I would argue that Grigson's work over the past 2 years is vastly improved

[Steamboat_Shaun]

14 hours ago, gacoop1 said:

You can't put all the blame on Pagano, but give some credit of the failure of this organization to Grigson.  The draft picks, free agent pick ups, undrafted free agents, and the pick up north (Canada) yielded for the most part negative results,. Now, the team is on Panic Mode with 1-3 record.  Totally unacceptable with these two being the architect of this team.

 

I'd be interested to know how much influence Pagano had on some of those draft picks and FA signings. Laron Landry to me seems like the type of player that Pagano just drools over. Same with Antonio Morrison, who in reality, is probably too small to be playing LB in the NFL, but Chuck has a man crush on him, and maybe even TJ Green (jury's still out on him), who hasn't exactly been great so far, and had a very costly penalty vs the Jags. I also feel like D'Joun Smith was more than likely a guy that Pagano really liked.

[Hoose]

6 hours ago, theanarchist said:

I highlighted some names and I'll give you my opinion on them so far

 

Parry: Decent player, hard worker but not a difference maker. Lunch pale type of guy but he is not an above average DL.

Good: Hard to say but he has some potential but so far he has not played well, below average.

Clark: Seems to be another guy who could have potential but some believe he doesnt have what it takes to be an NFL offensive linemen.

Morrison: have not been impressed with him so far. Especially this last game. He's a rookie but I honestly don't see a lot of potential is this guy.

Bates: No idea. Showed good in college tape at OLB now he's playing ILB.

Blythe: Love the guy, great Hawkeye but he's getting pushed around a lot. I don't see him on the roster long term.

Bray: nice return guy but don't see him being anything other than that long term

The rest of the UDFA you mention are, in my opinion other that TY McGill, spot players/depth guys with no long term potential.

 

Just because they stick on the roster doesnt mean they are players that are going to help you win. That's the goal, keep players that will play well and help you win. But, in the two drafts that you just listed I don't see one true difference maker yet. There's potential for a couple: Kelly, Henry Anderson, Green? But even with those guys you have Anderson coming off of an ACL injury and Green who is a huge question mark in coverage. BTW, I find it really funny that a guy who has 4.3 speed has trouble in coverage. IDK, just seems odd to me.

 

I disagree with your whole topic. I think Grigson has done a terrible job overall. He's not had success bringing in talent that makes a difference. In the NFL you need 3-4 difference makers on your team in order to compete for 1) division 2) championship. Right now we have 2 IMO: Luck and Hilton and Hilton is iffy. In the days of yore we had difference makers a plenty: Peyton, Harrison, Reggie, Mathis, Freeney, Glenn and when healthy Bob Sanders.

 

As this roster sits we have a situation with the RB, OL, LB that I think is probably bottom 5 in the NFL if not worse. Maybe I'm over reacting but I don't think I am.

 

I get that people have a hard time ignoring the first three years of Grigson's tenure. His T. Rich decision, which by the way was fully supported by the owner or it would never have happened, remains a major black eye that he has trouble shedding, and it will probably dog him the rest of his career. Some of his free agents, like Cherilus, became injured and were simply no longer able to play. Some, like Freeman and DQ Jackson, were solid. His trade for Vontae Davis was terrific. You can't blame Grigson for Reggie Wayne's knee injury, which took the wind out of the passing game's sails. Don't forget what an amazing safety blanket Reggie was for Luck on third down that first year and half. 

 

The percentage of hit and miss is no better or worse than many other GMs in the league. But the expectations for the fan base grew exponentially, and i think incorrectly, with the first couple of years' success. That is a big cause of the current fan anger. Again, its understandable.

 

Grigson took risks, and many did not pan out. He hit free agency hard, and as is so often the case, there is far more disappointment than success from those signings. Its why Polian essentially ignored free agency. Too much of a crap shoot. 

 

Two things: this team was pretty much devoid of talent when Grigson began his tenure. He was starting from scratch. Getting Luck made the path easier, but aside from the QB, there were major, major weaknesses top to bottom. The team was old. And ownership decided to switch to a 3-4 D, which meant rebuilding the talent there to fit the scheme. That is an incomplete effort, but I believe the talent is finally being accumulated.

 

And they got greedy thinking they could buy their way into the SB with a large group of free agents. Historically, that just hasn't worked. In the future, if this team is going to go free agent, then be minimalists; spend the $ and get an impact player or two at a major position of need. Like, maybe sign a top youngish pass rush specialist this off season, if such a player exists. And an ILB. And then avoid any further expensive free agents and hit the draft hard. 

 

I think the team has pivoted from the get rich quick scheme of the first three years, as I have argued in my premise for this piece. And these past two years have been much, much  better in grabbing long term talent. The rebuild continues, but I believe it's now on track. What the team needs now is a competent head coach to lead them. 

[Superman]

10 hours ago, JPFolks said:

I am surprised at this comment coming from you.  There isn't a single football issue outside of maybe Luck and his career, that won't be "meh" two years from now.  We have a win now league and fandom.  2 more years put's Luck on the peak heading towards downside of his career already.  2 years (right now) is his absolute peak.  There's nothing "meh" about squandering that.  Or course in two years an older player we lost is irrelevant no matter the name or circumstance.  But we had him, he was a great Colt player and wanted to stay here.  We kept all the inferior LB's and sent him packing.   (It reminds me of what they did to Reggie, though I believe you disagree with that).  You are either a Grigs guy and will get to play even if you don't merit it, or you are not a Grig's guy and he'll run you out of town on a rail.  

 

From jump, you're wrong. Assume the young OL players are pretty good, and that's a unit locked down for the future. Assume the WRs are what we expect, that unit is locked down. Assume Geathers and Green are good, that unit is locked down. Assume Anderson, Parry, Ridgeway are good, that unit is pretty good.

 

Two years from now, Freeman will be 32. He has a LOT of miles on his legs already, having played in the CFL three years. They have a wider field, they play more snaps, and they play a 20 game schedule. He was a full time starter for the Colts for four years. If I'm going to advocate for getting rid of Jackson before he falls off completely, I can't act like Freeman isn't on the back nine of his career. 

 

In the meantime, as much as I like Freeman now, he wouldn't have been a difference maker for this defense. Sure, he'd be better than Moore was, and honestly, a few completed tackles might have won us the Lions game and maybe even the Jags game, so I'm not dismissing him. I'd love to have him for $4m/year, I think it was a mistake to let him walk, but he's not a foundational player, given his age and his ability.

 

The second bolded, I don't know what you're talking about. I think this is one of those made up things that people repeat over and over until it's accepted as fact, but there's no basis in fact at all. Using Reggie as an example is especially nonsense, since it was Grigson who re-signed Reggie, and since Reggie was AWFUL in his last year with the Colts, and hasn't played a down since. It was also Grigson who found and signed Freeman -- in fact, that was Grigson's first move as Colts GM, if I remember correctly. Freeman is the first Grigson guy. 

[krunk]

Badda Bing!  Bada Boom!

[JPFolks]

4 hours ago, Superman said:

 

From jump, you're wrong. Assume the young OL players are pretty good, and that's a unit locked down for the future. Assume the WRs are what we expect, that unit is locked down. Assume Geathers and Green are good, that unit is locked down. Assume Anderson, Parry, Ridgeway are good, that unit is pretty good.

 

Two years from now, Freeman will be 32. He has a LOT of miles on his legs already, having played in the CFL three years. They have a wider field, they play more snaps, and they play a 20 game schedule. He was a full time starter for the Colts for four years. If I'm going to advocate for getting rid of Jackson before he falls off completely, I can't act like Freeman isn't on the back nine of his career. 

 

In the meantime, as much as I like Freeman now, he wouldn't have been a difference maker for this defense. Sure, he'd be better than Moore was, and honestly, a few completed tackles might have won us the Lions game and maybe even the Jags game, so I'm not dismissing him. I'd love to have him for $4m/year, I think it was a mistake to let him walk, but he's not a foundational player, given his age and his ability.

 

The second bolded, I don't know what you're talking about. I think this is one of those made up things that people repeat over and over until it's accepted as fact, but there's no basis in fact at all. Using Reggie as an example is especially nonsense, since it was Grigson who re-signed Reggie, and since Reggie was AWFUL in his last year with the Colts, and hasn't played a down since. It was also Grigson who found and signed Freeman -- in fact, that was Grigson's first move as Colts GM, if I remember correctly. Freeman is the first Grigson guy. 

I don't see where you're disputing anything I said in the top portion...There;s really no reason we couldn't win this year and losing an important player like Freeman when he still had gas in the tank was a mistake.  They went after Sio Moore who proved to be terrible and obviously his original team knew it, but not Grigson.  (I do give him credit for moving on though, that was a breath of fresh air).  This year and next are prime Luck years, why wouldn't we do everything we can to maximize our success? It seems you agree not signing him was a mistake.   

 

You rattled off a list of young Colts players.  I am willing to be 1 out of 3 won't still be here that third year from now to fulfill that locked down future.  That's what NFL career spans, injuries, Free Agency and other forms of attrition does to the NFL.  So it's quite possible anyone you mentioned will be "Meh" in that third season.  I'd be surprised if you really disagreed with that law of NFL averages.  

 

The next part I know you disagree with.  But the evidence of Grigson's bias has been regularly discussed in the media, and many people with long NFL reporting careers have claimed that he does in fact play favorites for players like Harrison and Richardson and against players like Shipley and Wayne.  He showed no interest in resigning Reggie until Garcon blew him off.  Then they had Chuck beg him to stay.  Then, as soon as he could, he showed Reggie the door.  He easily could have allowed Reggie into Camp to show if he still had it or not, but he would not allow it.  Instead he wanted to clear the runway for another failed pet project, Andre Johnson.  He sucked.  Reggie's last season he was playing with serious injuries and he still produced as well as Johnson did.  Again, why not give Reggie a shot? Because he wasn't Grigson's guy.  He could really take much credit for him finishing as one of the most successful WR's in NFL history with even a mediocre year.  And with the tremendous failure of Johnson, he should have stuck with the guy who had team leadership and chemistry rather than the shiny new toy that turned out to be a dud.  Go back and look, there were plenty of us against signing Johnson.  If we could figure out it was a bad move, he should have been 10 steps ahead.  Long time (19 years) credentialed Colts reported Phillip B Wilson is a friend of mine and told me the stories about Grigson playing favorites came directly from inside the team and staff.  I choose to believe him and the other reporters who told the same stories (Wells was another as was the guy that does NBC Pro Football Talk and several other ESPN NFL reporters).  You choose to refute their reporting, I choose to accept it.  I think they are telling the truth, you apparently think they are lying, based on what I am unsure. 

 

Regardless, you believe what you want, but we should have kept Freeman, I said it on here the moment they let him go.  I think he would have made a big difference this year, who cares about beyond that.  Luck could get hurt this year or next and never play again.  There's nothing "meh" about wasting a year or two in very short NFL careers. 

[Hoose]

14 hours ago, JPFolks said:

I don't see where you're disputing anything I said in the top portion...There;s really no reason we couldn't win this year and losing an important player like Freeman when he still had gas in the tank was a mistake.  They went after Sio Moore who proved to be terrible and obviously his original team knew it, but not Grigson.  (I do give him credit for moving on though, that was a breath of fresh air).  This year and next are prime Luck years, why wouldn't we do everything we can to maximize our success? It seems you agree not signing him was a mistake.   

 

You rattled off a list of young Colts players.  I am willing to be 1 out of 3 won't still be here that third year from now to fulfill that locked down future.  That's what NFL career spans, injuries, Free Agency and other forms of attrition does to the NFL.  So it's quite possible anyone you mentioned will be "Meh" in that third season.  I'd be surprised if you really disagreed with that law of NFL averages.  

 

The next part I know you disagree with.  But the evidence of Grigson's bias has been regularly discussed in the media, and many people with long NFL reporting careers have claimed that he does in fact play favorites for players like Harrison and Richardson and against players like Shipley and Wayne.  He showed no interest in resigning Reggie until Garcon blew him off.  Then they had Chuck beg him to stay.  Then, as soon as he could, he showed Reggie the door.  He easily could have allowed Reggie into Camp to show if he still had it or not, but he would not allow it.  Instead he wanted to clear the runway for another failed pet project, Andre Johnson.  He sucked.  Reggie's last season he was playing with serious injuries and he still produced as well as Johnson did.  Again, why not give Reggie a shot? Because he wasn't Grigson's guy.  He could really take much credit for him finishing as one of the most successful WR's in NFL history with even a mediocre year.  And with the tremendous failure of Johnson, he should have stuck with the guy who had team leadership and chemistry rather than the shiny new toy that turned out to be a dud.  Go back and look, there were plenty of us against signing Johnson.  If we could figure out it was a bad move, he should have been 10 steps ahead.  Long time (19 years) credentialed Colts reported Phillip B Wilson is a friend of mine and told me the stories about Grigson playing favorites came directly from inside the team and staff.  I choose to believe him and the other reporters who told the same stories (Wells was another as was the guy that does NBC Pro Football Talk and several other ESPN NFL reporters).  You choose to refute their reporting, I choose to accept it.  I think they are telling the truth, you apparently think they are lying, based on what I am unsure. 

 

Regardless, you believe what you want, but we should have kept Freeman, I said it on here the moment they let him go.  I think he would have made a big difference this year, who cares about beyond that.  Luck could get hurt this year or next and never play again.  There's nothing "meh" about wasting a year or two in very short NFL careers. 

 

The fact that Reggie had one taker, the Pats, and they released him fairly quickly, tells you that he was finished. The Colts still miss Reggie, the glue handed third down stake mover who could find a way to get open against double teams in his sleep. But that guy is gone.... injuries and age catch up with them all, and so they did with Reggie. Grigson did the right thing in not re-signing him.

 

AS for Freeman, I agree with you. They should have signed him. But he rejected their offer and tested the free agent market, and the Colts moved on. They committed their $ in other directions, and went with what they felt at the time was a good backup plan. Didn't pan out, but that is now hindsight. Freeman wasn't great by any means, but he was reliable and solid for the most part, and they miss him. 

[Indianapolis-Colts-Fan]

I have a bigger problem with pags. He just isn't leader material. This team has no leader at the moment. 

[John Waylon]

Good is a win?

Nope. I'm out.

*

[JPFolks]

5 hours ago, Hoose said:

 

The fact that Reggie had one taker, the Pats, and they released him fairly quickly, tells you that he was finished. The Colts still miss Reggie, the glue handed third down stake mover who could find a way to get open against double teams in his sleep. But that guy is gone.... injuries and age catch up with them all, and so they did with Reggie. Grigson did the right thing in not re-signing him.

 

AS for Freeman, I agree with you. They should have signed him. But he rejected their offer and tested the free agent market, and the Colts moved on. They committed their $ in other directions, and went with what they felt at the time was a good backup plan. Didn't pan out, but that is now hindsight. Freeman wasn't great by any means, but he was reliable and solid for the most part, and they miss him. 

No one on either side suggested that Reggie failed. He said he wasn't having fun and it was a very different experience than his years with the Colts.  The Patriots granted his request to go. In addition, he could only sign with one team, he chose the Patriots.  How do you know no one else would have signed him? That's like saying we signed Johnson, so no one else was interested.  We're not privy to who his agent did or didn't talk to,  My point was, Reggie wasn't invited to Colts camp, where he wanted to play, so he chose to try out the Patriots and didn't like it.  No shocker really as it had to be as different as could be from the Colts where he was revered by all.  Though Belichick coveted Reggie, he wasn't a team elder, he was their bitter rival for many years.  So he bailed out.  And Johnson's poor performance is a matter of record.  There's nothing to suggest Reggie would have cost as much, forced them to sign a long contract (he only wanted to play 1.more year) and there was a track record of Grigson not wanting Reggie previously until Garcon blew him off and Reggie signed and was great. Grigs initially considered him done incorrectly that time as well. How many bad decisions by Grigson does it take before you question him on the Reggie decision.  In the end Reggie's heart was with Indy, he dipped his toe in elsewhere and decided it wasn't the same.and not worth it. 

[JPFolks]

5 hours ago, Hoose said:

 

The fact that Reggie had one taker, the Pats, and they released him fairly quickly, tells you that he was finished. The Colts still miss Reggie, the glue handed third down stake mover who could find a way to get open against double teams in his sleep. But that guy is gone.... injuries and age catch up with them all, and so they did with Reggie. Grigson did the right thing in not re-signing him.

 

AS for Freeman, I agree with you. They should have signed him. But he rejected their offer and tested the free agent market, and the Colts moved on. They committed their $ in other directions, and went with what they felt at the time was a good backup plan. Didn't pan out, but that is now hindsight. Freeman wasn't great by any means, but he was reliable and solid for the most part, and they miss him. 

When have Grigson's plans panned out? There were lots of people here who didn't require hindsight to condemn not keeping Freeman... we (i.e.many fans right here) knew it real time. The only plans he's good at is contracts that make his many miscues less destructive.  He get's credit for that, but I'd rather he just make great personnel decisions so the contracts would matter.  Sure, he got Vontae.  Most of the other moves have been failures.  Shipley who he wouldn't even play over the horrendous Harrison is the starting center in AZ and blocking well for their RB who had an NFL season high in rushing last night and Grigs benched him after really solid play. I have zero confidence in his talent evaluations including what a healthy Reggie could have done if Grigs had allowed him in camp.  He deserved a chance to PROVE his ability that last year.

[Hoose]

7 hours ago, John Waylon said:

Good is a win?

Nope. I'm out.

*

For a 7th round draft pick to be starting in this league and show the promise he has.......yeah, man, that is a darn good draft pick. Kudos to Grigs for that one. 

[bap1331]

Who wrote this thread?  Grigson?

[indyagent17]

Oh my, Missing the entire draft of 2013 is inexcusable 

 

We cant really judge the last two drafts as good until they mature and play well enough to justify their draft status.  

 

They have had 4 years to build this team with Luck having a rookie contract but that is gone and Luck is coming into his prime but he is getting beat up like a pinata..

 

Sure we won a few games in the playoffs we look like a JV team against the leagues best so those are somewhat hollow wind because they caused excitement but no true hardware (AFC titles and the AFC Finalist banners are an embarrassment considering the AFC south was and still is a joke and how can put up a banner for going to the AFC championship and nearly by losing 40 points!!!   I bleed blue folks but we deserve better than being a second class team. Yes I am ticked off at his comments today

 

Shame on Irsay, Grigson and Pagano for wasting those years in building a true title contender 

[crazycolt1]

5 hours ago, JPFolks said:

No one on either side suggested that Reggie failed. He said he wasn't having fun and it was a very different experience than his years with the Colts.  The Patriots granted his request to go. In addition, he could only sign with one team, he chose the Patriots.  How do you know no one else would have signed him? That's like saying we signed Johnson, so no one else was interested.  We're not privy to who his agent did or didn't talk to,  My point was, Reggie wasn't invited to Colts camp, where he wanted to play, so he chose to try out the Patriots and didn't like it.  No shocker really as it had to be as different as could be from the Colts where he was revered by all.  Though Belichick coveted Reggie, he wasn't a team elder, he was their bitter rival for many years.  So he bailed out.  And Johnson's poor performance is a matter of record.  There's nothing to suggest Reggie would have cost as much, forced them to sign a long contract (he only wanted to play 1.more year) and there was a track record of Grigson not wanting Reggie previously until Garcon blew him off and Reggie signed and was great. Grigs initially considered him done incorrectly that time as well. How many bad decisions by Grigson does it take before you question him on the Reggie decision.  In the end Reggie's heart was with Indy, he dipped his toe in elsewhere and decided it wasn't the same.and not worth it. 

Just out of curiosity where did you get the idea that Reggie could only make one pick on who to sign with?

He is a free agent and should be able to sign with any team he wants.

To assume Reggie still had game left in him might not be as you think?

This is not intended as a put down of Reggie.

With all there is to like or dislike about Grigson I think this is a none issue.  

[OLD FAN MAN]

13 hours ago, indyagent17 said:

Oh my, Missing the entire draft of 2013 is inexcusable 

 

We cant really judge the last two drafts as good until they mature and play well enough to justify their draft status.  

 

They have had 4 years to build this team with Luck having a rookie contract but that is gone and Luck is coming into his prime but he is getting beat up like a pinata..

 

Sure we won a few games in the playoffs we look like a JV team against the leagues best so those are somewhat hollow wind because they caused excitement but no true hardware (AFC titles and the AFC Finalist banners are an embarrassment considering the AFC south was and still is a joke and how can put up a banner for going to the AFC championship and nearly by losing 40 points!!!   I bleed blue folks but we deserve better than being a second class team. Yes I am ticked off at his comments today

 

Shame on Irsay, Grigson and Pagano for wasting those years in building a true title contender 

I agree, some teams compete every season, no excuses, no rebuilding, some are ready every season

[coltsfeva]

By comparison, here is a list of players from the Patriots from 2013 - 2016. There are some misses and some good players taken.

 

2016
1.29				Forfeited: Deflategate
2.29	DB	Cyrus Jones	Alabama
3.15	OL	Joe Thuney	North Carolina State	from Saints
3.29	QB	Jacoby Brissett	North Carolina State
3.34	DL	Vincent Valentine	Nebraska	compensatory selection
4.14	WR	Malcolm Mitchell	Georgia	from Saints
6.33	LB	Kamu Grugier-Hill	Eastern Illinois	compensatory selection
6.39	LB	Elandon Roberts	Houston	compensatory selection
6.46	OL	Ted Karras	Illinois	compensatory selection
7.04	WR	Devin Lucien	Arizona State	from Seahawks through Cowboys
2015
1.32	DL	Malcom Brown	Texas
2.32	DB	Jordan Richards	Stanford
3.33	DL	Geneo Grissom	Oklahoma	compensatory pick
4.02	DL	Trey Flowers	Arkansas	(from Tampa Bay)
4.12	OL	Tre' Jackson	Florida State	(from Cleveland)
4.32	OL	Shaq Mason	Georgia Tech
5.30	OL	Joe Cardona	Navy	(from Green Bay)
6.02	LB	Matthew Wells	Mississippi State	(from Tampa Bay)
6.26	TE	A.J. Derby	Arkansas	(from Cleveland through Baltimore)
7.30	DB	Darryl Roberts	Marshall	(from Green Bay)
7.36	LB	Xzavier Dickson	Alabama	compensatory pick
2014
1.29	DL	Dominique Easley	Florida
2.30	QB	Jimmy Garoppolo	Eastern Illinois
4.05	OL	Bryan Stork	Florida State	(from Jaguars)
4.30	RB	James White	Wisconsin
4.40	OL	Cameron Fleming	Stanford	compensatory pick
6.03	OL	Jon Halapio	Florida	(from Jaguars)
6.22	DL	Zach Moore		(from Eagles)
6.30	DB	Jemea Thomas	Georgia Tech
7.29	WR	Jeremy Gallon	Michigan
2013
2.22	LB	Jamie Collins	Southern Mississippi	from MIN
2.29	WR	Aaron Dobson	Marshall
3.21	DB	Logan Ryan	Rutgers	from MIN
3.29	DB	Duron Harmon	Rutgers
4.05	WR	Josh Boyce	Texas Christian	from DET through MIN
7.20	DL	Michael Buchanan	Illinois	from CHI through TB
7.29	LB	Steve Beauharnais	Rutgers

 

[colts8718]

On 10/7/2016 at 9:58 PM, indyagent17 said:

Oh my, Missing the entire draft of 2013 is inexcusable 

 

We cant really judge the last two drafts as good until they mature and play well enough to justify their draft status.  

 

They have had 4 years to build this team with Luck having a rookie contract but that is gone and Luck is coming into his prime but he is getting beat up like a pinata..

 

Sure we won a few games in the playoffs we look like a JV team against the leagues best so those are somewhat hollow wind because they caused excitement but no true hardware (AFC titles and the AFC Finalist banners are an embarrassment considering the AFC south was and still is a joke and how can put up a banner for going to the AFC championship and nearly by losing 40 points!!!   I bleed blue folks but we deserve better than being a second class team. Yes I am ticked off at his comments today

 

Shame on Irsay, Grigson and Pagano for wasting those years in building a true title contender 

They went for the quick fix and now there paying for it Grigson and Pagano should be in politics the line of S--t that comes out of there mouths never end's 

[crazycolt1]

55 minutes ago, colts8718 said:

They went for the quick fix and now there paying for it Grigson and Pagano should be in politics the line of S--t that comes out of there mouths never end's 

Is their line of s--t and deeper than your line?

[JPFolks]

On 10/7/2016 at 10:08 PM, crazycolt1 said:

Just out of curiosity where did you get the idea that Reggie could only make one pick on who to sign with?

He is a free agent and should be able to sign with any team he wants.

To assume Reggie still had game left in him might not be as you think?

This is not intended as a put down of Reggie.

With all there is to like or dislike about Grigson I think this is a none issue.  

What I said was you can only sign with one team.  You can't be a Patriot AND a Raven AND a Titan.... he signed with the best possible team in the league who obviously wanted him.  He never needed to field offers publicly... he got the offer from the best team (outside of what he wanted, the Colts) and signed.  If he had signed with some bottom dweller, you might theorize that was his only option... but when you sign with the best team in the league, it's done.  Once signed with the best team he realized he just didn't want to play for anyone else,  

[JPFolks]

By the way, I think today's putrid play further disproves the OP's point.

[#12.]

I would argue Grigson's work over the past two years has vastly improved.

 

After two years of Grigson "improvement," the team is worse than ever. 

 

[colts8718]

9 hours ago, crazycolt1 said:

Is their line of s--t and deeper than your line?

Another politician the s--t never ends 

[crazycolt1]

2 hours ago, JPFolks said:

What I said was you can only sign with one team.  You can't be a Patriot AND a Raven AND a Titan.... he signed with the best possible team in the league who obviously wanted him.  He never needed to field offers publicly... he got the offer from the best team (outside of what he wanted, the Colts) and signed.  If he had signed with some bottom dweller, you might theorize that was his only option... but when you sign with the best team in the league, it's done.  Once signed with the best team he realized he just didn't want to play for anyone else,  

So that in itself leads you to believe he still had game?

IMO if he still had game and still wanted to play he would be on a roster.

Maybe his vanity or pride wouldn't let him say he couldn't play anymore? That would not be unusual.

If he didn't want to play for anyone else he wouldn't have signed with the Patriots in the first place.

[IinD]

2 hours ago, JPFolks said:

By the way, I think today's putrid play further disproves the OP's point.

I honestly wish I was like the fans that act like wins like this are great.

 

Giving up 500 yds AT HOME to a team like that led by Hoyer is just dreadful I'm sorry.

 

[JPFolks]

2 hours ago, crazycolt1 said:

So that in itself leads you to believe he still had game?

IMO if he still had game and still wanted to play he would be on a roster.

Maybe his vanity or pride wouldn't let him say he couldn't play anymore? That would not be unusual.

If he didn't want to play for anyone else he wouldn't have signed with the Patriots in the first place.

That means he worked out for the Patriots and THEY felt he still had game.  It also means there is no evidence he didn't.  But my point has been from the start, that Grigson could easily have allowed him to come to Colts camp.  If he hadn't been good enough, it would have been clear and he would have been gone. The only logical reason he wasn't invited is because Grigson didn't want him regardless of his game and he couldn't let Reggie come to camp and prove he did because he wanted his *ic choice of Andre Johnson and never wanted Reggie to start with.  He humiliated Reggie by not bringing him to camp, so if your argument (or anyone else's) is that he didn't want to have to cut Reggie, he did worse than that.  You and others keep saying he was done, but the thing you can point to is Grigson not bringing him back.  He played seriously injured the year before trying to help the team.  But there's lots of evidence he DID have game.. the New England Patriots signed him.  No one claims it wasn't 100% Reggie's decision to leave them.  So you're choosing to say he was done based on nothing more than Grigson's bad decision making, hence the worthless signing of Andre Johnson instead of Reggie.   And we have ample proof of his bad judgement.  

[JPFolks]

2 hours ago, IinD said:

I honestly wish I was like the fans that act like wins like this are great.

 

Giving up 500 yds AT HOME to a team like that led by Hoyer is just dreadful I'm sorry.

 

You are correct.  But in the end, a win is better than a loss... and we're going to have a lot of those this year.  

[crazycolt1]

15 minutes ago, JPFolks said:

That means he worked out for the Patriots and THEY felt he still had game.  It also means there is no evidence he didn't.  But my point has been from the start, that Grigson could easily have allowed him to come to Colts camp.  If he hadn't been good enough, it would have been clear and he would have been gone. The only logical reason he wasn't invited is because Grigson didn't want him regardless of his game and he couldn't let Reggie come to camp and prove he did because he wanted his *ic choice of Andre Johnson and never wanted Reggie to start with.  He humiliated Reggie by not bringing him to camp, so if your argument (or anyone else's) is that he didn't want to have to cut Reggie, he did worse than that.  You and others keep saying he was done, but the thing you can point to is Grigson not bringing him back.  He played seriously injured the year before trying to help the team.  But there's lots of evidence he DID have game.. the New England Patriots signed him.  No one claims it wasn't 100% Reggie's decision to leave them.  So you're choosing to say he was done based on nothing more than Grigson's bad decision making, hence the worthless signing of Andre Johnson instead of Reggie.   And we have ample proof of his bad judgement.  

Grigson felt he was done and didn't want to spend the money on his veteran contract. But you want to make it a personal thing that Grigson did something wrong when all he was doing was protecting the cap money.

Most everyone including you thought the signing of Johnson was a good thing. Now you are using hindsight as your judgment? The NFL is what have you done for me lately, always has been that way and that is not changing.

 

[JPFolks]

1 minute ago, crazycolt1 said:

Grigson felt he was done and didn't want to spend the money on his veteran contract. But you want to make it a personal thing that Grigson did something wrong when all he was doing was protecting the cap money.

Most everyone including you thought the signing of Johnson was a good thing. Now you are using hindsight as your judgment? The NFL is what have you done for me lately, always has been that way and that is not changing.

 

WRONG... I was for resigning Reggie from the start, not Andre Johnson.  It is laughable that you're using Grigson's judgement as the Gold Standard to convince yourself Reggie must have been done.  If he got signed with the Patriots, he was not done.  That's proof.  I take Belichicks and his staff's record of decision making a million miles more than Grigson's.  And he didn't protect by signing a washed up Johnson, so that proves that theory does not hold water.  How much more proof do you need that Grigson has no credibility judging talent? He's put together the leagues worst defense, a line that is playing 2-3 rookies out of desperation hoping to find some line that might not get Luck killed.  Grigson makes bad decisions.  Reggie is only one of legions of them. Grigson decision is the only piece of info you're basing trashing one of the greatest Colts players in history, ignoring all the evidence against Grigson and for Belichick and his decision making.  It sounds mostly like you're just being contrarian.  Love Grigson all you want... put all your faith and credibility behind him as you have here.  Good luck with that. 

[crazycolt1]

5 minutes ago, JPFolks said:

WRONG... I was for resigning Reggie from the start, not Andre Johnson.  It is laughable that you're using Grigson's judgement as the Gold Standard to convince yourself Reggie must have been done.  If he got signed with the Patriots, he was not done.  That's proof.  I take Belichicks and his staff's record of decision making a million miles more than Grigson's.  And he didn't protect by signing a washed up Johnson, so that proves that theory does not hold water.  How much more proof do you need that Grigson has no credibility judging talent? He's put together the leagues worst defense, a line that is playing 2-3 rookies out of desperation hoping to find some line that might not get Luck killed.  Grigson makes bad decisions.  Reggie is only one of legions of them. Grigson decision is the only piece of info you're basing trashing one of the greatest Colts players in history, ignoring all the evidence against Grigson and for Belichick and his decision making.  It sounds mostly like you're just being contrarian.  Love Grigson all you want... put all your faith and credibility behind him as you have here.  Good luck with that. 

The non signing of Reggie is just another non issue thing for you to bring up. You assumed that Reggie could still be a player but yet there is nothing to prove that except your opinion. If Reggie thought he could still play he would be playing.

This Reggie issue has nothing to do with what is going on with the Colts. It's old news that some want to bring up just to throw gas on the fire.

Reggie will be in the ring of honor and no one is trashing anyone here.

[JPFolks]

9 minutes ago, crazycolt1 said:

The non signing of Reggie is just another non issue thing for you to bring up. You assumed that Reggie could still be a player but yet there is nothing to prove that except your opinion. If Reggie thought he could still play he would be playing.

This Reggie issue has nothing to do with what is going on with the Colts. It's old news that some want to bring up just to throw gas on the fire.

Reggie will be in the ring of honor and no one is trashing anyone here.

Reggie had no intent to still be playing so your comment doesn't even make sense. You offered zero credible evidence to support your side. I offered him being worked out by and signed by the Patriots.  In addition, you think Grigson made the right decision not to bring Reggie in, but he was proven wrong on the side by side decision to bring Johnson in instead. 

[crazycolt1]

6 minutes ago, JPFolks said:

Reggie had no intent to still be playing so your comment doesn't even make sense. You offered zero credible evidence to support your side. I offered him being worked out by and signed by the Patriots.  In addition, you think Grigson made the right decision not to bring Reggie in, but he was proven wrong on the side by side decision to bring Johnson in instead. 

You have offered no credible evidence that Reggie could still play when there is no evidence he could, just your opinion. He was signed by the Patriots and never took a snap in a game. You have hand picked the reason the Reggie wasn't having fun. And why was it that Reggie wasn't having fun?  You don't know anymore than I do about what Reggie was truly thinking and why he wasn't playing then and is still not playing.

And again, you are using hindsight.

You accuse me of thinking Grigson made the right decision when I have no clue if he did or didn't. Johnson has no bearing on if Reggie could still play. As far as Grigson making a mistake Reggie has yet to prove him wrong has he? Signing with the Patriots is not proof of anything except the Patriots kicked the tires.

You assume I back every move that Grigson has made and that is not true. Just because I am not on the fire Grigson bandwagon and my opinion don't match yours you are pointing a finger at me because of it. Sorry, I do have a different opinion and it don't have to match yours. We both bring good points to the forum and no where does it say we have to agree. I have no ill feelings so lets move on to the next subject?

 

[Happy2BeHere]

On 10/4/2016 at 11:25 PM, crazycolt1 said:

It's pretty simple if you think about it.

Irsay didn't want to retread GMs like most teams in the past has. No matter your opinion Grigson hasn't done that bad of job. Injuries have not let us see the potential. It also takes time for linemen to play together and jel as a unit.

You mention a history of winning? The last time I looked the Colts have not had a losing season since Grigson has been here. As great as Polian was he took longer to start winning that Grigson has. Grigson was hired when this team was 2-14 and 39 million in cap room hades when the Polian smoked cleared.

It is way too early to know exactly how this is going to turn out. The knee jerk reactions that some want because of losing clouds the sight of the big picture.

Do I have a crystal ball? No. But neither does anyone else.

 

I have a crystal ball and I paid a pretty penny for it...although it doesn't predict the future I still have one and therefore I'll pretend like you didn't say that  lol 

[Myles]

So are his 2 OK drafts luck or are the 3 horrible ones luck?

 

Combined, he's still done terrible.

 

[jameszeigler834]

On ‎10‎/‎4‎/‎2016 at 3:00 PM, Hoose said:

Grigson gets a lot of blame, and for his first couple of years, it was well deserved. But lets examine the past two years with regard to the Draft, Free Agents, and UFAs. 

 

2015 DRAFT

1. Dorsett. Should prove to be a solid player through the years. Needs to step up a level over the next few weeks. I think he will. 

2. D'Joun Smith. A miss. But only because he's never healthy. 

3. Henry Anderson. A big time win. Lets hope he gets back to playing shape by mid season. He's still slowed by the knee a bit. Great player.

4. Clayton Geathers. A big time win. Should be a starting safety for years to come. 

5. David Parry. Solid player. May be playing out of position at NT. Would like to see him at DT. But a keeper. 

6. Josh Robinson and Amarlo Herrera. Gone and forgotten. 

7. Denzelle Good. A huge win. Getting a starting offensive lineman in the 7th round? Very rare. 

 

2016 DRAFT

1. Ryan Kelly. Should be an anchor at Center for years to come. 

2. TJ Green. So far, so good. Should pair with Geathers to anchor the safety position in a high performing manner. 

3. Le'Raven Clark. An intentional pick for the future. Time will tell if it was a worthwhile gamble but he has the intangibles. 

4. Hassan Ridgeway. So far, so good. This is a position that takes time to master. Solid for a 4th rounder. 

4. Antonio Morrison. Needs to improve his coverage skills but for a rookie he shows genuine promise. 

5. Joe Haeg. Another 5th round gem and appears to have the skills to develop into a solid starter. 

7. Trevor Bates. Practice squad. Could be good. No clue yet. 

7. Austin Blythe. Needs work but for a 7th rounder they have a potential long time backup at Center and Guard. 

 

These two drafts have been strong. Grigson should get some credit for that, given all the appropriate criticism he received for his first few efforts. 

 

Recent Free Agents

1. Mike Adams. A defensive anchor. Where the D would be without him I don't want to imagine. 

2. Kendall Langford. Still banged up a bit but a very solid player last year and likely will re-emerge this year when fully healthy. 

3. Frank Gore. I love the guy. But this is probably his last year. Still a quality running back. 

 

Undrafted Free Agents. 

1. Quan Bray

2. Edwin Jackson

3. Curt Maggitt

4. Josh Ferguson

5. Chester Rogers

6. TY McGill

 

Again, these free agents are significant improvement over prior efforts, and the UFAs represent great value outside the draft. 

 

That's 23 new players on the roster in the past 2 seasons. Many starting. 

I would argue that as the team matures, the quality of play will absolutely improve. This is a VERY YOUNG TEAM for the most part interspersed with some old timers. 

 

Add in another solid draft and getting a top quality pass rusher in free agency and this team has potential. Its just that the growing pains are rough. 

Grigson, I would argue, is doing his job the past two seasons. And doing it well. 

 

Pagano, on the other hand, is a really good guy..................and a lousy head coach. Show him the door at the end of the year. 

Ya but two good offseasons don't make up for two-3 years worth of neglect to fix this teams glaring weakness's. I think if this team finishes with fewer than 8 wins they both need to be gone.

[GoColts8818]

8 hours ago, JPFolks said:

WRONG... I was for resigning Reggie from the start, not Andre Johnson.  It is laughable that you're using Grigson's judgement as the Gold Standard to convince yourself Reggie must have been done.  If he got signed with the Patriots, he was not done.  That's proof.  I take Belichicks and his staff's record of decision making a million miles more than Grigson's.  And he didn't protect by signing a washed up Johnson, so that proves that theory does not hold water.  How much more proof do you need that Grigson has no credibility judging talent? He's put together the leagues worst defense, a line that is playing 2-3 rookies out of desperation hoping to find some line that might not get Luck killed.  Grigson makes bad decisions.  Reggie is only one of legions of them. Grigson decision is the only piece of info you're basing trashing one of the greatest Colts players in history, ignoring all the evidence against Grigson and for Belichick and his decision making.  It sounds mostly like you're just being contrarian.  Love Grigson all you want... put all your faith and credibility behind him as you have here.  Good luck with that. 

BB is known for kicking the tires on vets to see if they have anything left.  The fact Reggie was out before a real game was played supports the idea Reggie was done.  

[smittywerb]

Agreed OP.

 

I believe that Grigs should be given a pass for the first few years.  Those years we were winning the division and picking late in the rounds with the team we had.  I don't think people realize that those teams weren't all that good when it came to talent, solid and tough, but not good.  Now with the past two years given better drafting positions, Grigs shown he can grab good talent in any round.

 

I think the Colts problem is we didn't have a LEGIT rebuild.  When Luck came in, we hit the ground running.  We didn't get a chance to build around our young qb like the Seahawks or other teams.  It just sucks because we're NOW going through it.

 

Now I know, Grigs FAs haven't panned out, but they made sense when he signed them.  He's also had his share of dumb decisions also.  But I think given the right drafting positions and FA signings, we can be back near the top in a few years.  I know this might not sit well, but we could use some losing seasons to actually go through a proper REBUILD and not a RETOOL