Ballard Reportedly Prefers Dave Taub as Head Coach

[MONEYdontLIE]

Personally I feel whoever our new GM is they are somewhat handcuffed to Pagano... They may not share the same "vision" per say but I'm not too hot on any of the available names for head coaching gigs this late in the game either way...

 

If I was our new GM I'd ride it out with Pagano this year... The defense needs playmakers PERIOD regardless of position or possible scheme change next year... Pick the best players this year... Find the man to lead them next year...

 

This may not be the optimal situation to fall into regarding coaching... But as a GM knowing I'm inheriting Luck and cap space like we have??? All day everyday lol

[Tsarquise]

33 minutes ago, Colts1324 said:

I don't think "that will be it" necessarily for Pagano. I hope so. But if Irsay already told all his coaches and positional coaches they are safe for 2017, you can't turn your back on them and say sorry I've changed my mind. I don't see Irsay doing that. 

He did it to Caldwell.

[Colts1324]

1 minute ago, Coltsman1788 said:

Irsay wouldn't have to. Ballard would do that for him if it came down to that.  Such is life in the N.F. of L. 

That's true. But Irsay is too good of a guy for that IMO. Irsay may have told him that it's a possibility and told the media one thing, but if he said "Pagano I promise you you and your staff will be back next year." You don't pull out of something like that. 

[Colts1324]

5 minutes ago, Tsarquise said:

He did it to Caldwell.

He never said Caldwell was safe did he?  

[richard pallo]

3 hours ago, Majin Vegeta said:

I think Pagano stays this year. 

And he could stay for many years.  If he's successful there is no way he is being fired.  Jim won't let it happen just for the sake of change.  If Chuck is not a deal breaker than this has the makings of a long term partnership.  If the rumors are true, and we really don't know, his best chance of getting Taub is right now.  Taub could find himself with another team next year.   

[Coltsman1788]

Just now, Colts1324 said:

That's true. But Irsay is too good of a guy for that IMO. Irsay may have told him that it's a possibility and told the media one thing, but if he said "Pagano I promise you you and your staff will be back next year." You don't pull out of something like that. 

Irsay is a business man above all.  Don't get it twisted.  Also we don't know that he promised Pagano anything.  He just told the media that Chuck is our coach in 2017 and the new GM will evaluate everything going forward.  Think about it...it's 2017 and Pagano is the coach right at this moment...so Irsay has already kept his word to him for all intents and purposes.  He could have fired Pagano along with Grigson but he didn't.  If the new GM comes in and decides to fire the head coach it won't be the first time we would have seen that happen in Indianapolis.

[Colts1324]

Just now, Coltsman1788 said:

Irsay is a business man above all.  Don't get it twisted.  Also we don't know that he promised Pagano anything.  He just told the media that Chuck is our coach in 2017 and the new GM will evaluate everything going forward.  Think about it...it's 2017 and Pagano is the coach right at this moment...so Irsay has already kept his word to him for all intents and purposes.  He could have fired Pagano along with Grigson but he didn't.  If the new GM comes in and decides to fire the head coach it won't be the first time we would have seen that happen in Indianapolis.

Yeah. I mean everyone that has read my comments knows I don't care for Pagano as a coach, I just don't see it happening. If it does, I'll be as happy as anybody! 

[Tsarquise]

10 minutes ago, Colts1324 said:

He never said Caldwell was safe did he?  

He told Caldwell he was going to be the coach, if my memory serves me correct. 

 

But, it doesn't really matter; the situation is fluid, and no one should put any stock in to Irsay's words. He said there would be no changes made just weeks before the offseason, yet Ryan Grigson is gone. 

 

Based off body language and Irsay demeanor, I intuitevely read Irsay's as not really being sure who the coach was going to be for the 2017. I feel he is going to leave it up to the GM. There is no point in firing him; I feel he wants to keep all options open, because maybe the GM might like Pagano.

[Colts1324]

Just now, Tsarquise said:

He told Caldwell he was going to be the coach, if my memory serves me correct. 

 

But, it doesn't really matter; the situation is fluid, and no one should put any stock in to Irsay words. He said there would be no changes made just weeks before the offseason, yet Ryan Grigson is gone. 

 

Based off body language and Irsay demeanor, I intuitevely read Irsay as not really being sure who the coach was going to be for the 2017. I feel he is going to leave it up to the GM. There is no point in firing him; I feel he wants to keep all options open. 

Yeah I sure hope you're right. I do remember him saying Caldwell would be back before he season was over, but didn't guarantee it to the whole media world as he did Pagano. But yeah, with Irsay, you never know what he is thinking. 

[Coltsman1788]

5 minutes ago, Colts1324 said:

He never said Caldwell was safe did he?  

Irsay never said Pagano was safe either.  He talked around it as owners typically do and most fans & media interpreted what he said to mean Pagano was safe for a year.  The words "Pagano is totally safe for next season" never came out of his mouth. 

[Tsarquise]

2 minutes ago, Colts1324 said:

Yeah I sure hope you're right. I do remember him saying Caldwell would be back before he season was over, but didn't guarantee it to the whole media world as he did Pagano. But yeah, with Irsay, you never know what he is thinking. 

Yeah, I'm not acting like I know. I just feel like that it is what's going going on, and, like you, I hope that's what is happening. 

[oldunclemark]

3 hours ago, masterlock said:

There have been several reports that Chris Ballard prefers Dave Taub as head coach.

 

  reportedly.......from inside sources

[Coltsman1788]

Now there is this...

 

http://larrybrownsports.com/football/chuck-pagano-staying-with-colts-regardless-of-gm/347848

 

Looks like I was wrong.  lol  

[loudnproudcolt]

I have read a lot of articles who sing Toub's praises, so him being the coach would be fine. The one thing I would think everyone would consider about whether Pagano stays for one year or not is Luck. Surgery, missing the offseason, and then coming back to a completely different coach and system. It would be pretty hard to hit the ground running when the season started, so you would be handicapping Toub as well. I agree that Pagano should be gone, but this is a unique situation due to Andrew. Yes he picks up offenses fast, but this would be his third in five years. That is a lot for anyone.Toub will be there next year, and Pagano would really need to do a lot to keep the job.

[SaturdayAllDay]

1 minute ago, loudnproudcolt said:

I have read a lot of articles who sing Toub's praises, so him being the coach would be fine. The one thing I would think everyone would consider about whether Pagano stays for one year or not is Luck. Surgery, missing the offseason, and then coming back to a completely different coach and system. It would be pretty hard to hit the ground running when the season started, so you would be handicapping Toub as well. I agree that Pagano should be gone, but this is a unique situation due to Andrew. Yes he picks up offenses fast, but this would be his third in five years. That is a lot for anyone.Toub will be there next year, and Pagano would really need to do a lot to keep the job.

Not to mention at this point there arent a lot of good coordinators and position coaches looking for jobs. If we get a first time coach with no real experience with offensive or defensive game planning, we need to surround him talented coaches or he wont succeed.  If we want toub, then lets give him a proper staff and a solid offseason with luck, otherwise we will all be calling for his head by this time next yr. 

[chad72]

There is probably more money involved in letting Pagano and all the coaches go than just letting Grigson go. It may not matter in the large scheme of things but if Irsay were to untie Pagano at the hip from Grigson, it is only logical that he wanted to see how he would fare with another GM.

 

I do think it will be a "Show me" type of 1 year situation for Pagano and it gives the new GM to chance to evaluate the current coaches without drastic changes. Since the Colts' style of D has been geared more towards the hybrid, drafting players that play well in the hybrid would mean they could get players that would work fine even if there is an HC change after year 1. It would also help the new GM evaluate if the OC and QB coaches can be retained while letting the others go after year 1 as well. If Pagano and his coaches keep making the same mistakes again, it will definitely be a death knell the next time around but for 2017, I do think Pagano and his coaches stay, whether we like it or not. Just my two cents.

[Andrew Luck fan club]

2 hours ago, colts8718 said:

?

[Defjamz26]

39 minutes ago, SaturdayAllDay said:

Not to mention at this point there arent a lot of good coordinators and position coaches looking for jobs. If we get a first time coach with no real experience with offensive or defensive game planning, we need to surround him talented coaches or he wont succeed.  If we want toub, then lets give him a proper staff and a solid offseason with luck, otherwise we will all be calling for his head by this time next yr. 

There might also be some intriguing options for coordinators next year. Todd Bowles will probably be out in NY and could be a DC. Greg Williams.

[dw49]

1 hour ago, Tsarquise said:

He told Caldwell he was going to be the coach, if my memory serves me correct. 

 

But, it doesn't really matter; the situation is fluid, and no one should put any stock in to Irsay's words. He said there would be no changes made just weeks before the offseason, yet Ryan Grigson is gone. 

 

Based off body language and Irsay demeanor, I intuitevely read Irsay's as not really being sure who the coach was going to be for the 2017. I feel he is going to leave it up to the GM. There is no point in firing him; I feel he wants to keep all options open, because maybe the GM might like Pagano.

 

 

I really didn't remember what Irsay said at that time. So I researched it. By every account I can find online , he said something to the effect of "coach Caldwell is under evaluation and will be retained at least until a new general manager is found," There is nothing to be found that is similar to his recent statement saying " Chuck Pagano will coach the team in 2017."  There is nothing I find saying that Irsay went back on his "word " to retain Caldwell . You think that would have generated an article or two ? 

 

Not saying you and some others are wrong as I already stated that I don't remember what preluded Caldwell being fired. I do think if what you have is true , I would have remembered it. But in any event I didn't find anything to concur with what your claiming to be true.

[BR-549]

On a side note, how much evaluation needs to be done?  There are four years of film that displays decision making, play calling, clock management and .... how much do I need to add to this list?  It is a pretty fair assumption that most in the league already know CP's skill set and ability.  He has a low ceiling whether hoodwinked by Grigson or not.  No need for lengthy evaluation periods.  And as far as Luck learning a new system.... these guys are professionals and he is among one of the brightest within that category.  Timing is the only real concern in his regard, he is cerebral and should be able to pick up the X/O side of it quickly- in relative terms.  

Since we are all doing the "I think", well I think if the new GM wants change that it will happen.  Jim is not so naive as to allow another coin toss season. 

[Tsarquise]

15 minutes ago, dw49 said:

 

 

I really didn't remember what Irsay said at that time. So I researched it. By every account I can find online , he said something to the effect of "coach Caldwell is under evaluation and will be retained at least until a new general manager is found," There is nothing to be found that is similar to his recent statement saying " Chuck Pagano will coach the team in 2017."  There is nothing I find saying that Irsay went back on his "word " to retain Caldwell . You think that would have generated an article or two ? 

 

Not saying you and some others are wrong as I already stated that I don't remember what preluded Caldwell being fired. I do think if what you have is true , I would have remembered it. But in any event I didn't find anything to concur with what your claiming to be true.

This is what I remember from that time.

 

"Things were so clouded Monday that Caldwell even met with former Rams coach Steve Spagnuolo about possibly becoming the Colts' new defensive coordinator, and as late as Tuesday morning, the conventional wisdom was that Caldwell would stay."

 

Taken from this article.

http://www.cnsnews.com/news/article/colts-fire-coach-jim-caldwell-after-3-seasons

 

 

[chrisfarley]

1 hour ago, chad72 said:

There is probably more money involved in letting Pagano and all the coaches go than just letting Grigson go. It may not matter in the large scheme of things but if Irsay were to untie Pagano at the hip from Grigson, it is only logical that he wanted to see how he would fare with another GM.

 

I do think it will be a "Show me" type of 1 year situation for Pagano and it gives the new GM to chance to evaluate the current coaches without drastic changes. Since the Colts' style of D has been geared more towards the hybrid, drafting players that play well in the hybrid would mean they could get players that would work fine even if there is an HC change after year 1. It would also help the new GM evaluate if the OC and QB coaches can be retained while letting the others go after year 1 as well. If Pagano and his coaches keep making the same mistakes again, it will definitely be a death knell the next time around but for 2017, I do think Pagano and his coaches stay, whether we like it or not. Just my two cents.

I think you're right, they're all staying.(especially based on the latest purposeful leaks)  Depending on which GM we hire, it will be like forcing a coach onto a GM knowing his preference is different (unless it's Raye)... Chuck must be hearing all of these gory details unless he locked himself into a room with no access to anything.  Or is just laser focused with Raye right now on his job at hand.  Either way, here's where it would get tough down the road.  If let's say Ballard is brought on,  the season plays out and we win let's say 9 games 1st round wild-card blow-out and/or bow-out or no playoffs, and let's say Ballard still has eyes set on someone else based on his evaluation of Pagano, will Irsay pull the rip-cord on the GM making that call, and then decide he wants Pagano to stay?  I'm not saying he WILL power-play it but what if Irsay thinks the deck was stacked against Colts and Pagano mustered up an amazing winning season.....could be really sticky if they already aren't odd. And I know what Irsay said about the GM would make that decision for next year (at presser).  Therefore, I would think that the person that reported that "Raye is the fall-back option" may play-out , unless Ballard eases up on his Toub feelings during Monday's 2nd interview. 4 other candidates could be fall-back options as well.  Force feeding Pagano on a GM who wants his own coach seems toxic to me, but I understand about coaching staff, continuity, Luck's injury and all of that.  Ballard must be sky-high on Toub, and if so, Monday will be an interesting day. 

[aReggie7]

I still believe Pagano is likely to be back for 2017. With that said I will be surprised if he is the coach past this season.

 

Given the turnover rate of Head Coaches I think it's more important now to consider some non-traditional candidates when you are looking for a new Head Coach.

 

As far as Dave Taub goes I think he is a very interesting candidate. I know a lot will point out the lack of Special Teams Coordinators making the successful jump to Head Coach but how many have ever been given that opportunity? 

 

There are things to consider that make a Special Teams Coordinator interesting to consider. They are working with offensive and defensive players, usually working with the bottom part of the roster, have to deal with lots of turnover, etc. Taub has coached some really good special teams during his time with the Bears and now Chiefs.

 

If you are choosing a new Head Coach from a pool of coordinators I would find Taub's resume to be as intriguing as any. It's a little harder to judge his game planning and overall philosophies but teams have the resources to get a better idea of those areas.

[chad72]

1 minute ago, chrisfarley said:

I think you're right, they're all staying.  Depending on which GM we hire, it will be like forcing a coach onto a GM knowing his preference is different (unless it's Raye)... Chuck must be hearing all of these gory details unless he locked himself into a room with no access to anything.  Or is just laser focused with Raye right now on his job at hand.  Either way, here's where it would get tough down the road.  If let's say Ballard is brought on,  the season plays out and we win let's say 9 games 1st round wild-card blow-out and/or bow-out or no playoffs, and let's say Ballard still has eyes set on someone else based on his evaluation of Pagano, will Irsay pull the rip-cord on the GM making that call, and then decide he wants Pagano to stay?  I'm not saying he WILL power-play it but what if Irsay thinks the deck was stacked against Colts and Pagano mustered up an amazing winning season.....could be really sticky if they already aren't odd. And I know what Irsay said about the GM would make that decision for next year (at presser).  Therefore, I would think that the person that reported that "Raye is the fall-back option" may play-out , unless Ballard eases up on his Toub feelings during Monday's 2nd interview. 4 other candidates could be fall-back options as well.  Force feeding Pagano on a GM who wants his own coach seems toxic to me, but I understand about coaching staff, continuity, Luck's injury and all of that.  Ballard must be sky-high on Toub, and if so, Monday will be an interesting day. 

 

I don't think it is force feeding. Irsay would like the new GM to evaluate how well Pagano coaches with the new GM's players. If Pagano does well, the GM can still get the credit but if we fall short against the better teams like years before, the GM can still make his case against Pagano.

 

I am not a big fan of Pagano myself, if you have followed my history. However, if the new GM can strongly make a case against Pagano based on what he sees after thoroughly evaluating the previous seasons, then I am certain Irsay will listen to it. 

 

Irsay just wants to cross the bridge when it comes, I feel. Personally, it is his doing, tying both Grigson and Pagano at the hip and the "chicken" or "egg" saga that came out of that union, and he understands that. He just does not want to rush any decisions unless a playoff winning coach suddenly becomes available. Irsay is chasing known commodities to be able to sell it to the fan base and until one becomes available, Pagano is as good as the next available option to him.

[Colts1324]

1 hour ago, Tsarquise said:

Yeah, I'm not acting like I know. I just feel like that it is what's going going on, and, like you, I hope that's what is happening. 

Yeah I know nothing is set in stone. I was just stating my opinion on what Irsay and our new GM(likely Ballard) will do with pagano. 

[Mr. Irrelevant]

Would it be out of the question to bring Taub in as the Special Teams Coordinator for Colts? If Irsay tells Pagano that is what he wants, then it will happen. Maybe just a bizarro compromise, I'll admit that.

[jvan1973]

6 minutes ago, Mr Clueless said:

Would it be out of the question to bring Taub in as the Special Teams Coordinator for Colts? If Irsay tells Pagano that is what he wants, then it will happen. Maybe just a bizarro compromise, I'll admit that.

The chiefs went let that happen

[chrisfarley]

8 minutes ago, chad72 said:

 

I don't think it is force feeding. Irsay would like the new GM to evaluate how well Pagano coaches with the new GM's players. If Pagano does well, the GM can still get the credit but if we fall short against the better teams like years before, the GM can still make his case against Pagano.

 

I am not a big fan of Pagano myself, if you have followed my history. However, if the new GM can strongly make a case against Pagano based on what he sees after thoroughly evaluating the previous seasons, then I am certain Irsay will listen to it. 

 

Irsay just wants to cross the bridge when it comes, I feel. Personally, it is his doing, tying both Grigson and Pagano at the hip and the "chicken" or "egg" saga that came out of that union, and he understands that. He just does not want to rush any decisions unless a playoff winning coach suddenly becomes available. Irsay is chasing known commodities to be able to sell it to the fan base and until one becomes available, Pagano is as good as the next available option to him.

good point, "winning coach suddenly becomes available" , since right now that is not the case.  I would think any future post-Pagano coach would have to be the GM's guy or have a VERY good feel for him and have multiple philosophy discussions. I would love it to play out in the best interest for Luck, any way it is sliced up, if it's taking advantage of a unique talent like Luck, then we haven't wasting another peak year of his. That's what some of this boils down to for me and all of us...... getting luck and a well organized and coached team to the Super Bowl.

[deedub75]

If Toub is who Ballard believes in then tie the to the hip from the beginning.  

[dw49]

33 minutes ago, Tsarquise said:

This is what I remember from that time.

 

"Things were so clouded Monday that Caldwell even met with former Rams coach Steve Spagnuolo about possibly becoming the Colts' new defensive coordinator, and as late as Tuesday morning, the conventional wisdom was that Caldwell would stay."

 

Taken from this article.

http://www.cnsnews.com/news/article/colts-fire-coach-jim-caldwell-after-3-seasons

 

 

 

 

Cool article. But what is your point with the quote about him maybe being the Ram's new defensive coordinator ? Wouldn't that mean Caldwell thought he had a good chance of not being retained ? Are you saying you kind of had it wrong in your memory of 2012 ? That article says nothing more than things were "clouded" or up in the air ? That's how I read it anyway. Some writer saying the "conventional wisdom " was that he would stay is nothing like Irsay publicly stating the coach would be back the following year

[Tsarquise]

1 hour ago, dw49 said:

 

 

Cool article. But what is your point with the quote about him maybe being the Ram's new defensive coordinator ? Wouldn't that mean Caldwell thought he had a good chance of not being retained ? Are you saying you kind of had it wrong in your memory of 2012 ? That article says nothing more than things were "clouded" or up in the air ? That's how I read it anyway. Some writer saying the "conventional wisdom " was that he would stay is nothing like Irsay publicly stating the coach would be back the following year

 

 

But I think circumstances were a bit different. I don't remember the media constantly asking the fate of Jim Caldwell, because the GM and the coach weren't tied at the hip; maybe then Irsay would have explicitly stated that Caldwell would be retained, because at that moment, that was the plan, but things change. I remember reading that Caldwell was told he would be retained, as was evidence by him searching for a Defensive coordinator. If Caldwell was interviewing defensive coordinators, I don't think the plan at the time was for him to be fired, but Grigson decided to boot Caldwell; the same could happen here. 

 

I could be wrong about what happened with Caldwell. Maybe he wasn't told anything.

 

What does it matter what Irsay said in that moment?

 

The situation is fluid. At the time, he hadn't interviewed all of these GM candidates and when he hires a candidate, it's possible that Pagano is gone. Things change and that's the way it is. 

 

A lot of people on here were adamant that there would be no changes because Irsay said just that, weeks earlier, well there was. 

 

I don't know what's going to happen, but I wouldn't be shocked if Pagano was fired and I don't care what Irsay said a the press conference; they are just words. 

[Matabix]

Grigson and Pagano didn't along most likely over personel decisions. If Ballard and Pagano can agree on personel and Pagano gets what he wants, problem solved if we win. Pagano is in for 2017. Let's do Pagano fired posts next year if we don't see alot of improvement.

[John Waylon]

Well, we're about to find out.

I don't expect it. I think Irsay told all the candidates from the outset that pagano comes with the job, at least for right now, so anyone interviewing knew that they wouldn't have the freedom to bring in their own guy.

We'll see, but I don't expect it.

*

[Surge89]

7 hours ago, mahagga73 said:

 

I just dont see how keeping him around is going to make any progress. He's been here for years, everyone knows what he does, how he does it, his strengths, shortcomings, etc.. Time to change instead of hoping for a miracle . Also, when the coach isn't of the GM choosing it's set up to fail period. I just dont get why Irsay is so set on Pagano . Chuck could probably use a reset elsewhere also. Also, what if Ballard expectations of Pagano are different than Irsay . 

 

Because get this...  There is a chance you get a worse HC then you have now...  Everyone thinks that it will be automatic upgrade but honestly Pagano has decent results to back him up over a bunch of unproven or failed names.  

 

Just a thought.

[mahagga73]

27 minutes ago, Surge89 said:

 

Because get this...  There is a chance you get a worse HC then you have now...  Everyone thinks that it will be automatic upgrade but honestly Pagano has decent results to back him up over a bunch of unproven or failed names.  

 

Just a thought.

True enough. They got who they wanted anyway. 

[chrisfarley]

33 minutes ago, Surge89 said:

 

Because get this...  There is a chance you get a worse HC then you have now...  Everyone thinks that it will be automatic upgrade but honestly Pagano has decent results to back him up over a bunch of unproven or failed names.  

 

Just a thought.

I'm not sure we're done seeing changes this winter, maybe we are .... but......

[chad72]

I am certain the question about Pagano will be asked tomorrow, again. If the answer tomorrow is "we will evaluate everything and then make a decision" from the horse's mouth (Irsay), then he is CLEARLY leaving the door open.

 

If he wants to shut it, he will flat out come and repeat "Pagano is the coach in 2017 and we both talked about it and Chris met with Chuck as well", something like that alluded to. Repeat is the key word, which meant the answer will be given with the new GM hire in place.

[King Colt]

What if the Colts current OL stay in tact and Luck does not see pressure all of 2017  and they win 75% of their games what does the new GM say to that?

[dw49]

4 hours ago, Tsarquise said:

 

 

But I think circumstances were a bit different. I don't remember the media constantly asking the fate of Jim Caldwell, because the GM and the coach weren't tied at the hip; maybe then Irsay would have explicitly stated that Caldwell would be retained, because at that moment, that was the plan, but things change. I remember reading that Caldwell was told he would be retained, as was evidence by him searching for a Defensive coordinator. If Caldwell was interviewing defensive coordinators, I don't think the plan at the time was for him to be fired, but Grigson decided to boot Caldwell; the same could happen here. 

 

I could be wrong about what happened with Caldwell. Maybe he wasn't told anything.

 

What does it matter what Irsay said in that moment?

 

The situation is fluid. At the time, he hadn't interviewed all of these GM candidates and when he hires a candidate, it's possible that Pagano is gone. Things change and that's the way it is. 

 

A lot of people on here were adamant that there would be no changes because Irsay said just that, weeks earlier, well there was. 

 

I don't know what's going to happen, but I wouldn't be shocked if Pagano was fired and I don't care what Irsay said a the press conference; they are just words. 

 

 

The only reason it "matters" is we are trying to speculate if Pagano would be retained. Some are saying we believe he probably will as Irsay said he would be the coach in 2017. Others are saying he said the same thing in 2012 with Caldwell. Point is he didn't say that in 2012 as some are claiming. No big deal 

[Tsarquise]

52 minutes ago, dw49 said:

 

 

The only reason it "matters" is we are trying to speculate if Pagano would be retained. Some are saying we believe he probably will as Irsay said he would be the coach in 2017. Others are saying he said the same thing in 2012 with Caldwell. Point is he didn't say that in 2012 as some are claiming. No big deal 

Yeah, no big deal.

 

After I saw Paganos statemnt about Ballard being hired, I think he actually will be retained.