DeflateGate: Brady suspension expected (mega merge / updated)

[amfootball]

There is some scuttle here that Kraft is talking with Goodell about potential punishment ...

[OffensivelyPC]

Let's see, leagues fault, media's fault, ball boys, Grigson, Harbaugh, Ravens , Colts, Jeff Blake, other team's PED users, Ray Lewis's antler spray, jealous opposing fans. Have I left anything out of the blame game ?

Throw in Roger Goodell and I think you've got it all covered.  He's at the center of all bad things NFL related.

[amfootball]

You do not know the "facts" in this case.  You have grabbed an article, ASSUMED what you think happened and are running with it.  Every "fact" you state is not correct.  Seriously, you are so off-base it's scary to watch you.  

 

You said "read the article" but you must not have or you read/hear what you want to hear and ignore the rest.  I suspect the later.  

 

The original league findings were:

1.  Towels weren't illegal.

2.  No substance on the balls.

3.  The towels weren't handed over quickly enough to the refs (but they WERE handed over, during the game).

 

The team countered that the equipment manager did not realize what the ref was asking for and why.

 

 

The teams appeal was upheld and no charges, no fines were levied.

 

Again, you are dead wrong.  

If you did nothing wrong then why a new rule about no sticky towels?

 

They didn’t cough up towels when told to do so. They tried to hide them. The towels had sticky crap on them which – if they were being hidden – makes it more probable than not that an advantage was being gained that the Chargers wanted concealed. And the NFL’s Competition Committee laid down a new [rule]. No sticky towels."

[ColtsBlueFL]

It looks like Brady only communicated with Jastremsky...there are no records of any interaction with McNally at all. The texts show Jastremsky telling McNally what Brady was thinking or saying, so its totally plausible that Brady did not lie about not knowing McNally's name...especially if he was known by a nickname in the locker room and not his real name, as Bruschi alluded to in his comments.

 

I'm leaning Brady 'more likely than not' doesn't know the locker room dudes name.  That dude is just a guy that does Brady's bidding in some dark, hidden bathroom or wherever hidden from public scrutiny whenever he could.  But that doesn't mean does not know the guy, and what he 'does

 

es' for him.

 

I matters not whether he knows McNally's name, but 'he does'.  He know Jastremski painstakingly preps his balls and airs them to 12.5 psi.  And knows what the 'Deflator' does, given time and a secret area to work.

[ÅÐØNϧ 1]

There is some scuttle here that Kraft is talking with Goodell about potential punishment ...

 

With there history Goodell should keep Kraft at arms length especially after burning those Spygate videos . He can only help his friend so much .

[dgambill]

Only one Colts ball measured below 12.5, and that's only by one reading. Percentage wise, all the Pats balls lost more pressure than all the Colts balls, which pretty much rules out temperature.

 

Add to that the fact that McNally stole the balls out of the refs' locker room and disappeared into the bathroom with them, and it's pretty easy to conclude that McNally -- the same guy who called himself "the deflator" in May 2014, despite not having anything to do with the preparation of the footballs -- took air out of the footballs after the refs checked them.

Indeed. Also when you stick a needle in the ball naturally some air will escape...thus if these balls are being tested a couple times in succession that is why the air is lower etc. Not that it really matters much...its tthe intent of cheating, the circumventing the rules, the lying, the stone walling that basically will be what is punished here. You can't thumb your nose at the league and refuse to answer questions or present evidence and expect them to be easy on you.

[amfootball]

With there history Goodell should keep Kraft at arms length especially after burning those Spygate videos . He can only help his friend so much .

Since Roger had to have himself invested this year over his handling or Rice, I hope he is talking to Kraft AND as many lawyers and PR people as possible ...

[OffensivelyPC]

I am not disagreeing but going to take a pee is not ball tampering. It could have been found out pregame if Walt took the balls and made the Pats play with the reserves. You do realize when Brady is suspended and appeals and it is over turned, this will be one of the mains reasons along with the different psi readings and hearsay on the pregame readings?

You do realize hearsay is not excluded testimony in employee discipline hearings, right?  I've already spoken to you on the different psi ratings.  THat's not fatal at all.  The scientific experiments account for the different psi ratings.  So whichever gauge Anderson used, either gauge used at halftime can be used to show the Patriots deflated footballs.  So no, this won't be turned over on the account of a ball boy ducking into the bathroom with a bunch of balls when he could have simply gone pee before getting them.  It looks bad no matter who's story you buy and McNally won't have any way of providing a reasonable answer other than that he made a mistake/bad judgment/didn't know, none of which flies for a guy who's been doing the same routine game in and game out for 7 years.  He knew better and no hearsay will change that.

[buccolts]

Meh... 57 pages, and the only thing I got out of this thread is that AM is okay with cheating, but not okay with getting caught cheating. At that point, it's the league's fault, who caught the cheating, instead of the cheaters themselves.

Does that sum it up about right?

 

Yeah, pretty much it.

[GoPats]

I tried to be intellectually honest last week in admitting that the texts cited in the Wells report leave little doubt in my mind that, a) The deflation in the AFCCG was deliberate, and 2) That there's almost zero chance that it was happening without Brady's knowledge. 

 

That said, this place has lost its collective mind. (With some exceptions, of course.) 

 

This is a four game suspension max, probably reduced to two upon appeal. Anyone calling for Brady to get hit harder than that has an ulterior motive and/or agenda against him. If you're one of them, way to buy into the sensationalized media hype. 

 

Maybe you'll get your wish and it'll be a long suspension. But personally if the roles were reversed, beating the Patriots without Brady would leave a hollow feeling for me. 

 

The really crazy thing is that most of us probably have no concept of the difference between a football at 12.5 PSI and a football at even 10 PSI. But I digress and that isn't the point. This is like sending someone to jail for a month for getting a speeding ticket. The mob mentality is insane. 

 

What's disappointing to me personally is how some people I had a lot of respect for are clearly reveling in the fallout of this. For a fan base that constantly reminds other fan bases how classy you are, that's a pretty classless thing to do. But hey, I suppose you have a right. I just know that my perceptions of many are permanently altered. 

 

Saw that Peyton Manning was asked about this over the weekend. He said, "I don't know what happened, but (Brady's) my friend, and he'll always be my friend." 

 

Good lead to follow there. 

 

I'm out, kids. It's been fun, 

[amfootball]

You do realize hearsay is not excluded testimony in employee discipline hearings, right?  I've already spoken to you on the different psi ratings.  THat's not fatal at all.  The scientific experiments account for the different psi ratings.  So whichever gauge Anderson used, either gauge used at halftime can be used to show the Patriots deflated footballs.  So no, this won't be turned over on the account of a ball boy ducking into the bathroom with a bunch of balls when he could have simply gone pee before getting them.  It looks bad no matter who's story you buy and McNally won't have any way of providing a reasonable answer other than that he made a mistake/bad judgment/didn't know, none of which flies for a guy who's been doing the same routine game in and game out for 7 years.  He knew better and no hearsay will change that.

You may have missed in the report where Wells tried to talk Walt into thinking he used a different gauge pregame, read this from Florio today. This will be a BIG bullet in the appeals process as well, http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/05/10/wells-report-disregards-andersons-best-recollection-on-a-key-piece-of-evidence/

[ÅÐØNϧ 1]

Since Roger had to have himself invested this year over his handling or Rice, I hope he is talking to Kraft AND as many lawyers and PR people as possible ...

 

Kraft is toxic . theres 32 teams in the league what are the others thinking ? Who cares what Kraft thinks IMO hes part of the problem talk to the other 31 teams .

[jvan1973]

You may have missed in the report where Wells tried to talk Walt into thinking he used a different gauge pregame, read this from Florio today. This will be a BIG bullet in the appeals process as well, http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/05/10/wells-report-disregards-andersons-best-recollection-on-a-key-piece-of-evidence/

I guess you missed it to even though you have claimed to have read it multiple times

[amfootball]

NFLPA wants Kraft to push for neutral arbitration pending NFL punishment,  http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/05/11/nflpa-hopes-kraft-pushes-for-neutral-arbitration/

[Superman]

Indeed. Also when you stick a needle in the ball naturally some air will escape...thus if these balls are being tested a couple times in succession that is why the air is lower etc. Not that it really matters much...its tthe intent of cheating, the circumventing the rules, the lying, the stone walling that basically will be what is punished here. You can't thumb your nose at the league and refuse to answer questions or present evidence and expect them to be easy on you.

 

Not that much air escapes. Not enough to take a ball out of compliance, I don't think. Jastremski said he would put the footballs at 12.6 PSI, knowing that some air would escape between transport and testing. That's all fine.

 

And it might even be the case that McNally was only supposed to take a little air out because the refs had put too much air in the footballs. Maybe they weren't supposed to be less than 12.5 PSI. There's still a plan to tamper with the footballs after they've been approved by the refs. Even if Brady wanted them to only take air out if the refs over-inflated the footballs, it's still a flagrant violation of the rules.

[ÅÐØNϧ 1]

I tried to be intellectually honest last week in admitting that the texts cited in the Wells report leave little doubt in my mind that, a) The deflation in the AFCCG was deliberate, and 2) That there's almost zero chance that it was happening without Brady's knowledge. 

 

That said, this place has lost its collective mind. (With some exceptions, of course.) 

 

This is a four game suspension max, probably reduced to two upon appeal. Anyone calling for Brady to get hit harder than that has an ulterior motive and/or agenda against him. If you're one of them, way to buy into the sensationalized media hype. 

 

Maybe you'll get your wish and it'll be a long suspension. But personally if the roles were reversed, beating the Patriots without Brady would leave a hollow feeling for me. 

 

The really crazy thing is that most of us probably have no concept of the difference between a football at 12.5 PSI and a football at even 10 PSI. But I digress and that isn't the point. This is like sending someone to jail for a month for getting a speeding ticket. The mob mentality is insane. 

 

What's disappointing to me personally is how some people I had a lot of respect for are clearly reveling in the fallout of this. For a fan base that constantly reminds other fan bases how classy you are, that's a pretty classless thing to do. But hey, I suppose you have a right. I just know that my perceptions of many are permanently altered. 

 

Saw that Peyton Manning was asked about this over the weekend. He said, "I don't know what happened, but (Brady's) my friend, and he'll always be my friend." 

 

Good lead to follow there. 

 

If all Patriot fans were like you I would have no problem backing off unfortunately a large part of your fanbase are & always have been very vocal I can't stand those people I have much more respect for Tom Brady well until last week .

 

You just lose all respect for a person who is a liar caught who continues to lie .

 

You are a classy Patriot fan unfortunately IMO the number is a small one .

[Girlzarefanstoo]

If you did nothing wrong then why a new rule about no sticky towels?

 

They didn’t cough up towels when told to do so. They tried to hide them.  The towels had sticky crap on them which – if they were being hidden – makes it more probable than not  that an advantage was being gained that the Chargers wanted concealed. And the NFL’s Competition Committee laid down a new [rule]. No sticky towels."

Last reply for the day as I have to get to work.  You are deflecting AGAIN.  You want us to talk about anything and everything except the case at hand.  We aren't discussing the Chargers dismissed charges, or some event from some team's potential infraction in 1918, or God only knows what else you'll bring up -  we're discussing the pending punishment that is being prepared to mete out to your team which has met the standard of guilt in the NFL which is simply stated, "More probably than not."

 

You don't get to decide what's "more probably than not" only an official investigatory team does and they have a standard against what it must be weighed and measured.  They do not get to pick and choose the facts, only follow where the facts lead.

 

However futile the attempt may be, I'm going to give you another logic lesson.  The ones you think are so unnecessary.  

 

You have quoted an "opinion piece" as though it were fact.  

 

I have given you the established facts.  Established through the official NFL report.  They are not equal.  Opinions do not equal facts.  

 

Opinions do not have the weight of facts.  Opinions have the weight of a feather versus the weight of a 10 lb bar of lead (facts).

 

In the Chargers' case the facts exonerated them from all wrong in the end.  You don't get to quote the beginning of the process as though it were the end.

[OffensivelyPC]

You may have missed in the report where Wells tried to talk Walt into thinking he used a different gauge pregame, read this from Florio today. This will be a BIG bullet in the appeals process as well, http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/05/10/wells-report-disregards-andersons-best-recollection-on-a-key-piece-of-evidence/

No, I didn't miss anything.  Florio is wrong on two levels.  First, the simple fact that Anderson said "I think I used this gauge, but it's possible I used the other" is in no way an indictment on Wells.  I'm not sure how you or he can get to that conclusion based simply off thta one line in the report, but it requires a leap in logic that Walt essentially "convinced" him to say that.  Second, the test results take into account both gauges, so it doesn't matter which one Walt used, the scientist accounted for hte fact that he wasn't sure which gauge he used and ran tests with both of them.  He said, either way, the Patriots footballs were probably deflated before the game.  So no, it won't be a big point at all.  It's irrelevant, because whether it was gauge 1 or gauge 2, both come to the same conclusion.

[ricker182]

I tried to be intellectually honest last week in admitting that the texts cited in the Wells report leave little doubt in my mind that, a) The deflation in the AFCCG was deliberate, and 2) That there's almost zero chance that it was happening without Brady's knowledge.

That said, this place has lost its collective mind. (With some exceptions, of course.)

This is a four game suspension max, probably reduced to two upon appeal. Anyone calling for Brady to get hit harder than that has an ulterior motive and/or agenda against him. If you're one of them, way to buy into the sensationalized media hype.

Maybe you'll get your wish and it'll be a long suspension. But personally if the roles were reversed, beating the Patriots without Brady would leave a hollow feeling for me.

The really crazy thing is that most of us probably have no concept of the difference between a football at 12.5 PSI and a football at even 10 PSI. But I digress and that isn't the point. This is like sending someone to jail for a month for getting a speeding ticket. The mob mentality is insane.

What's disappointing to me personally is how some people I had a lot of respect for are clearly reveling in the fallout of this. For a fan base that constantly reminds other fan bases how classy you are, that's a pretty classless thing to do. But hey, I suppose you have a right. I just know that my perceptions of many are permanently altered.

Saw that Peyton Manning was asked about this over the weekend. He said, "I don't know what happened, but (Brady's) my friend, and he'll always be my friend."

Good lead to follow there.

I'm out, kids. It's been fun,

We're just tired of the cheating, the bending of the rules, tired of him literally getting in ref's faces and yelling at them with no repercussions, tired of the new rules constantly created to cater to him, tired of Brady telling us to "read the rulebook" when he clearly hasn't or has and has no regard for the rules.

He's not a good lead to follow.

[amfootball]

No, I didn't miss anything.  Florio is wrong on two levels.  First, the simple fact that Anderson said "I think I used this gauge, but it's possible I used the other" is in no way an indictment on Wells.  I'm not sure how you or he can get to that conclusion based simply off thta one line in the report, but it requires a leap in logic that Walt essentially "convinced" him to say that.  Second, the test results take into account both gauges, so it doesn't matter which one Walt used, the scientist accounted for hte fact that he wasn't sure which gauge he used and ran tests with both of them.  He said, either way, the Patriots footballs were probably deflated before the game.  So no, it won't be a big point at all.  It's irrelevant, because whether it was gauge 1 or gauge 2, both come to the same conclusion.

You can't in one point of the report say you believe Walt's recollection 100 percent when he talked about the pregame psi measurements and then turn around on the next point about the gauge he used and question his recollection. He looked at that gauge 48 times to do all the balls. I think he knew which one he used.

 

And you are incorrect about the readings. If the psi numbers are used for the gauge he said he used than it proves the balls were not tampered with.

 

And remember Florio hates the Pats and even he sees the nonsense in this report ...

[ÅÐØNϧ 1]

Patriots fans point out it was a blow it did'nt effect the game I found this quote & wanted to share & hear others opinion .

 

 

 

the Patriots 17-7 halftime advantage does impact the second half of the game. Being down by 10 points, the Patriots could anticipate the Colts would pass more to try to get back into the game.  10 of the Colts first 11 plays in the 3rd quarter were pass plays, including an interception by the Patriots.  Being able to anticipate what the opponent does makes your defensive job easier.  A hallmark of the Patriots shenanigans over the years.

[Mouthfire]

Yeah, pretty much it.

Well, I won't say much more, but that's kind of a sad, sad statement....

[BlueShoe]

I tried to be intellectually honest last week in admitting that the texts cited in the Wells report leave little doubt in my mind that, a) The deflation in the AFCCG was deliberate, and 2) That there's almost zero chance that it was happening without Brady's knowledge. 

 

That said, this place has lost its collective mind. (With some exceptions, of course.) 

 

This is a four game suspension max, probably reduced to two upon appeal. Anyone calling for Brady to get hit harder than that has an ulterior motive and/or agenda against him. If you're one of them, way to buy into the sensationalized media hype. 

 

Maybe you'll get your wish and it'll be a long suspension. But personally if the roles were reversed, beating the Patriots without Brady would leave a hollow feeling for me. 

 

The really crazy thing is that most of us probably have no concept of the difference between a football at 12.5 PSI and a football at even 10 PSI. But I digress and that isn't the point. This is like sending someone to jail for a month for getting a speeding ticket. The mob mentality is insane. 

 

What's disappointing to me personally is how some people I had a lot of respect for are clearly reveling in the fallout of this. For a fan base that constantly reminds other fan bases how classy you are, that's a pretty classless thing to do. But hey, I suppose you have a right. I just know that my perceptions of many are permanently altered. 

 

Saw that Peyton Manning was asked about this over the weekend. He said, "I don't know what happened, but (Brady's) my friend, and he'll always be my friend." 

 

Good lead to follow there. 

 

I'm out, kids. It's been fun, 

 

The Wells Report reveals that it is very clear the patriots have been doing this for a long period of time. The cheating undoubtedly led to a better fumble rate, which helps the patriots win games. How long has this been going on? I don't know, because the investigation focused mainly on the action the night of January 18, 2015. 

 

It would be best case for the NFL and patriots to sweep this under the rug and isolate it to only one day. However, that does not address the concern of cheating that was possibly going on over the course of years. 

 

If this were Peyton or Luck then I would gladly ask for a stiff punishment. The outcome of games were very likely decided by the cheating, and it is a disgrace to the NFL.

 

Personally I would ban brady from ever playing again. I would do the same if it were Peyton or Luck. But what I feel should be done may or may not be the same views of the NFL.

 

The one thing we do know is the integrity of the NFL in question, and it is to the point that myself, as a fan for over 30 years (never missing a Colts game), is questioning whether or not to even continue watching the NFL anymore. 

[ColtsBlueFL]

 

 

 

 

This part I found interesting in Peter King's article. He was saying that IF Brady tried to cheat, he was pretty bad at it.

 

Since the NFL allowed all teams to condition footballs the way they wanted for use in both home and road games in 2006, the idea was that quarterbacks could play with footballs in the same shape for 16 weekends, not eight. (Previously, road quarterbacks played with footballs broken in in whatever way the home team wished.) But road teams do not bring their own ballboys to games. So, if a home-team ballboy was doctoring the footballs in any way before the game, that’s not something that could happen on the road. Brady, of course, is suspected of having the balls doctored for him in the AFC title game, and it’d be naïve to think that this was the first game in which two longtime club employees messed with the footballs for Brady.

But if John Jastremski or Jim McNally have done any funny business with the balls over the past few years, the results sure don’t show it. Some telling numbers for Brady in the nine regular seasons between 2006 and 2014:

Passer Rating

Home Games 100.2

Road Games  99.7

Passing Yards

Home Games 271.8

Road Games  274.3 

TD-to-Interception Differential

Home Games Plus-96

Road Games  Plus-96 

Wouldn’t you figure that if Brady was getting such an edge by having footballs doctored before home games—and by the simple factor of home-field advantage—that, more probable than not, he’d be markedly better at home?

 

One thing that IS clear is that the action itself isn't a big deal, as shown by the dominance of Brady in the second half of the AFCCG as well as his Superbowl performance with perfectly regulated footballs. So people are really calling for a long suspension for supposedly lying? It's not even about the deflating anymore, it's his response to it that people are apparently upset about and I don't really get it. Its not about the integrity of the game anymore, its the apparent integrity of the guy.

 

 

Here's the kicker, All of Tom Brady's balls are prepped the same way: Home and road. Jastremski does them.  They are all aired to 12.5 lbs per square inch.  on the road, that is the way Tom has to play with them.  At home, given the ability for the Deflator to get those balls off to a secluded area by himself, he can adjust them below 12.5.  But I bet he doesn't always get the opportunity. So Tom has to play with them at 12.5 at home too, when Deflator McNally didn't find a way to bleed them.  In fact, if McNally did not go in to the Refs locker room and steal the game balls, I'm not sure how he would have been able to flatten them down a touch for Brady in the Colts AFCCG.

 

Over what period of time did Mr. King collect his data?  9 years?  What if Deflator was only able to deflate the balls in 7 games, all within the last 3 years?  I think the data would be buried  in a 9 year average.  I think that data needs to be collected in a year by years basis, and see if anything starts to show itself then.

 

So a deflation may impact a game and thus alter a seasons standings, it may not have happened enough to impact seasons worth of data or more.

[18Manning]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ouZHlkStz-U

 

[csmopar]

Good heavens ... I think we are done.

Why? Because he's right and you can't stand to be proven wrong?

[BlueShoe]

I think we can all mostly agree that the patriots live by a few simple processes of following rules:

1. Bend any rule as far as possible.
2. Break rules as much as possible.
3. When caught breaking rules:
   1. Deny any allegations
   2. Threaten to sue any person or entity involved with uncovering the cheating
   3. Deflect attention
   4. Use home based media to help deny and deflect by attacking other people and entities

[pgt_rob]

 

I think we can all mostly agree that the patriots live by a few simple processes of following rules:

1. Bend any rule as far as possible.
2. Break rules as much as possible.
3. When caught breaking rules:
   1. Deny any allegations
   2. Threaten to sue any person or entity involved with uncovering the cheating
   3. Deflect attention
   4. Use home based media to help deny and deflect by attacking other people and entities

 

 

5. Claim that this isn't ISIS.

[Jason_]

Ok, so I will give you my best PR counsel on this. The NFL leaked that it was planning on suspending Brady to gauge public perception. Now that it has seen that perception, it is has now come and said the insinuation of suspension is misleading. This has happened for a few reasons:

 

1) The networks got to Goodell is said you have to be kidding me suspending Brady for the home opening in which they have paid millions into.

 

2) Don Yee's campaign these last few days to basically say that Brady will fight this tooth and nail. League does not want a battle with its biggest star/

 

3) And the biggest one IMO. The report is a pile of poop and the league knows its suspension will not get upheld just like Peterson, Rice and Vilma.

 

are....you....serious?

 

 

[18Manning]

Wife comes home with an unopened box of powdered donuts. Wife tells husband not to open the donuts as she places them on the kitchen counter and goes upstairs. Husband really likes powdered donuts and expresses his desire for powdered donuts to son, but says wife/mom told him not to open the box. Son opens box of powdered donuts for dad/husband. Wife comes downstairs and finds opened box of powdered donuts (donut box deflated as freshness seal compromised) missing donuts. Husband/dad has white powder around his lips.

 

I think dad had some donuts, there’s no proof, but it sure looks that way.  

[Jason_]

You are trying to compare an entire era of a sport where multiple players on multiple teams were found to have used PED's compared to one player on one NFL team that has been caught cheating. So yes, I would agree that the two are not comparable.

So are you saying the Pats are the first and only team to ball tamper???

 

Unless I'm missing something, Restored's post was written in plain English.  So, is it the "reading" part that's confusing you or did you get all the way to the point of putting multiple words together when you got tripped up?

[OffensivelyPC]

You can't in one point of the report say you believe Walt's recollection 100 percent when he talked about the pregame psi measurements and then turn around on the next point about the gauge he used and question his recollection. He looked at that gauge 48 times to do all the balls. I think he knew which one he used.

 

And you are incorrect about the readings. If the psi numbers are used for the gauge he said he used than it proves the balls were not tampered with.

 

And remember Florio hates the Pats and even he sees the nonsense in this report ...

What post were you reading?  I never said anything you just insinuated.  I said (a) you are assuming Wells influenced Anderson to say soemthing, based off one quote that basically says "I think I used this gauge, but I might have used that one" and (b) scientist say it didn't matter which gauge Anderson used because, scientifically speaking, the Patriots balls exhibited a much greater proportion drop in air pressure compared to the Colts footballs, no matter which pressure gauge was used.  At what point did I say anything about how I felt about Wells' recollection?

 

Also, I don't care if Florio hates the Pats.  If he's wrong, I'm going to point it out.

[amfootball]

What post were you reading?  I never said anything you just insinuated.  I said (a) you are assuming Wells influenced Anderson to say soemthing, based off one quote that basically says "I think I used this gauge, but I might have used that one" and (b) scientist say it didn't matter which gauge Anderson used because, scientifically speaking, the Patriots balls exhibited a much greater proportion drop in air pressure compared to the Colts footballs, no matter which pressure gauge was used.  At what point did I say anything about how I felt about Wells' recollection?

 

Also, I don't care if Florio hates the Pats.  If he's wrong, I'm going to point it out.

Sorry my bad. I misread your post. Carry on ...

[ricker182]

I'm not going to lie. This is very fun.

[garydellabate]

lol. Have you read the threads? It is not just me. I am pretty sure of that.

 

But this is very entertaining ... we will see how it all unfolds when the ax drops ...

 

Bad Morty, Jerod Mayo, and Viriludant haven't sniffed this thread. Yehoodi is yehiding too. At least dynasty came around a little bit so it's basically just you. GoPats is a class act fan.

[ReMeDy]

 

 

 

 

This part I found interesting in Peter King's article. He was saying that IF Brady tried to cheat, he was pretty bad at it.

 

Since the NFL allowed all teams to condition footballs the way they wanted for use in both home and road games in 2006, the idea was that quarterbacks could play with footballs in the same shape for 16 weekends, not eight. (Previously, road quarterbacks played with footballs broken in in whatever way the home team wished.) But road teams do not bring their own ballboys to games. So, if a home-team ballboy was doctoring the footballs in any way before the game, that’s not something that could happen on the road. Brady, of course, is suspected of having the balls doctored for him in the AFC title game, and it’d be naïve to think that this was the first game in which two longtime club employees messed with the footballs for Brady.

But if John Jastremski or Jim McNally have done any funny business with the balls over the past few years, the results sure don’t show it. Some telling numbers for Brady in the nine regular seasons between 2006 and 2014:

Passer Rating

Home Games 100.2

Road Games  99.7

Passing Yards

Home Games 271.8

Road Games  274.3 

TD-to-Interception Differential

Home Games Plus-96

Road Games  Plus-96 

Wouldn’t you figure that if Brady was getting such an edge by having footballs doctored before home games—and by the simple factor of home-field advantage—that, more probable than not, he’d be markedly better at home?

 

One thing that IS clear is that the action itself isn't a big deal, as shown by the dominance of Brady in the second half of the AFCCG as well as his Superbowl performance with perfectly regulated footballs. So people are really calling for a long suspension for supposedly lying? It's not even about the deflating anymore, it's his response to it that people are apparently upset about and I don't really get it. Its not about the integrity of the game anymore, its the apparent integrity of the guy.

 

 

One thing this article is not accounting for though is fumble counts. Look at the fumbles and you'll find you don't need to be a statistician to see a glaring difference in fumble avoidance between the Patriots and all 31 other teams. BenJarvus Green-Ellis didn't fumble once throughout his entire career with the Patriots, then all of a sudden when he joins the Bengals, he fumbles three times within the first two weeks!? Call it the Patriot Effect, but I highly doubt the deflated balls didn't play at least some part in that.

[garydellabate]

One thing it's not accounting for though is fumble counts. Look at the fumbles at it's pretty glaring something is going on. BenJarvus Green-Ellis didn't fumble once throughout his entire career with the Patriots, then all of a sudden when he joins the Bengals, he fumbles three times within the first two weeks!? Call it the Patriot Effect, but I highly doubt the deflated balls didn't play at least some part in that.

 

I'll go you one further in case dynasty or Amfootball want to counter with "its because BJGE was older, not as good, etc."

 

http://www.wsj.com/articles/patriots-always-keep-a-tight-grip-on-the-ball-1422054846

 

The below excerpt explains from 2010 to this past season.

 

Additionally, according to Stats, LLC, the six players who have played extensively for the Patriots and other teams in this span all fumbled far less frequently wearing the New England uniform. Including recovered fumbles, Danny Amendola, BenJarvus Green-Ellis, Danny Woodhead, Wes Welker, Brandon LaFell and LeGarrette Blount have lost the ball eight times in 1,482 touches for the Patriots since 2010, or once every 185.3 times. For their other teams, they fumbled 22 times in 1,701 touches (once every 77.3).

 

Edit: I know they bench fumblers and emphasize ball security but what team doesn't?

[BlueShoe]

I'll go you one further in case dynasty or Amfootball want to counter with "its because BJGE was older, not as good, etc."

 

http://www.wsj.com/articles/patriots-always-keep-a-tight-grip-on-the-ball-1422054846

 

The below excerpt explains from 2010 to this past season.

 

Additionally, according to Stats, LLC, the six players who have played extensively for the Patriots and other teams in this span all fumbled far less frequently wearing the New England uniform. Including recovered fumbles, Danny Amendola, BenJarvus Green-Ellis, Danny Woodhead, Wes Welker, Brandon LaFell and LeGarrette Blount have lost the ball eight times in 1,482 touches for the Patriots since 2010, or once every 185.3 times. For their other teams, they fumbled 22 times in 1,701 touches (once every 77.3).

 

Edit: I know they bench fumblers and emphasize ball security but what team doesn't?

 

I call this fact finding, and I want to hear from the NFL on this issue. If the NFL starts slapping people on the wrists over cheating then it would be terrible.

[ReMeDy]

I call this fact finding, and I want to hear from the NFL on this issue. If the NFL starts slapping people on the wrists over cheating then it would be terrible.

 

Regardless, once this deflation issue is stamped out for next season, I'll be anxious to see New England's fumble count. I won't count the Jimmy Garoppolo games, since I understand there might be some bad hand-off exchanges, or Jimmy simply won't protect the ball as well, but once Brady comes back, that's when I'm pulling out the stat-books.

[jvan1973]

posting by suspended member bababooey

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