2017-2018 Indiana Pacers and Everything NBA Thread

[2006Coltsbestever]

3 hours ago, southwest1 said:

It will be fascinating to see how extensively Cleveland cleans house after this Championship loss. Bye Bye Love.

 

Kyle Korver didn't exactly serve as a missing piece difference maker either. In any case, roster shakeup is inevitable after this Finals series. 

There isn't really much they can do, they are so far over the Salary Cap = 34,000,000 over that they are screwed. They are clearly the 2nd best team in the league so I am not sure they should do much. Despite what many may say, the Cavs have 2 other Superstars besides LeBron in Irving and Love. They also have Role players that can shoot the 3 in Korver and Smith. The Warriors are just better. PG is under contract next season and he is the only player I can think of that would make a huge impact on that team when it comes to taking down the Warriors. We aren't trading for Love and a bunch of low picks, nobody would do that. DGBill had brought up perhaps a 3 team trade with us where the Cavs could land PG but that is longshot thinking, I guess it could happen?

[2006Coltsbestever]

Best teams of all-time talk:

2017 Warriors, 2001 Lakers, 1996 Bulls, 1987 Lakers, or 1986 Celtics? I would take the 1987 Lakers. They didn't break any records but they still went 65-17 in the Regular Season and 15-3 in the Playoffs. They also beat Bird/McHale/Parish/DJ in the Finals 4-2 - it didn't even go 7. Magic/Kareem/Worthy/Scott/Cooper/Green/and Klay's daddy - Mychal Thompson coached by Pat Riley, I would roll with those dudes.

[NFLfan]

3 hours ago, southwest1 said:

If you've ever seen a guy named Skip Bayless on TV, he covered the Bulls for the Chicago Tribune in the 90's when Micheal Jordan was at the zenith of his athletic ability & Skip uses any excuse to slam LeBron James for trying to pass Jordan in the NBA record books. It's like a overzealous fan who worships the ground #23 walks on & any attempt to copycat MJ in any way by LJ is seen by Skip as some sort of disrespectful slight against his legacy. Sad & laughable on Bayless's part, but he does whatever he can to diminish & dismiss Lebron's NBA accomplishments almost daily. 

 

It's small, petty, & foolish but that's Skip. To hear him tell it, you'd think he was MJ's stepfather & publicist all in one. He loves straw man arguments which he beats to death which made him a household name. Skip can be a good analyst when he wants to be, but popularity through saying outland things for ratings is his MO now unfortunately. 

 

I only watch Skip's new show Undisputed because I like Shannon Sharpe & I love to see Skip devastated whenever his precious Cowboys lose during the season. I live for that & whenever Andrew Luck proves him wrong. I live for that. 

 

You could not pay me to listen to Bayless. He is the same guy who thinks Luck is overratted; so that should tell you something.

 

Long before he ever had his shows, he would be a guest of a radio talk show host on Sporting News Radio (in the late 90s or later). I developed a dislike for him then. I don't remember what I disagreed with or disliked about him but I just knew that I did not want to listen to him. So, what he says does not matter.

 

Anyway, this is helpful in better understanding where some of the hate comes from. Thanks.

[2006Coltsbestever]

13 minutes ago, NFLfan said:

 

You could not pay me to listen to Bayless. He is the same guy who thinks Luck is overratted; so that should tell you something.

 

Long before he ever had his shows, he would be a guest of a radio talk show host on Sporting News Radio (in the late 90s or later). I developed a dislike for him then. I don't remember what I disagreed with or disliked about him but I just knew that I did not want to listen to him. So, what he says does not matter.

 

Anyway, this is helpful in better understanding where some of the hate comes from. Thanks.

I rarely agree with him on anything, he is real annoying. He hates Luck too and finds every chance to dis Luck, that in itself is bothersome. I agree with him that Jordan is the GOAT and that is the only thing I can think of . People think I nitpick LeBron, I don't have anything on Skippy. I think he bashes LeBron way too much.

[Lucky Colts Fan]

5 hours ago, southwest1 said:

Skip can be a good analyst when he wants to be, but popularity through saying outland things for ratings is his MO now unfortunately.

 

Yeah, Skip gave up being an analyst to be an actor/entertainer.  He just plays a role for TV now.  

 

1 hour ago, NFLfan said:

You could not pay me to listen to Bayless.

 

This ^.  If I end up "down below", I know what the devil will be torturing me with for all eternity.  

[BullsColtsFan1]

15 hours ago, NFLfan said:

 

I agree completely. Harboring feelings of bitterness and rancor is not healthy for anyone. Some folks outright hate LeBron. I think had he stayed in Cleveland the first time, these folks would still dislike him. LeBron can do nothing right in their eyes. He can save a drowning baby and they would find something to criticize. 

You are probably right but I'd have a lot more respect for him if he wouldn't have left Cleveland the first time the way that he did it.  I didn't care if he left, it was his right but to have a press conference and to say not 1 not 2 not 3 nonsense etc was what made me dislike him more. 

[BullsColtsFan1]

10 hours ago, Colts_Fan12 said:

And the bandwagobers rejoice!!!

Both teams have bandwagon fans lol.  All these Cavs fans hated LeBron from 2010-2014 and most of them weren't fans until 2004.  The Warriors fans have been around since 2012-13 lol.  Both teams have plenty of bandwagon fans. 

[BullsColtsFan1]

10 hours ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

I know it's not OK for Durant to do what he did but LeBron can join Wade and Bosh and Riley and it's peaches and cream  

Oh but he didn't join a Celtics team that beat him with aging stars(1 in which he recruited 2 years later lol) so it was ok to have a big press conference to join Wade(arguably the 2nd best SG at the time) and Bosh(Arguably the 3rd best PF at the time) and to announce that they wouldn't win 1 not 2 not 3 not 4 not 5 not 6 but 7 titles lol.  That was all ok lol.  In my honest opinion LeBron started this trend by making his first super team and yea sure he came back to Cleveland(and won one, you got a give him credit for that) but he picked his team there too.  Wanted Wiggins traded for Love, wanted J.R. Smith and Shumpert, wanted Deron Williams, Richard Jefferson, James Jones and wanted Dion Waiters traded.  All the people that bash Durant for leaving have an excuse for LeBron.  If a player like Griffin or George and or Cousins goes there next year that won't be a big deal to these type of fans but now if the Warriors counter and add someone else, it's the easy way out lol.  It all comes back to LeBron starting it in my opinion. 

[BullsColtsFan1]

7 hours ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Here are the main GOAT's win/loss record in NBA Finals: Wins are 1st, then % is 2nd

1. Bill Russell 11-1 (91.7%) I put him #1 because he has 11, Jordan=best %

2. Michael Jordan 6-0 (100%)

3. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar 6-4 (60%)

4. Timmy Duncan 5-1 (83.3%)

5. Kobe Bean Bryant 5-2 (71.4%)

6. Magic Johnson 5-4 (55.6%)

7. Shaq O'Neal 4-2 (66.7%)

8. Larry Bird 3-2 (60%)

9. LeBron James 3-5 (37.5%)

10. Wilt Chamberlain 2-4 (33.3%)

 

Why don't more people consider Magic the GOAT?  You hear it at times but not nearly as much as LeBron and he played in 9 NBA Finals and won 5!  I just thought I'd throw that out there lol!

[BullsColtsFan1]

If the Warriors core of Durant, Curry, Thompson and Green stay together, this team will be a dynasty for sure.  We'll see as the years go by if one the Warriors can pay all of them plus their role players/bench and two if Thompson wants to be the 3rd/4th wheel after winning a few.  He could easily go to another team, get paid a lot more and be the 1st or 2nd option.  I don't agree with Durant going to GS but he made the right decision.  He got a ring and played out of his mind in the finals. 

[2006Coltsbestever]

10 minutes ago, BullsColtsFan1 said:

Why don't more people consider Magic the GOAT?  You hear it at times but not nearly as much as LeBron and he played in 9 NBA Finals and won 5!  I just thought I'd throw that out there lol!

Funny thing is, Magic is better that is what is sad about the media and fans that weren't old enough to watch in the 80's.

[BullsColtsFan1]

17 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Funny thing is, Magic is better that is what is sad about the media and fans that weren't old enough to watch in the 80's.

I know Jordan is the GOAT but #2-#5 is tough in my opinion.  Magic, Kareem, Wilt, Russell, Kobe, Bird, LeBron.  I'd probably say Jordan, Magic, Kareem 1-2-3. 

[2006Coltsbestever]

3 minutes ago, BullsColtsFan1 said:

I know Jordan is the GOAT but #2-#5 is tough in my opinion.  Magic, Kareem, Wilt, Russell, Kobe, Bird, LeBron.  I'd probably say Jordan, Magic, Kareem 1-2-3. 

I agree 1000%. That is my Top 3 as well. #4 is much tougher because you do have LeBron but also Kobe/Bird/Duncan/Shaq and the oldies in Wilt and Russell. I loved Shaq's dominance in the paint.

[BullsColtsFan1]

19 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

I agree 1000%. That is my Top 3 as well. #4 is much tougher because you do have LeBron but also Kobe/Bird/Duncan/Shaq and the oldies in Wilt and Russell. I loved Shaq's dominance in the paint.

Yea its definitely a tough call after one and some can even make arguments about some of those guys being 1.  Out of LeBron, Curry and Durant, who do you think will end up with more rings once they are done?  Do you think any of those 3 will catch Kobe or Duncan's 5 rings?  My gut says LeBron will get 4, Curry 5 and Durant 4 but it's an early prediction. 

[aaron11]

well its over.  hard to like either of these teams

 

i never met any warriors fans in indiana until they were good, now i know a few

 

at this point id just like to see somebody, anybody break this up so we dont have the same finals next year.  if anyone does it, its probably boston, a team with a ton of rings themselves

[2006Coltsbestever]

9 minutes ago, BullsColtsFan1 said:

Yea its definitely a tough call after one and some can even make arguments about some of those guys being 1.  Out of LeBron, Curry and Durant, who do you think will end up with more rings once they are done?  Do you think any of those 3 will catch Kobe or Duncan's 5 rings?  My gut says LeBron will get 4, Curry 5 and Durant 4 but it's an early prediction. 

That is tough to say because you never know what LeBron will do. Will they try for Paul George? Will LeBron leave Cleveland and join someone else? What if LeBron goes to San Antonio and teamed up with Leonard and Pop when he's a Free Agent?

[Bluefire4]

1 hour ago, BullsColtsFan1 said:

Why don't more people consider Magic the GOAT?  You hear it at times but not nearly as much as LeBron and he played in 9 NBA Finals and won 5!  I just thought I'd throw that out there lol!

He had another top 5 player of all time on his team.

[2006Coltsbestever]

1 minute ago, Bluefire4 said:

He had another top 5 player of all time on his team.

True but Magic was always 1a and Kareem 1b. As a Rookie Magic won Finals MVP when Kareem was injured at Philly. As a Rookie.

[BullsColtsFan1]

18 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

That is tough to say because you never know what LeBron will do. Will they try for Paul George? Will LeBron leave Cleveland and join someone else? What if LeBron goes to San Antonio and teamed up with Leonard and Pop when he's a Free Agent?

My gut says he'll keep recruiting and stay in Cleveland but if the Warriors beat him next year I honestly think he'll team up with CP3 Melo and Wade, they all mentioned they wanted to play together before their careers are over.  They would be older but still probably pretty decent.  I'd assume it'd be in LA but who knows.  The Spurs would have Parker Leonard LeBron and Aldridge.  My money says he stays in the East away from the Warriors but I guess we'll see.  Did all of this Paul George to Cleveland crap come out of no where?  I am not sure why George would want to go there.  I think the Cavs would be a hair better than they are now with George in and Love out.  I read the Cavs were going to try to trade for Cousins.  I'd be willing to bet they make some kind of moves.  Warriors are still a much better team. 

[BullsColtsFan1]

9 minutes ago, Bluefire4 said:

He had another top 5 player of all time on his team.

True Kareem was at the end of his career for a few of those though.  LeBron had arguably the 3rd best SG of all time on his two title teams with Miami, Russell had Cousy, Havlicek.  Wilt had Jerry West, Kobe had Shaq and Shaq had Kobe/Wade, Bird had arguably the best front court of all time(Bird McHale and Parrish) I don't think I can name a better one.  Each of these players had all time greats on their team.

[2006Coltsbestever]

5 minutes ago, BullsColtsFan1 said:

True Kareem was at the end of his career for a few of those though.  LeBron had arguably the 3rd best SG of all time on his two title teams with Miami, Russell had Cousy, Havlicek.  Wilt had Jerry West, Kobe had Shaq and Shaq had Kobe/Wade, Bird had arguably the best front court of all time(Bird McHale and Parrish) I don't think I can name a better one.  Each of these players had all time greats on their team.

I am out of LIKES but great points.

[2006Coltsbestever]

9 minutes ago, BullsColtsFan1 said:

My gut says he'll keep recruiting and stay in Cleveland but if the Warriors beat him next year I honestly think he'll team up with CP3 Melo and Wade, they all mentioned they wanted to play together before their careers are over.  They would be older but still probably pretty decent.  I'd assume it'd be in LA but who knows.  The Spurs would have Parker Leonard LeBron and Aldridge.  My money says he stays in the East away from the Warriors but I guess we'll see.  Did all of this Paul George to Cleveland crap come out of no where?  I am not sure why George would want to go there.  I think the Cavs would be a hair better than they are now with George in and Love out.  I read the Cavs were going to try to trade for Cousins.  I'd be willing to bet they make some kind of moves.  Warriors are still a much better team. 

Yeah it's kind of looking like the Warriors may win the next couple of Championships but it's tough to tell because of what the Cavs may have up their sleeve or Spurs may do? Injuries could happen as well.

[IndyScribe]

10 hours ago, dgambill said:

Yep but if you can't land a star to play next to him he is going to go...so if we can't I anticipate us trying to make a move

Yeah, maybe we try to sign Gordon Hayward?

[21isSuperman]

2018 NBA Finals: Cavs vs. Warriors

[Luck is Good]

45 minutes ago, IndyScribe said:

Yeah, maybe we try to sign Gordon Hayward?

Only chance to keep PG

[dgambill]

2 hours ago, BullsColtsFan1 said:

Oh but he didn't join a Celtics team that beat him with aging stars(1 in which he recruited 2 years later lol) so it was ok to have a big press conference to join Wade(arguably the 2nd best SG at the time) and Bosh(Arguably the 3rd best PF at the time) and to announce that they wouldn't win 1 not 2 not 3 not 4 not 5 not 6 but 7 titles lol.  That was all ok lol.  In my honest opinion LeBron started this trend by making his first super team and yea sure he came back to Cleveland(and won one, you got a give him credit for that) but he picked his team there too.  Wanted Wiggins traded for Love, wanted J.R. Smith and Shumpert, wanted Deron Williams, Richard Jefferson, James Jones and wanted Dion Waiters traded.  All the people that bash Durant for leaving have an excuse for LeBron.  If a player like Griffin or George and or Cousins goes there next year that won't be a big deal to these type of fans but now if the Warriors counter and add someone else, it's the easy way out lol.  It all comes back to LeBron starting it in my opinion. 

Didn't you hear last night...Lebron's never played on a super team...doesn't even know what that means....he actually said that. Lebron as a player is hard not to respect...just amazing...Lebron as a parent seems to be a great husband and father...Lebron as a sore loser....sad...really sad. He has every right to put a team together and do what he likes with his friends etc but to sit there and complain about KD going to GS after the choices he made in going to Miami and then back to Cleveland is just hypocrisy at its fullest.

 

The point you made about Lebron and picking his teammates is very important to make and exactly why he shouldn't have the power in the organization he has. He wants to win NOW...he wants his TOYS...and throws a fit when he doesn't get what he wants. We don't have enough players...whine...go out and get me Kyle Korver and D Williams and A Bogut. Guess what those guys all sucked and made his team WORSE! Also in the short-sighted pursuit of always having the best team in the league Lebron convinced Cleveland to trade Andrew Wiggins and Dion Waiters and draft picks....all players that actually would be better for his long term success than Love and old guys like Jefferson/Williams/Jones and guys that don't show up like Shumpert and also convince them to overpay Thompson who doesn't help in this new nba landscape. Lebron has his own self interest in mind and is blind to the fact of how to build a team and most important SUSTAIN one. Now Cavs have no pieces to get better...and no draft picks to groom and help him. Guess what....I'm almost betting after the 18 season he jumps ship....because his team can't get better without a lopsided trade. Maybe the NBA will help with that to keep ratings high and Lebron relevant but we shall see. Lebron needs someone to keep him in check in the front office....at least Riley was doing that in Miami and Lebron didn't like it...but I guarantee Riley would put together better players around him than Cleveland. The Bosh thing would have ruined it but I trust Riley to find great players and put together a real TEAM. Not sure where Cleveland goes from here. Thompsons contract is basically untradeable so a combo of Love/Shumpert is the most likely to get moved....not sure who that lands but they should target Butler/Rondo in Chicago...maybe he tries to get Wade to opt out and play for the exception and they somehow get Carmelo in a trade but even if they do that...its what...a one year thing.....which comes back to Lebron leaving after next season......watch for it.

[21isSuperman]

Let's see if we can swing some sort of crazy trade here...

 

Indiana receives: Avery Bradley, Marcus Smart, Jaylen Brown, 1st overall pick

Boston receives: Kevin Love, 18th overall pick, 29th overall pick

Cleveland receives: Paul George

 

Or maybe...

 

Indiana receives: Avery Bradley, Marcus Smart, Jaylen Brown, 1st overall pick

Boston receives: Jimmy Butler, Kevin Seraphin

Cleveland receives: Paul George

Chicago receives: Kevin Love, JR Smith, 18th overall pick

 

I don't see the 4 team trade happening because there are so many moving parts to consider and Chicago doesn't really benefit from it, but perhaps the 3 team trade?

[21isSuperman]

With David West finally winning his ring, will he retire?  And will the Pacers try hiring him as an assistant coach of some sort?  He's got great leadership skills

[dgambill]

1 minute ago, 21isSuperman said:

Let's see if we can swing some sort of crazy trade here...

 

Indiana receives: Avery Bradley, Marcus Smart, Jaylen Brown, 1st overall pick

Boston receives: Kevin Love, 18th overall pick, 29th overall pick

Cleveland receives: Paul George

 

Or maybe...

 

Indiana receives: Avery Bradley, Marcus Smart, Jaylen Brown, 1st overall pick

Boston receives: Jimmy Butler, Kevin Seraphin

Cleveland receives: Paul George

Chicago receives: Kevin Love, JR Smith, 18th overall pick

 

I don't see the 4 team trade happening because there are so many moving parts to consider and Chicago doesn't really benefit from it, but perhaps the 3 team trade?

I don't see Boston helping Cleveland get better. If it was moving Paul out to LA maybe....but no way would they when they have a great team right now make it impossible to get past Cleveland. Besides Hortford and Love play same position/style. A couple scenerios....

 

Remember these are crazy ones*****

 

1a Cleveland trades Shumpert, Love

Chicago trades Rondo, Butler

 

1b New York trades Carmelo

Cleveland trades Love

 

2 LAC trade Chris Paul (sign and trade)

Cleveland Kyrie Irving

(This would allow Lebron to play in the post and handle ball less and slow pace down and you get a clutch performer in Paul)

 

3 LA trades Randle, Ingram, Clarkson , 28 pick to Indy

Cleveland trades Shumpert, Love to LA

Indy trades PG to Cleveland

*LA understanding that PG and Lebron sign in 18. (don't tell me nba doesn't have under table deals) giving them a Ball, Russell, PG, Lebron, Love super team.

 

4 New York trades Melo

Cleveland trades Love 

Wade opts out of deal in Chicago....Bosh gets medical waived and they both join Lebron on low level trade exception deals created by moving Korver and Shumpert to team like Brooklyn who is below the cap and can take on salary with nothing sent back or minor players in deal.

*Cleveland then have Kyrie, Wade, Lebron, Carmelo, Thompson with JR/Bosh coming off bench...a truly ancient team that would break down I believe in the playoffs. You did say crazy right...I could do this all day lol!!!

 

Fact is all are kinda crazy and none would guarantee they over take GS.....honestly they may stand pat and try to make a trade at the trade deadline when players are cheaper and they wouldn't have to give up so much...I think that is the likeliest option.

[BullsColtsFan1]

49 minutes ago, dgambill said:

Didn't you hear last night...Lebron's never played on a super team...doesn't even know what that means....he actually said that. Lebron as a player is hard not to respect...just amazing...Lebron as a parent seems to be a great husband and father...Lebron as a sore loser....sad...really sad. He has every right to put a team together and do what he likes with his friends etc but to sit there and complain about KD going to GS after the choices he made in going to Miami and then back to Cleveland is just hypocrisy at its fullest.

 

The point you made about Lebron and picking his teammates is very important to make and exactly why he shouldn't have the power in the organization he has. He wants to win NOW...he wants his TOYS...and throws a fit when he doesn't get what he wants. We don't have enough players...whine...go out and get me Kyle Korver and D Williams and A Bogut. Guess what those guys all sucked and made his team WORSE! Also in the short-sighted pursuit of always having the best team in the league Lebron convinced Cleveland to trade Andrew Wiggins and Dion Waiters and draft picks....all players that actually would be better for his long term success than Love and old guys like Jefferson/Williams/Jones and guys that don't show up like Shumpert and also convince them to overpay Thompson who doesn't help in this new nba landscape. Lebron has his own self interest in mind and is blind to the fact of how to build a team and most important SUSTAIN one. Now Cavs have no pieces to get better...and no draft picks to groom and help him. Guess what....I'm almost betting after the 18 season he jumps ship....because his team can't get better without a lopsided trade. Maybe the NBA will help with that to keep ratings high and Lebron relevant but we shall see. Lebron needs someone to keep him in check in the front office....at least Riley was doing that in Miami and Lebron didn't like it...but I guarantee Riley would put together better players around him than Cleveland. The Bosh thing would have ruined it but I trust Riley to find great players and put together a real TEAM. Not sure where Cleveland goes from here. Thompsons contract is basically untradeable so a combo of Love/Shumpert is the most likely to get moved....not sure who that lands but they should target Butler/Rondo in Chicago...maybe he tries to get Wade to opt out and play for the exception and they somehow get Carmelo in a trade but even if they do that...its what...a one year thing.....which comes back to Lebron leaving after next season......watch for it.

Good post.  I don't think the Cavs will have the $ to sign more superstar players.  I know there owner will pay the luxury bill but Rondo, Wade, Butler, George, Cousins, Melo, if they were to acquire one or two of those they'd have to take a huge pay cut and Kevin Love and/or Kyrie would have to be traded, that's really there only trade bait.  I think J.R. just signed for 1 more year but I could be wrong.  I think they'll go after Melo or George and get rid of Love and I think they'll upgrade there bench but I think the Warriors will still be better.  I know LeBron does a lot for the community and charity and is great with his family, I respect him for that.  I've had a few people see him in public and asked him for a pic or autograph and he was a complete * about it.  I understand not catering to every single fan who wants a pic or autograph but there is a better way to go about it.  On the other hand, I hear Durant will take a pic or sign anything for anyone.  That's how it should be.  Heck Jordan's the same way.  My buddy met him and he was told less than 10 items, Jordan signed all 10 asked if he had more, said he would sign anything and take as many pics as he'd like.  I hear stories about Luck doing the same thing, I bet he's the type to take a pic or sign an autograph for anyone on the street.  I think the NBA is the Warriors league now.

[BullsColtsFan1]

11 minutes ago, dgambill said:

I don't see Boston helping Cleveland get better. If it was moving Paul out to LA maybe....but no way would they when they have a great team right now make it impossible to get past Cleveland. Besides Hortford and Love play same position/style. A couple scenerios....

 

Remember these are crazy ones*****

 

1a Cleveland trades Shumpert, Love

Chicago trades Rondo, Butler

 

1b New York trades Carmelo

Cleveland trades Love

 

2 LAC trade Chris Paul (sign and trade)

Cleveland Kyrie Irving

(This would allow Lebron to play in the post and handle ball less and slow pace down and you get a clutch performer in Paul)

 

3 LA trades Randle, Ingram, Clarkson , 28 pick to Indy

Cleveland trades Shumpert, Love to LA

Indy trades PG to Cleveland

*LA understanding that PG and Lebron sign in 18. (don't tell me nba doesn't have under table deals) giving them a Ball, Russell, PG, Lebron, Love super team.

 

4 New York trades Melo

Cleveland trades Love 

Wade opts out of deal in Chicago....Bosh gets medical waived and they both join Lebron on low level trade exception deals created by moving Korver and Shumpert to team like Brooklyn who is below the cap and can take on salary with nothing sent back or minor players in deal.

*Cleveland then have Kyrie, Wade, Lebron, Carmelo, Thompson with JR/Bosh coming off bench...a truly ancient team that would break down I believe in the playoffs. You did say crazy right...I could do this all day lol!!!

 

Fact is all are kinda crazy and none would guarantee they over take GS.....honestly they may stand pat and try to make a trade at the trade deadline when players are cheaper and they wouldn't have to give up so much...I think that is the likeliest option.

The Bulls trade is horrible, no way the Bulls do that lol, Kevin Love would be a good trade for New York for Melo but I don't think New York is going to get as much in return for Melo, his stock is going down plus I don't see how Melo upgrades a ton from love?  Why would the Cavs trade Irving for Paul?  Irving is more of a scoring guard but CP3 is hurt a lot and his 32 years old, Irving is a 25 year old stud in his prime.  That'd be a good deal for the Clippers imo.  The Lakers may get on the K Love train but there not going to give up 3 of their 5 key core players.  The best thing for the Cavs to do would be to upgrade there bench.  Maybe persuade Wade to leave Chicago and sign for league minimum(or a vet that can get 14 15 PPG willing to take league minimum), move Jr Smith to the bench and upgrade just about every other bench spot.  I can't see them getting a 4th superstar for nothing.  If they don't do something I think LeBron might leave again.

[southwest1]

6 hours ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

There isn't really much they can do, they are so far over the Salary Cap = 34,000,000 over that they are screwed. They are clearly the 2nd best team in the league so I am not sure they should do much. Despite what many may say, the Cavs have 2 other Superstars besides LeBron in Irving and Love. They also have Role players that can shoot the 3 in Korver and Smith. The Warriors are just better. PG is under contract next season and he is the only player I can think of that would make a huge impact on that team when it comes to taking down the Warriors. We aren't trading for Love and a bunch of low picks, nobody would do that. DGBill had brought up perhaps a 3 team trade with us where the Cavs could land PG but that is longshot thinking, I guess it could happen?

I'm no salary cap expert which I will readily admit to publicly. I trust that you are well versed in these matters though CBE. Yeah, the Cavs just ran into a buzz saw named KD. It's just his time to shine I guess & I'm cool with that. 

 

I've never been sold on Love. He's a star just not a superstar to me. He's valuable just not a guy who can give you miraculous scoring when you need it the most. Cleveland has nothing to be ashamed of I agree 100% It was Cleveland's time last season & Golden State's redemption this go round. 

[southwest1]

6 hours ago, NFLfan said:

 

You could not pay me to listen to Bayless. He is the same guy who thinks Luck is overratted; so that should tell you something.

 

Long before he ever had his shows, he would be a guest of a radio talk show host on Sporting News Radio (in the late 90s or later). I developed a dislike for him then. I don't remember what I disagreed with or disliked about him but I just knew that I did not want to listen to him. So, what he says does not matter.

 

Anyway, this is helpful in better understanding where some of the hate comes from. Thanks.

You're welcome NFLfan. 

 

The funny thing is that Skip thinks Luck throws too many interceptions & yet he will always defend Brett Favre who led the league in ill advised throws in critical games when #4 was in his QB heyday. Really though, all that is is propping up Favre to slam Aaron Rogers because Skip thinks he's not mentally tough enough in the playoffs to his liking. 

 

Bayless just says crazy stuff to win the click bait battle on the internet. I do laugh when he claims he's the objective one of his show vs his colleague Shannon Sharpe. He's LeBron hate runs very deep as you know. 

 

When Luck wins a SB, Skip will infer that our opponent sucked or that the refs blew a call which gave INDY another Lombardi trophy. Just watch. 

[chad72]

2 hours ago, dgambill said:

I don't see Boston helping Cleveland get better. If it was moving Paul out to LA maybe....but no way would they when they have a great team right now make it impossible to get past Cleveland. Besides Hortford and Love play same position/style. A couple scenerios....

 

Remember these are crazy ones*****

 

1a Cleveland trades Shumpert, Love

Chicago trades Rondo, Butler

 

1b New York trades Carmelo

Cleveland trades Love

 

2 LAC trade Chris Paul (sign and trade)

Cleveland Kyrie Irving

(This would allow Lebron to play in the post and handle ball less and slow pace down and you get a clutch performer in Paul)

 

3 LA trades Randle, Ingram, Clarkson , 28 pick to Indy

Cleveland trades Shumpert, Love to LA

Indy trades PG to Cleveland

*LA understanding that PG and Lebron sign in 18. (don't tell me nba doesn't have under table deals) giving them a Ball, Russell, PG, Lebron, Love super team.

 

4 New York trades Melo

Cleveland trades Love 

Wade opts out of deal in Chicago....Bosh gets medical waived and they both join Lebron on low level trade exception deals created by moving Korver and Shumpert to team like Brooklyn who is below the cap and can take on salary with nothing sent back or minor players in deal.

*Cleveland then have Kyrie, Wade, Lebron, Carmelo, Thompson with JR/Bosh coming off bench...a truly ancient team that would break down I believe in the playoffs. You did say crazy right...I could do this all day lol!!!

 

Fact is all are kinda crazy and none would guarantee they over take GS.....honestly they may stand pat and try to make a trade at the trade deadline when players are cheaper and they wouldn't have to give up so much...I think that is the likeliest option.

 

What is the rush? That is what 28 other GMs are going to say. "Hey, we are in concession mode with these 2 super teams hogging all the league's best resources. So we have a built-in excuse if our team is just competitive but doesn't stand a chance to win it all. Why would we want to rush anything just to placate Cleveland or the Warriors with a trade?"

 

If I am a team's GM, I just focus on building for 3-4 years from now and not give up key pieces so that when Lebron and/or the Warriors wear down from their dominance, my team will be ready to peak. Just saying!!!  

 

If I am Cleveland, I just improve the bench, dump duds like Tristan Thompson whose average shot distance was 3 feet and hope things get better by virtue of that.

[dgambill]

1 hour ago, chad72 said:

 

What is the rush? That is what 28 other GMs are going to say. "Hey, we are in concession mode with these 2 super teams hogging all the league's best resources. So we have a built-in excuse if our team is just competitive but doesn't stand a chance to win it all. Why would we want to rush anything just to placate Cleveland or the Warriors with a trade?"

 

If I am a team's GM, I just focus on building for 3-4 years from now and not give up key pieces so that when Lebron and/or the Warriors wear down from their dominance, my team will be ready to peak. Just saying!!!  

 

If I am Cleveland, I just improve the bench, dump duds like Tristan Thompson whose average shot distance was 3 feet and hope things get better by virtue of that.

Tristen signed a 5 yr contract for 82 million dollars!!!! Nobody is going to want that contract. Horrible contract!! Good buddy Lebron got him that deal. JR Smith signed a 4 yr 57 million dollar contract....horrible contract for a one dimensional player that shows up 1 game a series. Shumpert has 21 million dollar still owed him for doing nothing for them. Frye isn't giving them much and is owed 7 million next year. The rest is chump change and free agents outside your big 3 who are all over 20 million a piece. Those horrible deals aren't tradeable...so you have to move Love or Kyrie...and Love makes the most sense with what he gives them and his injury history. I'm saying they make minor moves this year then Lebron bolts for LA after next year.

[2006Coltsbestever]

5 hours ago, dgambill said:

Didn't you hear last night...Lebron's never played on a super team...doesn't even know what that means....he actually said that. Lebron as a player is hard not to respect...just amazing...Lebron as a parent seems to be a great husband and father...Lebron as a sore loser....sad...really sad. He has every right to put a team together and do what he likes with his friends etc but to sit there and complain about KD going to GS after the choices he made in going to Miami and then back to Cleveland is just hypocrisy at its fullest.

 

The point you made about Lebron and picking his teammates is very important to make and exactly why he shouldn't have the power in the organization he has. He wants to win NOW...he wants his TOYS...and throws a fit when he doesn't get what he wants. We don't have enough players...whine...go out and get me Kyle Korver and D Williams and A Bogut. Guess what those guys all sucked and made his team WORSE! Also in the short-sighted pursuit of always having the best team in the league Lebron convinced Cleveland to trade Andrew Wiggins and Dion Waiters and draft picks....all players that actually would be better for his long term success than Love and old guys like Jefferson/Williams/Jones and guys that don't show up like Shumpert and also convince them to overpay Thompson who doesn't help in this new nba landscape. Lebron has his own self interest in mind and is blind to the fact of how to build a team and most important SUSTAIN one. Now Cavs have no pieces to get better...and no draft picks to groom and help him. Guess what....I'm almost betting after the 18 season he jumps ship....because his team can't get better without a lopsided trade. Maybe the NBA will help with that to keep ratings high and Lebron relevant but we shall see. Lebron needs someone to keep him in check in the front office....at least Riley was doing that in Miami and Lebron didn't like it...but I guarantee Riley would put together better players around him than Cleveland. The Bosh thing would have ruined it but I trust Riley to find great players and put together a real TEAM. Not sure where Cleveland goes from here. Thompsons contract is basically untradeable so a combo of Love/Shumpert is the most likely to get moved....not sure who that lands but they should target Butler/Rondo in Chicago...maybe he tries to get Wade to opt out and play for the exception and they somehow get Carmelo in a trade but even if they do that...its what...a one year thing.....which comes back to Lebron leaving after next season......watch for it.

Fantastic Post. Yeah LeBron may not have went to a 73-9 team but anyone that knows Basketball knows when he teamed up with Wade and Bosh they were going to be the best team in Basketball. As soon as that happened I was like season over! How the Mavs beat them is still stunning and one of the biggest upsets of all-time. After that loss, the Heat won 2 in a row and even added Ray Allen. It's a different generation today that is for sure because when I grew up in the 80's, the best players never left the teams that drafted them = Jordan, Magic, Bird, Isiah, Dr J. Also when a great player lost in the Finals nobody gave them a pass for losing either. LeBron gets pass after pass, he gets a pass for losing this season because the Warriors have a loaded team, really? Hell I guess Magic should get a pass then for losing against the 1983 Sixers who went 12-1 in the Playoffs and losing to Bird's Celtics in 1984? I would've been laughed out of my school had I even remotely said something like back in the mid 80's.

 

-Also someone that is 3-5 in Finals cannot be considered the GOAT. Rings aren't the tell all but it is a part of it whether people want to admit it or not. Stats and other things determine how great a player is too, but 3-5 on the big stage looks really bad. Just keeping it real. Peyton Manning was better on the big stage compared to LeBron, at least he was 3-1 vs Brady in Championship Games and 2-2 in SB's = .500.

[2006Coltsbestever]

Regarding best player today:

It's still LeBron but Durant is definitely 2nd now and he's younger. People want to say Durant just rode the Warriors coattails which is total nonsense because the guy was the best player on the floor in the series and won MVP. He wasn't just there clinging to get a Ring.

[dgambill]

4 hours ago, BullsColtsFan1 said:

The Bulls trade is horrible, no way the Bulls do that lol, Kevin Love would be a good trade for New York for Melo but I don't think New York is going to get as much in return for Melo, his stock is going down plus I don't see how Melo upgrades a ton from love?  Why would the Cavs trade Irving for Paul?  Irving is more of a scoring guard but CP3 is hurt a lot and his 32 years old, Irving is a 25 year old stud in his prime.  That'd be a good deal for the Clippers imo.  The Lakers may get on the K Love train but there not going to give up 3 of their 5 key core players.  The best thing for the Cavs to do would be to upgrade there bench.  Maybe persuade Wade to leave Chicago and sign for league minimum(or a vet that can get 14 15 PPG willing to take league minimum), move Jr Smith to the bench and upgrade just about every other bench spot.  I can't see them getting a 4th superstar for nothing.  If they don't do something I think LeBron might leave again.

I admit they are crazy trades but they are the only big moves I could see Cleveland making to change things up. Honestly I think it's small pieces here and there because of how hard it is to pull off one of those deals. There are issues with each of them obviously but I was just throwing out crazy scenerios. I wouldn't do it if I was the Bulls either but both have controllable contracts and Butler has been disgruntled for awhile so it could be an option to get some othervplayers more playing time and move on.

 

Clippers would do it obviously and Lebron and Paul are best friends and honestly Cleveland plays better slowing the game down and Paul plays better defense. Lebrons window is small anyways and if Paul comes maybe Wade or Carmelo could come over as well and go all old team. Some crazy scenerios it will take to reimagine this Cavs team.

[dgambill]

15 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Fantastic Post. Yeah LeBron may not have went to a 73-9 team but anyone that knows Basketball knows when he teamed up with Wade and Bosh they were going to be the best team in Basketball. As soon as that happened I was like season over! How the Mavs beat them is still stunning and one of the biggest upsets of all-time. After that loss, the Heat won 2 in a row and even added Ray Allen. It's a different generation today that is for sure because when I grew up in the 80's, the best players never left the teams that drafted them = Jordan, Magic, Bird, Isiah, Dr J. Also when a great player lost in the Finals nobody gave them a pass for losing either. LeBron gets pass after pass, he gets a pass for losing this season because the Warriors have a loaded team, really? Hell I guess Magic should get a pass then for losing against the 1983 Sixers who went 12-1 in the Playoffs and losing to Bird's Celtics in 1984? I would've been laughed out of my school had I even remotely said something like back in the mid 80's.

 

-Also someone that is 3-5 in Finals cannot be considered the GOAT. Rings aren't the tell all but it is a part of it whether people want to admit it or not. Stats and other things determine how great a player is too, but 3-5 on the big stage looks really bad. Just keeping it real. Peyton Manning was better on the big stage compared to LeBron, at least he was 3-1 vs Brady in Championship Games and 2-2 in SB's = .500.

Actually players did go to great teams back then. Moses Malone forced his way to Philly? Boston didn't trade for DJ and Walton? Lakers trade for Thompson. Pistons acquire Aguirre that helped mold and cement that team. Barkley forced trade to Phoenix. Great players moved around or were acquired in trades by top teams to one up and put them over the top. Nothing like the easy movement and ganging up with friends like KD or Lebron but it happened.

[RockThatBlue]

6 hours ago, 21isSuperman said:

Let's see if we can swing some sort of crazy trade here...

 

Indiana receives: Avery Bradley, Marcus Smart, Jaylen Brown, 1st overall pick

Boston receives: Kevin Love, 18th overall pick, 29th overall pick

Cleveland receives: Paul George

 

Or maybe...

 

Indiana receives: Avery Bradley, Marcus Smart, Jaylen Brown, 1st overall pick

Boston receives: Jimmy Butler, Kevin Seraphin

Cleveland receives: Paul George

Chicago receives: Kevin Love, JR Smith, 18th overall pick

 

I don't see the 4 team trade happening because there are so many moving parts to consider and Chicago doesn't really benefit from it, but perhaps the 3 team trade?

Any deal that sends PG to the Cavs is not a good deal. Even though I would mostly like who we get in return, but strengthening the Cavs is just a bad idea.