DeflateGate: Brady suspension expected (mega merge / updated)

[amfootball]

You are trying to compare an entire era of a sport where multiple players on multiple teams were found to have used PED's compared to one player on one NFL team that has been caught cheating. So yes, I would agree that the two are not comparable.

So are you saying the Pats are the first and only team to ball tamper???

[Superman]

 

 

 

 

This part I found interesting in Peter King's article. He was saying that IF Brady tried to cheat, he was pretty bad at it.

 

Since the NFL allowed all teams to condition footballs the way they wanted for use in both home and road games in 2006, the idea was that quarterbacks could play with footballs in the same shape for 16 weekends, not eight. (Previously, road quarterbacks played with footballs broken in in whatever way the home team wished.) But road teams do not bring their own ballboys to games. So, if a home-team ballboy was doctoring the footballs in any way before the game, that’s not something that could happen on the road. Brady, of course, is suspected of having the balls doctored for him in the AFC title game, and it’d be naïve to think that this was the first game in which two longtime club employees messed with the footballs for Brady.

But if John Jastremski or Jim McNally have done any funny business with the balls over the past few years, the results sure don’t show it. Some telling numbers for Brady in the nine regular seasons between 2006 and 2014:

Passer Rating

Home Games 100.2

Road Games  99.7

Passing Yards

Home Games 271.8

Road Games  274.3 

TD-to-Interception Differential

Home Games Plus-96

Road Games  Plus-96 

Wouldn’t you figure that if Brady was getting such an edge by having footballs doctored before home games—and by the simple factor of home-field advantage—that, more probable than not, he’d be markedly better at home?

 

One thing that IS clear is that the action itself isn't a big deal, as shown by the dominance of Brady in the second half of the AFCCG as well as his Superbowl performance with perfectly regulated footballs. So people are really calling for a long suspension for supposedly lying? It's not even about the deflating anymore, it's his response to it that people are apparently upset about and I don't really get it. Its not about the integrity of the game anymore, its the apparent integrity of the guy.

 

 

So if he didn't clearly benefit from it, it's not a big deal...?

[The Old Crow]

Why? Blake is a former QB who played on multiple teams and said it was rampant. Brady's status as the best QB has nothing to do with this. It has to do with culture and the fact that the league by its own admission in the Wells report really does not think air pressure is a big deal which is why the process is so sloppy and inaccurate and also why there has only even been warnings and/or fines in regards to teams tampering in the history of the sport.

Blake played only on 2002 with the Ravens and was 4-6. If he did deflate footballs, it didn't help him in Baltimore. Nice try, and no advantages here. Like I said though, he did wrong , and both Blake and Brady should be DQ'ed from HOF consideration.

[The Old Crow]

So are you saying the Pats are the first and only team to ball tamper???

Like with Spygate, they seem to be the one always with their hand in the cookie jar.

[OffensivelyPC]

Yes but that does not prove tampering. The league messed this up when Walt did not gauge the balls pregame after losing track of them. And that is what IMO has made the Wells report so weak. He has nothing but hearsay from Walt and different sets of psi readings ...

There we go, back to this whole thing is the leagues' fault.  Please, spare me that tired routine.  The fact of the matter is, McNally knew better than to take the footballs, he decided to take them while Anderson was carrying out his other pregame duties, and from a scientific standpoint, the footballs were more probably than not deflated before kickoff.  That's on the Patriots and no one else.  If you don't want to get caught up in an investigation that has a fraudulent aspect to it, then don't do sketchy crap like the Patriots did.  It's really that simple.  

[amfootball]

Blake played only on 2002 with the Ravens and was 4-6. If he did deflate footballs, it didn't help him in Baltimore. Nice try, and no advantages here. Like I said though, he did wrong , and both Blake and Brady should be DQ'ed from HOF consideration.

So in your book cheating is only cheating if you win? Got it.

[Restored]

So are you saying the Pats are the first and only team to ball tamper???

 

It's more probable than not the Patriots were not the only to team to do this. But they are the only's ones that have gotten caught in both Spygate and Deflategate. I'd like to see your rationale with a police officer if you got pulled over for speeding.

 

"BUT OFFICER EVERYONE ELSE SPEEDS TOO!"

[The Old Crow]

There we go, back to this whole thing is the leagues' fault. Please, spare me that tired routine. The fact of the matter is, McNally knew better than to take the footballs, he decided to take them while Anderson was carrying out his other pregame duties, and from a scientific standpoint, the footballs were more probably than not deflated before kickoff. That's on the Patriots and no one else. If you don't want to get caught up in an investigation that has a fraudulent aspect to it, then don't do sketchy crap like the Patriots did. It's really that simple.

Let's see, leagues fault, media's fault, ball boys, Grigson, Harbaugh, Ravens , Colts, Jeff Blake, other team's PED users, Ray Lewis's antler spray, jealous opposing fans. Have I left anything out of the blame game ?

[ÅÐØNϧ 1]

Ok, so you are going to play the everyone does it card in terms of the roids? I will buy that. But let's not kid ourselves, all the QBs manipulate the balls and according to your former QB Blake, all QBs tamper with the balls in terms of pressure. Just this season we had ball tampering with the Vikings and no punishment. So you can't play both sides here. Sorry.

 

Once again not everyone lies & covers it up & does not cooperate just the Patriots . sorry neither can you .

[amfootball]

There we go, back to this whole thing is the leagues' fault.  Please, spare me that tired routine.  The fact of the matter is, McNally knew better than to take the footballs, he decided to take them while Anderson was carrying out his other pregame duties, and from a scientific standpoint, the footballs were more probably than not deflated before kickoff.  That's on the Patriots and no one else.  If you don't want to get caught up in an investigation that has a fraudulent aspect to it, then don't do sketchy crap like the Patriots did.  It's really that simple.  

I am not disagreeing but going to take a pee is not ball tampering. It could have been found out pregame if Walt took the balls and made the Pats play with the reserves. You do realize when Brady is suspended and appeals and it is over turned, this will be one of the mains reasons along with the different psi readings and hearsay on the pregame readings?

[ricker182]

Let's see, leagues fault, media's fault, ball boys, Grigson, Harbaugh, Ravens , Colts, Jeff Blake, other team's PED users, Ray Lewis's antler spray, jealous opposing fans. Have I left anything out of the blame game ?

The fact that they started blaming the Colts exhibits extreme sociopathic behavior.

[amfootball]

It's more probable than not the Patriots were not the only to team to do this. But they are the only's ones that have gotten caught in both Spygate and Deflategate. I'd like to see your rationale with a police officer if you got pulled over for speeding.

 

"BUT OFFICER EVERYONE ELSE SPEEDS TOO!"

Good heavens ... I think we are done.

[ÅÐØNϧ 1]

Let's see, leagues fault, media's fault, ball boys, Grigson, Harbaugh, Ravens , Colts, Jeff Blake, other team's PED users, Ray Lewis's antler spray, jealous opposing fans. Have I left anything out of the blame game ?

 

Yeah its George Bushs fault .

[The Old Crow]

So in your book cheating is only cheating if you win? Got it.

No, I told you they should both be punished. Blake played 13 seasons, is 2002 the only one ? That being said, since he said what he did, I would believe he did it all 13 seasons, like I believe Brady did for a long time. Throw the book at them both.

[ÅÐØNϧ 1]

I am not disagreeing but going to take a pee is not ball tampering. It could have been found out pregame if Walt took the balls and made the Pats play with the reserves. You do realize when Brady is suspended and appeals and it is over turned, this will be one of the mains reasons along with the different psi readings and hearsay on the pregame readings?

 

More lies Which Urinal did McNally use ?

[Restored]

Good heavens ... I think we are done.

 

I suppose I would too in the face of logic and facts.

[amfootball]

No, I told you they should both be punished. Blake played 13 seasons, is 2002 the only one ? That being said, since he said what he did, I would believe he did it all 13 seasons, like I believe Brady did for a long time. Throw the book at them both.

lol. The NFL never has thrown the book in its history at any team or player for tampering. Just warnings and fines. That is another thing Brady will use in his appeal to over turn any suspension along with the laughable Wells report ...

[The Old Crow]

lol. The NFL never has thrown the book in its history at any team or player for tampering. Just warnings and fines. That is another thing Brady will use in his appeal to over turn any suspension along with the laughable Wells report ...

He won't be laughing when he realizes his reputation is ruined !

[ÅÐØNϧ 1]

Good heavens ... I think we are done.

 

Why because everyone speeds too      :thmup:  Your argument thrown in your face don't make sense to you ?

 

After all everyone does it ..

[amfootball]

He won't be laughing when he realizes his reputation is ruined !

Anyways, enough of this chatter ...

 

How are you feeling about the Ravens off-season so far? Do you think they have done enough to make up for losing Nagata? What about the secondary? The Pats released Dennard and Arrington so I am getting the sense Bill is starting from scratch this year.

[Moose Of Woe]

More lies Which Urinal did McNally use ?

Didn't he use the ladies' room?

[PeterBowman]

How many hall of famers have been suspended for cheating?

[Girlzarefanstoo]

Read the article ...

Your own article states:

The league looked into the matter further. Without the aid of a $5M investigation and a corporate law firm, the league cleared the Chargers of violating a “a competitive rule.”

 

The writer of your article has an agenda (just like you do) so he doesn't research the entire episode, merely picks and chooses what he want to justify his conclusion (just like you do).  

 

"Per a source with knowledge of the situation, the fine was later overturned on appeal.

So the Chargers ultimately paid nothing.  And they ultimately were found to be not guilty of any violation of the rules, since the fine came not from the use of the towel but from the failure to produce the towel quickly enough once suspicion arose."  http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/02/04/chargers-ultimately-prevailed-in-appeal-of-towel-fine/

D E F L E C T I O N  doesn't change the fact your team has cheated, again.  

IF my Chargers had I wouldn't defend them.  PERIOD.

[ricker182]

How many hall of famers have been suspended for cheating?

I don't think this should disqualify him from the HOF. It's a joke anyway.

I do think he needs to pay the price now, though and come clean.

[Mouthfire]

Meh... 57 pages, and the only thing I got out of this thread is that AM is okay with cheating, but not okay with getting caught cheating. At that point, it's the league's fault, who caught the cheating, instead of the cheaters themselves.

Does that sum it up about right?

[corgi]

Your own article states:

The league looked into the matter further. Without the aid of a $5M investigation and a corporate law firm, the league cleared the Chargers of violating a “a competitive rule.”

 

The writer of your article has an agenda (just like you do) so he doesn't research the entire episode, merely picks and chooses what he want to justify his conclusion (just like you do).  

 

"Per a source with knowledge of the situation, the fine was later overturned on appeal.

So the Chargers ultimately paid nothing.  And they ultimately were found to be not guilty of any violation of the rules, since the fine came not from the use of the towel but from the failure to produce the towel quickly enough once suspicion arose."  http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/02/04/chargers-ultimately-prevailed-in-appeal-of-towel-fine/

D E F L E C T I O N  doesn't change the fact your team has cheated, again.  

IF my Chargers had I wouldn't defend them.  PERIOD.

How dare you use logic!

[Girlzarefanstoo]

So are you saying the Pats are the first and only team to ball tamper???

It doesn't matter if they are or aren't - they are the ones being investigated.  "More probably than not" is the language of guilt in the NFL so punishment will be handed down.

 

Other team's issues didn't warrant an investigation.

 

Sometimes investigations conclude no wrong doing (as the ultimate end up of the Chargers' towel issue you keep quoting).

 

When and if another team does likewise I trust another investigation will be conducted and the next team punished according to the rules.

 

Do you know how frantic, manic, erratic and illogical your reaction is getting?  

[The Old Crow]

Anyways, enough of this chatter ...

How are you feeling about the Ravens off-season so far? Do you think they have done enough to make up for losing Nagata? What about the secondary? The Pats released Dennard and Arrington so I am getting the sense Bill is starting from scratch this year.

I like the moves they have made, but they still need more secondary depth. It's your time in the box this week. You are the unofficial spokeswoman for the Patriots .

[amfootball]

I like the moves they have made, but they still need more secondary depth. It's your time in the box this week. You are the unofficial spokeswoman for the Patriots .

I think I may be on this site. lol.

 

I am more interested to see how far Brady takes this. His agent made it pretty clear that they will fight any type of suspension but there is also talk of a defamation suit too like Vilma. Should be highly entertaining.

[amfootball]

 

 

Do you know how frantic, manic, erratic and illogical your reaction is getting?  

lol. Have you read the threads? It is not just me. I am pretty sure of that.

 

But this is very entertaining ... we will see how it all unfolds when the ax drops ...

[jvan1973]

Read the article ...

It looks like you read this article about as throughly as you did the Wells report. It says right in it the fine was overturned in appeal

[The Old Crow]

I think I may be on this site. lol.

I am more interested to see how far Brady takes this. His agent made it pretty clear that they will fight any type of suspension but there is also talk of a defamation suit too like Vilma. Should be highly entertaining.

It's has been a very entertaining week in the forum for sure.

[ÅÐØNϧ 1]

Didn't he use the ladies' room?

 

He claimed he used the urinal . A lie

 

 

 

-Page 63: “During this interview, he explained that he did not use the bathroom in the Officials Locker Room because he did not want to disturb the officials… With respect to his decision to use the bathroom, McNally claimed that he has used the bathroom near the field entrance while in possession of the game balls many times. He said that on the day of the AFC Championship Game, he entered the bathroom, dropped the ball bags to his left, and used the urinal to his right. That bathroom, however, does not contain a urinal. Upon further questioning, McNally claimed that he did not pay attention to what type of fixture he used.”

[amfootball]

Your own article states:

The league looked into the matter further. Without the aid of a $5M investigation and a corporate law firm, the league cleared the Chargers of violating a “a competitive rule.”

 

The writer of your article has an agenda (just like you do) so he doesn't research the entire episode, merely picks and chooses what he want to justify his conclusion (just like you do).  

 

"Per a source with knowledge of the situation, the fine was later overturned on appeal.

So the Chargers ultimately paid nothing.  And they ultimately were found to be not guilty of any violation of the rules, since the fine came not from the use of the towel but from the failure to produce the towel quickly enough once suspicion arose."  http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/02/04/chargers-ultimately-prevailed-in-appeal-of-towel-fine/

D E F L E C T I O N  doesn't change the fact your team has cheated, again.  

IF my Chargers had I wouldn't defend them.  PERIOD.

So that graph you quoted pretty much sounds like "more probably than not" they cheated but got off on a technicality. And let me ask you, if the Pats did not turn over pine tarred towels, how do you think the league would have proceeded?

[Girlzarefanstoo]

Good heavens ... I think we are done.

We can only wish you were...

[ColtRider]

Meh... 57 pages, and the only thing I got out of this thread is that AM is okay with cheating, but not okay with getting caught cheating. At that point, it's the league's fault, who caught the cheating, instead of the cheaters themselves.

Does that sum it up about right?

Pretty much, Mouthfire. Except another small detail as well ... It's the Colts fault all of this happened!

[ÅÐØNϧ 1]

He claimed he used the urinal . A lie

I forgot his first lie was he went straight to the field without a escort -  His job description is locker room attendant so actually he had no business messing with the balls any way & the NFL has had issues with him before I believe in 2004 .

[PeterBowman]

I swear the lengths most(not all) Pats fans go to defend the team in this situation is almost cult like

[ÅÐØNϧ 1]

So that graph you quoted pretty much sounds like "more probably than not" they cheated but got off on a technicality. And let me ask you, if the Pats did not turn over pine tarred towels, how do you think the league would have proceeded?

 

The Op is Tom Brady being suspended if your unable to stay on topic maybe you should step away from the key board .

 

Which Urinal did McNally use ?

[Girlzarefanstoo]

So that graph you quoted pretty much sounds like "more probably than not" they cheated but got off on a technicality. And let me ask you, if the Pats did not turn over pine tarred towels, how do you think the league would have proceeded?

You do not know the "facts" in this case.  You have grabbed an article, ASSUMED what you think happened and are running with it.  Every "fact" you state is not correct.  Seriously, you are so off-base it's scary to watch you.  

 

You said "read the article" but you must not have or you read/hear what you want to hear and ignore the rest.  I suspect the later.  

 

The original league findings were:

1.  Towels weren't illegal.

2.  No substance on the balls.

3.  The towels weren't handed over quickly enough to the refs (but they WERE handed over, during the game).

 

The team countered that the equipment manager did not realize what the ref was asking for and why.

 

The team's appeal was upheld and no charges, no fines were levied.

 

Again, you are dead wrong.