Who else is going to be released?

[theanarchist]

In looking at the contracts of some of the players and the savings that it may allow, who do you guys think stand a reasonable chance to released?

 

Personally I think #1 on the list is Don Thomas. He's suffered 2 devastating leg injuries and I would think there would be serious doubt about whether he could even play at this point. He would seem to be a logical choice for release.

 

#2 I think would have to be Gosder Cherilus. He also has health concerns and has a huge cap #. Not sure how all the dates work but I gather that releasing him at some point during the off season would have significant savings on the cap.

 

#3. Trent Richardson. All signs seem to point in the direction of him being released. Again, not sure when is the best time for cap savings for him to be released but I cant see him being on the team after his suspension and his lack of production as well as some of the reports regarding his weight.

 

Thoughts?

[pgt_rob]

Your #1 and #3 will be next. I think we keep Gosder but I could be wrong. Nobody knows.

[backshoulderfade]

We lose cap room by cutting Gosder. Keep him on the roster.

[Dustin]

We lose cap room by cutting Gosder. Keep him on the roster.

Not as a June-1st cut.

[backshoulderfade]

Not as a June-1st cut.

Get rid of him!

[Bluefire4]

I think we only cut Trent and give Thomas and Gosder one more year. Do we gain anything cutting Trent?

[theanarchist]

I think we only cut Trent and give Thomas and Gosder one more year. Do we gain anything cutting Trent?

I don't think its much if we do. Maybe 1m

[theanarchist]

I think we only cut Trent and give Thomas and Gosder one more year. Do we gain anything cutting Trent?

I was wrong. I just looked it up, its 3m

[loudnproudcolt]

I agree with Thomas, and Richardson. Shawn Phillips saves us 2.7M, and he made no difference last year, so he should be cut. I know is sounds cold, but Vick has had two knee blow outs, and although only 550K, I think we need to release him also.

 

As far as Gosder goes, I don't believe even a June 1st cut gives us any relief this year, in fact it would cost us money. If we cut him this offseason, it costs us 1.8M against the cap, and then there is a dead cap hit of 8.7M. From what I understand, the June 1st cut allows us to take that dead cap hit and spread it out over 3 years. So we would lose 1.8M on cap charges, plus 2.9M if it is a June 1st cut. If we cut him outright, it is a cap charge of 10.5M, so we should hope he is able to play this year. Next year is the year to release him, although we still have a dead cap charge in 2016 of 5.8M, but as a June 1st designation, it will be 1.9M over 3 years and we save 4.1 in cap charges the year. His contract was strutured for him to be available at least 3 years, so lets hope he is better after all the time off.

 

Info. I got came from OTC.

[theanarchist]

I agree with Thomas, and Richardson. Shawn Phillips saves us 2.7M, and he made no difference last year, so he should be cut. I know is sounds cold, but Vick has had two knee blow outs, and although only 550K, I think we need to release him also.

 

As far as Gosder goes, I don't believe even a June 1st cut gives us any relief this year, in fact it would cost us money. If we cut him this offseason, it costs us 1.8M against the cap, and then there is a dead cap hit of 8.7M. From what I understand, the June 1st cut allows us to take that dead cap hit and spread it out over 3 years. So we would lose 1.8M on cap charges, plus 2.9M if it is a June 1st cut. If we cut him outright, it is a cap charge of 10.5M, so we should hope he is able to play this year. Next year is the year to release him, although we still have a dead cap charge in 2016 of 5.8M, but as a June 1st designation, it will be 1.9M over 3 years and we save 4.1 in cap charges the year. His contract was strutured for him to be available at least 3 years, so lets hope he is better after all the time off.

 

Info. I got came from OTC.

Ya, I forgot about Phillips. He needs to be cut. No way he's worth almost 3m. Heck he brought nothing to the table.

[theanarchist]

Lot of dead weight on this team: Richardson, Thomas, Phillips, and Gosder isn't exactly dead weight but he had a poor year and I'm sure the injury had something to do with that but you have to get more out these guys. Those guys alone are account for probably somewhere close to 17 million in cap space.

[loudnproudcolt]

I also would cut RJF if he does not agree to a pay cut. He is a 3M player max, not a 6M player. He was overpaid. We have plenty of guards, so I think Lance Louis should go, he is 1M we save, and releasing Cribbs is a must. How many punts did he fumble in the playoffs. He saves us another 1M on the cap!

 

My final list for cuts that are a must: Richardson, Phillips,Thomas, Cribbs, and Louis. That saves us approx. 11.2M in cap space for this year, and very small dead money hits for all. Plus each one of them except Louis brought nothing to the table, and Richardson nothing the last two seasons!

11.2M in cap space is a huge amount. That allows two very high quality players in FA, or goes towards extensions

[C0LT5]

Call me dumb but cutting people just for the cap savings seems ludicrous when you have plenty of cap space. Since guard is a position of need, what's the harm in letting Thomas come back? If he isn't up to snuff cut him. Post June 1st cutting Cherilus would save us money, but it would only count after June 1, so most of the good free agents would be gone anyway. I say we keep him especially since we don't have a replacement. TRich needs to go. Cribbs is already a free agent. Phillips can go too.

[rock8591]

Call me dumb but cutting people just for the cap savings seems ludicrous when you have plenty of cap space. Since guard is a position of need, what's the harm in letting Thomas come back? If he isn't up to snuff cut him. Post June 1st cutting Cherilus would save us money, but it would only count after June 1, so most of the good free agents would be gone anyway. I say we keep him especially since we don't have a replacement. TRich needs to go. Cribbs is already a free agent. Phillips can go too.

 

Thomas played 1.5 games the past 2 years. Not a good negotiating point if one's trying to make its way on a roster.

[COLTS449]

Trent Richardson, Donald Thomas, Shawn Phillips for sure, and possibly Cherilus.

[COLTS449]

BTW, I wouldn't mind cutting Thomas, then re-signing him to a league minimum deal to be a backup. We might get a steel.

[C0LT5]

Thomas played 1.5 games the past 2 years. Not a good negotiating point if one's trying to make its way on a roster.

 

He's already signed, no need to negotiate.

[Smurphy1]

BTW, I wouldn't mind cutting Thomas, then re-signing him to a league minimum deal to be a backup. We might get a steel.

 

I don't think you can do that.

[ProblChld32]

In looking at the contracts of some of the players and the savings that it may allow, who do you guys think stand a reasonable chance to released?

 

Personally I think #1 on the list is Don Thomas. He's suffered 2 devastating leg injuries and I would think there would be serious doubt about whether he could even play at this point. He would seem to be a logical choice for release.

 

#2 I think would have to be Gosder Cherilus. He also has health concerns and has a huge cap #. Not sure how all the dates work but I gather that releasing him at some point during the off season would have significant savings on the cap.

 

#3. Trent Richardson. All signs seem to point in the direction of him being released. Again, not sure when is the best time for cap savings for him to be released but I cant see him being on the team after his suspension and his lack of production as well as some of the reports regarding his weight.

 

Thoughts?

 

I agree with all three, i think you nailed it!

[csmopar]

I don't think you can do that.

Im not sure either way, I think they have to be on the market for so long or something

[COLTS449]

I don't think you can do that.

 

I don't think you can right away. What I meant is I don't think any team would pick him up. Then we could sign him back late for probably league minimum.

[SteelCityColt]

I agree with Thomas, and Richardson. Shawn Phillips saves us 2.7M, and he made no difference last year, so he should be cut. I know is sounds cold, but Vick has had two knee blow outs, and although only 550K, I think we need to release him also.

 

As far as Gosder goes, I don't believe even a June 1st cut gives us any relief this year, in fact it would cost us money. If we cut him this offseason, it costs us 1.8M against the cap, and then there is a dead cap hit of 8.7M. From what I understand, the June 1st cut allows us to take that dead cap hit and spread it out over 3 years. So we would lose 1.8M on cap charges, plus 2.9M if it is a June 1st cut. If we cut him outright, it is a cap charge of 10.5M, so we should hope he is able to play this year. Next year is the year to release him, although we still have a dead cap charge in 2016 of 5.8M, but as a June 1st designation, it will be 1.9M over 3 years and we save 4.1 in cap charges the year. His contract was strutured for him to be available at least 3 years, so lets hope he is better after all the time off.

 

Info. I got came from OTC.

 

Slightly pedantic but he's only had one knee injury, this season was a torn Achilles. 

[BOTT]

Call me dumb but cutting people just for the cap savings seems ludicrous when you have plenty of cap space. Since guard is a position of need, what's the harm in letting Thomas come back? If he isn't up to snuff cut him. Post June 1st cutting Cherilus would save us money, but it would only count after June 1, so most of the good free agents would be gone anyway. I say we keep him especially since we don't have a replacement. TRich needs to go. Cribbs is already a free agent. Phillips can go too.

The harm is Thomas won't be available because he will suffer another season ending injury

[Superman]

We lose cap room by cutting Gosder. Keep him on the roster.

 

If you designate him a post-June 1 release, you save $4m against the cap in 2015, and $4.1m in 2016.

 

I think we only cut Trent and give Thomas and Gosder one more year. Do we gain anything cutting Trent?

 

Richardson's salary of $3.18m is guaranteed, but that guarantee reportedly can be voided due to his suspension. That hasn't been confirmed yet. At this point, cutting Richardson only gains an extra roster spot, but that might be worth it.

 

Im not sure either way, I think they have to be on the market for so long or something

 

Donald Thomas would have to clear waivers, then he'd be free to sign with any team, including the Colts. Takes 1-2 days to clear waivers, depending on what time he's released. But the real reason we should waive him is because if he gets hurt again during the offseason, we're stuck with him for 2015. So we should either waive him, or renegotiate his final year's salary down from $3.5m to vet minimum, which is $870K for a 7 year vet. I have no faith that he'll be able to last the season, so I vote for waiving him.

[Superman]

I agree with Thomas, and Richardson. Shawn Phillips saves us 2.7M, and he made no difference last year, so he should be cut. I know is sounds cold, but Vick has had two knee blow outs, and although only 550K, I think we need to release him also.

 

As far as Gosder goes, I don't believe even a June 1st cut gives us any relief this year, in fact it would cost us money. If we cut him this offseason, it costs us 1.8M against the cap, and then there is a dead cap hit of 8.7M. From what I understand, the June 1st cut allows us to take that dead cap hit and spread it out over 3 years. So we would lose 1.8M on cap charges, plus 2.9M if it is a June 1st cut. If we cut him outright, it is a cap charge of 10.5M, so we should hope he is able to play this year. Next year is the year to release him, although we still have a dead cap charge in 2016 of 5.8M, but as a June 1st designation, it will be 1.9M over 3 years and we save 4.1 in cap charges the year. His contract was strutured for him to be available at least 3 years, so lets hope he is better after all the time off.

 

Info. I got came from OTC.

 

Some clarification:

 

A post-June 1 designation allows you to split the unamortized bonus money into two pieces (not over three years). Cherilus has $8.7m of unamortized bonus. If we release him without the designation, we'd eat that entire chunk in 2015, and it would take his cap hit from $6.9m to $8.7m, costing us $1.8m in cap space in 2015. However, if we use the designation, his cap hit in 2015 goes from $6.9m down to $2.9m, and his cap hit in 2016 goes from $9.9m to $5.8m. So you save a total of $8.1m against the cap over the next two seasons. And in 2017, you're done with his contract entirely.

 

I'm of the opinion that he's damaged goods at this point. I don't think it makes sense to keep him. Using the designation is just common sense, IMO.

[C0LT5]

The harm is Thomas won't be available because he will suffer another season ending injury

 

Same was said about Toler, he lasted the year.

[BOTT]

Same was said about Toler, he lasted the year.

Thomas has around 20 starts in his career and 3 season ending injuries

[rock8591]

Realistically: cut Landry (did), TRich, Donald Thomas, restructure RJF.

 

Ideally: cut Cherilus, use the money to sign Orlando Franklin to play RT. RG in the draft.

[Superman]

Realistically: cut Landry (did), TRich, Donald Thomas, restructure RJF.

 

Ideally: cut Cherilus, use the money to sign Orlando Franklin to play RT. RG in the draft.

 

Why would you want Orlando Franklin to play RT?

[krunk]

Franklin is not great at tackle. Much better at guard

[esmort]

I think Cherilus is the biggest question mark since we don't know exactly what condition his knee is in and what other type of injuries are at play  .... how healthy will he be next season?  His knee is definitely on its last leg so to speak, but was his issue this last season more a result of his knee or was it a combination of other injuries? 

 

I tend to think he should be a post-june 1st cut ... but, depending on the injuries I am afraid the Colts may try to squeeze one more year out of him. Hopefully they have a solid plan B if they go that direction. 

[Coffeedrinker]

Josh McNary

D'Qwell Jackson

Ahmed Bradshaw 

 

Oh, my bad I thought you meant released from jail.

[CanuckColt]

Thomas has around 20 starts in his career and 3 season ending injuries

Yep...we really should not keep Thomas.  It gives us the illusion that we have a player when we don't...we just have another injury waiting to happen and a roster spot that could be occupied by a contributor.

[Dark Superman]

I think we only cut Trent and give Thomas and Gosder one more year. Do we gain anything cutting Trent?

I believe a little over 3 million.

[Dark Superman]

Yep...we really should not keep Thomas.  It gives us the illusion that we have a player when we don't...we just have another injury waiting to happen and a roster spot that could be occupied by a contributor.

I had high hopes for this guy the year he signed here, but all of those hopes have been washed away. Release him and upgrade the position through free agency.

[mintor]

In looking at the contracts of some of the players and the savings that it may allow, who do you guys think stand a reasonable chance to released?

 

Personally I think #1 on the list is Don Thomas. He's suffered 2 devastating leg injuries and I would think there would be serious doubt about whether he could even play at this point. He would seem to be a logical choice for release.

 

#2 I think would have to be Gosder Cherilus. He also has health concerns and has a huge cap #. Not sure how all the dates work but I gather that releasing him at some point during the off season would have significant savings on the cap.

 

#3. Trent Richardson. All signs seem to point in the direction of him being released. Again, not sure when is the best time for cap savings for him to be released but I cant see him being on the team after his suspension and his lack of production as well as some of the reports regarding his weight.

 

Thoughts?

 

 

 

all 3 

 

1. save millions

 

2.  cost use 1.6 m on cap  save 6 million.

 

 

3. he save us 3m

[Jdubu]

If you designate him a post-June 1 release, you save $4m against the cap in 2015, and $4.1m in 2016.

Richardson's salary of $3.18m is guaranteed, but that guarantee reportedly can be voided due to his suspension. That hasn't been confirmed yet. At this point, cutting Richardson only gains an extra roster spot, but that might be worth it.

Donald Thomas would have to clear waivers, then he'd be free to sign with any team, including the Colts. Takes 1-2 days to clear waivers, depending on what time he's released. But the real reason we should waive him is because if he gets hurt again during the offseason, we're stuck with him for 2015. So we should either waive him, or renegotiate his final year's salary down from $3.5m to vet minimum, which is $870K for a 7 year vet. I have no faith that he'll be able to last the season, so I vote for waiving him.

He has only shown us a few game tapes in playing with the Colts, they were good tapes but what I would like to see done is renegotiate his contract to the vet min as you said and give him the opportunity to receive his entire check by playing incentives. I think it's a win-win as he gets a game check if he plays that I doubt any other team offers him any significant deal and we get a chance to see if he can play healthy again. He kind of owes the team 2 years of salary for not playing but I also understand that's not the way it works in the NFL. It would however be a nice thing to happen.

[Jdubu]

Some clarification:

A post-June 1 designation allows you to split the unamortized bonus money into two pieces (not over three years). Cherilus has $8.7m of unamortized bonus. If we release him without the designation, we'd eat that entire chunk in 2015, and it would take his cap hit from $6.9m to $8.7m, costing us $1.8m in cap space in 2015. However, if we use the designation, his cap hit in 2015 goes from $6.9m down to $2.9m, and his cap hit in 2016 goes from $9.9m to $5.8m. So you save a total of $8.1m against the cap over the next two seasons. And in 2017, you're done with his contract entirely.

I'm of the opinion that he's damaged goods at this point. I don't think it makes sense to keep him. Using the designation is just common sense, IMO.

I know we have disagreed about this cut several times as I don't believe we will cut Gosder but in the event one of us is wrong, the bet is a beer will have to be consumed for the winner and the loser, deal?

[ColtsBlueFL]

Not as a June-1st cut.

 

True, but we have to pay the piper sooner or later.  That just makes it later.  I'm not totally clear on the rule, but after June 1, the acceleration of bonus proration in future contract years is delayed until the following season. (5,800,000 in 2016). So we have to hold Cherilus 6.9 mil salary on roster until June 2, then we pick up 4 million in cap space when base salary comes off.  I think teams can also designate two players as post June 1 cuts and actually release them earlier. Not sure if we have done that with anybody yet.

 

With Thomas, I think we can clear 3.25 million of his 3.75 million cap hit in 2015.  With Trent, we eat 3.185 million in salary unless the team wins against the NFLPA for breach of contract and get out without having to pay anything.

 

EDIT: Oops, now see this was covered  by Supe...

[Superman]

He has only shown us a few game tapes in playing with the Colts, they were good tapes but what I would like to see done is renegotiate his contract to the vet min as you said and give him the opportunity to receive his entire check by playing incentives. I think it's a win-win as he gets a game check if he plays that I doubt any other team offers him any significant deal and we get a chance to see if he can play healthy again. He kind of owes the team 2 years of salary for not playing but I also understand that's not the way it works in the NFL. It would however be a nice thing to happen.

 

That's a fair compromise. If he plays in a certain amount of games, he could get a bonus, if he gets postseason honors, he gets another bonus... etc. But he has to take a base of vet minimum, and any incentives earned are retroactive and don't hit until after the season. He's said he wants to stay with the team, so maybe he'd be open.