I just heard...

[ColtStronger]

Colts have a lower YPC this year than last year with Trent Richardson starting!  Furthermore, people wanted to always bash him, yet EVERYBODY is now in agreement of the OL being total garbage!  It has never really been addressed since the Grigson era began...

 

Could it be?  Perhaps?  Maybe?  The OL (and the man responsible for acquiring talent) is to blame for the Colts lack of rush game?  I'm not saying Trent was a world beater, but you must fill the whole with before planting the grass seed!  I said it since day 1, "You can't blame the running backs for bad YPC if you don't have a OL to block for them"!

 

Furthermore (only speculating), say we did have a somewhat solid OL.  That would open up the pass game, in which we had an extremely disappointing season in the air considering us having arguably the best WR corp in the league.  Stemming from that our defense wouldn't have been put in a bind EVERY game, from a slacking offense that commits penalties and turns the ball over in compromising field position.  We also would have been extending drives and not making the defense be on the field for the majority of the game.  I feel we had one of the worst TOP this season to put the icing on the cake. 

 

So, no run game, leads to no pass game.  With an underwhelming offense and a disappointing defense (normally put in a bad situation), that revolves around poor coaching/gameplan and a GM who had a hand in all of this.  Gee, let me think...  do we need to make some heads roll and make significant changes in the offseason?  I would say YES, if you ask me.  Just the fact the main 2 problems (OL and pass rush) has been our biggest problem since this staff has taken over.  I think that is more than enough reason to boot Grigson (and I hate to say it, but perhaps Pagano as well). 

 

Or we can act like the problem is still about certain players that are under performing and TRY to watch the tape and fix it for next week

[deedub75]

Richardson was garbage and a bad teammate too. Even when holes were made for him, he still would run into the defense. 

[Dustin]

The main problem is that Frank Gore is washed.

[zibby43]

You make some logical points but you're also greatly oversimplifying things.

 

Many factors contribute to the strength/weakness of a rushing attack.  Another factor is situational football (are the Colts down?)

 

Another factor is whether the deep ball has been eliminated from the offense (which it has been during Matty H's run).  If teams don't have to honor the deep threat, they can crowd the line of scrimmage with personnel.

 

And so on and so forth.  I do agree that the C, RG, and RT positions need major strengthening.

[Dustin]

1 minute ago, deedub75 said:

Richardson was garbage and a bad teammate too. Even when holes were made for him, he still would run into the defense. 

 

Yeah, and the fact that he's not even on an NFL team speaks for itself. The corpse of Steven Jackson got signed before him.

[krunk]

I don't think Gore is washed.  I just think he had no business being the starter for most of the season. Should have been a good young back leading the way with Gore splitting time.  Instead Gore was the lead back and got banged up combined with old age.  Still a good player, but shouldn't be the lead back only because of the wear and tear.

[PeterBowman]

I'm sure teams not really respecting the pass game with Luck out has played a big part too.

 

Just curious.

 

What's the Colts YPC in games when Luck played vs when Hasselbeck played?

[ColtStronger]

I'm not defending Trent, trust me!  Also, I am being a little outrageous!  However, a lot of football is situational as Zibby mentioned.  One thing is for sure, if you never establish a run game, and pose a threat it dictates ALOT about the rest of the game.  Same as how the Colts use to not be able to stop opponents rushing attacks.  They would simply line up play after play and get the ball ran down their throats.

 

You must go broader than the situation within each game though, you must look at the big picture and see who is responsible for the state of the franchise being in chaos?  Ryan Grigson played a huge role in not just acquiring players, but other coaching decisions as well.

[ColtStronger]

4 minutes ago, krunk said:

I don't think Gore is washed.  I just think he had no business being the starter for most of the season. Should have been a good young back leading the way with Gore splitting time.  Instead Gore was the lead back and got banged up combined with old age.  Still a good player, but shouldn't be the lead back only because of the wear and tear.

That's why Bradshaw was brought in.  The talent between Gore and Bradshaw can be a deadly tandem.  It just sucks they're both old, one ran out of steam, while the other can't play but a handful of games per year!

[RockThatBlue]

Yup the main problem is the o line. 

[ColtStronger]

5 minutes ago, PeterBowman said:

I'm sure teams not really respecting the pass game with Luck out has played a big part too.

 

Just curious.

 

What's the Colts YPC in games when Luck played vs when Hasselbeck played?

Great point as well!  I'm sure defenses don't respect an aging, hurting Hasselbeck like they would Luck playing well.  IDK about the YPC with and WO Luck, but I'm sure it went down dramatically.

[ColtStronger]

2 minutes ago, LuckIsAwesome said:

Yup the main problem is the o line. 

It just boggles my mind, how the FO can neglect that when it was so bad to begin with.  Seriously, if we had an above average OL, it would hide so many other flaws we could likely make it back to the AFC CG, assuming the offense was running smoothly with Luck.

[krunk]

5 minutes ago, ColtStronger said:

That's why Bradshaw was brought in.  The talent between Gore and Bradshaw can be a deadly tandem.  It just sucks they're both old, one ran out of steam, while the other can't play but a handful of games per year!

 

No I think they expected Robinson to be able to contribute more than he was, and then we had Varga go on IR which was the double whammy.  From there you are somewhat forced back into the Bradshaw pot and we all know he's only good for about a maximum of 4 games until something on his body is broken.  I said more than once on this forum that Bradshaw only gets one type of injury and that is the IR injury. He never gets anything in between.  Either he is healthy or on IR.  He never seems to get anything that will just keep him out for a game or two and then he comes back.

[Narcosys]

21 minutes ago, Dustin said:

The main problem is that Frank Gore is washed.

You're joking right? 

[Dustin]

15 minutes ago, Narcosys said:

You're joking right? 

 

I've never told a joke in my life.

[jvan1973]

48 minutes ago, ColtStronger said:

Colts have a lower YPC this year than last year with Trent Richardson starting!  Furthermore, people wanted to always bash him, yet EVERYBODY is now in agreement of the OL being total garbage!  It has never really been addressed since the Grigson era began...

 

Could it be?  Perhaps?  Maybe?  The OL (and the man responsible for acquiring talent) is to blame for the Colts lack of rush game?  I'm not saying Trent was a world beater, but you must fill the whole with before planting the grass seed!  I said it since day 1, "You can't blame the running backs for bad YPC if you don't have a OL to block for them"!

 

Furthermore (only speculating), say we did have a somewhat solid OL.  That would open up the pass game, in which we had an extremely disappointing season in the air considering us having arguably the best WR corp in the league.  Stemming from that our defense wouldn't have been put in a bind EVERY game, from a slacking offense that commits penalties and turns the ball over in compromising field position.  We also would have been extending drives and not making the defense be on the field for the majority of the game.  I feel we had one of the worst TOP this season to put the icing on the cake. 

 

So, no run game, leads to no pass game.  With an underwhelming offense and a disappointing defense (normally put in a bad situation), that revolves around poor coaching/gameplan and a GM who had a hand in all of this.  Gee, let me think...  do we need to make some heads roll and make significant changes in the offseason?  I would say YES, if you ask me.  Just the fact the main 2 problems (OL and pass rush) has been our biggest problem since this staff has taken over.  I think that is more than enough reason to boot Grigson (and I hate to say it, but perhaps Pagano as well). 

 

Or we can act like the problem is still about certain players that are under performing and TRY to watch the tape and fix it for next week

A lot of that is because we don't have luck breaking off 15 and 20 yard runs that inflate the team ypc.  Gore has a better ypc this year than Richardson had last year

[indyagent17]

I for one think the Gore still has gas in the tank, its hard to run against one of the worst lines in pro football.

 

Grigson appears to be incapable to fixing this issue over his years with the team so that is in my opinion the main reason he needs to be let go in favor of  better evaluator of talent

[Narcosys]

25 minutes ago, Dustin said:

 

I've never told a joke in my life.

He has more yards than trent, a higher ypc, and the fact that over 200 yards have been called back because of holding penalties.  He has had a 1000 yard year every year now for how long,  then he gets here and doesn't?  You think it's cause he's old and not because of the terrible line play that we have demonstrated for years?  Okay.

[DougDew]

I just heard....

 

Somebody was starting another Grigson bashing thread.

[Dustin]

17 minutes ago, Narcosys said:

He has more yards than trent, a higher ypc, and the fact that over 200 yards have been called back because of holding penalties.  He has had a 1000 yard year every year now for how long,  then he gets here and doesn't?  You think it's cause he's old and not because of the terrible line play that we have demonstrated for years?  Okay.

 

He's doing better than literally the worst starting running back in NFL history huh? He should get an all-pro nod for that.

 

And to answer your question, yes I think it's because he's old. This is literally the exact same situation with Steven Jackson and the Falcons. 

[NewColtsFan]

1 hour ago, Dustin said:

The main problem is that Frank Gore is washed.

 

The man problem is the o-line is the worst in the 4-years of Grigson.   When Gore has wholes to run through, he runs through them really well. 

 

Currently, he's banged up.    If we had a decent back-up,  the back-up would be playing.    But since we don't, Frank is taking one for the team.     Much as MH has been doing.

 

This might be the worst o-line in the NFL,  one of the worst I've seen in 50 years of watching the NFL.

 

[Dustin]

1 minute ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

The man problem is the o-line is the worst in the 4-years of Grigson.   When Gore has wholes to run through, he runs through them really well. 

 

Currently, he's banged up.    If we had a decent back-up,  the back-up would be playing.    But since we don't, Frank is taking one for the team.     Much as MH has been doing.

 

This might be the worst o-line in the NFL,  one of the worst I've seen in 50 years of watching the NFL.

 

 

When Gore has a hole to run through he trips over his own feet and falls over than bangs his hands on the ground in frustration. 

[Narcosys]

16 minutes ago, Dustin said:

 

He's doing better than literally the worst starting running back in NFL history huh? He should get an all-pro nod for that.

 

And to answer your question, yes I think it's because he's old. This is literally the exact same situation with Steven Jackson and the Falcons. 

 

frank gore is 36th out of 42 running backs with over 100 carries on the season.  Yet he is 12th on total yards this season.  There are 6 ahead of him that have a few to a couple dozen carries less than him.  You seem to be forgetting all the big runs he had that were taken back because of holding penalties.  To each his own, I don't think its his age but rather our terrible O line.  Not even AP could run behind this line.

[Mr.Debonair]

Lamar Miller needs a 

serious look

[John Waylon]

19 minutes ago, Mr.Debonair said:

Lamar Miller needs a 

serious look

 

His attitude doesn't impress me. 

 

I'd just like to point out that richardson got cast aside by the Raiders, and has barely gotten a sniff since. To say he wasn't the brunt of his own problem is laughable. 

[Jdubu]

1 hour ago, Dustin said:

 

He's doing better than literally the worst starting running back in NFL history huh? He should get an all-pro nod for that.

 

And to answer your question, yes I think it's because he's old. This is literally the exact same situation with Steven Jackson and the Falcons. 

So how would you blame Gore getting old with a team who hasn't produced a 100 yard rushing in some 48 games now? It's 85% a poor offensive line that has created no space for running backs to get through, regardless of who is running the ball. I don't like the offensive philosophy that Pep had, I don't like the scheme that the oline has run and I don't like the mess they have used as the center for 4 years now. All the coaches need walked out after two more games because this team is a wreck with or without Luck. We can use the Texans (or many teams) as a reference. They took our lunch money in our house with a back up to the back up to the back up QB. This team is broken from its leadership abilities more than its player talent. 

[ColtStronger]

19 hours ago, krunk said:

 

No I think they expected Robinson to be able to contribute more than he was, and then we had Varga go on IR which was the double whammy.  From there you are somewhat forced back into the Bradshaw pot and we all know he's only good for about a maximum of 4 games until something on his body is broken.  I said more than once on this forum that Bradshaw only gets one type of injury and that is the IR injury. He never gets anything in between.  Either he is healthy or on IR.  He never seems to get anything that will just keep him out for a game or two and then he comes back.

I know Bradshaw wasn't involved in original plans for the season.  Robinson being a flop and Varga/Ballard's injury really put us in that situation, but I don't think any of those players would have helped out increasing YPC though.  When Ahmad was in he even struggled getting going because of the OL.

[ColtStronger]

18 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

The man problem is the o-line is the worst in the 4-years of Grigson.   When Gore has wholes to run through, he runs through them really well. 

 

Currently, he's banged up.    If we had a decent back-up,  the back-up would be playing.    But since we don't, Frank is taking one for the team.     Much as MH has been doing.

 

This might be the worst o-line in the NFL,  one of the worst I've seen in 50 years of watching the NFL.

 

IDK, the first year with Luck was horrendous!  I think this line is a little better because of no Satelle (he was garbage, not that our C is good now though) and we have Mewhort now.

[ColtStronger]

18 hours ago, DougDew said:

I just heard....

 

Somebody was starting another Grigson bashing thread.

Yes, why don't you join in on the festivities

[ColtStronger]

19 hours ago, jvan1973 said:

A lot of that is because we don't have luck breaking off 15 and 20 yard runs that inflate the team ypc.  Gore has a better ypc this year than Richardson had last year

There are many variable to contribute to why our YPC is down.  The 2 main ones IMO is the OL talent and playcalling, which both affects other parts of the turnout of each game.

[Coffeedrinker]

I have not ran the numbers, but I bet if you look at the YPC with a starting lineup of AC, Mewhort, Holmes, Thornton and Reitz the RBs were averaging over 4,3 ypc, I think only one time with harrison as the starter have the Colts RBs average more than 4.0 ypc.

[Steamboat_Shaun]

These statistics are useless when your franchise QB misses more than 50% of the season.

[ColtStronger]

19 hours ago, indyagent17 said:

I for one think the Gore still has gas in the tank, its hard to run against one of the worst lines in pro football.

 

Grigson appears to be incapable to fixing this issue over his years with the team so that is in my opinion the main reason he needs to be let go in favor of  better evaluator of talent

You're right it's nothing to do with Gore, but you can't establish a run game with bad blocking.   I don't think he is  incapable of doing it.  I just think he has been overly confident in "his guys" that are there to get the job done.  Obviously it didn't work the first 2-3 years, that is why I was so baffled he picked Dorsett and then Smith in rounds 1 and 2 (only getting Good in a late round to acquire talent in the draft).  Then only getting Herremans (ex Eagle) in FA, who obviously shouldn't have ever been signed as he was inactive most of the year.  I put up with it even though I was frustrated through year 3, now I won't have a filter!

 

He overpaid Cherilus, busted on D Thomas (after even giving him a 3rd chance to make the team this season).  Other than Drafting Mewhort and Thornton (IMO, Thornton is mediocre, who Grigson thinks is better than he really is), Grigson has passed on Alex Mack and Mike Iupati in FA because he had other plans getting weapons for Luck.

 

So I don't think he is incapable, but he was merely being neglectful for 4 years now, which is totally unexceptable when you have a QB like we do in Luck.  That alone earns his one way ticket out of Indy, IMO.

[ColtStronger]

17 hours ago, Jdubu said:

So how would you blame Gore getting old with a team who hasn't produced a 100 yard rushing in some 48 games now? It's 85% a poor offensive line that has created no space for running backs to get through, regardless of who is running the ball. I don't like the offensive philosophy that Pep had, I don't like the scheme that the oline has run and I don't like the mess they have used as the center for 4 years now. All the coaches need walked out after two more games because this team is a wreck with or without Luck. We can use the Texans (or many teams) as a reference. They took our lunch money in our house with a back up to the back up to the back up QB. This team is broken from its leadership abilities more than its player talent. 

The leadership/coaching reflect the talent on the OL and ability to rush the pass.  They are the ones who put this team together, but it starts with management and trickles down.  First you must stable from the top in order for the whole team to be successful.

[Narcosys]

17 hours ago, Jdubu said:

So how would you blame Gore getting old with a team who hasn't produced a 100 yard rushing in some 48 games now? It's 85% a poor offensive line that has created no space for running backs to get through, regardless of who is running the ball. I don't like the offensive philosophy that Pep had, I don't like the scheme that the oline has run and I don't like the mess they have used as the center for 4 years now. All the coaches need walked out after two more games because this team is a wreck with or without Luck. We can use the Texans (or many teams) as a reference. They took our lunch money in our house with a back up to the back up to the back up QB. This team is broken from its leadership abilities more than its player talent. 

 

They were on their 4th string QB?  I thought only third.  Jeez, worse than I thought.

[ColtStronger]

12 minutes ago, Narcosys said:

 

They were on their 4th string QB?  I thought only third.  Jeez, worse than I thought.

Started with Mallett, Then Sio Moore in the first contest between Colts/Texans.  Then Hoyer took over the job.  Hoyer was injured against the Pats the week before the Colts.  Yates stepped in and was injured in the second game against the Colts, and Bradon Weeden finished us off.  To save some grace here though, Weeden is all terrible, he has held a starting job before, and has had plenty of experience starting with the Browns and Cowboys when Romo was injured.  He is better than Whitehurst...

[ColtStronger]

34 minutes ago, Steamboat_Shaun said:

These statistics are useless when your franchise QB misses more than 50% of the season.

Not useless, if you use it to correct the issues that got you there.  I'm pretty sure blocking issues lead to Luck getting hit (not the injury itself, because that came on a QB run, but Luck wouldn't need to do that if he had better protection).  Bad pass protection leading to an injury to the QB, which causes teams to stack the box against a bad OL (who also can't run block)... Seems to me the issues still are in the OL (and the man responsible for the OL being without talented blockers for 4 straight years)

[Jason_]

19 hours ago, Dustin said:

 

When Gore has a hole to run through he trips over his own feet and falls over than bangs his hands on the ground in frustration. 

 

hey look, your first joke.  Congrats!

[Dustin]

1 minute ago, Jason_S said:

 

hey look, your first joke.  Congrats!

 

Like I said, no jokes.

[Jason_]

1 minute ago, Dustin said:

 

Like I said, no jokes.

 

just because it wasn't intentional, doesn't mean it wasn't a joke.