How would you feel drafting Forrest Lamp 15th overall?

[akcolt]

3 hours ago, ClaytonColt said:

I'm not explaining anything. You don't need me to teach you stuff.

 

I'm simply saying that I want us to build our line through a combination of scheme and coaching rather than just continually using high round picks on those players. That's exactly what a team like Dallas - the example you picked - has done.

FYI Every starter on the Cowboys OL was drafted the first 2 days. There are 3 first rounders except Collins. We all know that Collins isn't a typical UDFA. 

 

I don't want to see an early pick used on the OL this year. There is so much talent to be had on D and our's needs as much as we can get.

 

The only offense I wanted to see from the draft this year was Hunt or McNichols day 3. I'd be ok with bringing in Hop or Boom as an UDFA and going all D. I'm sick of not being able to stop anyone. 

 

We don't really know what Ballard is thinking at RG or RT. Unless he's decided that the answers are on the roster. We are probably looking at OL in the first 2 days. I don't want to use 15 on a G. 

 

OL has to be the top priority. I want to watch Luck play for a few more years at least. We have to be able to run the ball too. If that means using early picks on the OL then that's what we have to do.

 

If we can't protect Luck the D doesn't matter. I will question why we didn't address it in FA. I won't question fixing it. 

[ClaytonColt]

5 minutes ago, akcolt said:

FYI Every starter on the Cowboys OL was drafted the first 2 days. There are 3 first rounders except Collins. We all know that Collins isn't a typical UDFA. 

 

I don't want to see an early pick used on the OL this year. There is so much talent to be had on D and our's needs as much as we can get.

 

The only offense I wanted to see from the draft this year was Hunt or McNichols day 3. I'd be ok with bringing in Hop or Boom as an UDFA and going all D. I'm sick of not being able to stop anyone. 

 

We don't really know what Ballard is thinking at RG or RT. Unless he's decided that the answers are on the roster. We are probably looking at OL in the first 2 days. I don't want to use 15 on a G. 

 

OL has to be the top priority. I want to watch Luck play for a few more years at least. We have to be able to run the ball too. If that means using early picks on the OL then that's what we have to do.

 

If we can't protect Luck the D doesn't matter. I will question why we didn't address it in FA. I won't question fixing it. 

Leary was the undrafted guy I was talking about...not Collins. 

 

The other guy was a 4th round pick which is a 3rd day selection. 

[Defjamz26]

Depends on who is still on the board but I'd probably be happy. Lamp is one of the surest things in this draft. Day 1 starter at RG. If Mewhort or someone gets injured he can play LG, center, and possibly RT. He makes Luck and the run game better.

[ClaytonColt]

3 hours ago, crazycolt1 said:

It makes no difference.

At the time the picks used on the O-line was a very needy position. That was obvious. There was a couple of decent players taken at that time. Did all work out? No. That is the point that Grigson was on his way down. He is not longer here.

If Lamp is taken at #15 it does not set a pattern of anything. You are arguing an issue that has exactly zero to do with each other.

1-Luck is in a sling.

2-Luck is one season away from a season long injury.

3- We are near the bottom of the league in rushing.

4-Keeping Luck on the field increases the chances of winning with any backup QB on the roster at this time.

These are the reason I think Lamp wouldn't be the wrong pick if taken.

If Ballard goes in a different direction I have no problem with that if the player can start from day one.

You are making an issue with me that has no bearing nor is an issue because Ballard will make his pick and not give the past a thought.

 

 

It does make a difference because you'd said that there were exactly one first round on the line when in actual fact there are two.

 

I agree that Luck gets hit too much however the quarterbacks that get hit less don't necessarily need their whole line made up of 1st, 2nd and 3rd round picks. Same goes for running back who rush more successfully that Gore. I believe that once you have some talented guys on the line that you should be able to fill the remaining gaps creatively by finding effective role players, coaching and scheme.

 

Taking another OL at 15 is too much for me. I don't know if there's ever been a successful team whose line was chosen 22-59-18-15-82. It shows a lack of creativity in an area where successful teams plug and play low round picks and undrafted guys.

 

Losing yet another opportunity to improve our defense and taking the option to invest in an area which could be improved without spending significant resource is a complete waste of an opportunity.

 

 

[richard pallo]

I just read an article in Bleacher Report stating they found it hard to believe we didn't address the OL in FA and they could see us adding a OL starter with our 1st. rd. pick. 

[pgt_rob]

Since the draft is deep with defensive talent, I could see taking Lamp with our 15 and addressing OLB in the 2nd and CB possibly in the 3rd.

[crazycolt1]

2 hours ago, ClaytonColt said:

 

It does make a difference because you'd said that there were exactly one first round on the line when in actual fact there are two.

 

I agree that Luck gets hit too much however the quarterbacks that get hit less don't necessarily need their whole line made up of 1st, 2nd and 3rd round picks. Same goes for running back who rush more successfully that Gore. I believe that once you have some talented guys on the line that you should be able to fill the remaining gaps creatively by finding effective role players, coaching and scheme.

 

Taking another OL at 15 is too much for me. I don't know if there's ever been a successful team whose line was chosen 22-59-18-15-82. It shows a lack of creativity in an area where successful teams plug and play low round picks and undrafted guys.

 

Losing yet another opportunity to improve our defense and taking the option to invest in an area which could be improved without spending significant resource is a complete waste of an opportunity.

 

 

Too much for you? I suggest you give Jim Irsay a call and get him on the right path.

[ClaytonColt]

2 minutes ago, crazycolt1 said:

Too much for you? I suggest you give Jim Irsay a call and get him on the right path.

Nah, I doubt he'd be interested but I can still have a point of view.

[crazycolt1]

4 minutes ago, ClaytonColt said:

Nah, I doubt he'd be interested but I can still have a point of view.

No one is questioning your point of view. No where did I say you were wrong.

I explained my point of view but you seem to be the one who has a problem with mine.

I already ask you to please let it go but no, you still want to try impose your point over mine.

If you feel the need to be right consider yourself right. It makes no difference to me.

[ClaytonColt]

5 minutes ago, crazycolt1 said:

No one is questioning your point of view. No where did I say you were wrong.

I explained my point of view but you seem to be the one who has a problem with mine.

I already ask you to please let it go but no, you still want to try impose your point over mine.

If you feel the need to be right consider yourself right. It makes no difference to me.

I don't have a problem with your opinion at all. Just because I'm discussing things doesn't mean it's personal.

[Andrew Luck fan club]

2 hours ago, richard pallo said:

I just read an article in Bleacher Report stating they found it hard to believe we didn't address the OL in FA and they could see us adding a OL starter with our 1st. rd. pick. 

We signed Schwenke. And have two young guys. The position we completely ignored is CB, we have one starter. 

[Yoshinator]

2 hours ago, richard pallo said:

I just read an article in Bleacher Report stating they found it hard to believe we didn't address the OL in FA and they could see us adding a OL starter with our 1st. rd. pick. 

Is this just an opinion, or is there any substance that Ballard may be leaning that way? I have a feeling if it's the former, then Bleacher Report is just throwing out a guess and making an article of it.

[James Ducheteau]

3 minutes ago, Majin Vegeta said:

We signed Schwenke. And have two young guys. The position we completely ignored is CB, we have one starter. 

I don't understand why more people haven't realized just how bad our secondary is going to be if we don't get at least one press-man starter and a good slot guy. Really even with Butler I'm not super confident with the safety depth. If Green doesn't show improvement we could be one injury away from having real problems with the deep balls, remember you're probably going to have 2 rookies on the field, the safety's are going to have to cover up some mistakes this year.

[KB]

It's become clear that no matter what we do in this draft there will be a glaring hole somewhere. Either corner back, o line, running back, or linebacker is still going to need alot of improvement. Even if we take a good amount of corners it won't matter. Corner is one of the hardest trasitions from college to nfl. A hand full of rookies no matter how good is not going to change that. So I hope CB just picks the best available player to help the defense or solidify a position so it won't be a worry for awhile

[Andrew Luck fan club]

6 minutes ago, KB said:

It's become clear that no matter what we do in this draft there will be a glaring hole somewhere. Either corner back, o line, running back, or linebacker is still going to need alot of improvement. Even if we take a good amount of corners it won't matter. Corner is one of the hardest trasitions from college to nfl. A hand full of rookies no matter how good is not going to change that. So I hope CB just picks the best available player to help the defense or solidify a position so it won't be a worry for awhile

Running back is definitely not a glaring hole. O-line trending up. And rookie CBs can start. 

[crazycolt1]

27 minutes ago, ClaytonColt said:

I don't have a problem with your opinion at all. Just because I'm discussing things doesn't mean it's personal.

Good.

Now we can end this.

[KB]

44 minutes ago, Majin Vegeta said:

Running back is definitely not a glaring hole. O-line trending up. And rookie CBs can start. 

One injury on RB and it become a huge hole. Say Robert turbin goes out for just a few games. What are we going to run gore into the dirt even further.

 

O line is looking up but that dosnt mean fixed. If it was fixed then a guard in the first wouldn't even be considered. I'm ok with waiting til the fourth but if Mewhort goes down at all this year then we are screwed. 

 

Very few CBs come into the league and are able to start right away. Most take a year or two to put it all together. Any vet WR will be able to run routes so well it will give them space to catch the ball. We need to snag a few no matter what (one preferably within the first two rounds) but I don't expect us to have a good secondary at all this year. If we are average then I will be amazed.

 

No matter what this team will have alot of work to do for next offseason. 

[Andrew Luck fan club]

11 minutes ago, KB said:

One injury on RB and it become a huge hole. Say Robert turbin goes out for just a few games. What are we going to run gore into the dirt even further.

 

O line is looking up but that dosnt mean fixed. If it was fixed then a guard in the first wouldn't even be considered. I'm ok with waiting til the fourth but if Mewhort goes down at all this year then we are screwed. 

 

Very few CBs come into the league and are able to start right away. Most take a year or two to put it all together. Any vet WR will be able to run routes so well it will give them space to catch the ball. We need to snag a few no matter what (one preferably within the first two rounds) but I don't expect us to have a good secondary at all this year. If we are average then I will be amazed.

 

No matter what this team will have alot of work to do for next offseason. 

Neither Turbin or Gore are injury prone.  We're going to bring a young guy through draft or UDFA also. 

 

And it's too early to say we'd be screwed if Mewhort went down. Schwenke or Haeg could be better than we think. 

 

CB is a hard position to transition too I agree. But rookie CBs start every year. Look at Bradberry from the panthers, had like a 89 pff grade this year. 

 

I agree though we can't fix everything in one offseason. But it's just fact we only have one starting corner. Our DB situation is bad. Atleast there's optimism with the line. 

[dodsworth]

It kinda looks like Lamp possibly could be our first pick since Ballard already said that the lines are one of his top priorities if not the main priority in building a competitive team.

In order to beat our two top nemesis in the AFC, aka Pats N Steelers then we need to be able to control the lines on both sides of the ball.

 

Lamp isn't a sexy pick but the foundation of the offensive line could be set for many years to come.

[Steamboat_Shaun]

On 3/21/2017 at 3:53 PM, Superman said:

I'd come to terms with it, but I would feel like it's a missed opportunity to add a stud defender. This draft being so deep defensively, we could probably still add a couple high level guys in later rounds, and I'm not sure I'm going to be that excited about anyone there at #15 anyway. But using top 20 picks on interior OL two years in a row is not preferable. I'd rather trade back.

 

I agree with the bolded, but at the same time, that's exactly how Dallas built their o-line. 2011, 2013, and 2014 they used their 1st round picks on OL, and of course lucked out and got La'ell Collins, who was a first round talent, but went undrafted because of off-field issues. They essentially have 4 first rounders protecting Dak and opening up massive run lanes for Zeke.

 

It's not the sexiest approach, but it's hard to imagine anyone stopping our offense if we had that type of OL.

[Superman]

1 minute ago, Steamboat_Shaun said:

 

I agree with the bolded, but at the same time, that's exactly how Dallas built their o-line. 2011, 2013, and 2014 they used their 1st round picks on OL, and of course lucked out and got La'ell Collins, who was a first round talent, but went undrafted because of off-field issues. They essentially have 4 first rounders protecting Dak and opening up massive run lanes for Zeke.

 

It's not the sexiest approach, but it's hard to imagine anyone stopping our offense if we had that type of OL.

 

As you know, I think the biggest issue with our offense is the play calling, not the OL (not saying the OL doesn't need work, obviously). 

 

It's true that the line would presumably be in good shape. But you could say the same thing at other positions. If we used three or four first rounders on receivers, we'd have a great receiving corps, right? (Grigson drafted ONE first round receiver, and people act like he drafted a first round receiver every year.) 

 

I'm talking about maximizing value. Use your resources as best you can. I don't want a budget OL, I have no problem with making significant commitments to it, but I really think we could protect well if we just stressed efficiency more. We ask more of our OL in protection than almost any other team. Even if you have five top 10 studs at OL, if we keep running this offense, Luck is going to face more pressure than he should. And if you really want to snap your fingers and fix the OL, you're better off doing it in FA, because good OL hit free agency. Good pass rushers don't, disruptive interior DL don't.

[DougDew]

Perhaps its out of the norm here, but I would never be mad about who a football team drafted.  .

[NewColtsFan]

2 hours ago, DougDew said:

Perhaps its out of the norm here, but I would never be mad about who a football team drafted.  .

 

 

It would be out of the norm for all 32 fan bases........

[crazycolt1]

3 hours ago, DougDew said:

Perhaps its out of the norm here, but I would never be mad about who a football team drafted.  .

Some get mad if their opinioned player is not picked then spend a lot of time trying to tell everyone they were right. That is until the player picked turn out a good pick then it's never mentioned.

[ColtsBlueFL]

On 3/21/2017 at 5:01 PM, NewColtsFan said:

 

Lamp is the ONLY offensive player I'd be happy with in the first round.

 

Not, the only O-lineman,   the ONLY O-player.

 

Otherwise,  if we pass on him, or don't trade down to take him,  then I want defense, defense and more defense.

 

The RB can come in R3 or R4.      I'd prefer R4,  but wouldn't rule out R3.

 

Lamp is so good,  that he's the best O-lineman in the draft.    When was the last time that was said about any guard?       Didn't happen for Warmack or Cooper.     

 

If Ballard says he wants to solidify things in front of Luck, then fine,  plus Lamp in at guard,  Clark is the RT and Haeg inherits the Reitz position as the Jack of all Trades,   and the line looks really, really good.

 

 

Just curious.  Is the bolded statement above your opinion based upon your assessment, or those of others and you're relaying?

 

I have an alternative opinion from an NFL Scout (paid site information) that has 3 OL ranked together in mid round 1 grade status-

 

 

is taken form their "horizontal board", best player by grade # irregardless of playing position or scheme fit.

 

His vertical board is every player at each position separately listed down by grade, irregardless of scheme fit.

 

Knowing how so many teams need O line help desperately, I'll bet all 3 of these guys do go in round 1.

 

 

 

[Tmoney]

Recently changed my mind and Forrest Lamp is now the guy I want at #15. Locks down the RG spot and elevates the competition at RT kicking Haeg out to compete with Clark. As much as I love Haason Reddick, he's raw AF and tbh he's a bit of a project at ILB. As good as Ruben Foster is he will struggle early in his career in coverage and will never live up to the Luke Kuchley comparison.

[NewColtsFan]

1 hour ago, ColtsBlueFL said:

 

Just curious.  Is the bolded statement above your opinion based upon your assessment, or those of others and you're relaying?

 

I have an alternative opinion from an NFL Scout (paid site information) that has 3 OL ranked together in mid round 1 grade status-

 

 

is taken form their "horizontal board", best player by grade # irregardless of playing position or scheme fit.

 

His vertical board is every player at each position separately listed down by grade, irregardless of scheme fit.

 

Knowing how so many teams need O line help desperately, I'll bet all 3 of these guys do go in round 1.

 

 

 

 

I think there will be four lineman taken in the 1st round...   Lamp,  Ramczyk, Bolles and Robinson.    I think Robinson might slip out but would go high in the 2nd.     Ramczyk should go in the first, but just had hip surgery,  so if his medicals don't pan out then he too could slip out...

 

All that said,  the view above is my opinion,  and my opinion only.      I view Lamp as the highest rated O-lineman and since he's a guard and we need a guard,   I'd be fine taking him and letting Haeg take over the Reitz position.    Clark stays at RT.  

 

Just my opinion.      I take no offense with those who don't agree.....     that's the nature of the NFL beast,  we all see the same thing differently....

 

[Defjamz26]

16 hours ago, ClaytonColt said:

Leary was the undrafted guy I was talking about...not Collins. 

 

The other guy was a 4th round pick which is a 3rd day selection. 

But the 3 All-pro players on their line were all drafted on th first day (Smith, Fedricks, and Martin). 

[ClaytonColt]

1 hour ago, Defjamz26 said:

But the 3 All-pro players on their line were all drafted on th first day (Smith, Fedricks, and Martin). 

They were. I'm not doubting that those three are the bedrock of the line I'm just pointing out that the gaps are filled with lowly ranked players who are schemed and coached to make the whole unit better.

 

You shouldn't need 5 stud players to make a good line and the Dallas example actually shows that rather than justifying another high pick on the o-line.

[Defjamz26]

3 hours ago, ClaytonColt said:

They were. I'm not doubting that those three are the bedrock of the line I'm just pointing out that the gaps are filled with lowly ranked players who are schemed and coached to make the whole unit better.

 

You shouldn't need 5 stud players to make a good line and the Dallas example actually shows that rather than justifying another high pick on the o-line.

To be fair though, Collins would have been a first round pick if not for being a suspect at the time. I hear you with Free (retired but former 4th round pick) and Leary (UDFA now with Broncos) though. But with Collins that'll be 4/5 that are stud guys who were high picks or should've been with Collins. I think 4 high round picks is what you need for a good O-line. You can get away with having one lower round/UDFA guy that you coach up but that's easier said then done.

[ClaytonColt]

37 minutes ago, Defjamz26 said:

To be fair though, Collins would have been a first round pick if not for being a suspect at the time. I hear you with Free (retired but former 4th round pick) and Leary (UDFA now with Broncos) though. But with Collins that'll be 4/5 that are stud guys who were high picks or should've been with Collins. I think 4 high round picks is what you need for a good O-line. You can get away with having one lower round/UDFA guy that you coach up but that's easier said then done.

Collins barely played last year though so he isn't part of the line we're discussing. 

 

Dallas aren't the only good line in the league, it's debatable whether they are even the best. Can you name another successful team with 4 guys on the o-line who were picked in the first 3 rounds?

 

If Clark wins the RT spot as he should the RG will actually be our only spot where we don't have a high pick playing.

[DougDew]

8 hours ago, crazycolt1 said:

Some get mad if their opinioned player is not picked then spend a lot of time trying to tell everyone they were right. That is until the player picked turn out a good pick then it's never mentioned.

Agreed.  They take their fake GM role playing personally.  Invest emotionally in somebody else's decisions, then get really mad if those decisions...that are beyond their control....aren't the decisions they advocated.

 

Its a strange place to be, IMO.

[DougDew]

9 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

 

It would be out of the norm for all 32 fan bases........

Well, I don't have special internet insight into what is the norm for the millions of people who make up fan bases, but I've been a fan since age 12 and have never gotten mad at who Irsay, Tobin, Polian, or Grigson drafted or signed...or didn't draft or signed.  And I don't know anybody personally who has either.

 

The only time I got close to mad was when Grigson signed DA and didn't extend Doyle, but then got close to unmad when Irsay fired him for it.

[ColtsBlueFL]

7 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

I think there will be four lineman taken in the 1st round...   Lamp,  Ramczyk, Bolles and Robinson.    I think Robinson might slip out but would go high in the 2nd.     Ramczyk should go in the first, but just had hip surgery,  so if his medicals don't pan out then he too could slip out...

 

All that said,  the view above is my opinion,  and my opinion only.      I view Lamp as the highest rated O-lineman and since he's a guard and we need a guard,   I'd be fine taking him and letting Haeg take over the Reitz position.    Clark stays at RT.  

 

Just my opinion.      I take no offense with those who don't agree.....     that's the nature of the NFL beast,  we all see the same thing differently....

 

 

I wasn't disagreeing, necessarily.  However, I was curious to dig further into your preference is all.  I actually appreciate it when folks can take factors such a skill set/scheme fit and medicals (as well as other items) into their equation of ranking players.  I also appreciate those members that review all 24 and give their personal take.  No worries, just curious.

[NewColtsFan]

2 hours ago, DougDew said:

Well, I don't have special internet insight into what is the norm for the millions of people who make up fan bases, but I've been a fan since age 12 and have never gotten mad at who Irsay, Tobin, Polian, or Grigson drafted or signed...or didn't draft or signed.  And I don't know anybody personally who has either.

 

The only time I got close to mad was when Grigson signed DA and didn't extend Doyle, but then got close to unmad when Irsay fired him for it.

 

But you read internet fan message board and you see how hundreds of people here react....   maybe thousands...     just because you don't know them personally,  doesn't mean you don't know them.   You do,  we're all right here posting with you.

 

And you're aware of A.M. sports talk radio in your local city and you know how upset sports fan can get.   You might even read the weekly Letters to the Editor Column of the local newspaper and you see that people write in to voice concern and objections.

 

I don't have any special magical powers.....     it's part of being a fan....    they're passionate and they get upset when things don't go as planned or hoped for.....

 

[DougDew]

8 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

But you read internet fan message board and you see how hundreds of people here react....   maybe thousands...     just because you don't know them personally,  doesn't mean you don't know them.   You do,  we're all right here posting with you.

 

And you're aware of A.M. sports talk radio in your local city and you know how upset sports fan can get.   You might even read the weekly Letters to the Editor Column of the local newspaper and you see that people write in to voice concern and objections.

 

I don't have any special magical powers.....     it's part of being a fan....    they're passionate and they get upset when things don't go as planned or hoped for.....

 

I know that a lot of people get mad about who the GM picks.  I pretty much said that they do.  I said I don't, and many other people don't.  

 

What was your point of responding that its "out of the norm for 32 fan bases to not get mad" at who the GM picks when I said that I don't get mad.   Sorry, I guess I didn't follow.

[NewColtsFan]

1 minute ago, DougDew said:

I know that a lot of people get mad about who the GM picks.  I pretty much said that they do.  I said I don't, and many other people don't.  

 

What was your point of responding that its "out of the norm for 32 fan bases to not get mad" at who the GM picks when I said that I don't get mad.   Sorry, I guess I didn't follow.

 

The point is.....    you're an exception,  but you're not the rule.

 

The average fan gets upset over such things.      You don't.    But you're not the norm for fans...

 

Thats's not --- absolutely NOT --- an insult.     Just an observation.

 

[DougDew]

11 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

The point is.....    you're an exception,  

 

Thank you......

 

Wait until I talk about how Ballard should take WR Mike Williams at 15

[NewColtsFan]

1 minute ago, DougDew said:

Thank you......

 

Wait until I talk about how Ballard should take WR Mike Williams at 15

 

OK.....

 

Now THAT'S funny!      Props to you!!          

[Yoshinator]

3 minutes ago, DougDew said:

Thank you......

 

Wait until I talk about how Ballard should take WR Mike Williams at 15

That might require a ban!