Why the hate on RJF?

[RockThatBlue]

I see quite a few people want him cut. Am I missing something? I thought he had a pretty good year...

I agree that his contract might be too big but don't see any reason to cut him.

He was one of our best d linemen this year too.

[12isthenew18]

contract is large

[Mr.Debonair]

The money! He's overpaid

[throwing BBZ]

Harbaugh said he was nearly unblockable near seasons end.
Guess who Bought it?
 He has been ok at best. Paying him what he gets was very reasonable for a FA.
 $5.5M for 2015.  If another guy is available who they like better...

[Dustin]

He's a JAG who's getting paid like he's top 10 at his position.

[NBColtsFanatic]

He's paid too much. If Grigson is going to pay players so much, at least get quality and top players at their positions. Imagine if he had done that. :|

[ProblChld32]

Only thing i can really think of why people really would want him gone is because of the contract. but i like RJF and what he brings to the team personally. 

[21isSuperman]

Like Dustin said, I believe he is getting paid top 10 DT money, but his performance doesn't match it.  A lot of people want to cut him, but I'm more for re-structuring.  I think he has some ability, but his contract doesn't match the production

[1959Colts]

Mediocre player getting elite pay.

[backshoulderfade]

8th highest payed 3-4 DE/DT.

[rock8591]

Mediocre player getting elite pay.

 

Exactly. Career backup at LSU and SF...worth 1-2 million a year max. I remember when Justin Smith got injured for a few games in 2012; the 49ers defense took a HUGE SETBACK when RJF in the lineup.

 

Aldon Smith ended up not getting a sack in his final 6 games.

[Superman]

He's paid too much. If Grigson is going to pay players so much, at least get quality and top players at their positions. Imagine if he had done that. :|

 

$5.5m isn't going to get you a top player at any position, really. 

 

RJF is overpaid, but not by a whole lot. Maybe $1.5m, which is like 1% of the cap. It's not worth all the noise, IMO. If we have a better player and can save some money against the cap, fine. But this desire to release him because people think he's overpaid is really just backseat driving. 

[jseg18]

I'll give him the effort to try and be the best player he can be. In 2013 he played 15 pounds lighter than he should. This year he got back up o around 310 where he excelled. Unlike players like t trick, and landry

[NBColtsFanatic]

$5.5m isn't going to get you a top player at any position, really.

RJF is overpaid, but not by a whole lot. Maybe $1.5m, which is like 1% of the cap. It's not worth all the noise, IMO. If we have a better player and can save some money against the cap, fine. But this desire to release him because people think he's overpaid is really just backseat driving.

Well, I'm sure in the 2013 free agency, there were probably better options for 5.5 million at his position.

[jskinnz]

Well, I'm sure in the 2013 free agency, there were probably better options for 5.5 million at his position.

 

Dear God...

[Superman]

Well, I'm sure in the 2013 free agency, there were probably better options for 5.5 million at his position.

 

Name them.

[rock8591]

Name them.

 

Louis Vasquez.

[Superman]

Louis Vasquez.

 

You missed the "at his position" part of the other poster's comment.

 

And besides, Vasquez evidently was going to the Broncos all along. Just like Art Jones was always going to sign with the Colts, Branden Albert was always going to sign with the Dolphins... Free agency isn't like going grocery shopping. Probably 50% of the really good free agents are unavailable to all but two or three teams.

[crazycolt1]

[NBColtsFanatic]

Name them.

http://walterfootball.com/freeagents2013DT.php

Looks like many on here want Knighton. Could've gotten him for 2 years 4.5 million. A lot cheaper than RJF. Plus there are 17 players that were ranked better than RJF, I'm sure much of them could've been cheaper than RJF.

[Superman]

http://walterfootball.com/freeagents2013DT.php

Looks like many on here want Knighton. Could've gotten him for 2 years 4.5 million. A lot cheaper than RJF. Plus there are 17 players that were ranked better than RJF, I'm sure much of them could've been cheaper than RJF.

 

I'll give you half credit for Knighton, even though he's a completely different kind of player who was looking like he was on his way out of the league at the time. 

 

As for the rest of those 17 players, several didn't reach free agency. Some of them are awful, and haven't done anything since then. At least two of them are retired. Others have been too hurt to play.

 

Which brings us back to where we began. He's a decent player who is overpaid, and that's about the worst thing anyone can say about him. The rush to kick him off the team doesn't add up.

[Luck_Is_Skilled]

For the record, Its not that anyone hates RJF, Its just that he can be cut and the Colts could sing 2 or even 3 players with the money they will save that will give the same production.

 

Its the epitome of an addition by subtraction maneuver.

 

[The Peytonator]

Nobody 'hates' RJF, but his talent is right on par with someone like Ricardo Mathews, a guy who played for vet minimum last year.

[NBColtsFanatic]

I'll give you half credit for Knighton, even though he's a completely different kind of player who was looking like he was on his way out of the league at the time.

As for the rest of those 17 players, several didn't reach free agency. Some of them are awful, and haven't done anything since then. At least two of them are retired. Others have been too hurt to play.

Which brings us back to where we began. He's a decent player who is overpaid, and that's about the worst thing anyone can say about him. The rush to kick him off the team doesn't add up.

I agree with the players. I am fine with having Ricky Jean François staying with the team. I like him a lot, it's just he is a bit overpaid as you said.

[rock8591]

Nobody 'hates' RJF, but his talent is right on par with someone like Ricardo Mathews, a guy who played for vet minimum last year.

 

IMO Lawrence Guy outplayed RJF by far when he was in the lineup last year.

[lollygagger8]

IMO Lawrence Guy outplayed RJF by far when he was in the lineup last year.

 

I was a Lawrence Guy fan, and don't think we should've gotten rid of him. 

 

 

I don't think RJF is bad and I'd like to see him stay. I do agree he should restructure his contract though. Cherilus is worse (as far as overpaid) and his contract should definitely be looked at if he's staying. 

[rock8591]

I was a Lawrence Guy fan, and don't think we should've gotten rid of him. 

 

 

I don't think RJF is bad and I'd like to see him stay. I do agree he should restructure his contract though. Same with Cherilus. Their contracts are better than their play suggests. 

 

I was a Lawrence Guy fan, and don't think we should've gotten rid of him. 

 

 

I don't think RJF is bad and I'd like to see him stay. I do agree he should restructure his contract though. Same with Cherilus. Their contracts are better than their play suggests. 

 

Cherilus IMO = $500,000 better than Winston Justice at best.

[lollygagger8]

Cherilus IMO = $500,000 better than Winston Justice at best.

 

 

I almost forgot about ol' turnstyle.....is he even playing in the NFL anymore? 

[Jason_]

IMO Lawrence Guy outplayed RJF by far when he was in the lineup last year.

 

 

Nobody 'hates' RJF, but his talent is right on par with someone like Ricardo Mathews, a guy who played for vet minimum last year.

 

Sorry but neither of these are even remotely accurate.  RJF is a far superior player to Matthews and he's a better player at this point than Guy.  Guy is still young and could eventually develop into the better player, but that has not happened as of yet.

[C0LT5]

For the record, Its not that anyone hates RJF, Its just that he can be cut and the Colts could sing 2 or even 3 players with the money they will save that will give the same production.

 

Its the epitome of an addition by subtraction maneuver.

 

Aren't roster spots valuable too? Why use 2 or 3 guys to do what 1 can? 

[C0LT5]

Cutting a guy to save money if fine, as long as we have someone just as good or better to replace him. Cutting him without anyone to replace him is stupid in my opinion. Any free agent signing is going to be overpaid. What I like, and I think gets overlooked a lot, is that most of the time Grigson overpays so we can get out of the contract early if we need to.

[Jason_]

For the record, Its not that anyone hates RJF, Its just that he can be cut and the Colts could sing 2 or even 3 players with the money they will save that will give the same production.

 

Its the epitome of an addition by subtraction maneuver.

 

 

 

Ok I'll bite.  Which 2 or 3 players are you going to sign for a combined 2015 cap hit of ~$6 that will all out perform RJF?

[COLTS449]

The problem is this. RJF is a very good backup, but he's getting paid entirely too much. That's a big problem Grigs has had, giving guys like RJF, Walden, Toler, Landry, and Thomas too much money. Toler is a really good CB, but I don't know if another GM would have paid him that much. Same with Walden. We could have gotten all those guys for a lot less money without a doubt. Now I don't want RJF gone, but I'd love to see a restructure.

[Jason_]

The problem is this. RJF is a very good backup, but he's getting paid entirely too much. That's a big problem Grigs has had, giving guys like RJF, Walden, Toler, Landry, and Thomas too much money. Toler is a really good CB, but I don't know if another GM would have paid him that much. Same with Walden. We could have gotten all those guys for a lot less money without a doubt. Now I don't want RJF gone, but I'd love to see a restructure.

 

 

Without a doubt there is no way you could know that.  And when Walden was signed, there were 2 other teams highly interested in him.

[C0LT5]

The problem is this. RJF is a very good backup, but he's getting paid entirely too much. That's a big problem Grigs has had, giving guys like RJF, Walden, Toler, Landry, and Thomas too much money. Toler is a really good CB, but I don't know if another GM would have paid him that much. Same with Walden. We could have gotten all those guys for a lot less money without a doubt. Now I don't want RJF gone, but I'd love to see a restructure.

 

Other than Cherilus, Grigson has overpaid for the ability to cut guys from these contracts and not have a huge cap hit. They go hand in hand. I think it's brilliant.

 

OK, so with RJF its about not earning his money. With Toler it's about no other team would have paid him that. Toler earned his money this year. Toler was on his way to earning it his first year. It doesn't matter what you think other GM's would have paid, he earned his money.

 

A restructure for RJF I don't know about. I think he's decent but if you restructure that usually means extending him too. I'd rather let his contract run out and see what happens...but it's close. So either way would be fine I guess. The hole "let's cut him he costs too much" without a replacement drives me nuts. We aren't in cap hell after all.

[ColtsFanMikeC]

He's a JAG who's getting paid like he's top 10 at his position.

What does JAG mean?

 

For the record, Its not that anyone hates RJF, Its just that he can be cut and the Colts could sing 2 or even 3 players with the money they will save that will give the same production.

 

Its the epitome of an addition by subtraction maneuver.

 

What 2 or 3 players could we 'sing' that would make any impact at that price? 

 

I was a Lawrence Guy fan, and don't think we should've gotten rid of him. 

 

 

I don't think RJF is bad and I'd like to see him stay. I do agree he should restructure his contract though. Cherilus is worse (as far as overpaid) and his contract should definitely be looked at if he's staying. 

 

 

Cherilus IMO = $500,000 better than Winston Justice at best.

 

Cherilus is injured -- I personally think he should  consider retirement.  He was a very good player prior to re-aggravating his knee, in fact one of the best pass protecting RT's in the league.   Much better than Winston Justice and much closer to being worth his contract prior to injury.

[Dustin]

What does JAG mean?

What 2 or 3 players could we 'sing' that would make any impact at that price?

Cherilus is injured -- I personally think he should consider retirement. He was a very good player prior to re-aggravating his knee, in fact one of the best pass protecting RT's in the league. Much better than Winston Justice and much closer to being worth his contract prior to injury.

JAG - just a guy

[Luck_Is_Skilled]

 

What 2 or 3 players could we 'sing' that would make any impact at that price? 

1. Dont be jerk, it was a typo.

2. Its not my job to know who's out there. Its up to Grigs to find out.

[Jason_]

2. Its not my job to know who's out there. Its up to Grigs to find out.

 

He did.  That's why he signed RJF.  If you're going to suggest a player be cut to save money so we can sign other players, then you should have an idea of who the replacements would be.  Otherwise all you're suggesting is creating another roster hole with no suggestion as to how to fix it.

[Superman]

He did.  That's why he signed RJF.  If you're going to suggest a player be cut to save money so we can sign other players, then you should have an idea of who the replacements would be.  Otherwise all you're suggesting is creating another roster hole with no suggestion as to how to fix it.

 

Not only that, but stating matter-of-factly that there were better players available during that year's free agency, but not being able to name any, well it torpedoes the argument entirely.