoming draft. Being content with a bad present for a great future.

 

I don't think that is what the Colts did.  They would not have signed Hankins, Sheard, and Simon.

 

I still say that Pagano was only kept because the Colts couldn't get a proven upgrade. Irsay does not want to roll the dice on a rookie head coach. He wants a Harbaugh, Peyton, Gruden, etc. That is just how I read that situation. I could be wrong.

 

A lot of NFL contracts are 1-2 year deals. Depends on how they are structured but the type of deals the Colts gave free agents are pretty common. They have been doing that in the past. It's smart regardless if you are in the process of building a good team or already a contender.

 

Talent can come early in the draft but the important thing is for the team to identify and stay committed to how the team will be built/play. From there you find guys who can be difference makers in your system. I'm not saying that drafting early doesn't help that and there are not benefits to it but I don't think it is nearly as important in the NFL as it is say in the NBA.

Imo Gruden hasn't earned to be in this Group he won a S.B with Dungy's Team lol other than that hes not overly impressive .

[The Fish]

The short answer is no. Everyone would prefer Luck was ready to roll. This all hinges on his availability. 

The team isn't better than 6 wins without him, so it's not like the front office has to work any deliberate magic to make this team "worse". They are trying to win, they're just not talent wise great at running the ball or stoping other teams from running the ball at this point (thanks Grigson!).

 

[WoolMagnet]

1 hour ago, Jared Cisneros said:

What makes me believe that Pagano is the sacrificial lamb though is the fact that we didn't sign a backup QB yet to start over Tolzien or Morris. Unless Luck is coming back (then I'll admit I'm wrong), we are basically admitting defeat until he returns and putting ourselves in a hole. I don't believe that would happen if Ballard hired a new coach. I believe this is a transition year to find, build, and develop new talent until Ballard hires his coach of choice next year. It may not be tanking, but what I said makes too much sense.

I'm surprised how some think the other 31 teams have "starting" QBs at the #2 spot.  Look around the league.  The only teams that have guys we've even heard of is those with suspect #1s really.  Pittsburgh's backups are no better than ours.  I think also we see NE bring guys off the street in it seems and it works.  Newsflash, its the system guys:

i'm not saying we should be satisfied with what we have, but i think the team expected better play from tolzien and morris (not sure why we dont see him more) as they should know the offense fully now.  They both showed signs of being capable last year.  I also think they really thought Luck would be ready.  But i really think the main reason is no QB out there is attractive enuff.  We're not the only team looking.

[Yoshinator]

Just now, WoolMagnet said:

I'm surprised how some think the other 31 teams have "starting" QBs at the #2 spot.  Look around the league.  The only teams that have guys we've even heard of is those with suspect #1s really.  Pittsburgh's backups are no better than ours.  I think also we see NE bring guys off the street in it seems and it works.  Newsflash, its the system guys:

i'm not saying we should be satisfied with what we have, but i think the team expected better play from tolzien and morris (not sure why we dont see him more) as they should know the offense fully now.  They both showed signs of being capable last year.  I also think they really thought Luck would be ready.  But i really think the main reason is no QB out there is attractive enuff.  We're not the only team looking.

I agree, however, when Tannehill tore his ACL, they immediately got Cutler. When Bridgewater was hurt, they paid the price and traded for Bradford. We are choosing not too, and it's not because Tolzien and Morris are thriving in the system, it's because we are trying weather the storm most likely until Luck comes back or that we are just going through a rebuilding year, and don't want to give up any assets to get a QB temporarily. 

[Jay Kirk]

7 minutes ago, WoolMagnet said:

I'm surprised how some think the other 31 teams have "starting" QBs at the #2 spot.  Look around the league.  The only teams that have guys we've even heard of is those with suspect #1s really.  Pittsburgh's backups are no better than ours.  I think also we see NE bring guys off the street in it seems and it works.  Newsflash, its the system guys:

i'm not saying we should be satisfied with what we have, but i think the team expected better play from tolzien and morris (not sure why we dont see him more) as they should know the offense fully now.  They both showed signs of being capable last year.  I also think they really thought Luck would be ready.  But i really think the main reason is no QB out there is attractive enuff.  We're not the only team looking.

Morris impresses me more than Tolzien , however I don't see practices so there you have it . Would like to see him with first unit , once

[WoolMagnet]

15 minutes ago, Jared Cisneros said:

I agree, however, when Tannehill tore his ACL, they immediately got Cutler. When Bridgewater was hurt, they paid the price and traded for Bradford. We are choosing not too, and it's not because Tolzien and Morris are thriving in the system, it's because we are trying weather the storm most likely until Luck comes back or that we are just going through a rebuilding year, and don't want to give up any assets to get a QB temporarily. 

Bridgewaters injury is TOTALLY different and bridgewater will NEVER be a luck.  We dont want a bradford and that contract.  Seriously?  

And you cant say Cutler because Miami is the only team that made s nse becaus of Gase.  We are not lost king for an elite type.  makes no  sense.  

And whether we like it or want to admit it, this IS a rebuilding year even with  Luck.  We could bring Brady in and we still may not win the division, let alone a playoff run. 

 

[Yoshinator]

1 minute ago, WoolMagnet said:

Bridgewaters injury is TOTALLY different and bridgewater will NEVER be a luck.  We dont want a bradford and that contract.  Seriously?  

And you cant say Cutler because Miami is the only team that made s nse becaus of Gase.  We are not lost king for an elite type.  makes no  sense.  

And whether we like it or want to admit it, this IS a rebuilding year even without Luck.  We could bring Brady in and we still may not win the division, let alone a playoff run. 

 

Don't have to tell me twice there, I'm in complete agreement. 

[Iron Colt]

The Colts are a very bad football team. Better just tank.

[WoolMagnet]

11 minutes ago, Jay Kirk said:

Morris impresses me more than Tolzien , however I don't see practices so there you have it . Would like to see him with first unit , once

I think we all would.  If Morris doesnt get quality time with the 1s tonite, something is up.  Theres no way Walker is starting so why play him unless its a cut/keep decision.  Tonite is a good chance to see what Morris is.  Use tonite as a DIRECT competition between tolzien and morris. Let them know too.

[TheOptimist88]

3 hours ago, ColtJ82 said:

I don't think they are taking....I think they are just rebuilding the correct way.

 

On #3....I think we kept Pagano because you can't install a new offense when your QB isn't able to participate. Andrew's surgery saved Chuck's job, IMO. 

 

 

Damn didn't even look at it like that 

[2006Coltsbestever]

Can the season please start, enough of this nonsense!