DeflateGate: Brady suspension expected (mega merge / updated)

[amfootball]

PFT: Wells report disregards Anderson’s “best recollection” on a key piece of evidence

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/05/10/wells-report-disregards-andersons-best-recollection-on-a-key-piece-of-evidence/

 

Regardless of whether certain executives in the league office wanted the Patriots to be found guilty of cheating or whether Wells personally believed based on the non-scientific evidence that cheating must have happened, something prevented Wells from making a truly objective assessment of the scientific evidence. And a truly objective assessment of the scientific evidence should have led to this conclusion: It’s unclear whether tampering occurred.

[SteelCityColt]

I can't help but have the feeling that this is all going to make for a wonderful South Park episode...

[csmopar]

I will take camera location and ball pressure over your orgs blemishes any day ...

What blemishes....?

[The Old Crow]

I'm not sure how serious this should be taken . But if the Pats used illegal balls in the divisional game and the Ravens played with balls that weren't "doctored " , the Ravan's have a legit grip. The Colts a small one as maybe they would have played the Raven's at home instead of at NE. Fact is the cots were bludgeoned in that game so it's kind of a "sour grapes" complaint.

I guess it's up to the individual as to how serious this really is. Some QB's are saying Brady should be butchered for this. So you can be pretty certain those QB's never had equipment people mess with balls. Guys like Blake and a couple other QB's say it's no big deal , so those guys evidently did it.

That said , all this nonsense where the blame is deflected back to the league , Goodall and Wells is pure , unadulterated dog feces . Sorry AM but that's the truth.

Cheating always leads to questions. Did Flacco throw the interception with a properly inflated football, while Brady had his best playoff game against the Ravens in a while ? We will never know, but it just Saints the game. You also had questionable formations in that game also. It showed me an organization that would skirt rules, or league wide gentlemen's agreements to win.

[amfootball]

Cheating always leads to questions. Did Flacco throw the interception with a properly inflated football, while Brady had his best playoff game against the Ravens in a while ? We will never know, but it just Saints the game. You also had questionable formations in that game also. It showed me an organization that would skirt rules, or league wide gentlemen's agreements to win.

lol. So you are blaming Flacco's picks which he throws routinely verse all teams on the Pats? And Joe is in control of his own footballs not the Pats and air pressure can't you make loft a lollipop right into the corner of the end zone into double coverage.

[The Old Crow]

And we released Hernandez upon his request unlike the Ravens who only seemed to realize this season after the Ray Rice fiasco, the worst incident by far the NFL has had to deal with spawning then to have to create a DV policy, that you should not keep players that do heinous things.

Keep dreaming about the Pats legacy being effected by camera location and ball pressure issues. Even the most staunch Patriot haters have come and said ball pressure had zero effect on the AFCCG and that this investigation has been ridiculous. Now if we want to talk about organizational cheating, why don't you take a look at your team's history, http://yourteamcheats.com/BAL

FYI spoiler alert - your own QB Jeff Blake admitted to routinely taking air out of footballs ...

This bogus , "your team cheated stuff ,"was probably started by a slick Patriot fan trying to deflect things. Jeff Blake needed more than deflated footballs to be successful, so I agree, both he and Brady should be disqualified for the Hall of Fame.

[The Old Crow]

lol. So you are blaming Flacco's picks which he throws routinely verse all teams on the Pats? And Joe is in control of his own footballs not the Pats and air pressure can't you make loft a lollipop right into the corner of the end zone into double coverage.

The better question is, " how would Brady had really thrown against the Ravens with a properly inflated football ? Joe played a great game legitimately , but did Tom ? It stretches logic that they wouldn't have deflated footballs in that game against Baltimore, a team that had whacked them twice in the playoffs at home.

[jvan1973]

I love how the criticism has shifted from the action itself to the assumption that he may have lied. Like everyone is so holier than thou all of a sudden...including the head honcho of liars the NFL itself...they can lie all day long to us but the second someone may lie to them? Whoa...stop the presses!!! Now everyone has to pretend to be all angry that big bad Tom Brady didn't tell them the truth!!!! Yeah...lets suspend the guy for a year for lying...good plan guys.

Please. This whole situation has degenerated into open season of nonsense and you're all leading the charge.

Sean Payton was suspended for lying.

[ÅÐØNϧ 1]

I agree Old Crow. Good to hear from you again.

 

I have an important question for you. I have read the Ravens board, and noticed how the tone has gradually changed, as more information was available. It is against the rules to link to other message boards. However I am sure we both know the particular 53 page thread I am referring to. 

 

When it started to become clear to Ravens fans, that this "deflategate" had been going on for a long period of time, and possibly even dating back to 2006, the Ravens fans started to connect the dots. It is very likely that "deflategate", also impacted the Divisional games a week before the AFC Championship game. It is a possibility that Ravens fans and Colts fans were cheated from having a head-to-head match-up that would have sent either the Ravens or Colts to the Super Bowl. That showdown would have taken place in Indianapolis. It is also important to point out that the Wells Report indicates that "deflategate" had been going on for at least the entire 2014 season. If releasing air from the footballs helped the patriots to win only a few games then the playoffs should not have gone through new england, and instead should have gone through another city.

 

As a fan, how does this make you feel? Do you feel cheated?

 

The New England fans cling to it was a blow out the Colts had no chance , It has been my contention all along the Patriots did'nt belong there in the AFC Championship game in the first place .

 

The media says if the game had been close that would make this a bigger deal , NO

 

I disagree the big deal is the as a team have cheated for a decade there ball control has been the best in the league everything they have done should be called into question .

 

Close games the Patriots won will always deserve an asterisk as does there 2014 regular season & playoff run the only game anyone can say was truly a fair game was the Superbowl ,

 

So why do they deserve to be called the champs , 

 

IMO 6 games off for Brady 1.000.000  fine for team & loss of a 1'st rd pick  at the very least . It won't happen but they really should be stripped of there tainted Superbowl Win ..

[The Old Crow]

Don't you remember "Bill" did the QB deflated ball test in practice and only the ball that was at 7.5 PSI was able to be detected by the NE QBs. All the other balls felt the same to Tom and JG.

Bill used that same testing methodology to draft Aaron Hernandez when every other organization was staying away from him with a ten foot poll. But that's alright, they released him when the trouble started, so they get a free pass, and no responsibility as usual. Maybe some fast thinking Patriot fan will come off with a blog entitled, Your team's criminals," to excuse their team's actions. I call it like it is, when the Ravens goof up, I blast them.

[19colt]

Not in my book.  I'll never know if he was good enough or not.  But then again that is just my personal opinion.  He has clearly cheated for years.  And who's to say he doesn't buckle under the pressure of those RB's not fumbling those balls, or his receivers not fumbling or he not being able to throw some of those "accurate passes".  In my book he is nothing. 

 

This. It's not difficult to believe this has been going on since at least 2006. One play can change the course of a game. Add a few more fumbles to the Patriots campaign over the last couple of seasons and it could be the difference between HFA or the playoffs. Brady is also great in bad weather. Is that all skill or did he have the 1% advantage that the opposing QB did not have?

[ÅÐØNϧ 1]

lol. So you are blaming Flacco's picks which he throws routinely verse all teams on the Pats? And Joe is in control of his own footballs not the Pats and air pressure can't you make loft a lollipop right into the corner of the end zone into double coverage.

 

There everydody claim is weak not everybody has a history of cheating just the Patriots 15 years according to Goodell .

 

There has been cheating on all teams nothing rises to the level that the Patriots have . Texts exist to prove it happened more than once .

 

And if they needed to cheat against a team they have dominated like the Colts it just stands to reason they would do it to a team like the Ravens .

[ÅÐØNϧ 1]

 

FYI spoiler alert - your own QB Jeff Blake admitted to routinely taking air out of footballs ...

 

Admitted ?

 

Everyone comes clean & tells the truth on 31 teams .

 

Not the Patriots Organization from top to bottom bottom feeders when asked about cheating they lie & cover up . Low Class moves deserve harsh punishment .

[dynasty13]

Trouble is Brady did lie. The text in the Wells report shows that. Brady even said himself he didn't know who the name of the equipment guy was but still sends him text. And also the payoffs with game balls and shoes. If the guy wasn't doing something for Brady then why would he be accepting gifts from him and why would Brady pay him off in gifts? The old saying is where's there smoke there is fire holds true in this case. If Brady and the Patriots didn't have something to hide then why not cooperate with the NFL? The Wells report did find something that Brady and the Patriots didn't want to be found and shut their end of their cooperation down. It does not take a rocket scientist to know when you refuse to cooperate there is something to hide. A lot of the negative attitude on the Patriots has been brought up on themselves and their actions or lack there of.

 

It looks like Brady only communicated with Jastremsky...there are no records of any interaction with McNally at all. The texts show Jastremsky telling McNally what Brady was thinking or saying, so its totally plausible that Brady did not lie about not knowing McNally's name...especially if he was known by a nickname in the locker room and not his real name, as Bruschi alluded to in his comments.

[ÅÐØNϧ 1]

I think Brady was desperate to get a non tainted Championship, and did whatever he had to do to gain an advantage. The result of this was losing respect throughout the league, and being painted as a cheater. Its a tough pill to swallow, but that is the legacy, and the new normal. 

 

The Legacy of a cheater equal to the legacies of Lance Armstrong Barry Bonds A- Rod & Mark McGuire good company the Mount Rushmore .

[The Old Crow]

Admitted ?

Everyone comes clean & tells the truth on 31 teams .

Not the Patriots Organization from top to bottom bottom feeders when asked about cheating they lie & cover up . Low Class moves deserve harsh punishment .

How goofy does Kraft look now after making his bombastic statements ? Attacking everyone again for reporting a relevant story, than finding out it's true. Where is the apology ? We're entitled to answers ! He can't handle the truth !

[jvan1973]

It looks like Brady only communicated with Jastremsky...there are no records of any interaction with McNally at all. The texts show Jastremsky telling McNally what Brady was thinking or saying, so its totally plausible that Brady did not lie about not knowing McNally's name...especially if he was known by a nickname in the locker room and not his real name, as Bruschi alluded to in his comments.

Totally plausible that he never met the guy that has been prepping his balls for seven years ?

Yeah, totally

[The Old Crow]

The Legacy of a cheater equal to the legacies of Lance Armstrong Barry Bonds A- Rod & Mark McGuire good company the Mount Rushmore .

I totally agree. It will be interesting if the Patriots legacy will reach the depths as the foursome you pointed out.

I think that we will all agree that all organizations , the Patriots, Colts, and Ravens among others, all have some malcontents that have used PED's or got into trouble with the law. No fan likes this, and we are all equally embarrassed. I will never excuse a Ravens player doing *ic things. It embarrasses me as a fan, and the whole organization.

What we are talking about here is institutional cheating. Three Super Bowl's under the cloud of spygate, and you would have thought they would have learned their lesson. Then we have questionable formations, although technically legal, was outlawed immediately for next season. Then we have deflategate. If you don't think it's a big deal, look at the Anomaly of the lack of Patriot fumbles over the years compared to other teams, not to mention the advantage of throwing a deflated football. You can dredge up Jeff Blake if you want, but we're talking about Tom Brady here, and the integrity of the game.

[lollygagger8]

Fantastic break down: 

 

[amfootball]

The better question is, " how would Brady had really thrown against the Ravens with a properly inflated football ? Joe played a great game legitimately , but did Tom ? It stretches logic that they wouldn't have deflated footballs in that game against Baltimore, a team that had whacked them twice in the playoffs at home.

 

The better question is, " how would Brady had really thrown against the Ravens with a properly inflated football ? Joe played a great game legitimately , but did Tom ? It stretches logic that they wouldn't have deflated footballs in that game against Baltimore, a team that had whacked them twice in the playoffs at home.

Nice deflection but unfortunately air ball pressure will not mar any QB anyway whatsoever. Never has, never will.

 

And you must have missed the part where your coach said that he did not believe the Pats had done anything to do the balls in the post-season game. Joe managed to lose that game all by himself ...

[amfootball]

There everydody claim is weak not everybody has a history of cheating just the Patriots 15 years according to Goodell .

 

There has been cheating on all teams nothing rises to the level that the Patriots have . Texts exist to prove it happened more than once .

 

And if they needed to cheat against a team they have dominated like the Colts it just stands to reason they would do it to a team like the Ravens .

lol. You really need to go the site I sent Old Crow, yourteamcheats.com.  The Pats "transgressions" are nowhere in the neighborhood of some other teams, especially the other dynasty teams ...

[dynasty13]

Leading the charge???

BWAHAHAHAHA...

seriously discussing shady Brady on a football message board, leading the charge??? bwahahahaha

Insecurities & seeing your hero turn into a person without integrity gets people to say funny things...

 

It has nothing to do with insecurities...it's the fact that you guys are going on and on about payoffs and bribery and cover ups and that's total nonsense. Giving equipment guys signed memorabilia is not a payoff...its common practice. The equipment guys make close to nothing and that is how the players typically 'tip them' to show their appreciation. The texts between McNally and Jastremsky don't tell the story of bribery....and that's the narrative many are trying to create to use as additional character assassination. 

 

Think of it this way. Say my job (I'm McNally) was to make sure that all our proposals printed out and then I would pass them on to someone (the Ref) to be binded before being sent out. If the person I handed them off to accidentally made an error and binded them out of order (Jets game 16PSI balls), my boss (Brady) would probably give me a stern talkin' to. So I decided to avoid that and started coming in every Sunday to go through each page one by one to make sure that everything was in order so I wouldn't get yelled at again. Then I went home and texted my coworker and said something like 'man, screw our boss, I better be getting a nice bonus this year!'...does that mean my boss is bribing me?

 

No...its tough to read the intent of the texts between McNally and Jastremsky without the total context.

[csmopar]

It looks like Brady only communicated with Jastremsky...there are no records of any interaction with McNally at all. The texts show Jastremsky telling McNally what Brady was thinking or saying, so its totally plausible that Brady did not lie about not knowing McNally's name...especially if he was known by a nickname in the locker room and not his real name, as Bruschi alluded to in his comments.

You mean his admitted nickname...the Deflator?.....

[NFLfan]

lol. You really need to go the site I sent Old Crow, yourteamcheats.com. The Pats "transgressions" are nowhere in the neighborhood of some other teams, especially the other dynasty teams ...

It is obviously not a credible source. Any unbiased person could see it was created by a Pats fan. I looked at it two days ago and quickly realized it was bogus.

[jvan1973]

Nice deflection but unfortunately air ball pressure will not mar any QB anyway whatsoever. Never has, never will.

And you must have missed the part where your coach said that he did not believe the Pats had done anything to do the balls in the post-season game. Joe managed to lose that game all by himself ...

You accusing someone of deflection is rich and terribly hilarious

[SilentHill]

I feel like a little kid on Christmas awaiting some kind of announcement from the NFL.

[garydellabate]

Colts should be made whole since we had to suffer at the hands of Patriots cheating and NFL's incompetence in a championship game.

[SilentHill]

lol. You really need to go the site I sent Old Crow, yourteamcheats.com.  The Pats "transgressions" are nowhere in the neighborhood of some other teams, especially the other dynasty teams ...

 

You realize that site was made by a patriots fan, right?

[radiogirl]

Just read the footnotes ...

 

The report was completely biased. No mention of how Anderson was told before the game by Grison about the balls and yet somehow in 19 years of working he lost track of the balls? Yet the report praises him as being this great ref, blah, blah. The league slant is unbelievable in this. It is fine to slam the Pats, I get that but not one mention of any mishandling by the refs? Anderson did not even write down his gauge readings but was going from memory and thinks he used the same gauge for all the balls. Good heavens ... and then they could not gauge all the Colts balls because they ran out of time??

 

How about a comment from the ref that did the Jets game and the balls being inflated to 16 psi? Not one word from him on how/why that happened?

 

BTW, they said the Bill's explanation of the psi being raised from ball prep was in fact proven to be true but that the pressure returns back to normal after 30 minutes.

It is clear that this investigation needs to be scrapped.  Then, a new, complete investigation needs to be done by you so that it will be done correctly and to your standards.

 

Obviously, the NFL and their attorneys don't know what they are doing.  They need you to clear this whole thing up.....

[ÅÐØNϧ 1]

I totally agree. It will be interesting if the Patriots legacy will reach the depths as the foursome you pointed out.

I think that we will all agree that all organizations , the Patriots, Colts, and Ravens among others, all have some malcontents that have used PED's or got into trouble with the law. No fan likes this, and we are all equally embarrassed. I will never excuse a Ravens player doing *ic things. It embarrasses me as a fan, and the whole organization.

What we are talking about here is institutional cheating. Three Super Bowl's under the cloud of spygate, and you would have thought they would have learned their lesson. Then we have questionable formations, although technically legal, was outlawed immediately for next season. Then we have deflategate. If you don't think it's a big deal, look at the Anomaly of the lack of Patriot fumbles over the years compared to other teams, not to mention the advantage of throwing a deflated football. You can dredge up Jeff Blake if you want, but we're talking about Tom Brady here, and the integrity of the game.

 

I predict fumbles go up dramaticly in cheaterland .

[OffensivelyPC]

PFT: Wells report disregards Anderson’s “best recollection” on a key piece of evidence

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/05/10/wells-report-disregards-andersons-best-recollection-on-a-key-piece-of-evidence/

 

Regardless of whether certain executives in the league office wanted the Patriots to be found guilty of cheating or whether Wells personally believed based on the non-scientific evidence that cheating must have happened, something prevented Wells from making a truly objective assessment of the scientific evidence. And a truly objective assessment of the scientific evidence should have led to this conclusion: It’s unclear whether tampering occurred.

That's not hte key piece of evidence.  The key piece of evidence is that gauge inconsistencies were ruled out.  Whichever gauge Anderson used, it doesn't matter.  What does matter is that, whenever the Logo or Non-Logo gauge was used at halftime, you can take those measurments and compare them both to the 12.5 PSIs measured by Anderson.  Once they were measured at halftime, all the Patriots balls were under 12.5, the drop in the PSI of the Patriot footballs shows tampering because scientifically, the drop in the Patriot's PSI cannot be explained:

 

"According to our scientific consultants, however, the reduction in pressure of the Patriots game balls cannot be explained completely by basic scientific principles, such as the Ideal Gas Law, based on the circumstances and conditions likely to have been present on the day of the AFC Championship Game. In addition, the Patriots game balls exhibited a greater drop in average pressure than the Colts balls. Exponent and Dr. Marlow agreed that the difference in the magnitude of the average pressure drops between the Patriots and Colts footballs is statistically significant, regardless of which of the two gauges was used to set the balls pre-game and test them at halftime and regardless of whether the starting pressure for the Colts game balls is assumed to be 13.0 or 13.1 psi. Exponent and Dr. Marlow further advised us that the variability in the Patriots halftime measurements suggests that the game balls did not start the game at or near the same pressure, even though they all measured at or near 12.5 psi when inspected by the referee."

 

Florio is barking up the wrong tree...

[ÅÐØNϧ 1]

Nice deflection but unfortunately air ball pressure will not mar any QB anyway whatsoever. Never has, never will.

 

And you must have missed the part where your coach said that he did not believe the Pats had done anything to do the balls in the post-season game. Joe managed to lose that game all by himself ...

 

Okay  but lying & covering up & not co operating with the league will .

 

His coach did not have all the facts no one has them all but Brady & his goons thats why he goes down like Frazier Baby .

[Superman]

The better question is, " how would Brady had really thrown against the Ravens with a properly inflated football ? 

 

Or Julian Edelman?

[lollygagger8]

I'm guessing Newsome and Cole won't get to slam Shady Brady into the turf in the 6th week, but hopefully they and Mathis get the chance to bury that liar's face into the turf in the playoffs. 

[OffensivelyPC]

I'm guessing Newsome and Cole won't get to slam Shady Brady into the turf in the 6th week, but hopefully they and Mathis get the chance to bury that liar's face into the turf in the playoffs. 

I'm thinking he gets 6-8 games with a reduction to 3-4 on appeal, so we'll probably see him.  The biased part of me wants him to get a season, but really, what Brady did isn't as bad as what guys like Hardy and Rice did.  The biggest infraction Brady has committed in my eyes is the lie and cover up, which tears at the integrity of the player, franchise and the game.  That's more important to me than simply taking some pressure out of a football.

[crazycolt1]

It looks like Brady only communicated with Jastremsky...there are no records of any interaction with McNally at all. The texts show Jastremsky telling McNally what Brady was thinking or saying, so its totally plausible that Brady did not lie about not knowing McNally's name...especially if he was known by a nickname in the locker room and not his real name, as Bruschi alluded to in his comments.

You mean the guy known as the deflator that has been prepping his footballs for seven years?  You have to be pretty naive to honestly believe that. Also, Bruschi has turned into another Skip Bayless if he believes that pile of horse dung.

[csmopar]

You mean the guy known as the deflator that has been prepping his footballs for seven years? You have to be pretty naive to honestly believe that.

I think it's safe to say him and am are both way beyond naive at this point. I'm not sure I can find the right word to describe them and be polite enough to be posted..

[crazycolt1]

I think it's safe to say him and am are both way beyond naive at this point. I'm not sure I can find the right word to describe them and be polite enough to be posted..

Maybe the first part of my name in here?

[Jason_]

anyway, please all of you - go do a squeeze test between 11psi and 12psi.   there is absolutely no difference.  you must be like super expert to tell a difference. 

 

you mean, like an NFL QB? ;)

[PeterBowman]

I think it's safe to say him and am are both way beyond naive at this point. I'm not sure I can find the right word to describe them and be polite enough to be posted..

it's like it's a cult out there almost