Lions announce Suh will not be Franchise tagged

[CanuckColt]

Expect Grigson to make a run and getting Suh and then fail to get him.

Then he will go out and sign 3 mediocre dummies instead.

...standard Grigson operating procedure...but he will spend a ton of Irsay's money for marginal upgrades/downgrades.

[azcolt]

As an NU alum and rabid Husker fan, all I can say is Suh is CRAZY.

[NewColtsFan]

For whatever it's worth....

 

Former Tampa Bay GM Mark Domick says that he hears that while Detroit will NOT Franchise Tag Suh,  they might just use the Transition Tag to retrain him.

 

In short, the Transition Tag gives Detroit the Right to Match.

 

If true,   then that would be that.

[corgi]

For whatever it's worth....

 

Former Tampa Bay GM Mark Domick says that he hears that while Detroit will NOT Franchise Tag Suh,  they might just use the Transition Tag to retrain him.

 

In short, the Transition Tag gives Detroit the Right to Match.

 

If true,   then that would be that.

Then a team would just have to offer him an insane front loaded contract that would screw the Lions cap up and not make it possible to match. A team like Jax or Oakland has the cap space to make that happen.

[NewColtsFan]

Then a team would just have to offer him an insane front loaded contract that would screw the Lions cap up and not make it possible to match. A team like Jax or Oakland has the cap space to make that happen.

 

You're right.    But it also might make it more difficult for the Colts to make an unmatchable offer for Suh.    With the Luck contract and the rest of the 2012 class coming up,   we can't screw things up for Suh.

[Doctor Mad]

Here's another approach.  give Suh $10mill per yr for 6 yrs, guaranteed.  A 6 yr $100 mil contract is not guaranteed.  this will help with our cap space and tie him up for remainder of his career.  thoughts?

[Superman]

Then a team would just have to offer him an insane front loaded contract that would screw the Lions cap up and not make it possible to match. A team like Jax or Oakland has the cap space to make that happen.

 

I could see a team doing $30m in Year 1 for Suh. I don't think the Lions would match that.

 

But it's moot, as they aren't going to tag him. Not even the transition tag.

[Superman]

Here's another approach.  give Suh $10mill per yr for 6 yrs, guaranteed.  A 6 yr $100 mil contract is not guaranteed.  this will help with our cap space and tie him up for remainder of his career.  thoughts?

 

Why would he do that, when he'll probably get $50m guaranteed in the first three years of whatever deal he signs?

[backshoulderfade]

I could see a team doing $30m in Year 1 for Suh. I don't think the Lions would match that.

But it's moot, as they aren't going to tag him. Not even the transition tag.

This is what I would expect if the Colts were to sign him.

[Doctor Mad]

If he gets $100mil for 6 yrs and he gets hurt or cut, he loses $.  We can roll the dice that he doesn't get hurt and guarantee $10,il per yr.  He get guaranteed moneys, we get a great player without busting the cap space.

[Superman]

If he gets $100mil for 6 yrs and he gets hurt or cut, he loses $.  We can roll the dice that he doesn't get hurt and guarantee $10,il per yr.  He get guaranteed moneys, we get a great player without busting the cap space.

 

He has a rare opportunity to be the highest paid defensive player in the league. I don't think he's going to turn that down out of fear of being cut or injured at some point in the future.

 

I get your angle. I just don't think it's doable.

[Superman]

This is what I would expect if the Colts were to sign him.

 

I think that's too difficult for the Colts. Including our own FAs and draft picks, and a regular season buffer, that's pretty much all of our cap space in 2015. 

 

The Raiders would be the team to try that.

[Clem-Dog]

In short, the Transition Tag gives Detroit the Right to Match.

If true, then that would be that.

No wonder free agents are overpaid. The process encourages it.

They'd have 7 days to match and I am sure they'd use every minute of it tying up funds.

I'd offer 6/90 for him with 40-45 guaranteed on a front loaded deal.

[corgi]

You're right.    But it also might make it more difficult for the Colts to make an unmatchable offer for Suh.    With the Luck contract and the rest of the 2012 class coming up,   we can't screw things up for Suh.

As much as I like the idea of Suh, I wouldn't want them to make an insane unmatchable offer. Imagine if they did and he got seriously injured. I know that's a risk every team takes with every player, but a 3 million dollar season ending injury and a 30+ million dollar season ending injury aren't even in the same ballpark. I'd be okay with a large contract that is spread out and possibly front heavy.

[TKnight24]

I will admit that a D Line of Suh, Chapman, Art Jones would be nasty

Chapman isn't that good. Nothing more than a rotation guy at best. Not fit to be a starter

[Doctor Mad]

well, if we can't come up with a creative way to pay and keep Suh, then we can't afford him.  Why not go after Fairly and Knighton.  Seems cost might equal what you would pay Suh, only you get 2 positions strengthened.

[corgi]

well, if we can't come up with a creative way to pay and keep Suh, then we can't afford him.  Why not go after Fairly and Knighton.  Seems cost might equal what you would pay Suh, only you get 2 positions strengthened.

I'm almost certain Knighton goes to Oakland.

[Doctor Mad]

what about Williams fro Arizona?  he's a FA?

[TheBlueAndWhite]

Suh is either going to Oakland or Jacksonville

[pgt_rob]

For whatever it's worth....

 

You sure love throwing that line around, don't ya?

[esmort]

Here's another approach.  give Suh $10mill per yr for 6 yrs, guaranteed.  A 6 yr $100 mil contract is not guaranteed.  this will help with our cap space and tie him up for remainder of his career.  thoughts?

 

To do what you are trying to do would still require more than 10 million per year, but I am sure some players in hindsight wish they would have structured there deal similar to that strategy.  I don't think Suh would ever do it though, he is willing to take the risk to make the huge money because even if worst case scenario does happen he still comes away with big money. 

[dw49]

I think that's too difficult for the Colts. Including our own FAs and draft picks, and a regular season buffer, that's pretty much all of our cap space in 2015. 

 

The Raiders would be the team to try that.

 

Yes and they and the Jags have to splurge a bit this year or they will be in violation of CBA regarding minimum spending.

 

Colts could probably work him in but I'm doubting they would want to commit so much future cap to a DT. He's a great player but I don't think he has quite the same effect on a game as JJ Watt. Furthermore unless Grigson does a complete reversal in the type free agents he signs , it further makes this signing unlikely. But I would concede that it is not 100% we might not make a run at him. I just don't think it's a logical way , everything considered to us to get over this last hump.

[Superman]

Yes and they and the Jags have to splurge a bit this year or they will be in violation of CBA regarding minimum spending.

 

Colts could probably work him in but I'm doubting they would want to commit so much future cap to a DT. He's a great player but I don't think he has quite the same effect on a game as JJ Watt. Furthermore unless Grigson does a complete reversal in the type free agents he signs , it further makes this signing unlikely. But I would concede that it is not 100% we might not make a run at him. I just don't think it's a logical way , everything considered to us to get over this last hump.

 

Agreed all around. Especially on his impact/value compared to JJ Watt. 

[CanuckColt]

He's going to want $20 a year.

May be able to sign him for 17.5...he just wants more than Watt (16.6).

Would you rather have 3 guys like Waldo for 5.5 each?

[Restored]

First of all the Colts don't spend "big money" on these guys. Grigson structures contracts well. RJF's deal was really 2 yr 11 million when all was said and done. That is nowhere near the 18-20 million Suh will be making next year.

Landry and Walden both got monster deals for the caliber of player they both are. And even with RJF (was a big fan of him as a guy), the Colts paid 5.5 million a year for backup/rotational DT.

My point is, instead of throwing inflated contracts at mid-level player(s), take that money and get maybe 1 or 2 big-time players that will truly impact your team. Suh could be one of those players.

[NewColtsFan]

The Colts have got to stop throwing money at mediocre players and expecting big-time results (Walden, Landry). Knighton and McPhee are both mediocre players in comparison to Suh. In fact, McPhee is a pass-rushing specialist and wouldn't do much to help cure the run defense problem the Colts have right now.

 

Suh is one of those few players that can make your defense WAY better overnight. He is a game-wrecker and would completely change the way teams play the Colts.

 

The Colts want to fix their problems via free agency? Stop spending big money on these mediocre players and start spending big-time money on big-time players. The window will not be open forever just because the team has Luck.

 

You know who spent big money on free agents last year?    Tampa Bay.   They finished 2-14.

 

New Orleans spent big on the safety Jarius Byrd and he got hurt.

 

Two teams traded for Percy Harvin and both of them deeply regret it.

 

Cleveland signed OLB Paul Kruger and he didn't give them very much.

 

Spending big money on big name players is fun for fans.   They think it means instant Super Bowl.

 

It rarely works out that way.   

[NewColtsFan]

You sure love throwing that line around, don't ya?

For what it's worth....    I do!   

[loudnproudcolt]

Suh is going to be offered 17M by the Raiders, Jaguars, and maybe the Jets. First they have so much cap room, plus with the CBA guidelines, all three of these teams are significantly under the 89% threshold to be met by 2016. Question is, will he take less to play on a contender, and how much less. I would like to have him, and we could frontload it easily, but not at 17M. I would rather have Knighton, McPhee (who I really don't like for what he will cost, but for comparison sake) and Cardinals DT Williams, and you could have those four for just a little more than 17M/yr. Plus they are all high quality players!

[Chucklez]

Expect Grigson to make a run and getting Suh and then fail to get him.

Then he will go out and sign 3 mediocre dummies instead.

...standard Grigson operating procedure...but he will spend a ton of Irsay's money for marginal upgrades/downgrades.

Right, because Vontae was a total flop right?

[Restored]

You know who spent big money on free agents last year?    Tampa Bay.   They finished 2-14.

 

New Orleans spent big on the safety Jarius Byrd and he got hurt.

 

Two teams traded for Percy Harvin and both of them deeply regret it.

 

Cleveland signed OLB Paul Kruger and he didn't give them very much.

 

Spending big money on big name players is fun for fans.   They think it means instant Super Bowl.

 

It rarely works out that way.   

 

Every single team you mentioned doesn't have a winning nucleus in place like the Colts do outside of Seattle (Harvin wasn't going to make or break them anyway). You know what other team spent big in free agency this past year? The New England Patriots. How did that work out for them?

 

The Colts already have a good core of players and coaches, they just need a few pieces to truly make them elite. Suh could be that piece.

[BleedBlu8792]

You know who spent big money on free agents last year? Tampa Bay. They finished 2-14.

New Orleans spent big on the safety Jarius Byrd and he got hurt.

Two teams traded for Percy Harvin and both of them deeply regret it.

Cleveland signed OLB Paul Kruger and he didn't give them very much.

Spending big money on big name players is fun for fans. They think it means instant Super Bowl.

It rarely works out that way.

?? Tampa is still in rebuild mode with no OL, QB, or anything from the DL back. Also I'm not quite sure who they qent out and bought last year but it wasn't very significant - money or name wise.

Cleveland couldn't figure out their QB situation and panicked bad after week 8 when they went with Manziel. They were fine with Hoyer even with his 2 or 3 game skid. They were doing quite well up until that point.

And Kruger EASILY had the best year of his career last year. The guy was exactly what they were hoping to get.

To just sit on the money is asinine. Sure, it can be spent wrongly, but I'd rather spend money and try to make my roster better. There is never a guarantee but I don't see the reason in not trying.

[Dark Superman]

May be able to sign him for 17.5...he just wants more than Watt (16.6).

Would you rather have 3 guys like Waldo for 5.5 each?

Lol. I'll take Suh for 17 million a year. Dude is a true difference maker.

[Chucklez]

You know who spent big money on free agents last year?    Tampa Bay.   They finished 2-14.

 

New Orleans spent big on the safety Jarius Byrd and he got hurt.

 

Two teams traded for Percy Harvin and both of them deeply regret it.

 

Cleveland signed OLB Paul Kruger and he didn't give them very much.

 

Spending big money on big name players is fun for fans.   They think it means instant Super Bowl.

 

It rarely works out that way.   

You know who else spent big on FA's last year?

The Patriots... where did they finish?.....

[BleedBlu8792]

You know who else spent big on FA's last year?

The Patriots... where did they finish?.....

Seattle also won with Percy the year before.

[Valpo2004]

Isn't it fairly sizeable itself though? 15 million or so, correct?

 

Roughly that. . . sizeable but a huge discount compared to what he will get after his extension.  

[NFLfan]

Suh is either going to Oakland or Jacksonville

Why not the Jets? They have over $50M of cap space and could get $10M more if they cut Percy Harvin, which is likely. Last year there was speculation that Suh wanted to go to NY but to the Giants. Giants won't sign him but the Jets could. With their new GM and their defensive-minded head coach, I could see that happening. The media and fans would love him.

[wig]

You know who spent big money on free agents last year?    Tampa Bay.   They finished 2-14.

 

New Orleans spent big on the safety Jarius Byrd and he got hurt.

 

Two teams traded for Percy Harvin and both of them deeply regret it.

 

Cleveland signed OLB Paul Kruger and he didn't give them very much.

 

Spending big money on big name players is fun for fans.   They think it means instant Super Bowl.

 

It rarely works out that way.   

 

The only guy on that list that is anywhere close to being one of the best at his position is Byrd, and he was hurt, so it's hard to say if that was a good move for the Saints or not.  

 

Suh is one of the best defensive players in the NFL, at any position, not Paul Kruger.  He would change the entire attitude of the defense.  It also doesn't matter if he plays in a 34 or 43, because he gets double teamed either way.

[wig]

Why not the Jets? They have over $50M of cap space and could get $10M more if they cut Percy Harvin, which is likely. Last year there was speculation that Suh wanted to go to NY but to the Giants. Giants won't sign him but the Jets could. With their new GM and their defensive-minded head coach, I could see that happening. The media and fans would love him.

 

Jets have a great D line and need to spend on offense.

[NewColtsFan]

Every single team you mentioned doesn't have a winning nucleus in place like the Colts do outside of Seattle (Harvin wasn't going to make or break them anyway). You know what other team spent big in free agency this past year? The New England Patriots. How did that work out for them?

 

The Colts already have a good core of players and coaches, they just need a few pieces to truly make them elite. Suh could be that piece.

 

NE bought one guy -- Revis -- and it worked great for them.   But year in and year our NE almost never goes in for expensive big name players in Free Agency.

[NewColtsFan]

?? Tampa is still in rebuild mode with no OL, QB, or anything from the DL back. Also I'm not quite sure who they qent out and bought last year but it wasn't very significant - money or name wise.

Cleveland couldn't figure out their QB situation and panicked bad after week 8 when they went with Manziel. They were fine with Hoyer even with his 2 or 3 game skid. They were doing quite well up until that point.

And Kruger EASILY had the best year of his career last year. The guy was exactly what they were hoping to get.

To just sit on the money is asinine. Sure, it can be spent wrongly, but I'd rather spend money and try to make my roster better. There is never a guarantee but I don't see the reason in not trying.

 

Tampa spent more than $140 million on players last year.    Cleveland is Cleveland.   As for Kruger,  you're right, he had a very nice year last year.    But....   that came after a very, very poor first year in Cleveland.   One of his worst.    The deal didn't look so good after Year One.

 

And who is talking about "sitting on the money"....?       We're talking about spending it.    Thread after thread after thread is all about who we spend it on.