Colts hire Chris Ballard as GM [Merge]

OffensivelyPC · January 30, 2017

3 minutes ago, grmasterb said:

I perused some Chiefs boards last night, and their fans are not happy about losing Ballard, especially to the Colts. Apparently, all of the playoff losses to the Colts have resulted in some real Indy hate over there.

Started in the 95-96 Divisional playoff game. That missed 40 yard field goal at the end of the game was intense.

Colts_Fan12 · January 30, 2017

Just now, SaturdayAllDay said:

So you would have traded away our starting guard from last yr (denzelle good) for a guaranteed chance at nothing??

Sure would have! you had absolutely no clue what Good would do and certainly didn't think he would be a starter he's only a starter here anyway. Just as much guessing with him as there was with taking Collins and now Collins is a better Guard.

OffensivelyPC · January 30, 2017

2 minutes ago, Majin Vegeta said:

I think this teams problems were having an absolutely terrible oline AND defense. Seriously how do people think Pagano is supposed to do good when we have absolute trash on the field. I agree he might not be a SB coach, but you cant cook without ingredients.

I don't disagree with that, but the reverse is also true. Ingredients mean little if you can't cook. As I've said before, there was blame to go all around the FO. And the reality is, even if Ballard does better than Grigson, there's little guarantee that Pagano stays around.

Andrew Luck fan club · January 30, 2017

Just now, OffensivelyPC said:

I don't disagree with that, but the reverse is also true. Ingredients mean little if you can't cook. As I've said before, there was blame to go all around the FO. And the reality is, even if Ballard does better than Grigson, there's little guarantee that Pagano stays around.

I agree with you, but we still need to realize he didn't have a good o-line or defense to work with. That's all I'm saying.

grmasterb · January 30, 2017

5 minutes ago, OffensivelyPC said:

Started in the 95-96 Divisional playoff game. That missed 40 yard field goal at the end of the game was intense.

Yep, they were the #1 seed that year. Losing the 28-point lead in the 2013 wild card game didn't help either.

OffensivelyPC · January 30, 2017

4 minutes ago, SaturdayAllDay said:

So you would have traded away our starting guard from last yr (denzelle good) for a guaranteed chance at nothing??

That's a mischaracterization of the situation. Good was the 2nd to last pick in the NFL draft. Given the NFL Draft coverage, no one had any clue who he was, so it's likely that he wasn't on many team's radars - or at least not a preferred UDFA. Chances are that we could've drafted Collins and also signed Good as a UDFA.

1 minute ago, Colts_Fan12 said:

Sure would have! you had absolutely no clue what Good would do and certainly didn't think he would be a starter he's only a starter here anyway. Just as much guessing with him as there was with taking Collins and now Collins is a better Guard.

I've always maintained that you draft that guy, if for no other reason, so no one else gets him. He might play fory ou, he might not. But you probably could've signed Good as a UDFA since he was the 2nd to last pick in the draft. You get them both and a team like the Cowboys don't add to their already stacked O-Line for pennies.

Valpo2004 · January 30, 2017

2 hours ago, csmopar said:

Correct, Grigson was not what this team needed..... however, we have the benefit of hindsight on him right now.

In this article below, I did pick up on something I previously didn't. Irsay stated he would be involved in personnel decisions at first, I'm wondering if part of the success of the first 3 years was due to Irsay being involved, it seems to be backed up by the fact that the drafting and the team fell apart when Irsay handed control fully over to his daughter and Grigson while in rehab that spring/summer. It's neither here nor there at this point as grigson is gone, but it is interestinging as well

http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/7449840/indianapolis-colts-hire-philadelphia-eagles-ryan-grigson-gm

No because that was about the time that our past mistakes caught up to us.

SaturdayAllDay · January 30, 2017

1 minute ago, Colts_Fan12 said:

Sure would have! you had absolutely no clue what Good would do and certainly didn't think he would be a starter he's only a starter here anyway. Just as much guessing with him as there was with taking Collins and now Collins is a better Guard.

Man have i got an investment opportunity for you then friend!!

If you wire me 20 bucks you will get nothing in return. Sounds like your kind of deal!! haha

Collins agent filed tried to get him switched to the supplementary draft, got denied. Told everyone his client wouldnt sign if drafted so that he could negotiate a better contract and pick his team, and said he had no problem waiting til 2016 to be drafted again. Thats a 0% chance, not the same 10% chance you yourself claimed good would have been to make the roster.

There was a reason he wasnt drafted because EVERY GM KNEW IT WAS A WASTED PICK.

NorthernBlue · January 30, 2017

I'm excited about the hire and think he'll do great here, but I'm not sure if he'll be better than grigson only because he literally hasn't done anything yet haha . Gotta see before we crown him.

He probably will be better than him, I like his front office background and he seems to be a knowledgeable guy, which is encouraging.

Anxious to see his approach to free agency especially. I think Grigson was going for the more lax approach last year. I wonder if Ballard will have the same approach or if he'll go after the guys he wants. There's some talent in the FA pool, and the Colts got money. Hopefully he isn't afraid to make a splash or two (just don't go deep sea diving haha )

Colts_Fan12 · January 30, 2017

Just now, OffensivelyPC said:

I've always maintained that you draft that guy, if for no other reason, so no one else gets him. He might play fory ou, he might not. But you probably could've signed Good as a UDFA since he was the 2nd to last pick in the draft. You get them both and a team like the Cowboys don't add to their already stacked O-Line for pennies.

Great point! I totally agree cause Good was the like second to last pick in the draft or some crap. There was a very high chance he is a UDFA.

2006Coltsbestever · January 30, 2017

9 minutes ago, OffensivelyPC said:

Started in the 95-96 Divisional playoff game. That missed 40 yard field goal at the end of the game was intense.

We have always owned them for some reason. From 1995 when Harbaugh beat them in the Divisional Round to Peyton in 2003 = same thing, then in 2013 when Andrew pulled off the greatest comeback ever.

OffensivelyPC · January 30, 2017

5 minutes ago, Majin Vegeta said:

I agree with you, but we still need to realize he didn't have a good o-line or defense to work with. That's all I'm saying.

The fact that the line improved over the course of the season is a credit to both Pagano and the OL coach (spacing on his name). If Ballard brings in guys in the draft, the defense improves, and we make the playoffs and are competitive in games against top talent and make a decent run in the playoffs, I'll support keeping Pagano another year. But the last thing I think any of us want is to have a Marvin Lewis type of HC who just can't get us over the hump.

backshoulderfade · January 30, 2017

I feel excellent.

Colts_Fan12 · January 30, 2017

2 minutes ago, SaturdayAllDay said:

Man have i got an investment opportunity for you then friend!!

If you wire me 20 bucks you will get nothing in return. Sounds like your kind of deal!!

Collins agent filed tried to get him switched to the supplementary draft, got denied. Told everyone his client wouldnt sign if drafted so that he could negotiate a better contract and pick his team, and said he had no problem waiting til 2016 to be drafted again. Thats a 0% chance, not the same 10% chance you yourself claimed good would have been to make the roster.

There was a reason he wasnt drafted because EVERY GM KNEW IT WAS A WASTED PICK.

And you are missing my point 8f he goes into the supplemental draft you lose nothing!!! We would have signed another guard you act like Hood is a world beaters he only started on our talentless line

csmopar · January 30, 2017

12 minutes ago, SaturdayAllDay said:

So you would have traded away our starting guard from last yr (denzelle good) for a guaranteed chance at nothing??

it was a rumored threat. Chances are Collins would have played regardless of taken in the 7th or not. Honestly, i'd been fine with the swing.

SaturdayAllDay · January 30, 2017

2 minutes ago, OffensivelyPC said:

That's a mischaracterization of the situation. Good was the 2nd to last pick in the NFL draft. Given the NFL Draft coverage, no one had any clue who he was, so it's likely that he wasn't on many team's radars - or at least not a preferred UDFA. Chances are that we could've drafted Collins and also signed Good as a UDFA.

I've always maintained that you draft that guy, if for no other reason, so no one else gets him. He might play fory ou, he might not. But you probably could've signed Good as a UDFA since he was the 2nd to last pick in the draft. You get them both and a team like the Cowboys don't add to their already stacked O-Line for pennies.

Thats a fair argument. But it goes both ways. We could have signed collins as well. We didnt. We could have just as easily ended up with neither player in your situation. We got one and he has exceeded expectations. I take that as a win, not a stupid move by grigson, as was originallumy posted.

I admittely didnt ever expect good to even be on the roster still let alone start, but i still think you take the 1% chance on a late round guy vs the 0% chance in hopes of sticking it to some unknown team.

Andrew Luck fan club · January 30, 2017

2 minutes ago, OffensivelyPC said:

The fact that the line improved over the course of the season is a credit to both Pagano and the OL coach (spacing on his name). If Ballard brings in guys in the draft, the defense improves, and we make the playoffs and are competitive in games against top talent and make a decent run in the playoffs, I'll support keeping Pagano another year. But the last thing I think any of us want is to have a Marvin Lewis type of HC who just can't get us over the hump.

I agree sir, and I think it's safe to say Pagano will be gone if we have a bad year.

SaturdayAllDay · January 30, 2017

2 minutes ago, csmopar said:

it was a rumored threat. Chances are Collins would have played regardless of taken in the 7th or not. Honestly, i'd been fine with the swing.

Honestly i wouldn't have been against it either. But to call it a bad move by grigson is ridiculous. In the end he got a player that exceeded his draft stock. Thats a win.

ManningGM · January 30, 2017

5 minutes ago, OffensivelyPC said:

The fact that the line improved over the course of the season is a credit to both Pagano and the OL coach (spacing on his name).

Credit to Philbin and Philbin only.

OffensivelyPC · January 30, 2017

Just now, SaturdayAllDay said:

Thats a fair argument. But it goes both ways. We could have signed collins as well. We didnt. We could have just as easily ended up with neither player in your situation. We got one and he has exceeded expectations. I take that as a win, not a stupid move by grigson, as was originallumy posted.

I admittely didnt ever expect good to even be on the roster still let alone start, but i still think you take the 1% chance on a late round guy vs the 0% chance in hopes of sticking it to some unknown team.

The difference is, Collins had his pick of the litter, which is exactly how the situation went down. Good would have had a choice as well, but the chances are that his options would have been much more limited. Every team knew Collins draft projections absent the murder investigation.

The fact that no team drafted him speaks volumes, but nevertheless, I still would've taken him. So I don't really hold it against Grigson, I just disagreed with it for several reasons.

SaturdayAllDay · January 30, 2017

4 minutes ago, Colts_Fan12 said:

And you are missing my point 8f he goes into the supplemental draft you lose nothing!!! We would have signed another guard you act like Hood is a world beaters he only started on our talentless line

We lose a pick and our gm becomes even more of a laughing stock because he was the only one dumb enough to make the move.

OffensivelyPC · January 30, 2017

Just now, ManningGM said:

Credit to Philbin and Philbin only.

Pagano hired Philbin, who's a reflection on Pagano. You may assign more credit to Philbin over Pagano, and I won't disagree, but you can't really say Pagano had nothing to do with it.

SaturdayAllDay · January 30, 2017

Just now, OffensivelyPC said:

The difference is, Collins had his pick of the litter, which is exactly how the situation went down. Good would have had a choice as well, but the chances are that his options would have been much more limited. Every team knew Collins draft projections absent the murder investigation.

The fact that no team drafted him speaks volumes, but nevertheless, I still would've taken him. So I don't really hold it against Grigson, I just disagreed with it for several reasons.

I absolutely think we should have made a play for him but id rather not have dealt with another excuse for our gm to be ridiculed on a national level. I think a flop on the pick looks waaay worse then picking good.

csmopar · January 30, 2017

2 minutes ago, SaturdayAllDay said:

Honestly i wouldn't have been against it either. But to call it a bad move by grigson is ridiculous. In the end he got a player that exceeded his draft stock. Thats a win.

it is still a miss, but maybe not one that weighs as much as others. But still a miss. And Good..... well isn't all that good

Colts_Fan12 · January 30, 2017

1 minute ago, SaturdayAllDay said:

We lose a pick and our gm becomes even more of a laughing stock because he was the only one dumb enough to make the move.

Highly unlikely seeing as he turned out to be a good player it would have been a plus for him

SilentHill · January 30, 2017

I think he'll be better, but I won't have any inclination until we start releasing players and the start of FA.

SilentHill · January 30, 2017

14 minutes ago, Majin Vegeta said:

I agree sir, and I think it's safe to say Pagano will be gone if we have a bad year.

We're just waiting for Harbaugh to come out of Michigan, Pep Hamilton was brought in to be his successor IMHO.

21isSuperman · January 30, 2017

2 hours ago, Myles said:

Curious on the opinions.

Merged

SaturdayAllDay · January 30, 2017

15 minutes ago, Colts_Fan12 said:

Highly unlikely seeing as he turned out to be a good player it would have been a plus for him

That's assuming he played for us. If he never signs and re enters the 2016 draft he is a complete waste of a pick. Doesnt play a single snap.

stitches · January 30, 2017

Andrew Luck fan club · January 30, 2017

9 minutes ago, SilentHill said:

We're just waiting for Harbaugh to come out of Michigan, Pep Hamilton was brought in to be his successor IMHO.

Hahah yes. I've already said on record I think Harbaugh will be our coach next season.

SaturdayAllDay · January 30, 2017

20 minutes ago, csmopar said:

it is still a miss, but maybe not one that weighs as much as others. But still a miss. And Good..... well isn't all that good

Yah but you cant really fault him for missing what EVERY other gm missed on. Do you think the patriots forums are chastising BB about not drafting collins??

Colts_Fan12 · January 30, 2017

2 minutes ago, SaturdayAllDay said:

That's assuming he played for us. If he never signs and re enters the 2016 draft he is a complete waste of a pick. Doesnt play a single snap.

And we still have Good as a UDFA so no loss possible big gain

SaturdayAllDay · January 30, 2017

Just now, Colts_Fan12 said:

And we still have Good as a UDFA so no loss possible big gain

IF we were able to sign him. Just like we didnt get collins as an udfa, we could have missed out on good as well.

Colts_Fan12 · January 30, 2017

5 minutes ago, SaturdayAllDay said:

IF we were able to sign him. Just like we didnt get collins as an udfa, we could have missed out on good as well.

Like OPC said no one even knew who he was. Like I said tho Good is no world beater we could have signed any guard to play that year if we had missed on Good and Collins and got about the same production.

Finball · January 30, 2017

1 hour ago, SaturdayAllDay said:

So you would have traded away our starting guard from last yr (denzelle good) for a guaranteed chance at nothing??

It was a bluff from Collins and his agent. And it worked.

Quote

“We can put it on the record now: We were never going back in the draft,” (agent) Smith says of waiting for the 2016 draft. “If someone had drafted him, we would’ve had a long, long discussion about it, but at the end of the day you can’t go back in the draft. He could get injured, gain weight, or 10 great tackles could come out. Too many risks.”

http://mmqb.si.com/2015/05/15/lael-collins-nfl-draft-dallas-cowboys-murder-investigation

SaturdayAllDay · January 30, 2017

Just now, Colts_Fan12 said:

Like OPC said no one even knew who he was. Like I said tho Good is no world beater we could have signed any guard to play that year if we had missed on Good and Collins and got about the same production.

Agreed that he is no world beater but he is a backup level player. You yourself said that 90% of 7th round players dont even make the final 53. That means we found one of those 1/10 chance guys. I think we could have done a lot worse had we got one of those 90% chance guys. We got a player who outperformed his draft stock rather than taking a chance that no one else made and which would have made grigson more of a laughing stock then he already was. The fact that no one touched him in the draft, to me, means that all the gms knew it was a bad move. They have WAAAY more insight into what was going on than we do.

Yes in hindsight it MAY have turned out better (and that is still debateable), but at the time it was the right call and its hardly fair to fault any gm for not making that decision.

Colts_Fan12 · January 30, 2017

1 minute ago, SaturdayAllDay said:

Agreed that he is no world beater but he is a backup level player. You yourself said that 90% of 7th round players dont even make the final 53. That means we found one of those 1/10 chance guys. I think we could have done a lot worse had we got one of those 90% chance guys. We got a player who outperformed his draft stock rather than taking a chance that no one else made and which would have made grigson more of a laughing stock then he already was. The fact that no one touched him in the draft, to me, means that all the gms knew it was a bad move. They have WAAAY more insight into what was going on than we do.

Yes in hindsight it MAY have turned out better (and that is still debateable), but at the time it was the right call and its hardly fair to fault any gm for not making that decision.

He prolly doesn't make a team other then the Colts cause we were God awful on the O line for years. So you are praising him a little too much. I'm done arguing this the potential reward was WAY worth the risk end of story.

ManningGM · January 30, 2017

25 minutes ago, Majin Vegeta said:

Hahah yes. I've already said on record I think Harbaugh will be our coach next season.

I hope that's the case....I'm cool with either him or Toub. It certainly would make keeping Pagano for another year worth the wait.

Myles · January 30, 2017

1 hour ago, OffensivelyPC said:

lol of course not. I think he will be better - he should be anyway.

Then shouldn't you have voted that way?

I know the HC is part of it, but Pagano or not, I think we can all see how void of talent this team is.

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Colts hire Chris Ballard as GM [Merge]

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