Colts sign QB Josh Johnson. Waive CB Shaun Prater

[Larry Horseman]

Grigson is a bad GM lol and this team has tons of holes and lacks talent in a lot of areas

 

How many times can you say the same thing in multiple times in multiple threads?

 

And, Grigson is not a bad GM. Is he great? No. He's middle of the road at this point. There is a lot of good he has done building a roster from scratch in four off seasons. There is also bad. Perhaps you should make a list of positive and negatives for us and then argue why he is bad, instead of just spewing the same one sentence negative posts all over the board. 

[IcEWoLF]

How did Luck get injured?

[RockThatBlue]

Pagano just said he still expects Luck to start. I'm not saying he's wrong, but if Luck does start why do we now have 4 qbs?

[ColtsLegacy]

How many times can you say the same thing in multiple times in multiple threads?

And, Grigson is not a bad GM. Is he great? No. He's middle of the road at this point. There is a lot of good he has done building a roster from scratch in four off seasons. There is also bad. Perhaps you should make a list of positive and negatives for us and then argue why he is bad, instead of just spewing the same one sentence negative posts all over the board.

The 12 in his name refers to his age.

[Bluefire4]

How did Luck get injured?

Because of our horrible offensive line that our gm is too clueless to fix. It looked like Jurell Casey or another d lineman landed on him hard but he didn't react like he was injured.

[ColtsLegacy]

Pagano just said he still expects Luck to start. I'm not saying he's wrong, but if Luck does start why do we now have 4 qbs?

We don't, we have 3. The PS QB is irrelevant.

With Johnson, in case Luck can't go, Hasselbeck will have a backup. Which is necessary. I admit this move worries me but it doesn't mean Luck is out Sunday.

[Bluefire4]

Pagano just had his press conference and said he is still extremely confident that Luck will play and Johnson is just extra insurance.

[Valpo2004]

Oh dear. . . 

 

Josh Johnson played in the Pioneer Football League in college, the same league as my Alma Mater Valparaiso University.

 

PFL is basically a football league for teams that want to be D1 in basketball but don't want to hand out football scholarships.

 

PFL while technically D-1 FCS is really just glorified D-3.

 

We where really digging deep for this signing.  This is bad.

[Restored]

How many times can you say the same thing in multiple times in multiple threads?

 

And, Grigson is not a bad GM. Is he great? No. He's middle of the road at this point. There is a lot of good he has done building a roster from scratch in four off seasons. There is also bad. Perhaps you should make a list of positive and negatives for us and then argue why he is bad, instead of just spewing the same one sentence negative posts all over the board. 

 

Bad:

 

Holmes (bad)

RJF (bad and no longer with team)

Landry (bad and no longer with team)

Louis (bad)

Herremans (bad)

Cherilus (didnt stay healthy)

Thomas (didnt stay healthy)

Avery (bad and no longer on team)

DHB (bad and no longer on team)

Chapman (bad and no longer on team)

Montori Hughes (bad and no longer on team)

Zibokwoski (sp?) (Bad and no longer on team)

Satelle (bad and no longer on team)

 

Good to Solid:

Luck (duh)

Hilton

Fleener

Allen

Davis (via trade)

Moncrief

Lowery

Adams

Gore

Mewhort

 

I'm sure I'm forgetting players but this was just off the top of my head.

 

But really, the main issue is that none of the good to solid players he's gotten are on the offensive line outside of Mewhort.

[Valpo2004]

Pagano just had his press conference and said he is still extremely confident that Luck will play and Johnson is just extra insurance.

 

Pagano's statements on injuries are meaningless.  

 

Guy calls people day to day and then they end up on IR.

 

If Luck's right arm fell off he'd probably say he's pretty confident Luck would play.

[Bluefire4]

Pagano's statements on injuries are meaningless.  

 

Guy calls people day to day and then they end up on IR.

 

If Luck's right arm fell off he'd probably say he's pretty confident Luck would play.

I'm pretty sure he wouldn't say he was confident if Luck wasn't playing. Someone being called day to day, having a setback and needing surgery is different than saying that you're confident about someone playing.

[indy1888]

Pagano's statements on injuries are meaningless.  

 

Guy calls people day to day and then they end up on IR.

 

If Luck's right arm fell off he'd probably say he's pretty confident Luck would play.

 

I agree.  Plus he already said he had confidence early this week that Luck would play so why change course now?  He can talk about confidence all he wants, everything else going on speaks to a lack of confidence.  If your extremely confident your QB is going to play, you don't hide him at practices and go sign another QB days before the game just for the heck of it.

[RockThatBlue]

Bad:

Holmes (bad)

RJF (bad and no longer with team)

Landry (bad and no longer with team)

Louis (bad)

Herremans (bad)

Cherilus (didnt stay healthy)

Thomas (didnt stay healthy)

Avery (bad and no longer on team)

DHB (bad and no longer on team)

Chapman (bad and no longer on team)

Montori Hughes (bad and no longer on team)

Zibokwoski (sp?) (Bad and no longer on team)

Satelle (bad and no longer on team)

Good to Solid:

Luck (duh)

Hilton

Fleener

Allen

Davis (via trade)

Moncrief

Lowery

Adams

Gore

Mewhort

I'm sure I'm forgetting players but this was just off the top of my head.

But really, the main issue is that none of the good to solid players he's gotten are on the offensive line outside of Mewhort.

I disagree with Avery being bad. Other than that I agree with your lists.

[CoachSmok3]

Pagano's statements on injuries are meaningless.  

 

Guy calls people day to day and then they end up on IR.

 

If Luck's right arm fell off he'd probably say he's pretty confident Luck would play.

 

id have to agree...i tired looking up the NFL policy regarding reporting an injury and the injured list....super vague rules...and only 13 sanction in past 10 years. Coaches have admitted to lieing on report before (saying "knee" instead of "ankle"), and to NOT placing someone on the report when injured (Farve at one point playing with a sever knee injury)....

 

so I have really not much idea on where to start to make an opinion regarding how injured Luck may/may not be, nor about the signing of Tanney and Johnson....regarding if Luck is going to be out, or they are just insurance and arms to have in case...

 

I really think no one will know until 90 minutes before kick off on Sun.

[ColtsLegacy]

Oh dear. . .

Josh Johnson played in the Pioneer Football League in college, the same league as my Alma Mater Valparaiso University.

PFL is basically a football league for teams that want to be D1 in basketball but don't want to hand out football scholarships.

PFL while technically D-1 FCS is really just glorified D-3.

We where really digging deep for this signing. This is bad.

And he set like every record in that league with something like 800/1 TD/INT ratio. There's a reason he has been on a team every year since entering the league.

I actually like him for what he is.

[Larry Horseman]

Bad:

 

Holmes (bad): Not bad, average. 

RJF (bad and no longer with team): Stop gap that in no way, shape or form, hurt the team. Neutral at worst. 

Landry (bad and no longer with team): Terrible

Louis (bad): Agree

Herremans (bad): Agree after three games but could change. Fine depth, but obviously not a starter, which Grigs should have picked up. 

Cherilus (didnt stay healthy): Agree. Was fine for a couple years. Large contract that didn't kill the cap even with dead money. 

Thomas (didnt stay healthy): Agree. Again, not a starter which Grigs needed to get. 

Avery (bad and no longer on team): Nothing bad about Avery. Come on. He was just fine as a one year player. Neutral at worst. 

DHB (bad and no longer on team): Agree

Chapman (bad and no longer on team): Perhaps bad, perhaps neutral. 

Montori Hughes (bad and no longer on team): Agree

Zibokwoski (sp?) (Bad and no longer on team): One-year stop gap with no available cap space cannot be considered bad. He was a body that knew Pagano's system and wasn't intended to be anything aside from that. Neutral. 

Satelle (bad and no longer on team): Agree. During 2012, he played bad, but again, cap hampered ability to do much in FA. 

 

Good to Solid:

Luck (duh)

Hilton

Fleener

Allen

Davis (via trade)

Moncrief

Lowery

Adams

Gore

Mewhort

 

I'm sure I'm forgetting players but this was just off the top of my head.

 

But really, the main issue is that none of the good to solid players he's gotten are on the offensive line outside of Mewhort.

 

I agree Grigs has failed with his OL moves, but to say he has been more bad than good looking at the overall roster is just false. You also have to consider 2012 was a cap disaster and many of his FA signings (Laron and GC being exceptions) were meant to be stop gap band-aids while depth and future starters were acquired via the draft. 

[deedub75]

Nah, they'll draft a WR, probably Treadwell, and pass on DL and OL

 

Treadwell's a sophomore.

[Restored]

I agree Grigs has failed with his OL moves, but to say he has been more bad than good looking at the overall roster is just false. You also have to consider 2012 was a cap disaster and many of his FA signings (Laron and GC being exceptions) were meant to be stop gap band-aids while depth and future starters were acquired via the draft. 

 

Neutral doesn't mean good. You can't build a contender with a bunch of average players, especially ones at starting positions. And please, don't come back and tell me "well the pats did it". The Patriots have good players and their coach acts as their GM so he is able to get a better fit for his system when he's the one making the calls. I get some of the players were stop-gap players but outside of 2012, the use of stop-gap players should've well, stopped.

 

At this point, he's had ample time, money and draft picks to keep the franchise QB upright and he has simply failed to get the job done. Time for a change.

[crazycolt1]

was just a matter of time with old Grigson he's been putting our team on a direct path to the toilet since year 2

So explain what Luck being injured has to do with Grigson? He has a veteran QB in place and is now covering any bases just is case.

[Colts_Fan12]

Neutral doesn't mean good. You can't build a contender with a bunch of average players, especially ones at starting positions. And please, don't come back and tell me "well the pats did it". The Patriots have good players and their coach acts as their GM so he is able to get a better fit for his system when he's the one making the calls. I get some of the players were stop-gap players but outside of 2012, the use of stop-gap players should've well, stopped.

At this point, he's had ample time, money and draft picks to keep the franchise QB upright and he has simply failed to get the job done. Time for a change.

great post my friend

[Colts_Fan12]

So explain what Luck being injured has to do with Grigson? He has a veteran QB in place and is now covering any bases just is case.

he's in charge of building the trash O line we have.

[Larry Horseman]

Neutral doesn't mean good. You can't build a contender with a bunch of average players, especially ones at starting positions. And please, don't come back and tell me "well the pats did it". The Patriots have good players and their coach acts as their GM so he is able to get a better fit for his system when he's the one making the calls. I get some of the players were stop-gap players but outside of 2012, the use of stop-gap players should've well, stopped.

 

At this point, he's had ample time, money and draft picks to keep the franchise QB upright and he has simply failed to get the job done. Time for a change.

 

Neutral also doesn't mean bad. Every NFL roster has average players. Stop making it seem like every GM hits on every move with great players. Also, you generally miss the concept of roster building if you think that the 2013 FA haul of stop-gaps wasn't necessary.

 

Again, I'm not approving of Grigs failure to build the OL. At this point, OL and LB are the weaknesses (and MLB may have its answers on the roster).  Outside of those position groups, he has done fine (prior to this year, I would have put DL as a weakness but that does not currently look like the case). 

[TKnight24]

I bet Grigson is sweating. His fault Luck is injured and if he doesn't play, the holes in the roster will be exposed.

Too be fair, Romo has the BEST oline in the NFL and he's out for weeks

Injuries can happen at anytime but I do see your point

[NewColtsFan]

was just a matter of time with old Grigson he's been putting our team on a direct path to the toilet since year 2

 

This might be one of the most unintentionally funny posts I've seen here in 3 and a half years!

 

Congratulations!             

[bigt]

Yeah, like Dilfer said, the Colts FO went after the sizzle, but forgot about the steak.  Grigs did a great job in 2012 with the sizzle, but he could have done a better job with the steak in the 2013 and 2014 drafts.  He went the risky FA route and got burnt.  Our defense wouldn't have been much worse off then it is now.  He just needs to make a concerted effort through the next 2 drafts and finally fix the OLine instead of using bandaids.  I think if he does this, people will start easing up on him even if our defense suffers in the short term.  Guys like Luck are once or twice in a lifetime players and need more than 2 high draft picks (Castanzo

and Mewhort) to be his guardians.  Harbaugh would make sure he was protected if how he ran the 49ers is any indication of how he values a team's needs in order of priority.  Maybe Pags does to, but Grigs is not letting him build the team the way he wants to.  We'll probably never know.

[12dalegend]

No O-line=no QB.....nuff said

[Flash7]

Too be fair, Romo has the BEST oline in the NFL and he's out for weeks

Injuries can happen at anytime but I do see your point

When people bring up Tony Romo's injury:

 

I fully agree that in the NFL, injuries can and will happen, however, the Cowboys have done all that they could to protect their franchise QB by building a solid line, and they deserve credit for that. As you said, injuries can happen anytime.

 

Can you say the same for the Colts? Have they made the best effort to protect their franchise QB?

[Colts_Fan12]

This might be one of the most unintentionally funny posts I've seen here in 3 and a half years!

Congratulations!

I know he's wonderful to you and all the hope clan

[Colts_Fan12]

When people bring up Tony Romo's injury:

I fully agree that in the NFL, injuries can and will happen, however, the Cowboys have done all that they could to protect their franchise QB by building a solid line, and they deserve credit for that. As you said, injuries can happen anytime.

Can you say the same for the Colts? Have they made the best effort to protect their franchise QB?

romo is also damn near injury prone as well

[Restored]

Neutral also doesn't mean bad. Every NFL roster has average players. Stop making it seem like every GM hits on every move with great players. Also, you generally miss the concept of roster building if you think that the 2013 FA haul of stop-gaps wasn't necessary.

 

Again, I'm not approving of Grigs failure to build the OL. At this point, OL and LB are the weaknesses (and MLB may have its answers on the roster).  Outside of those position groups, he has done fine (prior to this year, I would have put DL as a weakness but that does not currently look like the case). 

 

Yeah, every NFL roster has average players. Some have more as backups while others have them all across their defense and offensive line like the Colts do. Let's look at that 2013 free agent class you talked about:

 

Donald Thomas (Solid when healthy but isn't on team anymore)

Aubrayo Franklin (no longer on team and did not contribute much when here)

Hasselbeck (Colts may need him on Sunday so this is a good signing)

Toler (love him when he's healthy but he hasn't been healthy for the most part)

Butler (good nickel CB)

Landry (no comment needed)

Cherilus (Not even on team anymore and was way overpaid)

RJF (no longer on team)

Havili (no longer on team)

Walden (neutral and overpaid)

 

So over half of those free agents aren't on the team anymore and were actually brought in to contribute. It appears that the stop-gap players outside of Walden are the ones still on the roster...

[12dalegend]

When people bring up Tony Romo's injury:

 

I fully agree that in the NFL, injuries can and will happen, however, the Cowboys have done all that they could to protect their franchise QB by building a solid line, and they deserve credit for that. As you said, injuries can happen anytime.

 

Can you say the same for the Colts? Have they made the best effort to protect their franchise QB?

Agree... Luck can take a hit better than Romo ever could...if we had a O-line like that we be SB bound

[Patrick Miller]

Anytime the colts downplay an injury....luck is prob done for the season. Just saying....

[12dalegend]

So explain what Luck being injured has to do with Grigson? He has a veteran QB in place and is now covering any bases just is case.

You think Hasselbeck could do better than Luck...think heʻll be kinda Romo-ish...not the talent but the injuries...wouldʻnt need Hasselbeck if he nailed it on the O-line...kinda scary thinking about him behind that ? O-line

[12dalegend]

Anytime the colts downplay an injury....luck is prob done for the season. Just saying....

Sure hope not...or ole Jim gonna clean house again

[BlueShoe]

Hasselbeck looked awful in pre-season. I have no faith in him whatsoever.

Hard to argue with you on that.

[IndyD4U]

Treadwell's a sophomore.

 

Nope, Sure isn't. He's a Junior

[Larry Horseman]

Yeah, every NFL roster has average players. Some have more as backups while others have them all across their defense and offensive line like the Colts do. Let's look at that 2013 free agent class you talked about:

 

Donald Thomas (Solid when healthy but isn't on team anymore)

Aubrayo Franklin (no longer on team and did not contribute much when here)

Hasselbeck (Colts may need him on Sunday so this is a good signing)

Toler (love him when he's healthy but he hasn't been healthy for the most part)

Butler (good nickel CB)

Landry (no comment needed)

Cherilus (Not even on team anymore and was way overpaid)

RJF (no longer on team)

Havili (no longer on team)

Walden (neutral and overpaid)

 

So over half of those free agents aren't on the team anymore and were actually brought in to contribute. It appears that the stop-gap players outside of Walden are the ones still on the roster...

 

Butler and Toler aren't meant to be stop gaps (Butler was when first signed but quickly turned into a good nickle corner). GC and Landry weren't either...they are failures. Toler has struggled with injury but overall I see him as a positive. Ideally, FA is used at a minimum to supplement weak spots in the roster while drafted talent is developed. The Colts roster was so lacking in talent and depth, and after 2012, the FO and staff realized they could win now, so they forced the issue. The depth/talent was compounded by switching to a completely new defense (hence, Franklin). Could Grigs have done better? Yes. That said, if you consider the context and put everything into perspective, his failure has been on OL and LB. Should he be criticized for that? Yes. Should he be on the hot seat? Yes. Should he be fired? TBD...let's see how this year plays out. 

[TKnight24]

When people bring up Tony Romo's injury:

I fully agree that in the NFL, injuries can and will happen, however, the Cowboys have done all that they could to protect their franchise QB by building a solid line, and they deserve credit for that. As you said, injuries can happen anytime.

Can you say the same for the Colts? Have they made the best effort to protect their franchise QB?

I'm not and I won't say the Colts put the effort in, thus why I said I see the point the person I quoted was making

[Restored]

Butler and Toler aren't meant to be stop gaps (Butler was when first signed but quickly turned into a good nickle corner). GC and Landry weren't either...they are failures. Toler has struggled with injury but overall I see him as a positive. Ideally, FA is used at a minimum to supplement weak spots in the roster while drafted talent is developed. The Colts roster was so lacking in talent and depth, and after 2012, the FO and staff realized they could win now, so they forced the issue. The depth/talent was compounded by switching to a completely new defense (hence, Franklin). Could Grigs have done better? Yes. That said, if you consider the context and put everything into perspective, his failure has been on OL and LB. Should he be criticized for that? Yes. Should he be on the hot seat? Yes. Should he be fired? TBD...let's see how this year plays out. 

 

Toler has been a positive but in my eyes, it doesn't matter how good you are, if you can't stay healthy you aren't contributing. Case in point being Vick Ballard. But see, that's the problem because the drafted talent hasn't developed really at all at some of the most important positions on the roster. What's worse, is that none of the defensive talent outside of Vontae Davis is a true game-changer. I don't count Mathis being he is from the old regime.

 

People don't seem to realize that when you invest in a player via either the draft or free agency, if they don't pan out for your team, it's hurting it.You can't keep having a revolving door and expect any level of continuity to develop.

 

If you are saying Grigson has done average then that doesn't cut it. When you have a once in a generation QB, average is not going to win you championships.

[csmopar]

Colts Forum implodes in 5   ,  4    , 3 , 2 ...............

 

 

 

Ok, I've got the pitchforks, who's going to 56th street with me to help grigs clean out his office?