Colts Free Agency Grievances Thread [Mega-merge]

[Cynjin]

6 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

When it gets to the point where actually start believing that you know better than the GM,  that you know which players are better and how much talent is available in Free Agency and how much in the draft....   when you really think you know more than the GM --- then you just need to STOP and get a grip.

 

You don't.     I don't.     Superman doesn't.   Dustin doesn't.    No one here does.

 

It's one thing to talk a little smack,  it's another to literally think you know more.....

 

That's one internet habit to break..........

 

Just saying.....

 

 

 

Unfortunately, there appears to be people on this board that think they could fairly easily go from their job to NFL GM.

[NewColtsFan]

6 minutes ago, Cynjin said:

 

Unfortunately, there appears to be people on this board that think they could fairly easily go from their job to NFL GM.

 

Yup.....     sometimes it's hard NOT to notice those folks....

 

They're pretty amazing.....

 

If only the real world were as obvious and easy as they see it.....

 

 

[Yoshinator]

18 minutes ago, Cynjin said:

 

Oh I get that, but that was not the point of the poster I was responding to.  He was saying that there are "armchair GMs" that could do as good a job as Grigson, that is what I am saying is ridiculous.

Yeah, I know it's ridiculous, you are correct. That particular post just had everything in it that was annoying with the whole "armchair qb" argument, when it's irrelevent how good we are as GM's and we should be on the same side as other Colts fans while Grigson should be worrying about being better than 31 other GM's. That's the goal, for Grigson to outsmart and outmanage 31 other GM's, not us on these forums, and field a team that can win the SB.

[esmort]

1 hour ago, Cynjin said:

 

Oh I get that, but that was not the point of the poster I was responding to.  He was saying that there are "armchair GMs" that could do as good a job as Grigson, that is what I am saying is ridiculous.

 

It is ridiculous that you think no one not currently associated with the NFL could do the job of GM ... out of all the people doing jobs far more complex none could do Grigson's job ... you need to get out more.  What do you think he does that is so difficult that no one else can do it?  

 

They draft with the advice of a scouting department and the coaching staff.  They negotiate contracts with help from the cap personnel and other executives, etc ...  They hire and fire staff.  They make player personnel decisions with significant input from coaches. They develop a strategy to build a successful sustainable program.

 

Which of these things do you think a high level executive, successful lawyer, etc, etc  .... who played football at a high college level (there are a lot of those btw) so many of them will have a high football IQ would be unable to do with the access to the same advisory and football resources that Grigson has access too? 

 

If you were talking someone who is both coach and GM like Belichick I would agree very few people not associated with NFL could do it.  But a run of the mill GM with no coaching duties isn't that special and the required skills aren't significantly different then running any other large business. 

 

1 hour ago, Cynjin said:

 

Unfortunately, there appears to be people on this board that think they could fairly easily go from their job to NFL GM.

 

Apparently you also have difficulty with reading comprehension since I specifically said in more than one post I was not talking about myself.

 

The fact that you believe that pathetic "armchair gm" cliche insult people like to use to defend criticism of against GMs, executive's, coaches, etc .. says something about your logical reasoning skills.

[crazycolt1]

3 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

Yup.....     sometimes it's hard NOT to notice those folks....

 

They're pretty amazing.....

 

If only the real world were as obvious and easy as they see it.....

 

 

Most seem to forget there is more to the job of being a GM than finding players. Dealing with agents is not an easy thing. Not only are you trying to sign a player you are fighting the agent who wants every cent he can get not only for the player but for himself. Then there is the coaches. GMs are in charge of hiring and firing coaches and it's their responsibility to put the coaching team together. Some say Grigson has done little? Think again.

[Goatface Killah]

10 hours ago, esmort said:

 

They believe it because it is true.  NFL GM is not one of top most complex jobs in the world, not even close.

 

 

I could care less about disrespecting Grigson ... but I would also like to see an experiment like that; because i think if given access to the same resources there would be a lot of people do equally as well or better than many current GMs.

 

 

 

I am sure there have been suggestions made (not going to go search the posts), but unlike coaches who are known by many fans, the executives within the various organizations aren't as well known and their actual duties within that role often aren't available to fans, so it is much harder for a fan to know the options.

 

 

Most fans are aware of what the Colts have accomplished since Grigson has arrived ,,, they are also aware that he walked into an elite QB in one of the worst divisions in the NFL and that instead of having a team that should be rebuilt and ready to contend for the SB for the next several years we wasted Luck's rookie contract and now are once again on a "mini/partial rebuild". Much do to Grigson's incompetence. 

 

 

I don't expect him to have mastered it, but competent would be good.  The Colts with Manning underachieved; I would hate for them to make similar mistakes with Luck's career but seems like that's the track we may be on. 

It doesn't have to be one of the most complex jobs on earth. But I bet its a lot more complex than 100% of the jobs that the people who suggest they could just step in and build a SB team right off the jump are doing.

 

Again, you have no idea how hard it is to win a Super Bowl. You have no clue how good you have to be to beat Bill Belichick on his homefield in the cold of January.

 

If going to two SB's is underachieving, I'll take it. I don't care what you or Jim Irsay think. Jim Irsay couldn't do it either btw, and he's living proof of what I'm talking about. He grew up around the NFL and has been everything from a ball boy to a GM himself. The best thing he ever did was give that up and hand it over to someone qualified to do the job and the organization immediately got better.

 

No, a fan could not do better. You don't even know what the job entails. You don't even know who the candidates are and what makes them candidates in the first place. You don't know the techniques involved in the game of football on that level. You don't even know what to look for in a NFL caliber player. You couldnt possibly have any qualifications to put on a resume that would get anyone to even consider you as a candidate. You don't know crap by comparison to the worst GM in the league. I dont either. To think you do, is pure arrogance.

 

The easiest thing in the world is to sit back and say you can do better, without ever having to back up your big mouth. Everyone thinks they are an expert at everything these days, but the truly intelligent people, who would even have a chance in hell of learning how to do it, understand their limitations and have the humility to respect the job and put in the time to learn what they need to know. This isn't fanduel. This isn't FANTASY football, its the real thing.

 

Just the fact that you expect Andrew Luck to win a SB on his rookie contract, while his team has gone through a full rebuild just goes to show you that you have no clue at the magnitude of the accomplishment you are talking about. And the fact you * on what Manning accomplished while he was here shows you don't even appreciate the people who have. You would have no shot. Sorry but its the truth.

[NewColtsFan]

59 minutes ago, crazycolt1 said:

Most seem to forget there is more to the job of being a GM than finding players. Dealing with agents is not an easy thing. Not only are you trying to sign a player you are fighting the agent who wants every cent he can get not only for the player but for himself. Then there is the coaches. GMs are in charge of hiring and firing coaches and it's their responsibility to put the coaching team together. Some say Grigson has done little? Think again.

 

I don't think this is true.   I think with most teams the head coach gets to hire his coaching staff.   Sure, the GM gets some input depending on who the HC is and who the assistant is being hired,   but on balance,  I think most HC's get the coaches they want.   

 

At least,  that's always been my understanding of things... 

[Gabriel Alexander Morillo]

17 hours ago, BOTT said:

Please tell me the pro wrestling part is true......

 

12 hours ago, corgi said:

Indeed it is.

Are we talking WWE, Sumo, Greco-Roman, Oil or what?

[crazycolt1]

8 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

I don't think this is true.   I think with most teams the head coach gets to hire his coaching staff.   Sure, the GM gets some input depending on who the HC is and who the assistant is being hired,   but on balance,  I think most HC's get the coaches they want.   

 

At least,  that's always been my understanding of things... 

With few exceptions to the rule the GM does the hiring and firing of coaches including the head coach. The GM may sway his decision on who the head coach wants but it him who makes the final choice. The GM is 2nd only to the owner as far as the hiring and firing aspect of the team.

[NewColtsFan]

2 minutes ago, crazycolt1 said:

With few exceptions to the rule the GM does the hiring and firing of coaches including the head coach. The GM may sway his decision on who the head coach wants but it him who makes the final choice. The GM is 2nd only to the owner as far as the hiring and firing aspect of the team.

 

Try this exercise.....

 

Go thru the list of the 32 head coaches.     See which HC's you think made their own choices,  and which GM's made the choices for the team.   

 

If Grigson made a lot of choices for the Colts it's because Pagano was a first time HC and didn't have leverage.

 

But I think for coaches who have leverage or experience they get the choice of who they want.    The GM may get some input,   but a good HC gets his candidates.    

[crazycolt1]

1 minute ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

Try this exercise.....

 

Go thru the list of the 32 head coaches.     See which HC's you think made their own choices,  and which GM's made the choices for the team.   

 

If Grigson made a lot of choices for the Colts it's because Pagano was a first time HC and didn't have leverage.

 

But I think for coaches who have leverage or experience they get the choice of who they want.    The GM may get some input,   but a good HC gets his candidates.    

This is not a debatable thing. The GM does the hiring and the firing. He may hire who ever the head coach or even the owner wants but it is him who does the hiring and firing. If the head coach is the active GM then yes, he does the hiring and firing. I don't understand why you are disagreeing with this. You are using a technical issue to debate a none debatable issue.

[NewColtsFan]

10 minutes ago, crazycolt1 said:

This is not a debatable thing. The GM does the hiring and the firing. He may hire who ever the head coach or even the owner wants but it is him who does the hiring and firing. If the head coach is the active GM then yes, he does the hiring and firing. I don't understand why you are disagreeing with this. You are using a technical issue to debate a none debatable issue.

 

Now we're getting into semantics....

 

If the HC says to the GM "I want to fire this coach"...  and the GM wants to be the hatchet guy -- fine.

 

But the call came from the HC.    And that's all that matters.

 

I was listening to NFL radio today....   apparently Buddy Ryan took his own sweet time and just today decided he didn't like his DL coach so he fired the guy whose last name is Dunbar.     The story says Buddy did it,  not the GM.

 

But I don't what you think isn't debatable?     Of course it is.    You think Pete Carroll didn't hire his staff in Seattle?      You think Jim Harbaugh didn't hire his staff at SF?     You think Buddy Ryan didn't hire his staff in Buffalo?  You think Jeff Fisher didn't hire his staff in St. Louis?    Andy Reid in KC?   Mike McCarthy at Green Bay?  John Fox in Chicago?    Sean Peyton in New Orleans?   Gary Kubiak in Denver?    

 

Shall I go on?   

 

If you're an experienced coach and/or you've got leverage,  you get to hire your guys.   If you want to get technical that the GM faxes the paper work to the agent -- fine,  but that's purely administrative.  

 

HC's almost always get the staff they want.   A gm might make recommendations here and there,  but coaches typically hire who they want.     You're right -- it's not debatable.

 

 

[crazycolt1]

18 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

Now we're getting into semantics....

 

If the HC says to the GM "I want to fire this coach"...  and the GM wants to be the hatchet guy -- fine.

 

But the call came from the HC.    And that's all that matters.

 

I was listening to NFL radio today....   apparently Buddy Ryan took his own sweet time and just today decided he didn't like his DL coach so he fired the guy whose last name is Dunbar.     The story says Buddy did it,  not the GM.

 

But I don't what you think isn't debatable?     Of course it is.    You think Pete Carroll didn't hire his staff in Seattle?      You think Jim Harbaugh didn't hire his staff at SF?     You think Buddy Ryan didn't hire his staff in Buffalo?  You think Jeff Fisher didn't hire his staff in St. Louis?    Andy Reid in KC?   Mike McCarthy at Green Bay?  John Fox in Chicago?    Sean Peyton in New Orleans?

 

Shall I go on?   

 

If you're an experienced coach and/or you've got leverage,  you get to hire your guys.   If you want to get technical that the GM faxes the paper work to the agent -- fine,  but that's purely administrative.  

 

HC's almost always get the staff they want.   A gm might make recommendations here and there,  but coaches typically hire who they want.     You're right -- it's not debatable.

 

 

A head coach does not hire and fire. That falls onto the GM. A head coach may have the power to do a lot of things but not the hiring and firing process. A head coach does not do the negotiations for the contacts to hire and fire. That is the GM or his staff with the GM making the finale say so. General manager- look up the definition and how it relates to the NFL. A head coach may want someone hired or fired but if the GM does not do it, there is nothing the head coach can do. The head coach may go over the GMs head directly to the owner and may or may not get his way. The head coach does not have the authority to tell a GM who to hire and fire. Ahead coach may get who they want but it still comes down to the GM going through the process of the hiring and or firing.

[NewColtsFan]

8 minutes ago, crazycolt1 said:

A head coach does not hire and fire. That falls onto the GM. A head coach may have the power to do a lot of things but not the hiring and firing process. A head coach does not do the negotiations for the contacts to hire and fire. That is the GM or his staff with the GM making the finale say so. General manager- look up the definition and how it relates to the NFL. A head coach may want someone hired or fired but if the GM does not do it, there is nothing the head coach can do. The head coach may go over the GMs head directly to the owner and may or may not get his way. The head coach does not have the authority to tell a GM who to hire and fire. Ahead coach may get who they want but it still comes down to the GM going through the process.

 

Now, in addition to playing the semantics game,  you're trying to be too clever by half.

 

The Head Coach picks his staff.     The GM may negotiate contracts "hiring" and when the head coach decides to fire the coach,  the GM may tell the coach what benefits he gets as he leaves -- but typically the decision is the HC's.      Period.

 

Go to ESPN.com....  click on there NFL page and then go to the Buffalo Bills page...   all the info released about Buddy Ryan firing his DL coach Karl Dunbar.    There's Buddy quoting about his decision to fire the guy.   Don't take my word for it...   it's right there on the ESPN page for the Buffalo Bills.     There were at least three different stories and/or tweets quoting Ryan.

 

Here:  I'll provide it for you.

 

http://espn.go.com/nfl/team/_/name/buf/buffalo-bills

 

If a HC wants an assistant fired and GM doesn't do it --- there's going to be an ugly fight in the front office, and depending on who the HC is,  don't bet on the GM winning.    If a HC wants an assistant fired a good GM will do it -- period.   

 

You're playing games here with your post.    You really are.    You've given me nothing but opinions.   I've now laid out example after example and I've even pointed to the Buffalo example.      Sorry,  but this is still not debatable.

 

[crazycolt1]

1 minute ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

Now, in addition to playing the semantics game,  you're trying to be too clever by half.

 

The Head Coach picks his staff.     The GM may negotiate contracts "hiring" and when the head coach decides to fire the coach,  the GM may tell the coach what benefits he gets as he leaves -- but typically the decision is the HC's.      Period.

 

Go to ESPN.com....  click on there NFL page and then go to the Buffalo Bills page...   all the info released about Buddy Ryan firing his DL coach Karl Dunbar.    There's Buddy quoting about his decision to fire the guy.   Don't take my word for it...   it's right there on the ESPN page for the Buffalo Bills.     There were at least three different stories and/or tweets quoting Ryan.

 

If a HC wants an assistant fired and GM doesn't do it --- there's going to be an ugly fight in the front office, and depending on who the HC is,  don't bet on the GM winning.    If a HC wants an assistant fired a good GM will do it -- period.   

 

You're playing games here with your post.    You really are.    You've given me nothing but opinions.   I've now laid out example after example and I've even pointed to the Buffalo example.      Sorry,  but this is still not debatable.

 

So you are taking one example and now it is the way things are done?  You just said if the head coach wants something done, the GM does it. Not the head coach. The bottom line it is the GM who hires and fires. Look up the definition of general manager. It's pretty simple.

[NewColtsFan]

1 minute ago, crazycolt1 said:

So you are taking one example and now it is the way things are done?  You just said if the head coach wants something done, the GM does it. Not the head coach. The bottom line it is the GM who hires and fires. Look up the definition of general manager. It's pretty simple.

 

You're not winning this argument.     As I've already said and clearly demonstrated,  what a GM does in this regard is administrative,  not the decision making.     

 

It's not unheard of for a GM to fire an assistant.    The GM has the right.    But it's more the exception to the rule. The rule is the decision for hiring and firing goes to the HC.      Everything else is administrative.

 

And you're still trying to be cute...    "Look up the definition of a general manager"     You know there's no such place to look it up -- if there was,  you'd simply link it here for anyone to see........     Besides,  there's no bible.  Every situation is different.     But the generally accepted way on the professional level is the coach hire and fires his staff.     If a coach isn't doing that,  he's a new coach with no leverage and a very controlling GM.    Not unprecedented,  but not the norm.    In fact,  far from it. 

 

There's one of us here who covered sports professionally for 30 years....   and it wasn't you.    Sorry.

 

[crazycolt1]

3 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

You're not winning this argument.     As I've already said and clearly demonstrated,  what a GM does in this regard is administrative,  not the decision making.     

 

It's not unheard of for a GM to fire an assistant.    The GM has the right.    But it's more the exception to the rule. The rule is the decision for hiring and firing goes to the HC.      Everything else is administrative.

 

And you're still trying to be cute...    "Look up the definition of a general manager"     You know there's no such place to look it up -- if there was,  you'd simply link it here for anyone to see........     Besides,  there's no bible.  Every situation is different.     But the generally accepted way on the professional level is the coach hire and fires his staff.     If a coach isn't doing that,  he's a new coach with no leverage and a very controlling GM.    Not unprecedented,  but not the norm.    In fact,  far from it. 

 

There's one of us here who covered sports professionally for 30 years....   and it wasn't you.    Sorry.

 

There is no argument. The GM does the hiring and firing. It is his responsibility. General manager in the NFL- The GM is normally the person who does the hiring and firing within the organization. He is normally the one who hire and fires the coaching staff including the head coach. That IS the definition. Look it up. It would seem for someone with your background as you say, you know this. You are being impossible with your argumentative attitude to go any farther with this. Done. Good day.

[NewColtsFan]

14 minutes ago, crazycolt1 said:

There is no argument. The GM does the hiring and firing. It is his responsibility. General manager in the NFL- The GM is normally the person who does the hiring and firing within the organization. He is normally the one who hire and fires the coaching staff including the head coach. That IS the definition. Look it up. It would seem for someone with your background as you say, you know this. You are being impossible with your argumentative attitude to go any farther with this. Done. Good day.

 

Look it up ---- WHERE?      

 

I don't have to look it up.    I've been right in the middle of it for decades.    I've observed it since I've left the media business.     Nothing has changed.

 

Generally speaking,  the coach hires and fires his staff.   I'm sure a GM gets input,  but it's mostly that.   What the GM does do is negotiate the deal.    He decides how much the coordinators make,  how much the assistants make and how much the training staff makes.    I'm talking salary and all the perks that go with it.   The ultimate numbers come down from the owner.    But the GM does the negotiating with the agent or coach.    But typically the coach hires and fires his staff.     Any coach who isn't hiring and firing his staff is either a first time head coach with no leverage and/or one with a very hands-on, very controlling GM.     

 

A good GM hires a head coach expecting that the coach knows who he wants to hire.   The coach typically has been around long enough to know who he wants and doesn't want.    A GM might make a recommendation on an assistant,  but the if the coach doesn't want that assistant,  no good GM is going to force that assistant upon a coach.

 

You may be a very smart, very knowledgeable fan,  but you've backed yourself into a corner.   You're playing a losing hand.     You're doubling-down on a wrong position.     

 

Just out of curiosity....    why do YOU get to claim that I'm the one being argumentative.    You've given me zero facts and tons of opinions.     But that's it.    And I'm the one who has covered this sport for 30 years and have followed it for nearly 50 years.    Why isn't it YOU that's being argumentative?    I've got the facts on my side.

 

I've addressed all your points....   and you've only given me your opinion.    Meanwhile, I've given you too many examples to count now.     It's nearly 130a where I am...    not sure where you are,  but I'm off to sleep... tomorrow is another day....

 

[corgi]

5 hours ago, Gabriel Alexander Morillo said:

 

Are we talking WWE, Sumo, Greco-Roman, Oil or what?

Pro wrestling. Like WWE, but I work on the independent circuit. 

[Cynjin]

8 hours ago, esmort said:

 

It is ridiculous that you think no one not currently associated with the NFL could do the job of GM ... out of all the people doing jobs far more complex none could do Grigson's job ... you need to get out more.  What do you think he does that is so difficult that no one else can do it?  

 

They draft with the advice of a scouting department and the coaching staff.  They negotiate contracts with help from the cap personnel and other executives, etc ...  They hire and fire staff.  They make player personnel decisions with significant input from coaches. They develop a strategy to build a successful sustainable program.

 

Which of these things do you think a high level executive, successful lawyer, etc, etc  .... who played football at a high college level (there are a lot of those btw) so many of them will have a high football IQ would be unable to do with the access to the same advisory and football resources that Grigson has access too? 

 

If you were talking someone who is both coach and GM like Belichick I would agree very few people not associated with NFL could do it.  But a run of the mill GM with no coaching duties isn't that special and the required skills aren't significantly different then running any other large business. 

 

 

Apparently you also have difficulty with reading comprehension since I specifically said in more than one post I was not talking about myself.

 

The fact that you believe that pathetic "armchair gm" cliche insult people like to use to defend criticism of against GMs, executive's, coaches, etc .. says something about your logical reasoning skills.

 

The fact that you appear to believe that a lawyer or executive with college football experience could fairly easily transition into a NFL GM position is stunning.  By the way how many of those types are actually on this message board?  Also, if being a "run of the mill GM with no coaching duties" is not that special, why are they paid so well?

 

You're the one that brought up the term Armchair GM, and somehow you seem to think that I am using it to insult people, I'm not sure where you get that from.

 

I also do not have a reading comprehension problem since I did not say you were referring to yourself.

[OffensivelyPC]

On 3/12/2016 at 9:17 PM, corgi said:

Maybe I'm not as upset as a lot of you because I'm married, have a kid, have a career, do pro wrestling on the side...but no matter your situation calm down. It's a game that has no effect on your day to day life. If the Colts are trash for the next decade your life will be exactly the same. I refuse to get bent out of shape over free agency, the draft, wins or loses, or the Colts in general.

Speaking of the kid, how's that coming along. Running you ragged yet? Mine is lol.

[corgi]

3 hours ago, OffensivelyPC said:

Speaking of the kid, how's that coming along. Running you ragged yet? Mine is lol.

Yup, he is a climber so he gives me several near heart attacks daily. My wife and I work different shifts, so it's just me and him from 4:30 until he goes to sleep at night. Long days lol. Hope everything is going well with your kid!

[OffensivelyPC]

4 hours ago, corgi said:

Yup, he is a climber so he gives me several near heart attacks daily. My wife and I work different shifts, so it's just me and him from 4:30 until he goes to sleep at night. Long days lol. Hope everything is going well with your kid!

She is a climber as well.  She's already starting to do forward rolls and jumping up and down and climbing on everything, so we're going to get her tumbling lessons this summer.  Although, we're starting to enter the terrible 2's where she think she's running the house.

[SilentHill]

I could easily handle being a NFL GM, but you all knew that already

 

I would also make a great president

[Indeee]

I basically set back and kept thinking at some point, something positive and clear towards our off season would eventually surface, however this is getting really weird.

 

If this whole thing has to do with Lucks Contract then what are we waiting for? Sign him to whatever it is already

 

Also, why isn't there any scheduled visits from other players lined up, I mean I'm hearing nothing to this point.

 

I'm starting to wonder if there's something else at work here, almost like... "Hey Chuck, if you think you're such a good coach, let's see you coach up a bunch of crappy players".

 

Why sign Tolzien? What was wrong with Freeman? Was it that Tolzien was the cheapest available?

 

I'm seriously confused.. there is no way we will fill all our holes enough to compete for a SB with this draft. Did Irsay tell them they had 4 years to win a SB? I don't get what's going on here...

 

 

[Nesjan3]

Grigson is confident in our team as it is and will look to the draft to improve its that simple. whether or not it will work IMO i highly doubt it, we may be looking for a new GM next year, but im being optimistic now and i hope whatever the FO is doing will work out

[DougDew]

With all of the changes made to the positional coaches, its pretty obvious the front office thinks the coaching staff was a big problem.  And Luck's injury.....

[Bluefire4]

12 minutes ago, Indeee said:

I basically set back and kept thinking at some point, something positive and clear towards our off season would eventually surface, however this is getting really weird.

 

If this whole thing has to do with Lucks Contract then what are we waiting for? Sign him to whatever it is already

 

Also, why isn't there any scheduled visits from other players lined up, I mean I'm hearing nothing to this point.

 

I'm starting to wonder if there's something else at work here, almost like... "Hey Chuck, if you think you're such a good coach, let's see you coach up a bunch of crappy players".

 

Why sign Tolzien? What was wrong with Freeman? Was it that Tolzien was the cheapest available?

 

I'm seriously confused.. there is no way we will fill all our holes enough to compete for a SB with this draft. Did Irsay tell them they had 4 years to win a SB? I don't get what's going on here...

 

 

We're not going for the super bowl this year in my opinion. I think Grigson believes this team is too far away from a championship to bring more heavy contracts on this year. He let Freeman go so he can have more compensatory picks next season. 

[Boiler_Colt]

Grigson has been preaching the importance of comp picks for a while. Now starting next year you can trade them.

[BProland85]

It also seems a little odd to me that Indy all of a sudden has zero cap space to bring anyone, anyone at all, into the fold.

 

If Grigson would have simply cut D'Qwell and resigned Freeman for his 4-5 mil per year, that right there would save some cap space. And from what I understood, they had a little over 30 mil in cap space after cutting Andre, Bjoern, and getting pay cuts from Cole and Jones. As long as they don't give Luck an insane contract, and rather offer him a very fair deal (22-23 mil per year), they should have had enough space to bring in a few starters for low cost deals (Wisnewski, Laurenaitus, resigning Freeman as a few examples).

[BProland85]

21 minutes ago, Boiler_Colt said:

Grigson has been preaching the importance of comp picks for a while. Now starting next year you can trade them.

 

Its not like Grigson is gonna get a boatload of comp picks next year. The highest they might get is a 4th for Fleener. Freeman might only get Indy a 6th since he signed for a lower cost deal.

[The Brazilian Ninja]

When does teams will be able to sign players and not lose comp. picks?

[esmort]

13 hours ago, Cynjin said:

 

The fact that you appear to believe that a lawyer or executive with college football experience could fairly easily transition into a NFL GM position is stunning.

 

You are understating my position a bit. You acting like I said every McDonald's manager and strip mall ambulance chasing lawyer could do it.  When in reality I think I said (or insinuated) that some of the more intelligent people in high level positions/careers would be able to make the transition. 

 

13 hours ago, Cynjin said:

 

 By the way how many of those types are actually on this message board?  

 

I don't know everyone on this message board so I can't attest to how many there are; and I also never said they had to be from this specific board. There are hundreds of football discussion boards.

 

13 hours ago, Cynjin said:

 

Also, if being a "run of the mill GM with no coaching duties" is not that special, why are they paid so well?

 

That was a comparison to other executives in other industries, and many executives (as well as other careers) pay at that level or more. 

 

13 hours ago, Cynjin said:

 

You're the one that brought up the term Armchair GM, and somehow you seem to think that I am using it to insult people, I'm not sure where you get that from.

 

I am not going to go searching to see if you have ever used the exact term, but you have made comments that amount to same sentiment even if you used different phrasing.

 

13 hours ago, Cynjin said:

 

I also do not have a reading comprehension problem since I did not say you were referring to yourself.

 

On 3/14/2016 at 10:06 PM, Cynjin said:

Unfortunately, there appears to be people on this board that think they could fairly easily go from their job to NFL GM.

 

Given the conversation we were having and taking other posts into account I think most people in my place would assume you were referring to them ... if I indeed inferred incorrectly that's my mistake,

[Bluefire4]

31 minutes ago, The Brazilian Ninja said:

When does teams will be able to sign players and not lose comp. picks?

I think after the draft.

[Bluefire4]

33 minutes ago, BProland85 said:

 

Its not like Grigson is gonna get a boatload of comp picks next year. The highest they might get is a 4th for Fleener. Freeman might only get Indy a 6th since he signed for a lower cost deal.

We could get a 4th, 6th, and 7th next year that will all be tradable. I think Luck gets a 24-26 million per year deal with a huge number this year.. probably around 28-29 million cap hit the first year. 

[esmort]

20 hours ago, GoatBeard said:

It doesn't have to be one of the most complex jobs on earth. But I bet its a lot more complex than 100% of the jobs that the people who suggest they could just step in and build a SB team right off the jump are doing.

 

 

You would lose that bet about complexity of jobs.  And I never said anything about them being able to build a SB team right off the bat you just felt like adding that part for some reason. 

 

20 hours ago, GoatBeard said:

 

Again, you have no idea how hard it is to win a Super Bowl. You have no clue how good you have to be to beat Bill Belichick on his homefield in the cold of January.

 

Irrelevant to the discussion you jumped into.

 

20 hours ago, GoatBeard said:

 

If going to two SB's is underachieving, I'll take it. I don't care what you or Jim Irsay think. Jim Irsay couldn't do it either btw, and he's living proof of what I'm talking about. He grew up around the NFL and has been everything from a ball boy to a GM himself. The best thing he ever did was give that up and hand it over to someone qualified to do the job and the organization immediately got better.

 

Two SB's with 1 win during all of Peyton's career with the other HOF pieces we had in place is underachieving. Feel free to be content with low expectations.  Not quite sure how this pertains to the discussion you jumped into, maybe I forgot something though.

 

20 hours ago, GoatBeard said:

No, a fan could not do better. You don't even know what the job entails. You don't even know who the candidates are and what makes them candidates in the first place. You don't know the techniques involved in the game of football on that level. You don't even know what to look for in a NFL caliber player. You couldnt possibly have any qualifications to put on a resume that would get anyone to even consider you as a candidate. You don't know crap by comparison to the worst GM in the league. I dont either. To think you do, is pure arrogance.

 

Yes there are fans who could do as well as Grigson.  At this point it seems like you jumped into a debate without even reading what has been said ... I said more than once "I was not saying "I" could do it", only that there are very smart people with equally complex jobs who have high level football experience and IQ that happen to work in other professions that could do it. 

 

20 hours ago, GoatBeard said:

 

The easiest thing in the world is to sit back and say you can do better, without ever having to back up your big mouth. Everyone thinks they are an expert at everything these days, but the truly intelligent people, who would even have a chance in hell of learning how to do it, understand their limitations and have the humility to respect the job and put in the time to learn what they need to know. This isn't fanduel. This isn't FANTASY football, its the real thing.

 

Again I never said me ... but preach on ... lol 

 

20 hours ago, GoatBeard said:

 

Just the fact that you expect Andrew Luck to win a SB on his rookie contract, while his team has gone through a full rebuild just goes to show you that you have no clue at the magnitude of the accomplishment you are talking about. And the fact you * on what Manning accomplished while he was here shows you don't even appreciate the people who have. You would have no shot. Sorry but its the truth.

 

Get off your soapbox.  Also you might want to make sure you have actually read and comprehended the conversation next time before you jump in and give some ridiculous sanctimonious lecture. 

[BProland85]

22 minutes ago, Bluefire4 said:

We could get a 4th, 6th, and 7th next year that will all be tradable. I think Luck gets a 24-26 million per year deal with a huge number this year.. probably around 28-29 million cap hit the first year. 

 

That would be insane and honestly sort of reckless to throw all that money at him at this point in his career. If he had already won a Superbowl I could see it, but if he wants to win a championship, I wouldn't want to see him get a contract like that. 23 mil per year is very fair, since Russell Wilson who has lead his team to two Superbowls, is getting paid 21 mil per year.

[COLTS449]

What's crazy is we could drastically improve our team right now, and not only that, but give us more options come draft day. We could sign Junior Galette, Patrick Robinson, and Stefen Wisniewski. Galette would give us the premier pass rusher we need. Robinson is not a bad CB by any means, and Wisniewski is a solid starting C who is best in pass pro. Then we could draft a pass rusher like Spence, Floyd, or Lawson at 18. A CB like Jackson, Apple, or Alexander, a NT like Billings. Or even a Guard like Whitehair. Its looking like Spence may fall to the 2nd round or later so just think how good our team could possibly be with those 3 signings and a draft that gives us William Jackson, Noah Spence, and Josh Garnett.

[COLTS449]

And I don't know what they expect from Cole. He was horrid last year and probably wont be any better this coming season. I had rather have Chris Long instead of him. Chris Long is way more likely to be productive and put up 8-10 sacks than Trent Cole. Cole just sucks at this point.

[BOTT]

22 hours ago, GoatBeard said:

It doesn't have to be one of the most complex jobs on earth. But I bet its a lot more complex than 100% of the jobs that the people who suggest they could just step in and build a SB team right off the jump are doing.

 

Again, you have no idea how hard it is to win a Super Bowl. You have no clue how good you have to be to beat Bill Belichick on his homefield in the cold of January.

 

If going to two SB's is underachieving, I'll take it. I don't care what you or Jim Irsay think. Jim Irsay couldn't do it either btw, and he's living proof of what I'm talking about. He grew up around the NFL and has been everything from a ball boy to a GM himself. The best thing he ever did was give that up and hand it over to someone qualified to do the job and the organization immediately got better.

 

No, a fan could not do better. You don't even know what the job entails. You don't even know who the candidates are and what makes them candidates in the first place. You don't know the techniques involved in the game of football on that level. You don't even know what to look for in a NFL caliber player. You couldnt possibly have any qualifications to put on a resume that would get anyone to even consider you as a candidate. You don't know crap by comparison to the worst GM in the league. I dont either. To think you do, is pure arrogance.

 

The easiest thing in the world is to sit back and say you can do better, without ever having to back up your big mouth. Everyone thinks they are an expert at everything these days, but the truly intelligent people, who would even have a chance in hell of learning how to do it, understand their limitations and have the humility to respect the job and put in the time to learn what they need to know. This isn't fanduel. This isn't FANTASY football, its the real thing.

 

Just the fact that you expect Andrew Luck to win a SB on his rookie contract, while his team has gone through a full rebuild just goes to show you that you have no clue at the magnitude of the accomplishment you are talking about. And the fact you * on what Manning accomplished while he was here shows you don't even appreciate the people who have. You would have no shot. Sorry but its the truth.

You guys build up these GM's to be more than they are.  Yes, some are very intelligent and great at their jobs.  But a lot of these guys are just....guys.   Ex college jocks who weren't good enough for the pros and went into scouting and worked their way up.

The job entails more than talent evaluation, obviously.....but if you can't evaluate talent you won't have the job for long.  Yes, they know far more about football than fans, but talent evaluation is a tricky thing that doesn't always seem to go hand in hand with pure football knowledge.  I wouldn't let Mike Holmgren pick the roster of my nephew's pee wee team.