National media NOT feeling the retainment of Chuck

[bluephantom87]

Watched some sport shows over the weekend (including Mike and Mike) this morning and MANY feel that Chuck is equally responsible for the Colts downward spiral with their PLAY on the field. Others say the Colts are a mess right now BUT per Adam Schefter gms are lining up and inquiring because having a franchise qb in Luck makes it a desirable job. The only PROBLEM is that whoever gets the job has to be TIED to Chuck instead of being able to PICK their own guy which could lead to ANOTHER messy situation between coach and gm UNLESS there's someone already in house which could lead to the same ol same ol. Think about it the new gm as stated on Mike and Mike will have to worry about how much of Irsay's ear does Chuck have? You will INHERIT a defensive hc whose DEFENSE continues to look ANYTHING the part SCHEME or play wise while lacking the BASIC fundamentals such as tackling and being generally inept for long stretches of most games. That falls on COACHING. Did anyone NOTICE that the Pats doubled Brown early and continued to do so for most of the game making him a NON factor? Hint hint to OUR defensive staff next time we play the Steelers. 

 

The last thing that was pointed out about Chuck was how sporadic the offense has looked under his watch no matter WHO the oc was. Confusion seems to be whether they want to be a power running or bombs away type of team. Hurry up seems to come late ONLY when down big. There's no type of a quick or short passing game one in which Luck EXCELLED at in college. Is that coming from Chuck with his OVERALL gameplan? I do remember Chuck being asked earlier this year about the USE of the no huddle as change of pace more often considering Luck's success rate when using it and Chuck responded by saying that's not something they like to do because it gets them away from their base set. I was ok with Grigs being released simply because I thought Chuck would follow either by Irsay's hands or the new GM but I'm afraid it will be more of the same in 2017 better talent or not.   

[Mr. Irrelevant]

They are overthinking it. Pagano is gone next year. Most new GM's could live with that.

[BProland85]

I'm not fully buying that Pagano is for sure the coach for 2017. Usually the new GM has the responsibility of finding their own coach unless they feel the one in house is the coach they want.

 

Irsay would be unwise to limit the amount of candidates interested in the job by not allowing them that option of evaluating the coach they want for 2017.

[P-Money]

Caldwell was in the same boat.  He's gone more than likely

 

[buccolts]

I don't take much, if any, stock in opinion shows. It's entertainment, not news, and they don't know enough about any given team to know what's really going on. AND things can change, as we all were recently reminded.

 

I'll try to listen to JMV this afternoon. Last night he mentioned that he'd have more details on what's been going on the past couple weeks, and what we may expect the next couple weeks.

[life long]

This forum has too many who are okay with bringing chuck back. I for one would not be and hope he is fired soon. It would seem the media nationally would agree with those like me. Yet I am sure several longtime posters will try to convince others that chuck deserves credit for lucks greatness. Grigson had done this long enough *unwarranted arrogance*, as has pagano*from his supporters*. Time for a real gm to pick a real HC, without irsay handcuffing the teams future....

[YourNextGM]

27 minutes ago, Mr Clueless said:

They are overthinking it. Pagano is gone next year. Most new GM's could live with that.

So you're just going to throw away another yr of Luck's career? Eventually those yrs will add up. 

[buccolts]

7 minutes ago, life long said:

This forum has too many who are okay with bringing chuck back. I for one would not be and hope he is fired soon. It would seem the media nationally would agree with those like me. Yet I am sure several longtime posters will try to convince others that chuck deserves credit for lucks greatness. Grigson had done this long enough *unwarranted arrogance*, as has pagano*from his supporters*. Time for a real gm to pick a real HC, without irsay handcuffing the teams future....

 

1. There is no quota.

2. I'm fine with your opinion, but the reasoning and assumptions are not great.

[aReggie7]

If Pagano is kept I think it is only because Irsay couldn't land someone he wanted. It's not that Irsay views Pagano has the coach past 2017. It isn't ideal to keep him but I think you ultimately want to hire the right coach. You don't want to be forced to settle on a new hire.

 

Also, if you hire a new GM and then a new head coach why decide to do that in the last 10 days of January and not the first 10 days? There is still a lot that is unknown. This might not be as simple as replacing Grigson with someone and moving forward. I don't prefer the way this whole thing has went down but in the end I trust that Irsay will get it right. 

[Valpo2004]

1 hour ago, BProland85 said:

I'm not fully buying that Pagano is for sure the coach for 2017. Usually the new GM has the responsibility of finding their own coach unless they feel the one in house is the coach they want.

 

Irsay would be unwise to limit the amount of candidates interested in the job by not allowing them that option of evaluating the coach they want for 2017.

 

I'm not buying it either.

 

On top of that I'm not buying that Pagano's job is actually safe even if he is the coach going into 2017.  If he doesn't get the team back to the playoffs next year he'll likely get canned too.

 

Honestly I think this firing was more or less Irsay just realizing and acknowleging that Grigson was a cancer in the organization because he rubbed everyone the wrong way.  

 

It's more an acknowlegement that the problem in the Grigson/Pagano conflict was mostly Grigson.  The coaches didn't like him, the players don't like him, his subordinates don't like him.  

[csmopar]

43 minutes ago, BProland85 said:

I'm not fully buying that Pagano is for sure the coach for 2017. Usually the new GM has the responsibility of finding their own coach unless they feel the one in house is the coach they want.

 

Irsay would be unwise to limit the amount of candidates interested in the job by not allowing them that option of evaluating the coach they want for 2017.

I've been screaming the same thing for 2 days.  I do not believe Pagano is back until FA starts and he is still here.

[Derakynn]

It's basically a free year for the GM. If it bombs out, the blame will be put on Pagano and he will be canned. Irsay has shown that he has a lot of patience. It won't be that big of a problem. 

[JColts72]

11 minutes ago, Valpo2004 said:

 

I'm not buying it either.

 

On top of that I'm not buying that Pagano's job is actually safe even if he is the coach going into 2017.  If he doesn't get the team back to the playoffs next year he'll likely get canned too.

 

Honestly I think this firing was more or less Irsay just realizing and acknowleging that Grigson was a cancer in the organization because he rubbed everyone the wrong way.  

 

It's more an acknowlegement that the problem in the Grigson/Pagano conflict was mostly Grigson.  The coaches didn't like him, the players don't like him, his subordinates don't like him.  

True nobody liked Ryan, but the players still have to play and coaches to coach.

[Mr. Irrelevant]

24 minutes ago, YourNextGM said:

So you're just going to throw away another yr of Luck's career? Eventually those yrs will add up. 

I'm not Irsay, so I don't know how you could get the idea that I'm responsible for keeping Pagano?

 

For the record, I want to move on from Pagano now, but the point is that it will hardly scare a potential GM away that Irsay tell him that he would prefer to keep Pagano for a year the keep the turmoil down. 

[Valpo2004]

45 minutes ago, JColts72 said:

True nobody liked Ryan, but the players still have to play and coaches to coach.

 

Oh yeah, this isn't the cure to all of our problems in the least.  But it's a start I think.  

[Coltsfanforlife12]

Chuck won't be the  coach in 2017.  Irsay couldn't fire both of them the week before the senior bowl because teams send coach and GMs to this event.  Not having either would put us further behind the eight ball.  Whomever is the new GM will bring in his own guy.  Jimmy Raye will likely either get the GM job or he'll be kept on in some capacity.  If you read between the lines of what Irsay said it was not an endorsement for Chuck.  Yes, he said "Chuck is our coach in 2017" but, he also said "the new GM will evaluate the entire program and make changes where needed."

[Andrew Luck fan club]

I don't think Irsay would say "Chuck is the coach for 2017" then fire him a week later. 

[bababooey]

I think the new GM can live with one year of Pagano while buying his own groceries.

[Timo1]

I watched Mike and Mike today as well. Greenberg was comparing the Colts situation to the jets 2 years ago when rex Ryan was there. The Colts are allot different. The Colts have a franchise qb and off to go with him. Chuck is a better head coach then rex Ryan is in my opinion. If Chuck and gris had been on the same page the last 4yrs I believe the def would've been built and in the top 10 in the league.

[BProland85]

5 minutes ago, Majin Vegeta said:

I don't think Irsay would say "Chuck is the coach for 2017" then fire him a week later. 

 

It won't be Irsay who fires Pagano once the new GM is brought in. So yes, Irsay said Pagano is here for 2017, but that can always change if the new GM wants his own guy. Irsay has lied before to media by saying they never pursued Gruden or Manning for a role.

[Andrew Luck fan club]

2 minutes ago, BProland85 said:

 

It won't be Irsay who fires Pagano once the new GM is brought in. So yes, Irsay said Pagano is here for 2017, but that can always change if the new GM wants his own guy. Irsay has lied before to media by saying they never pursued Gruden or Manning for a role.

Yeah you're right it's a possibility, I just don't see that happening. Honestly I'd like it to happen. 

[Coltsfanforlife12]

9 minutes ago, Majin Vegeta said:

I don't think Irsay would say "Chuck is the coach for 2017" then fire him a week later. 

What makes you think that?? He's changed his mind at every turn this season.  If the new GM wants someone new he's going to get what he wants.  Irsay isn't going to lose his guy over a guy who clearly sucks at his job.

[aaron11]

4 minutes ago, BProland85 said:

 

It won't be Irsay who fires Pagano once the new GM is brought in. So yes, Irsay said Pagano is here for 2017, but that can always change if the new GM wants his own guy. Irsay has lied before to media by saying they never pursued Gruden or Manning for a role.

we dont know that he pursued gruden, all we know is that they talked for a while

 

it could have been consulting about grisgon and the future of the team

[Andrew Luck fan club]

4 minutes ago, Coltsfanforlife12 said:

What makes you think that?? He's changed his mind at every turn this season.  If the new GM wants someone new he's going to get what he wants.  Irsay isn't going to lose his guy over a guy who clearly sucks at his job.

Superman said something in another thread that I thought was a great point. Irsay could have said he "hopes Pagano is the coach next season." Or something along those lines.  But he didn't, he said "Chuck will be the coach". 

So just my opinion. I could very well be wrong. 

[bababooey]

Assuming we get no college head coaches, the only person that makes sense for HC that is a current coordinator and still in season is McDaniels. IMO he's the only guy other than Chuck that will potentially coach us in 2017.

[Andrew Luck fan club]

7 minutes ago, bababooey said:

Assuming we get no college head coaches, the only person that makes sense for HC that is a current coordinator and still in season is McDaniels. IMO he's the only guy other than Chuck that will potentially coach us in 2017.

The Nebraska OC could be a dark horse. 

[Fisticuffs111]

I just don't get the "Pagano's gone next year anyways" talk.

 

If that really is the case, then why not just promote Chud, who could get axed along with Pagano next year anyways especially if we bring in an offensive minded HC, and see how he does without Chuck's scheme hanging over him?

This season will be so awkward if it's just a waiting game until Chuck is fired. And not just for us but for the players as well.

[Restored]

It doesn't make a lot of sense to let Pagano go this coming year at this point. For one, his entire staff was just replaced this past year. It would be wise to give them another season to fully implement their systems. Addtionally, Andrew will be out for some time and it doesn't make sense to force him to learn a new offensive system if he can't be there.

 

If the new GM wants his own guy, one more year with Pagano and his staff won't be a huge deal.

[TDewar1987]

Telling everyone he is keeping Pagano for 2017 is a way to have a fallback. We have a temp replacement for Grigson if we cant find a new gm soon. Who replaces pagano if we fired him and couldnt get a replacement? Chud? Philbin? 

[Mr. Irrelevant]

4 minutes ago, Restored said:

It doesn't make a lot of sense to let Pagano go this coming year at this point. For one, his entire staff was just replaced this past year. It would be wise to give them another season to fully implement their systems. Addtionally, Andrew will be out for some time and it doesn't make sense to force him to learn a new offensive system if he can't be there.

 

If the new GM wants his own guy, one more year with Pagano and his staff won't be a huge deal.

Exactly this. Simple as that.

[Pelt]

53 minutes ago, Derakynn said:

It's basically a free year for the GM. If it bombs out, the blame will be put on Pagano and he will be canned. Irsay has shown that he has a lot of patience. It won't be that big of a problem. 

I can agree with this.

 

I'm also of the opinion that Pagano's fate may not necessarily be decided yet until he's actually talked to and picked another GM. I think Pagano's future is still on the table when speaking with the new GM.

 

I think Irsay can be talked into another direction for the franchise.

 

And I hope that is the case right now.

 

Luck is in that stage of his career that we should be talking about potential Super Bowl appearances, season after season. Now we're talking about just getting back into winning a lackluster division.

 

It's not like Luck is going to be around another 20 years and we can just have 'throw away' seasons like riding out Pagano in 2017.

 

If Irsay is really at that stage, my opinion is just to bite the bullet now and make the change and start to get this ship righted going into the 2017 season and not have the anvil hanging over Chucks head all season long, while simultaneously wasting another year of Luck's prime.

[lollygagger8]

New GM, new coach. 

[chrisfarley]

I don't think Irsay is done with his research.  The more he digs into it and the more players he eventually talks to, the more it's going to be clear that Chuck needs to go.  Yes I know, there is a love-fest and respect for Chuck among his players, but with Grigs gone, players may open up pro and con of chuck... more pro, but if everything is on the table.. and were still left with a middle of the road coach (or bad coach).... water will find it's level

[Fisticuffs111]

2 minutes ago, Pelt said:

It's not like Luck is going to be around another 20 years and we can just have 'throw away' seasons like riding out Pagano in 2017.

 

If Irsay is really at that stage, my opinion is just to bite the bullet now and make the change and start to get this ship righted going into the 2017 season and not have the anvil hanging over Chucks head all season long, while simultaneously wasting another year of Luck's prime.

Yup, totally agree with this.

For me it's also that we've already missed out on guys like Adam Gase last season. Probably going to miss out on a promising guy in Shanahan. I don't see much to gain in waiting for that "perfect HC candidate" that doesn't really exist. Especially Irsay's perfect candidate which seems to be a guy like Gruden, who isn't some sure thing either.

[Horse Shoe Heaven]

2 hours ago, bluephantom87 said:

Watched some sport shows over the weekend (including Mike and Mike) this morning and MANY feel that Chuck is equally responsible for the Colts downward spiral with their PLAY on the field. Others say the Colts are a mess right now BUT per Adam Schefter gms are lining up and inquiring because having a franchise qb in Luck makes it a desirable job. The only PROBLEM is that whoever gets the job has to be TIED to Chuck instead of being able to PICK their own guy which could lead to ANOTHER messy situation between coach and gm UNLESS there's someone already in house which could lead to the same ol same ol. Think about it the new gm as stated on Mike and Mike will have to worry about how much of Irsay's ear does Chuck have? You will INHERIT a defensive hc whose DEFENSE continues to look ANYTHING the part SCHEME or play wise while lacking the BASIC fundamentals such as tackling and being generally inept for long stretches of most games. That falls on COACHING. Did anyone NOTICE that the Pats doubled Brown early and continued to do so for most of the game making him a NON factor? Hint hint to OUR defensive staff next time we play the Steelers. 

 

The last thing that was pointed out about Chuck was how sporadic the offense has looked under his watch no matter WHO the oc was. Confusion seems to be whether they want to be a power running or bombs away type of team. Hurry up seems to come late ONLY when down big. There's no type of a quick or short passing game one in which Luck EXCELLED at in college. Is that coming from Chuck with his OVERALL gameplan? I do remember Chuck being asked earlier this year about the USE of the no huddle as change of pace more often considering Luck's success rate when using it and Chuck responded by saying that's not something they like to do because it gets them away from their base set. I was ok with Grigs being released simply because I thought Chuck would follow either by Irsay's hands or the new GM but I'm afraid it will be more of the same in 2017 better talent or not.   

Dude REALLY these guys bash Chuck & thats ALL THE MEDIA!!! Honestly i am tired of the Pagono bashing. we are going to be good next year WITH PAGANO as our coach PERIOD!!!! 

[Corndog]

56 minutes ago, Majin Vegeta said:

I don't think Irsay would say "Chuck is the coach for 2017" then fire him a week later.

Irsay won't fire him, the new GM would and it will be more than a week later.  They haven't even hired the new GM yet.

[Restored]

1 minute ago, Corndog said:

Irsay won't fire him, the new GM would and it will be more than a week later.  They haven't even hired the new GM yet.

 

Right. Because the new GM is going to overrule his boss. I'm sure that'll work out great.

[indyagent17]

It comes down to the list of possible replacements. Perhaps no one wanted to work under Grigson or Irsay for that matter.  If the GM is Raye then Pagano has a good chance of staying but someone else comes in keeping Pagano may be a deal breaker 

[Fisticuffs111]

3 minutes ago, Restored said:

 

Right. Because the new GM is going to overrule his boss. I'm sure that'll work out great.

I think if there's one thing we've learned it's that we shouldn't believe everything Irsay says.

With that said, I also think he's going to keep Chuck, and promote Raye III.

[Restored]

Just now, Fisticuffs111 said:

I think if there's one thing we've learned it's that we can take whatever Jim says with a grain of salt.

With that said, I also think he's going to keep Chuck, and promote Raye III.

 

Usually I would agree but Irsay seemed fairly adamant about Chuck staying on for 2017. Now it could indeed change but it looks like Chuck is on for one more year regardless of who the next GM is.