Manning, Irsay & Kravitz Saga (Mega Merge)

[buccolts]

This type of stuff is bad, very bad. Picking "sides" between an owner of an NFL franchise (through which hundredes of players will pass...hopefully for the sake of him/her owner) and a legendary player is a lose-lose situation...ESPECIALLY for fans of the team they are BOTH currently a part of.

The thing with professional sports, in any game, in any league, is that it is a business. Pro athletes (if they're good/lucky enough) come and go. But the business (the TEAM) goes on, with new players, coaches, GMs, etc. Think Yankees, 49ers, Chicago Bulls w/Jordan, etc.

A player with a good head on his shoulders knows the "window" he has. He plays, works, plans in accordance with the knowledge that one day, sooner rather than later he'll be DONE as a pro. Then he has to go about the rest of his life. But, the TEAM still goes on and will go on until the OWNER himself/herself decides not to, or decides to sell, or just simply edit up royally.

COLTS FANS, I beg you, as a fellow fan... please don't take part in ANY of this junk. It does NO GOOD. I LOVE Peyton Manning and I always will...for what he did for my team...which was BAD save for the year that Harbaugh got us to the AFC game. But his time here is done. Accept it and move forward with your TEAM.

The title is misleading.

It's now about Irsay/Manning, and everyone else vs. Kravitz.

[FireJimCaldwell]

salary cap wise, it most certainly can happen. Luck's salary cap # for next year wont be much different than Collins + Painter + Orlovski's this past season

It can be done but it is far from optimal. But, it is a two part problem. Cash money, and cap money paired with other areas of the team that also need to be addressed.

Far from optimal or a good situation.

[funktacious2]

It wasn't so long ago that Manning accused Kravitz of being Andrew Luck's agent. Now, he grants him an exclusive interview and waxes poetic. It was carefully planned and articulated to make a point, like a politician. I think Irsay and Manning had an understanding about how everything was going to play out and for some reason Peyton decided to do this. It puts a bad spin on Irsay.

Thank you! I just don't think that beloved fans want to accept that Peyton really does seem like he's being political. If you watch Kravitz recollection of his phone call/interview with Peyton, he says Peyton actually called him back after the initial interview to add some things and dicuss further. To me this looks like Peyton had a point to make, and I think he wouldn't have brought up his line in Kravitz interview about "Not wanting to get in a fan campaign with the owner" if he didn't understand this was exactly what his comments were going to do! Think about it, people, Peyton knew what he was saying, he wanted to hint he's feeling the pressure that he's being cut off from this new operation, and while he doesn't like that kind of media attention I feel it's his only way to get out that it's not seeming fair for him right now.

On a side note, I really hope this isn't how it ends or at least not nasty of course. I've always taken pride in feeling like our organization is one of the greatest and honest to it's fans and players, but it'll seem cheap if irsay continues to keep Manning out of the process and then outs him. There will certainly be some respect loss there from my end.

[jjcolts]

I am on Peyton's side. Doesn't make me less of a Colts fan; but at this point I am on Peyton's side. Irsay, grow up, be a professional and let Peyton go with a little bit of class. The guy was just speaking the truth...the place IS different now.

Peyton gave us a decade of great winning football. We can't just pretend that did not happen.

[jjcolts]

I'm so sick of hearing Irsay owes manning this and owes him that. PM didn't play for free guys believe it or not he was paid and paid verrrrry well.

Put yourself in Jim's shoes. If the doctors say in march hey he isn't 100% yet and he might not be by the season start. So now you have to decide to either cut him or gamble 28 million of your own money. IDC if he is rich that's a lot of money. Not to mention hes past his prime and this team isn't a real contender next year either way. So your in a rebuild mode anyways so do u pass on a great prospect in luck or pray pm gets healthy and doesn't regress. If it were me I would part ways with manning thank him for everything he has done and draft luck or rg3 whichever I thought was the best fit for the direction of the team.

Plenty of QB gets paid TONS of money (Mark Sanchez) - so yeah Irsay "owes Manning a lot" Manning is the reason that the Colts are even relevant today...we as fans owe Manning a lot; I for one would like an ammicable split, if that is the road they wish to take.

[presto123]

I think Peyton will be forced to retire so even if Irsay cuts Manning I think it will pan out that it was the right choice down the road. The reason I say this(no I'm not a doctor) is that even the neurosurgeon on this board said most of the muscle strength should return by 3 months. It's been almost twice that long hasn't it? If Manning was getting even close to 100% I'm sure he would be shouting from the roof tops that he will be back. Instead he has been very secretive and has given no indication on where his arm strength and accuracy are at the moment. Where are his doctors in all of this? They should be giving statements. Has somebody advised them not to talk? I just think right now all signs are pointing to the Colts releasing Manning and then him retiring sometime after that. Just hope both sides don't end up bitter in the process.

[FireJimCaldwell]

I think Peyton will be forced to retire so even if Irsay cuts Manning I think it will pan out that it was the right choice down the road. The reason I say this(no I'm not a doctor) is that even the neurosurgeon on this board said most of the muscle strength should return by 3 months. It's been almost twice that long hasn't it? If Manning was getting even close to 100% I'm sure he would be shouting from the roof tops that he will be back. Instead he has been very secretive and has given no indication on where his arm strength and accuracy are at the moment. Where are his doctors in all of this? They should be giving statements. Has somebody advised them not to talk? I just think right now all signs are pointing to the Colts releasing Manning and then him retiring sometime after that. Just hope both sides don't end up bitter in the process.

I've read the same things that he should be as about as good as he's going to get by Jan/Feb. So who knows.

His actual Doctors would have to be given specific permission to talk about it in public.

[coltsblue1844]

It can be done but it is far from optimal. But, it is a two part problem. Cash money, and cap money paired with other areas of the team that also need to be addressed.

Far from optimal or a good situation.

but we will have to have a back up, even if Luck is the starter...and if we release Manning, he will still count over $10million vs our cap, wont he?

[LightninMax]

If Peyton can't play football again, then everyone that wants an amicable end is most correct. If he can't play there really is nothing to work out.

But if he an play, people like Kravitz say he's not worth starting over with. Semantics like"starting over" aside. The facts are the Colts have a decent offensive line. Run blocking and pass blocking were good last season. The running game looked better than it has in several years. The defensive line and linebackers were strong. The secondary was young with rookies but was adequate by the end of the year. The receiving core needs the most help with a deep threat opposite Reggie.

So, now the experts are telling us that the Colts brain trust doesn't have the ability to put these pieces together with a proven QB and run at the super bowl. But other teams can? ESPN says Miami is a good choice because they played with heart and won a few games. Or the Redskins because they beat the Giants. I saw no team play with more heart than these Colts of last season. When the Jets were laying down and whining about not making the playoffs, the 1-13 Colts were whipping the Texans! I watched the defense beat Tennessee on its own.

Draft a new QB for the future if you want to, but this team with the coaching changes, FA, and a great draft can be competitive now. There are players that want to win now and would make their contracts fit so they could.

Then again, if I'm a true business owner and I've locked in my long term lease with every dime of revenue from anything around LOS coming into my pocket. I've satisfied the fans and city for a few years with a Super Bowl win and a Super bowl in the home town. The next few years would be a great time to really line my pockets. Hire a cheaper GM, a cheaper set of coaches and a bunch of cheaper players, then call it "rebuilding" or "starting over". Get a local mouthpiece to sell it to the public at least half of them anyway. That'll keep the seats filled for the next few years. Now that's the smart business like I saw my dad do. He'd certainly be proud of me.

I, truly hope that last scenario is nothing but fiction. I have seen it play out that way before though, and it made the Horseshoe a disgrace for two decades.

[FireJimCaldwell]

but we will have to have a back up, even if Luck is the starter...and if we release Manning, he will still count over $10million vs our cap, wont he?

Yes we will and yes he will. That back up will likely need to be a veteran that can help show Luck the ropes.

[Stoney18287]

I wish all the fans would make it known somehow that if they release Peyton, we're not gonna be going to the games. Its gonna tick me off when they let him go.

[ConBro]

I'm just wondering who gets us fans on the weekends.

[presto123]

I'm just wondering who gets us fans on the weekends.

Whoever buys me the most stuff!

[mmcrazylikeafox]

Yes pay 28mill just to prove someone wrong. Not

You are no Colts fan! You are on here just to aggravate and stir up Colts fans cause your team sucks apparently and ours is more interesting. You just wish manning would leave so your team could finally beat the Colts. NOT!!!

[Nancy]

Surely Irsay can talk to Peyton and work something out. Best case (Wish List) scenario is to have Peyton back...teach Andrew Luck (if we get him), when Peyton is ready to give up the reigns of the team...retire and join the Colt's organization on staff. We love Peyton..!!

[Coltssouth]

You are no Colts fan! You are on here just to aggravate and stir up Colts fans cause your team sucks apparently and ours is more interesting. You just wish manning would leave so your team could finally beat the Colts. NOT!!!

Would you care to explain this post? I don't understand. As far as I know Mp Nation is a Colts fan. I have seen nothing to idicate any different.

[Malakai432]

I think the Kravitz and the espn and nfl network media has added fuel to the fire about Manning leaving that fact of the matter is none of them know what is going to happen, i dont about everyone but i wish they would get off the conversation until some concrete decsion has been made about his future its all speculation on their part, ........

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[CS Colts Fan]

you can see the true character of a person by their actions NOT their words.. I do not like what the FO is doing with Peyton by not talking to him... this is wrong!!

Isray needs to Grow Up and be a Man and just sit down and talk with Peyton..

Grigson.. You need to be Human and give him 5-10 minutes of your precious time He deserves it.. how would you like it if the shoe was on your Foot!!

I hope that Pagano will show the other two how to man up and just sit and talk with him...

I am not impressed with Isray and Grigson by their actions or lack there of towards Peyton..

[presto123]

I was listening to Rob Dibble's national show tonight and this was all they were talking about. This so called squabble got more attention than Joe Paterno. With this and the whole Rob Lowe story the whole nation is watching the Colts drama unfold day to day. The Young And The Restless ratings are probably plummeting:)

[Warhorse]

Shouldn't the title of this thread be, "Fans upset with uncertainty about Peyton Manning"?

The rest is just exactly like that magazine that sits in the little holder as you wait in line at the grocery store for the checker to tally your grocery costs. You know the one....he said...she said...so and so cheated on so and so....someone's mad and getting a divorce. I swear, is this a football forum or a football tabloid? Lol.

[MSColtsFan]

I'd say Irsay's tweet tonight says a lot about not only what he thinks of Manning, but much more importantly his company, his brand, his life's work. The Colts will out live all of us, and there will be owners, players, coaches, and GMs, some great and some forgettable, who all will pass through the halls.

"Peyton and I love each other,that goes without saying..I humbly serve n protect the Horseshoe..it is bigger than any individual,including me"

https://twitter.com/#!/JimIrsay

[Warhorse]

I'm on the side of patience, sanity, and absence of drama. Not good for selling papers, though.

[Malakai432]

I'm on the side of patience, sanity, and absence of drama. Not good for selling papers, though.

Patience is a virtue, but before one is patient, their virtue must be patience.

[LightninMax]

Its better than paying 35+ million next year for a player who can't play.

Irsay is right.

peyton knew what he was saying and the ramifications. Peyton and Archie need to keep their mouths shut about certain things.

peyon is an EMPLOYEE. A WELL paid one at that . he needs to act like it.

The COLTS are bigger than manning. NOT the other way around.

Nobody is going to pay 35 mil to a player that isn't going to play. The mistake would be to not pay 35mil to Peyton Manning if he can play.

Neither Peyton nor Archie said anything inflammatory about the Colts or Irsay. Peyton has been being a good employee. He shows up every day and works hard. In many different people's perspective "the hardest working of all the players".

The team is always "bigger" or more important than the individual. Having been described as the ultimate team player, I'm sure PM would agree.

Just for the record, the Colts franchise was a laughing stock before PM. Irsay's struggled every year for 15 years to find gimmicks to sell tickets. Common joke of the day was the fan that put two tickets under his windshield wiper with a sign that said "2 Free Tickets" and came back in two hours to find two more tickets and the 2 changed to a 4. Colt's fans celebrated whenever they weren't blacked out from watching on TV and then wished they had. Actually, most fans referred to the Colts with a D in place of the C. You know the team that could take defeat out of the jaws of victory. Lord help our Colts was the battle cry! That all changed when Jim Irsay said he was stepping back and hiring professionals to run the team.

Seems like he's back to his old ways!

[funktacious2]

I think Peyton started this because he said he didn't want to get in a "fan campaign with the owner" he knew from that very interview what he was doing, but none of this matters. They worked it out and the rest is just the media trying to make something our of nothing

"Peyton and I love each other,that goes without saying..I humbly serve n protect the Horseshoe..it is bigger than any individual,including me" -Irsay via twitter some 30-some minutes ago.

[Warhorse]

Patience is a virtue, but before one is patient, their virtue must be patience.

Nitwit. Blubber. Oddment. Tweak!

[rocking horse]

just wish irsay would have told peyton his new vision first..and then at spags' and grigs press they would have said they hoped peyton would recover because they were looking forward to working with a probowl quaterback like peyton..then the fans and peyton would be ok with what is going on..but everyone avoiding the peyton questions leaves too much speculation and we are where we're at..a house divided..jmo

[JoKeR]

Kravitz said that he contacted Peyton to talk about Eli and they did but then ended up talking about the Colts mostly instead.

Ole bait n switch. They should cut him off.

[Malakai432]

Ole bait n switch. They should cut him off.

Ugh, that happens.

Kravitz: "So Peyton, hows it going. I just wanted to talk to you about Eli."

Peyton: "Ah really?"

Kravitz: "Yes really, I just wanted to see what you thought of your little brother in the big epic rematch."

Peyton: "Well, I think it's great. He's ......" Kravitz cuts Peyton off.

Kravitz: "But first I wanted to ask you how you and Irsay are getting along. What's in the future for Peyton."

Peyton: "................................"

[JTcardscolts]

I am an Indanapolis Colts fan first unlike a bunch here who are Peyton Manning fans first. I would much rather see the franchise be set up for success taking a very good prospect, one of the best to come along in some time, rather than put all the eggs in one basket. That basket being a 36 year old quarterback with 3 neck surgeries who EVEN post-op will have question marks as to how he will play. That is me. I am grateful for what Manning has done but tossing Manning outright in glee? Sure you can call it that. I call it moving forward. I am not going to grasp at straws, cross my fingers, or make up assumptions (which is all I hear). If my words have struck you the wrong way then that is fantastic.

Hahaha now this is funny, and highly hypocritical. So your a "don't put all your eggs in one basket" guy too. Huh? Kinda like we did with Peyton is entire career. So then surely you must be in favor of trading the 1st pick for multiple 1st round picks in multiple season. I mean after all you are a "don't put all your eggs in one basket guy" right?

I'm glad someone here agrees with me...

Thought I was alone;)

[CanuckColtsFan]

This is the exact opposite of what I have come to expect from the Colts. Everything is super dramatic, consistency is gone, next man up , and a lot of other things are different. I am truly wondering if the team I have grown to love will come out the other side of this.

[JoKeR]

If Peyton can't play football again, then everyone that wants an amicable end is most correct. If he can't play there really is nothing to work out.

But if he an play, people like Kravitz say he's not worth starting over with. Semantics like"starting over" aside. The facts are the Colts have a decent offensive line. Run blocking and pass blocking were good last season. The running game looked better than it has in several years. The defensive line and linebackers were strong. The secondary was young with rookies but was adequate by the end of the year. The receiving core needs the most help with a deep threat opposite Reggie.

So, now the experts are telling us that the Colts brain trust doesn't have the ability to put these pieces together with a proven QB and run at the super bowl. But other teams can? ESPN says Miami is a good choice because they played with heart and won a few games. Or the Redskins because they beat the Giants. I saw no team play with more heart than these Colts of last season. When the Jets were laying down and whining about not making the playoffs, the 1-13 Colts were whipping the Texans! I watched the defense beat Tennessee on its own.

Draft a new QB for the future if you want to, but this team with the coaching changes, FA, and a great draft can be competitive now. There are players that want to win now and would make their contracts fit so they could.

Then again, if I'm a true business owner and I've locked in my long term lease with every dime of revenue from anything around LOS coming into my pocket. I've satisfied the fans and city for a few years with a Super Bowl win and a Super bowl in the home town. The next few years would be a great time to really line my pockets. Hire a cheaper GM, a cheaper set of coaches and a bunch of cheaper players, then call it "rebuilding" or "starting over". Get a local mouthpiece to sell it to the public at least half of them anyway. That'll keep the seats filled for the next few years. Now that's the smart business like I saw my dad do. He'd certainly be proud of me.

I, truly hope that last scenario is nothing but fiction. I have seen it play out that way before though, and it made the Horseshoe a disgrace for two decades.

Owners are forced to pay a high minimum now according to the CBA. That's a pretty big plot hole in that story. But it does give the GM room to install a new team. Its possible but I think Pagano what's to try to utilize most of these FAs and Grigs is probably going to oblige.

I think 1 reason Pagano was hired is because he's very personable and Irsay wants a defensive schemer that could win over the vets that remain.

[JoKeR]

Ugh, that happens.

Kravitz: "So Peyton, hows it going. I just wanted to talk to you about Eli."

Peyton: "Ah really?"

Kravitz: "Yes really, I just wanted to see what you thought of your little brother in the big epic rematch."

Peyton: "Well, I think it's great. He's ......" Kravitz cuts Peyton off.

Kravitz: "But first I wanted to ask you how you and Irsay are getting along. What's in the future for Peyton."

Peyton: "................................"

Probably more true than all the speculation going on.

[HungarianColtsFan]

Here is Irsay's latest Tweet:

Jim Irsay @JimIrsay: Peyton and I love each other,that goes without saying..I humbly serve n protect the Horseshoe..it is bigger than any individual,including me

I think its never good, when owner and player keep sending words to eachother via media.

It would be better if they sat down to clear the situation. Media will sparkle fire, if smells sensation...

[mammo]

i guess it depends how you read into it, peyton was basically just describing his days and his feelings, thats it. Not like colts place is haunted or something, or some dungeon.

[HungarianColtsFan]

The house of family should be kept clean, and it depends on both party.

They need to talk to eachother urgently.

[HungarianColtsFan]

I'm neither on Irsay's nor on Manning's side.

This situation was misshandled by both parties.

Peyton should have been more careful when speking to media (Kravitz), and Irsay should have been less critic (more generous) toward Manning. Manning's words were interpreted to show a darker picture IMO, Kravitz keeps suggesting Peyton is done at Indy (I wonder why...)

It's too bad, that it happened this way.

[Ramblinwreck7]

Owners are forced to pay a high minimum now according to the CBA. That's a pretty big plot hole in that story. But it does give the GM room to install a new team. Its possible but I think Pagano what's to try to utilize most of these FAs and Grigs is probably going to oblige.

I think 1 reason Pagano was hired is because he's very personable and Irsay wants a defensive schemer that could win over the vets that remain.

If your going to draft Andrew Luck, why keep the veterans around? So we don't lose as badly over the next few years I'm guessing? That's not a very good way to win over veterans. No veteran on this team will like it if Peyton is forced out if he is still healthy. They will probably want to go to another team and leave the colts. They want to win, not watch some so called rookie who is the greatest thing "in decades" try to win a few games. They don't want to see one of their best friends in Manning get treated like that.

[everybodysgotone]

I thought that was the reason the got the tax money to build the stadium. That wasnt the stipulation before the stadium was it.

The deal wasn't only for tax money to fund it. In 2004, the Colts and the City of Indianapolis agreed to construct the new stadium for the team (and Indiana Convention Center). It's being financed with funds raised jointly by the State of Indiana and the City of Indianapolis, with the Indianapolis Colts providing 100M. Marion County has raised taxes for food and beverage sales, auto excise taxes, innkeeper's taxes and admission taxes for its share of the costs. Meanwhile, a small increase in food and beverage taxes in the six "doughnut' counties around Marion and the sale of Colts license plates completes the total.

Keep in mind the Colts don't own the stadium or the Indiana Convention Center, which will be there for years to come, and the State/City use the facilites more than the Colts do. Also keep in mind during the first ten years the stadium and convention center are open they'll gross 2.5B. The Colts pay $250,000 annual rent there to the Capital Improvement Board (CIB).

Here's a partial list of events:

• 
  

  The Capital Improvement Board gets $250,000 in annual rent from the Colts.

  
  

• 
  

  The Colts are required to play all home games in the new stadium until 2034.

  
  

• The Colts are forbidden from playing home games elsewhere or negotiating relocation.
  
• Expansion of the Indiana Convention Center
  
• Adds as many as 28 major conventions and trade shows
  
• Creates 2,700 additional jobs
  
• Produces as much as $165 million in new sales and economic activity per year
  
• New Multi-Purpose Stadium
  
• 40 year deal with the NCAA allowing for the hosting of the Men's and Women's Final Four, regional games, and 1st and 2nd round games
  
• Major collegiate athletic events such as the Circle City Classic and IHSAA state football championship games
  
• Makes Indianapolis eligible to bid for the chance to host a Super Bowl (potential economic impact of $286,000,000)
  
• Like the existing RCA Dome, the Indiana Stadium will be an integral part of the Indiana Convention Center
  
• Nearly 10,000 jobs created from both projects
  
• 4,200 permanent jobs
  
• 4,900 construction jobs
  
• Estimated $2,250,000,000 added to the state and regional economy during the first 10 years both facilities are up and running
  
• Keeps Indianapolis as one of the top convention and tradeshow destinations in America
  

Annual events

• DCI World Championships
  
• Bands of America Grand National Championships
  
• Home games for the Indianapolis Colts
  
• Circle City Classic
  
• IHSAA Indiana State football championships
  
• ISSMA band state finals
  

Notable Past events

• NCAA Men's Basketball Regional Finals (April 2009)
  
• NCAA Men's Basketball Final Four (April 2010)
  

Notable Future events

Big Ten Football Championship Game (2011)

• Super Bowl XLVI (February 5, 2012)
  
• NCAA Men's Basketball Final Four (April 2015)
  
• NCAA Women's Basketball Final Four (2016)
  

The first games ever to be played at Lucas Oil Stadium occurred on August 22, 2008 and were part of the PeyBack Classic, featuring Indiana High School Football games played between Noblesville High School and Fishers High School in Game 1, followed by New Palestine High School and Whiteland Community High School in Game 2.

Lucas Oil Stadium and the city of Indianapolis made a bid to host Super Bowl XLVI in 2012. On May 20, 2008, the bid was successful, defeating Houston, Texas and Glendale, Arizona for that right. The stadium is also host to the annual NFL Scouting Combine in February.

In addition to professional football games, the stadium hosted the semifinal and final rounds of the Men's Final Four in 2010. Historically, Indianapolis has been a popular choice for the Final Four. The NCAA has their headquarters there, and the event comes on a five-year rotation. The Big Ten Conference will also play the inaugural Big Ten Football Championship Game at Lucas Oil Stadium on December 3, 2011.

The Indiana Marching Band State Finals was a major events for the city in Marching Band competitions, and the Circle City Classic that is an annual American football game featuring two historically black colleges/universities (HBCUs) that is held in October.

On September 13, 2008, country music singer Kenny Chesney held the first public concert at the stadium.

_________________

All of this ^ adds up to a sound investment. It ain't cheap to do this kind of business but it does pay.

Construction of LOS and the expansion of the Indiana Convention Center were handled as one project, so financing was lumped together. The budget for the stadium was 675M, and the convention center 275M, for a total of 950M. Financing and interest bring the total cost to about 1.8B. The debt is expected to be paid off in 2040.

[Blue Horseshoe]

I heard JMV talking about this on the radio. Irsay is not happy at all with Manning. I think Manning knows he is done in Indy and he's using the media to sound off about it. I think Irsay was hoping they could end this relationship civilly without things going sour, but now that may not happen.

Maybe he just doesn't waste his time nurse-maiding some rookie who is being anointed the greatest ever without having done anything.

Personally, I wish the Colts would release Manning to go play for a team with a real defense and offensive line while I enjoy watching everyone who is hailing the new messiah turn on him when he ends up being just another rookie. Of course, no one will turn on the real culprits in this whole mess, the self-appointed "draft experts".