Should the Colts Trade 18th Pic to Denver?

[scooter4910]

Did anyone happen to see the The Sports Daily  article By Mike Batista (saw on YardBarker) about the Colts trading their first round to Denver? With so few pics anyone see this as an option since we've had pretty good success in the later rounds?

 

Broncos move up to No. 18

If the Broncos and Jets are still looking for quarterbacks in two weeks, the Jets will have the inside track on Paxton Lynch because they have the No. 20 pick and the Broncos are at No. 31.

The Broncos, however, have 10 picks in the 2016 draft and can put together a nice package for the Colts to get the No. 18 pick. The Colts have just six picks because they’re without a sixth-rounder. Along with the No. 31 pick, they could get the Broncos’ second-rounder and a late-round pick in the deal.

 

http://www.yardbarker.com/nfl/articles/six_more_potential_first_round_trades_in_nfl_draft/s1_12740_20688691

[21isSuperman]

Gonna change that thread title.  It's misleading

[Boiler_Colt]

I was thinking this exact thing.The Rams moving to #1 means  no one is likely to draft Lynch until  Buffalo or the Jets. #18 then becomes a prime spot for someone like Denver to trade up. 

[scooter4910]

6 minutes ago, 21isSuperman said:

Gonna change that thread title.  It's misleading

Why?

[Superman]

The trade is fair, but I wouldn't want to move back that far in the first round. 

[jvan1973]

10 minutes ago, scooter4910 said:

Why?

Because it was misleading 

[scooter4910]

8 minutes ago, jvan1973 said:

Because it was misleading 

How would you phrase "Should the Colts Trade 18th Pic to Denver?"

[MB-ColtsFan]

3 minutes ago, scooter4910 said:

How would you phrase "Should the Colts Trade 18th Pic to Denver?"

lol

[21isSuperman]

22 minutes ago, scooter4910 said:

Why?

Your thread title was "Colts Trade 18th Pic to Denver?"....that suggests it has already happened and you're looking for confirmation.  I changed it to be more fitting of the link you posted, which is a hypothetical scenario.

[jvan1973]

15 minutes ago, scooter4910 said:

How would you phrase "Should the Colts Trade 18th Pic to Denver?"

That isn't what it was before it washows changed

[Defjamz26]

I'd do it for their 3rd and 4th tbh. But we could probably get a better deal than that since a QB is on the line. I think Ragland and Conklin are the targets. If they're not there it's worth trading down. I'm not sure the Colts are as hot on Billings as we are.

 

But it may not be an option because SF and Philly might be in the QB market so they'd have to get in front of them too.

[chad72]

1st and 2nd is the least we'll get from the Broncos if we do that.

 

But then, the Broncos need to really believe in that guy.

[wig]

Depending on who's left on whether or not I take it. If BPA happens to hit a need I'll take it. If not, move back. 

[scooter4910]

1 hour ago, 21isSuperman said:

Your thread title was "Colts Trade 18th Pic to Denver?"....that suggests it has already happened and you're looking for confirmation.  I changed it to be more fitting of the link you posted, which is a hypothetical scenario.

hmmm...I think you're pulling my leg. I haven't had that much to drink as of yet.

[gacker65]

I could see this.  I can also see a couple other moving back into the 1st at about our pick.

[NewColtsFan]

4 hours ago, Superman said:

The trade is fair, but I wouldn't want to move back that far in the first round. 

 

+1 for me too.......

 

I don't want to drop 13 spots.

 

Honestly,   I don't want to drop more than 8 spots in any trade in any round.     1/4 of a round seems to be my personal limit for my willingness to move down.

 

I suppose it all depends on what the Colts are offered....   but I'd take a more cautious approach.

 

[BlueShoe]

49 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

+1 for me too.......

 

I don't want to drop 13 spots.

 

Honestly,   I don't want to drop more than 8 spots in any trade in any round.     1/4 of a round seems to be my personal limit for my willingness to move down.

 

I suppose it all depends on what the Colts are offered....   but I'd take a more cautious approach.

 

 

Well one thing is for sure. You're not going to be making any decisions. The Colts front office has a team of people and on draft day they gather in what is called a War Room. This is headed by Ryan Grigson, Chuck Pagano, and Jim Irsay. Grigson is the General Manager and he has kept coach Pagano and Jim Irsay in the loop throughout the draft process. They go into the War room with an idea of different possible scenarios and countermeasures with how to react in certain situations. 

 

You see caller, we call this the NFL draft. The fans don't make the decisions. 

[crazycolt1]

29 minutes ago, BlueShoe said:

 

Well one thing is for sure. You're not going to be making any decisions. The Colts front office has a team of people and on draft day they gather in what is called a War Room. This is headed by Ryan Grigson, Chuck Pagano, and Jim Irsay. Grigson is the General Manager and he has kept coach Pagano and Jim Irsay in the loop throughout the draft process. They go into the War room with an idea of different possible scenarios and countermeasures with how to react in certain situations. 

 

You see caller, we call this the NFL draft. The fans don't make the decisions. 

Let us know when we have your permission to have an opinion.

[NewColtsFan]

36 minutes ago, BlueShoe said:

 

Well one thing is for sure. You're not going to be making any decisions. The Colts front office has a team of people and on draft day they gather in what is called a War Room. This is headed by Ryan Grigson, Chuck Pagano, and Jim Irsay. Grigson is the General Manager and he has kept coach Pagano and Jim Irsay in the loop throughout the draft process. They go into the War room with an idea of different possible scenarios and countermeasures with how to react in certain situations. 

 

You see caller, we call this the NFL draft. The fans don't make the decisions. 

 

This must be your attempt at......    Sarcasm.

 

Did you ever learn what happened to the Hindenburg?       Same thing for you post......   

[BlueShoe]

13 minutes ago, crazycolt1 said:

Let us know when we have your permission to have an opinion.

 

You don't need my permission.

[BlueShoe]

22 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

This must be your attempt at......    Sarcasm.

 

Did you ever learn what happened to the Hindenburg?       Same thing for you post......   

 

You think pretty highly of yourself, don't you?

 

It's a message board. We're not fighting Wars here.

[ColtsBlueFL]

At this point, a trade will not get set in stone.  Potential trades in principal can be agreed upon that are draft day dependent. Two things could happen to derail it-

 

1. Colts determine a player of elite or exceptionally high talent has fallen to them, and renege on the potential deal.  They draft said player, deal off.

 

2. The player team B wants to trade up for gets taken off the board before the Colts pick is on the clock.  Team B calls the Colts and says we no longer want to transact the trade deal agreed to as our target is no longer on the board.  Thanks, but no thanks.

 

The final corollary is if the top two do happen, the Colts must feel confident that of a  group of guys they have on radar in late first through early 3rd rounds, they will be able to get some of their targeted guys with each pick.

 

The coaches have read all the scouting reports, talked with the guys after (watching or personally) working them out, determine scheme fit etc.. and know who they want on the team. Who they want to coach, and those they do not.  Even if those other guys appear to grade even with or better than the other player {according to media and fans}.

 

So it would not be just a matter of  "oh goody, we trade our pick and now we can get more guys in the draft."  There's much more to it than that.

[UKColt13]

13 spots is an awfully long way to fall. Even if we bagged an extra 2nd rounder I'm not sure about that.

 

I could see trading back and grabbing Karl Joseph at 31. 

 

I wouldn't be mad if we did it. I'd be slightly anxious about the outcome though.

[krunk]

5 hours ago, BlueShoe said:

 

Well one thing is for sure. You're not going to be making any decisions. The Colts front office has a team of people and on draft day they gather in what is called a War Room. This is headed by Ryan Grigson, Chuck Pagano, and Jim Irsay. Grigson is the General Manager and he has kept coach Pagano and Jim Irsay in the loop throughout the draft process. They go into the War room with an idea of different possible scenarios and countermeasures with how to react in certain situations. 

 

You see caller, we call this the NFL draft. The fans don't make the decisions. 

Trying to give him a dose of his own medicine I see! I saw you guys going at it in that other thread.

[Defjamz26]

3 minutes ago, UKColt13 said:

13 spots is an awfully long way to fall. Even if we bagged an extra 2nd rounder I'm not sure about that.

 

I could see trading back and grabbing Karl Joseph at 31. 

 

I wouldn't be mad if we did it. I'd be slightly anxious about the outcome though.

Well there is a drop off in talent around 17 or so. The only 2 projected first round guys the Colts seem to be interested in that might be in their range is Ragland and Conklin. If they're gone, none of the other projected first round guys are interesting at 18.

[jvan1973]

1 minute ago, Defjamz26 said:

Well there is a drop off in talent around 17 or so. The only 2 projected first round guys the Colts seem to be interested in that might be in their range is Ragland and Conklin. If they're gone, none of the other projected first round guys are interesting at 18.

Who says there is a significant talent "drop off" at 17?

[LockeDown]

1 minute ago, jvan1973 said:

Who says there is a significant talent "drop off" at 17?

THe anonymous GMs say there is no difference between the mid first round and the third round talent level.  So it might be to our benefit IF they are correct.

[Defjamz26]

31 minutes ago, jvan1973 said:

Who says there is a significant talent "drop off" at 17?

A lot of people have said that. Even some esteemed members on this board like Superman. But a lot of reports from GMs and scouts have said the same thing. After Ramsey, Tunsil, Jack, Buckner, Elliot, Stanley, Bosa, Hargreaves, Conklin, Ragland, Lawson, Wentz, Goff, Billings, Lee, etc....there really isn't much more true blue-chip, can't miss first round guys. 

 

Those mid-late first round guys aren't that much higher than some of the 2nd-3rd round guys. That's why in some analysts mocks you see guys like Correa and Whitehair jumping into the 1st.

[BlueShoe]

1 hour ago, krunk said:

Trying to give him a dose of his own medicine I see! I saw you guys going at it in that other thread.

 

It is freaking ridiculous man.

 

Did you know the team with the most points, after the time expires, wins the game?

 

I have never seen anything like that dude before. He is always pulling these stunts. Talking down to people. It is like he truly believes everyone on this board besides him are stupid.

 

I tend to believe people are smarter than they probably are. I believe that if we treat people as though they are intelligent, then they will more often than not, do their best to give intelligent responses. On the other hand, if we treat everyone as though they are stupid then we are just going to tick them off. That cat is an insult factory. I am surprised everyone on the board hasn't put him on ignore. 

[Cynjin]

5 hours ago, BlueShoe said:

 

 

 

It's a message board. We're not fighting Wars here.

 

Then why don't you drop it.

[BlueShoe]

Just now, Cynjin said:

 

Then why don't you drop it.

 

It is not a war. It also something that we should not stop discussing.

 

It should be expected that Colts fans have at least a little respect for each other. Instead of the condescending responses we see too often on these boards.

[krunk]

6 minutes ago, BlueShoe said:

 

It is freaking ridiculous man.

 

Did you know the team with the most points, after the time expires, wins the game?

 

I have never seen anything like that dude before. He is always pulling these stunts. Talking down to people. It is like he truly believes everyone on this board besides him are stupid.

 

I tend to believe people are smarter than they probably are. I believe that if we treat people as though they are intelligent, then they will more often than not, do their best to give intelligent responses. On the other hand, if we treat everyone as though they are stupid then we are just going to tick them off. That cat is an insult factory. I am surprised everyone on the board hasn't put him on ignore. 

 

I'm just addressing the discussion or argument you guys were having mostly because it was funny.  Me and NCF get along okay for the most part.  Every now and then there's a little sticking point or two, but it's sorted out with a couple posts and we move on. 

[ColtsBlueFL]

1 hour ago, jvan1973 said:

Who says there is a significant talent "drop off" at 17?

 

Gil Brandt, Pat Kirwan, Chris Landry ... for three.

 

All state only between 16-19 true round 1 players in this draft.

 

Further, they state this is often (not always) the case every year.

[jvan1973]

2 minutes ago, ColtsBlueFL said:

 

Gil Brandt, Pat Kirwan, Chris Landry ... for three.

 

All state only between 16-19 true round 1 players in this draft.

And mayock says there are 12 interior d lineman worthy of a first round grade.     

[MSColtsFan]

If the target is a guy like Kelly, and you just can't bring yourself to draft a center at 18, this is the kind of thing you do.  I also agree that there is a lot of similarity between the talent that should be at 18 and picks which will be made into the mid part of the second round.  Meaning, I'm not sure you do lose a lot moving back in the first this year.  There are obvious exceptions, like OT this draft.  But I'm one who believes OT isn't what the Colts want early.  And this doesn't even get into the possibility that a position gets hot and makes a run pushing others back.  If both Lynch and Connor go in the first, others fall.  If Henry gets grabbed after Elliott, if there's a run on WRs... strange things happen in the draft. 

[BlueShoe]

15 minutes ago, jvan1973 said:

And mayock says there are 12 interior d lineman worthy of a first round grade.     

 

I believe we have a few positions that are deep this year. I would not just say Interior Defensive Linemen. I would actually say Defensive Linemen in general is pretty deep. 

 

I also believe offensive linemen and running backs are deep.

 

I think sometimes when the major so-called skilled positions are considered weak (such as receiver this year), some analyst view the draft as light on talent. 

[krunk]

 

Defensively I think we'll be straight as long as we come out of this draft having made the front 7 a real strength of this defense which will be done by adding some quality linebackers.  Maybe we'll get a surprise D lineman pick in there somewhere, but at least increase the talent at linebacker for sure. Hopetully we can add 1 of the 4 safeties I like between Thompson, Joseph, K. Russell, S. Davis.  I haven't watched a whole lot of Houston Carson but I'll include his name as a 5th. I'm still kind of feeling like we need to add another Cornerback in some ways.

 

Ryan Clark called us a "Sinking Ship" on ESPN so I'd love to prove it isn't so.

[BrentMc11]

Stay the course....unless there is a deal we cannot pass up.....easy answer.

[MarquisJ]

I wouldnt be upset if we did trade it to denver only if we get like a 2nd 4 6 and ofc their 32 overall which they would probably do if they really want their qb

[ColtsBlueFL]

2 hours ago, jvan1973 said:

And mayock says there are 12 interior d lineman worthy of a first round grade.     

 

I would put up the past and present credentials of Brandt, Kirwan and Landry any day and twice on Sunday over Mayock.

 

Gil Brandt, the vice president of player personnel for the Cowboys from 1960 to 1989.  His innovative management and personnel systems are standard operating procedure today for many teams at the professional and collegiate levels nationwide. "Gil Brandt is to the draft what Dick Clark used to be to New Year's Eve -- an American institution," said Duke head coach David Cutcliffe. "Gil was the guy who went to the smaller colleges, finding diamonds in the rough. He spoke about evaluating character and making that count. That's a lost art." General managers, coaches and scouts confide in Brandt, who is also an analyst for NFL SIRIUS Radio and NFL.com, providing prospect evaluations as if he were still scouting.
"Once a scout always a scout," Brandt said. "Evaluating players is such a fascinating thing."

 

Pat Kirwan has become one of the nation’s most well-respected NFL analysts. He has been around the league since 1972, serving in a variety of roles in over 20 years in the league. He was a scout for the Cardinals and Buccaneers, a coach for the Jets as well as the team's Director of Player Administration where he negotiated contracts and managed the team's salary cap. He is the author of Take Your Eye Off the Ball (and the updated TYEOTB 2.0): How to Watch Football by Knowing Where to Look, and the host of Sirius NFL Radio's Moving the Chains. The Real Football Network was founded upon Pat Kirwan’s varied NFL experience, educational approach, and deep relationships within the league, and the Real Football Network offers insights not found anywhere else.

 

Chris Landry - Former NFL team scout, now freelance scout. He ran one of the early, scaled-down versions of the NFL Scouting Combine and worked for National Football Scouting where he built a reputation as a thorough and intelligent purveyor of talent.  "Chris is very knowledgeable, he understands what it takes to play in the league," said Dan Shonka, a former co-worker and scout for 25 years for the Eagles, Chiefs and Washington. "He understands the nuances, the critical factors and the specifics of each position. He certainly knows what he's talking about.
"He's been around a long time and that usually means you know what you are talking about. There's a whole generation of (younger) scouts out there who don't know what the hell they're doing."

 

 Now, I like Mike Mayock.  And he was player for BC, then got out of football completely for 20 years. He had learned to study film in his basement with his dad as a kid, but was never a scout or coach. Then did small market media until the NFL came to him about being a draft analyst.  I think he has a decent eye for talent, notalble QB's.  But he is not even in range of Kirwan, let alone Brandt.