2017-2018 Indiana Pacers and Everything NBA Thread

[Luck is Good]

1 minute ago, aaron11 said:

that day could be coming, but i think he wants to make sure the team stays in indiana

That's probably true. I've seen speculation about that

[Colts_Fan12]

1 minute ago, aaron11 said:

that day could be coming, but i think he wants to make sure the team stays in indiana

Yeah it would be nice if we could get some one in there in that wants to win a damn ring and will pay to compete 

[dgambill]

13 minutes ago, aaron11 said:

that day could be coming, but i think he wants to make sure the team stays in indiana

I doubt it. Actually if the team were to be in say Seattle it would be worth a lot more. That said the Indy market is a healthy one. They support the team and actually have one of the better tv market ratios. That's even with a few down years. It's never going to be a NY or LA size market but it's healthier than say a Milwaukee or Orlando etc. Honestly Simon may be holding on because the value of an NBA franchise is going up and his Malls are going down as brick and mortar retails will soon be unfeaseable in the coming future.

[RockThatBlue]

48 minutes ago, Luck is Good said:

Good thinking. We're already set for the 2017-2018 season with not only an NBA thread but a Pacers thread. I do like that these ones will be separate

I like the seperate thread idea too. Can help keep things less cluttered. 

[dgambill]

1 hour ago, BrentMc11 said:

We still have to pay Teague.  He is a FA.  How much does he cost?

I would love Hayward.  I think he will be a Celtic.  

Teague was like 13 million last year and is likely to be in the 20 million market this year. 

1 hour ago, Luck is Good said:

Can sign both as FA's. Have to do everything to make a contender

We can't without going well into the salary cap (very unlikely). Hayward is a 30 million dollar investment. We have to waive rights to CJ and Teague and just about everyone else not guaranteed. Doing that opens up about 32 million. The only way to then re-sign Teague is to somehow move Monta and Big Al.....very very unlikely. We could waive and extend them meaning stretching out their owed salaries for like 5 yrs. That could get us about 15 more million in cap space and perhaps if Teague took a discount to say like 17 million maybe we could squeeze him in. That said you would be very thin without much bench. Honestly the Hayward signing and keeping Teague is very unlikely...even more than just signing Hayward. You have to realize with the hopes of keeping PG we are going to be in luxury cap after re-signing PG if we have those players next year...so Simon isn't going to let us go crazy. Indy has two AWFUL players/contracts with Monta and Al....that's over 20 million on the books that would have covered Teague contract alone leaving us room for a max type player. Can't say enough about how awful those veteran win now moves were. Every time we go win now we over pay or give away valuable draft picks and we have screwed this team royally. Bird has drafted very well...but his free agents and trades have not been. It's the reason a tear down makes more sense than an all in scenerio for PG because honestly we are losing CJ...and if we re-sign Teague or keep our cap hold for Teague we can get around a 15-20 million dollar guy. Yes like a JJ Reddick level player. So basically another over paid free agent that won't make this team much better (5 games?) one and done or maybe win a rd in the playoffs.

[Luck is Good]

3 minutes ago, dgambill said:

Teague was like 13 million last year and is likely to be in the 20 million market this year. 

We can't without going well into the salary cap (very unlikely). Hayward is a 30 million dollar investment. We have to waive rights to CJ and Teague and just about everyone else not guaranteed. Doing that opens up about 32 million. The only way to then re-sign Teague is to somehow move Monta and Big Al.....very very unlikely. We could waive and extend them meaning stretching out their owed salaries for like 5 yrs. That could get us about 15 more million in cap space and perhaps if Teague took a discount to say like 17 million maybe we could squeeze him in. That said you would be very thin without much bench. Honestly the Hayward signing and keeping Teague is very unlikely...even more than just signing Hayward. You have to realize with the hopes of keeping PG we are going to be in luxury cap after re-signing PG if we have those players next year...so Simon isn't going to let us go crazy. Indy has two AWFUL players/contracts with Monta and Al....that's over 20 million on the books that would have covered Teague contract alone leaving us room for a max type player. Can't say enough about how awful those veteran win now moves were. Every time we go win now we over pay or give away valuable draft picks and we have screwed this team royally. Bird has drafted very well...but his free agents and trades have not been. It's the reason a tear down makes more sense than an all in scenerio for PG because honestly we are losing CJ...and if we re-sign Teague or keep our cap hold for Teague we can get around a 15-20 million dollar guy. Yes like a JJ Reddick level player. So basically another over paid free agent that won't make this team much better (5 games?) one and done or maybe win a rd in the playoffs.

CJ Miles and Monta Ellis are gonna be gone. No doubt about those. Wouldn't be surprised if Jefferson is too

[dgambill]

10 minutes ago, Luck is Good said:

CJ Miles and Monta Ellis are gonna be gone. No doubt about those. Wouldn't be surprised if Jefferson is too

Can't afford CJ yep...so how do you get rid of guaranteed contracts of Monta and Big Al? Nobody will take them. Do you just waive them and eat all the money this year...cause then you can't afford to upgrade the team. If you waive and stretch them then that is 7.4 million in cap hits for the next 5 years. As an example that is about a CJ miles size contract to throw wasted for the next 5 years.

[Luck is Good]

7 minutes ago, dgambill said:

Can't afford CJ yep...so how do you get rid of guaranteed contracts of Monta and Big Al? Nobody will take them. Do you just waive them and eat all the money this year...cause then you can't afford to upgrade the team. If you waive and stretch them then that is 7.4 million in cap hits for the next 5 years. As an example that is about a CJ miles size contract to throw wasted for the next 5 years.

I say this with Monta because of the anti-drug policy he violated yesterday. Pritchard didn't sound too happy about that

[RockThatBlue]

Bam Adebayo is a player who could be there at the Pacers pick. 

[aaron11]

1 hour ago, dgambill said:

 Simon may be holding on because the value of an NBA franchise is going up and his Malls are going down as brick and mortar retails will soon be unforeseeable in the coming future.

interesting point there

 

i just wonder if herb is ready to go through a tough rebuild if Pg leaves

 

even if he stays its going to be hard to get this team to compete.  we would have to hit big on mid round picks to get it done

[dgambill]

1 hour ago, Luck is Good said:

I say this with Monta because of the anti-drug policy he violated yesterday. Pritchard didn't sound too happy about that

Yep. The thing is with Monta is that he just had two years left...possibly a team could deal with him this year and then waive him next and not deal with much of a cap hit. Al on the other hand...ugh it's so sad how bad Bird f'd up this team. Why Bird didn't trade PG at the trade deadline I will never know. PG is almost untradeable now with the LA thing hanging over everyone's head...and yes rebuilding with mid-teen picks is very difficult. That said we have done good with the picks we've made. If we quit trading them for marginal talent and quit signing every over the hill vet that had one bounce back season we could put a nice young nucleus around Turner and PG we could have continued our success...after all that's how we made it to the finals with Hibbert and Lance and Paul and Hill which left us in a attract place for West to come. We have to get back to that. Not trading for Young, Troy Murphy, Dunleavy, Scola or signing awful fits like Monta, AL, and Stuckey.

 

 

[Luck is Good]

28 minutes ago, dgambill said:

Yep. The thing is with Monta is that he just had two years left...possibly a team could deal with him this year and then waive him next and not deal with much of a cap hit. Al on the other hand...ugh it's so sad how bad Bird f'd up this team. Why Bird didn't trade PG at the trade deadline I will never know. PG is almost untradeable now with the LA thing hanging over everyone's head...and yes rebuilding with mid-teen picks is very difficult. That said we have done good with the picks we've made. If we quit trading them for marginal talent and quit signing every over the hill vet that had one bounce back season we could put a nice young nucleus around Turner and PG we could have continued our success...after all that's how we made it to the finals with Hibbert and Lance and Paul and Hill which left us in a attract place for West to come. We have to get back to that. Not trading for Young, Troy Murphy, Dunleavy, Scola or signing awful fits like Monta, AL, and Stuckey.

 

 

I also wanted to trade PG at the deadline. I don't think those supposed trades were just speculation either. PG was about to be traded but Bird wanted one too many players from the Celtics

[Colts_Fan12]

I'm 100% on the trade PG train I'm a pacers fan before I'm a PG fan and when he leaves it's going to kill this team

[IndyScribe]

5 minutes ago, Colts_Fan12 said:

I'm 100% on the trade PG train I'm a pacers fan before I'm a PG fan and when he leaves it's going to kill this team

Right, so why would you want to trade PG? The Pacers are gonna suck once he leaves. I'd rather keep him and go all in to convince him to stay. 

[IndyScribe]

1 hour ago, aaron11 said:

interesting point there

 

i just wonder if herb is ready to go through a tough rebuild if Pg leaves

 

even if he stays its going to be hard to get this team to compete.  we would have to hit big on mid round picks to get it done

If he leaves, it'll be even harder to compete. If he stays, we at least have a shot. If we go all in, we may have a shot of beating the Cavs. We probably can't beat the Warriors at full strength, but injuries are a thing. A few years down the line, with PG, we may be able to compete. Pacers also have a good track record with mid round picks.

[Colts_Fan12]

3 minutes ago, IndyScribe said:

Right, so why would you want to trade PG? The Pacers are gonna suck once he leaves. I'd rather keep him and go all in to convince him to stay. 

Cause if you trade him you get assets it's gonna take a damn near miracle to build a team to compete this year with our cap hell so the chances of him leaving are very high. You trade him for a high pick and a good young player then if we tank next year we get another top 5 pick maybe tobgo with a top pick this draft and Turner and another young player it's better to build for the future then screw the cap up more 

[Colts_Fan12]

Is it just me or are the sixers gonna be a juggernaut when lebron starts to slow down I mean damn if they add Fultz to Embid Saric Simmons that's gonna be killer if healthy

[dgambill]

6 minutes ago, Colts_Fan12 said:

Cause if you trade him you get assets it's gonna take a damn near miracle to build a team to compete this year with our cap hell so the chances of him leaving are very high. You trade him for a high pick and a good young player then if we tank next year we get another top 5 pick maybe tobgo with a top pick this draft and Turner and another young player it's better to build for the future then screw the cap up more 

At this point I don't think we can land a top pick for him because of his pending FA. I honestly think the best we could do would be future picks like say if Boston or LA landed some by trading out of #1 or #2. Like say LA trades back to #5 and #10 to Sacramento and maybe they trade one of those plus Randle and say Clarkson. I just don't see anyone willing to take a risk on him. 

That said if I'm Magic and I'm trying for a rebuild I try to land PG this offseason. To me it's safer once you get him in the fold...plus Lebron is all but gone to LA after next year too...just possibly the Clippers with Paul and Melo unless you have players in place already to lure him there. I know they love Ingram but honestly the only way they get to keep the number 2?pick and get PG is to package Ingram, Randle and say 28 pick. Ingram has a lot of promise and is just as good as a top 5 pick this year imo. Randle can play that post and rebound next to Turner so you have a nice young nucleus for your front court...and you use maybe 18 and 28  to try to move up to say 12...maybe draft Donavon Mitchell. With the cap space you can re-sign Teague to lead and mentor the young guys along...you can re-sign CJ too. Suddenly you have a back court of Teague/CJ and Lance/Mitchell and Ingram//Randle/Turner/Young and still flexibility and cap space. You maybe miss playoffs a year and land another 10-12 pick next year but in 18 you should have grown to a playoff team and have that solid lottery pick. 

LA has Ball/Randle/Clarkson backcourt and PG/Deng/Nance/Mozgoff front court that in a year could look like a PG/Lebron/Cousins front court with the cap space they would likely have if PG is already in camp.

 

We aren't better for sure right away but with those young guys and drafting right they could all mature in a couple years when the Cavs are done in the East and could have as much talent as Boston. We have to remember Ingram and Randle were lottery picks just a couple years ago.

[dgambill]

8 minutes ago, Colts_Fan12 said:

Is it just me or are the sixers gonna be a juggernaut when lebron starts to slow down I mean damn if they add Fultz to Embid Saric Simmons that's gonna be killer if healthy

They have a lot of cap space and will get a couple more top 10 picks before these guys mature. Then people will be wanting to go to Philly to play. They haven't traded Okafor yet either and while I'm not big on him he is still a movable asset. The plan is coming into focus.

[Colts_Fan12]

17 minutes ago, dgambill said:

They have a lot of cap space and will get a couple more top 10 picks before these guys mature. Then people will be wanting to go to Philly to play. They haven't traded Okafor yet either and while I'm not big on him he is still a movable asset. The plan is coming into focus.

Everyone always bad mouths them but damn they are building something it's gonna be a strong young team 

[dgambill]

2 hours ago, RockThatBlue said:

Bam Adebayo is a player who could be there at the Pacers pick. 

Like his energy but very limited offensively. If they go big I might say John Collins. His efficiency ratings are off the charts and is a stud on the boards. Nice compliment to Turner. Hard to say who is there at our pick but we likely will need help on the wing. A two or three especially if CJ leaves.

[dgambill]

2 minutes ago, Colts_Fan12 said:

Everyone always bad mouths them but damn they are building something it's gonna be a strong young team 

I understood their plan. I liked how they were doing it...just haven't always liked the players they took. Not a fan of Okafor and Noel...but Fultz and Fitz could make a scary duo and if Embid can stay healthy he already is very talented. Add some shooters around them and that's a talented team.

[aaron11]

we are seeing that some fans dont want to tank no matter what, which i can understand

 

if thats the thinking then we must keep george, and try to put a team around him.

 

personally i would rather tank than be mediocre, like we have been lately.  you cant just pick in the middle part of the rounds year after year in the nba,  it doesnt get you anywhere

 

warriors did build through the draft, but curry and klay were lottery picks.  green has been one of the best second round picks in recent memory.

[Colts_Fan12]

31 minutes ago, dgambill said:

I understood their plan. I liked how they were doing it...just haven't always liked the players they took. Not a fan of Okafor and Noel...but Fultz and Fitz could make a scary duo and if Embid can stay healthy he already is very talented. Add some shooters around them and that's a talented team.

Same I didn't like the noel okafor picks either 

 

Who is Fitz

[Colts_Fan12]

32 minutes ago, aaron11 said:

we are seeing that some fans dont want to tank no matter what, which i can understand

 

if thats the thinking then we must keep george, and try to put a team around him.

 

personally i would rather tank than be mediocre, like we have been lately.  you cant just pick in the middle part of the rounds year after year in the nba,  it doesnt get you anywhere

 

warriors did build through the draft, but curry and klay were lottery picks.  green has been one of the best second round picks in recent memory.

They think tanking without Paul for one season is bad wait til he leaves us and we get nothing and suck for 10 years after 

[2006Coltsbestever]

5 hours ago, Colts_Fan12 said:

I'm just preparing myself for the suck fest that will be known as the pacers after next season when we don't improve enough and PG bolts for LA

I am not going to lie, I am worried about the teams future. Not sure what will happen in this offseason.

[Colts_Fan12]

Just now, 2006Coltsbestever said:

I am not going to lie, I am worried about the teams future. Not sure what will happen in this offseason.

If they don't handle this right it won't be very good I can tell ya that it sure won't be fun lol

[2006Coltsbestever]

1 minute ago, Colts_Fan12 said:

If they don't handle this right it won't be very good I can tell ya that it sure won't be fun lol

If we don't make any big moves and then lose PG and get nothing, we will suck.

[2006Coltsbestever]

8 minutes ago, Colts_Fan12 said:

If they don't handle this right it won't be very good I can tell ya that it sure won't be fun lol

I still think we can get the most from LA if we trade PG. Magic wants him and PG would love to play there. That 2nd pick + Randle and maybe Clarkson would be tempting. Magic is already on record saying he wont trade Ingram.

[Colts_Fan12]

46 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

I still think we can get the most from LA if we trade PG. Magic wants him and PG would love to play there. That 2nd pick + Randle and maybe Clarkson would be tempting. Magic is already on record saying he wont trade Ingram.

Id take that 

[Luck is Good]

Magic would trade Brandon Ingram for PG in a second

[dgambill]

38 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

I still think we can get the most from LA if we trade PG. Magic wants him and PG would love to play there. That 2nd pick + Randle and maybe Clarkson would be tempting. Magic is already on record saying he wont trade Ingram.

He is saying that because he doesn't want to give up the 2nd pick...thus you build up the value of what your peddling...reverse psychology. He wants to keep the second pick more than Ingram.

3 minutes ago, Luck is Good said:

Magic would trade Brandon Ingram for PG in a second

I agree. Ingram Randle and 28 would do it for me. Wouldn't like it but would take it at this point. Randle could make a nice compliment to Turner. I see Randle as a budding Zack Randolph. Ingram I don't think will be a PG because I don't see the defense but he has a nice offensive game and could be a solid scorer. 

[Luck is Good]

3 minutes ago, dgambill said:

He is saying that because he doesn't want to give up the 2nd pick...thus you build up the value of what your peddling...reverse psychology. He wants to keep the second pick more than Ingram.

I agree. Ingram Randle and 28 would do it for me. Wouldn't like it but would take it at this point. Randle could make a nice compliment to Turner. I see Randle as a budding Zack Randolph. Ingram I don't think will be a PG because I don't see the defense but he has a nice offensive game and could be a solid scorer. 

Ingram, Randle and the #2 pick would do just fine with me. That way, Pacers could still go after Gordon Hayward and re-sign Teague. Therefore, your lineup would be the following:

PG- Teague

SG-Hayward

SF- Ingram

PF- Randle

C- Turner

Couple that with Lance and Thad coming off the bench, that's a damn good team

[dgambill]

1 hour ago, Colts_Fan12 said:

Same I didn't like the noel okafor picks either 

 

Who is Fitz

Lol. I meant to delete that and I meant fultz lol but I deleted Simmons instead and typed Fultz.

[Colts_Fan12]

19 minutes ago, dgambill said:

Lol. I meant to delete that and I meant fultz lol but I deleted Simmons instead and typed Fultz.

Gotcha lol 

[2006Coltsbestever]

Well I personally would ask for and demand the #2 Pick and Ingram if I am parting ways with PG but I cant see Magic giving up both.

[Luck is Good]

1 minute ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Well I personally would ask for and demand the #2 Pick and Ingram if I am parting ways with PG but I cant see Magic giving up both.

He will if he wants PG next season. And since Magic is wanting to make a splash, it could very well happen

[2006Coltsbestever]

38 minutes ago, Luck is Good said:

Magic would trade Brandon Ingram for PG in a second

Of course straight up he would but we would want much more

[Luck is Good]

2 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Of course straight up he would but we would want much more

He would give up Ingram, Randle and the #2 pick for PG

[2006Coltsbestever]

Just now, Luck is Good said:

He would give up Ingram, Randle and the #2 pick for PG

I would do that and that is what we should ask for actually. PG is a Superstar