Surprise! Pats play fast and loose with the rules!

[TAPLOOK]

Was this before or AFTER his 15yd penalty he had to take to get them to do their job?

Bad coaching there. He should have called a TO.

[ViriLudant]

That's the problem. The refs didn't announce it like they were supposed. And yes legal, the OP's point is that is not in the spirit of the rules.

Yes, they did . I heard it on tv each time.

[TAPLOOK]

Did any of you whiners have a problem with Peyton quick snapping to catch the 12th man? Didn't think so.

[Moose Of Woe]

I read the title as Footloose.  Just woke up and my eyes were kinda blurry.

 

Eh...nothing wrong with it. It's called getting outcoached. BAL couldn't stop NE to save their lives as the game wound down......had to settle for 3. Then threw a boneheaded pass which not only was off the mark, but even if it were a TD would have left the Pats 1:45 to storm back down the field and win the game. (Which they would have.)  So, it was a * throw for two reasons.

 

However you look at the rest of the game prior - BAL still had NE right where they needed them, dead to rights, control of the clock for a late TD, and blew it. BAL had their chances.

 

Also Kevin Bacon is an ineligible dancer.

[The Old Crow]

Bad coaching there. He should have called a TO.

He should have called a TO before Cundiff missed the FG on 2011. Belichick is a sly fox, he never misses a trick. I have no problems with it.

[Coltsman1788]

Next time Andrew Luck complains about being kneed in the chin, I don't want to hear his fans complain, then.

Except that Brady was at fault.  Brady got sacked...was frustrated and while getting up pushed off on the Raven defender who sacked him.  The Raven player retaliated by kicking towards Brady.  The ref was right there when it all happened and saw everything which was why he did not throw a flag on the Raven.  Brady then proceeded to scream in the ref's face like a spoiled little brat.  As usual, no flag was thrown for his tantrum because he is Tom friggin Brady.  

[ViriLudant]

Except that Brady was at fault. Brady got sacked...was frustrated and while getting up pushed off on the Raven defender who sacked him. The Raven player retaliated by kicking towards Brady. The ref was right there when it all happened and saw everything which was why he did not throw a flag on the Raven. Brady then proceeded to scream in the ref's face like a spoiled little brat. As usual, no flag was thrown for his tantrum because he is Tom friggin Brady.

So when you sack someone, and that person pushes you off of him, kicking him in the chin is allowed.

Wow.

[JerodMayo51]

So when you sack someone, and that person pushes you off of him, kicking him in the chin is allowed.

Wow.

 

Yea didnt you know that?

 

They also should have ejected one of the top QBs in the playoffs because of that too, didnt you hear? Then the Pats would have been on their 2nd string QB in the 1st quarter and lost the game, thus everything would be perfect in the world over here in Colts land.

 

lol

[-JJ-]

It was a great game, and we all know how it goes, you're not always to come out on top when playing great teams. I enjoyed the game, and it was another classic between the Pats and Ravens. Interesting plays, gambles, wrinkles, drama , it had it all, even down to the last Hail Mary. I have no problem with Joe going for it, I just might have went more conservative to take more time off because we could not stop Brady. But he thought he had it, the safety made a nice play , and it didn't work out. Because he took chances all game, was the main reason we were in it. The last gamble just didn't work, and we just lost. The Patriots played great, we've all been on all sides of games like these.

From what I saw he didn't have any short pass options as they were covered. I could be wrong but I don't think the deep pass was the first option?  Don't forget too how cold weather effects the ball coming out of the QBs hands (both Brady and Flacco's INTs).

 

I will say this- I've never seen so many important plays in a game on both sides. Usually a team wins on 1-4 key plays. This game was like over a dozen key plays with NE getting the last one.

[Coltsman1788]

So when you sack someone, and that person pushes you off of him, kicking him in the chin is allowed.

Wow.

It was the vigor in which he did it and the jawing that went along with it.  Brady got what he deserved in my opinion.  Apparently the ref thought so as well. 

[ViriLudant]

From ESPN: They had Chris Mortensen on who had talked to the NFL offices. They stated that the formation was legal, the reporting procedures were followed and there was nothing else to say about it.

[NewColtsFan]

The Patriots did nothing wrong. Whatsoever.

All they did was line Hooman and Vereen as blockers.

That's it.

Oh, and they were declared ineligible all THREE TIMES this happened. I heard it over the loudspeakers when the refs announced them.

Amusing that this is considered playing loose with the rules. Please.

 

They were NOT lined up as blockers.    They were lined up as eligible receivers.   The only thing they did was not go out for a pass.    I've seen the tape.

 

And I noted what they did was not illegal.    But it clearly was not within the spirit of the rules.

 

I'll be very surprised -- stunned, actually -- if this is not corrected this coming off season.

[ruksak]

Hats off to them for that.

Agreed. Fix the rule or use it to your advantage. Hard to complain about this one. 

 

If Harbaugh thought it would help by giving his team a 15 yard penalty in a key area of the field, he should think a big longer on the subject next time. 

[NewColtsFan]

I gotta admit that we are pretty far apart on this one.  Competitive deception, within the rules, is kind of the definition of schematic coaching.  I root for every team that plays the Pats - no exceptions - but this feels very much like football to me and really good coaching.

 

When the other side feels like what you're doing is illegal -- then something is wrong.

 

When one side feels like the refs don't know what they're doing on the play -- then something is wrong.

 

My post clearly says what the Pats did was legal.    But I don't see it within the spirit of the law.

 

As I've noted now in several posts,  I'll be very surprised if this is not addressed in the off-season.

[Colts_Fan12]

Next time Andrew Luck complains about being kneed in the chin, I don't want to hear his fans complain, then.

what a stupid thing to say luck has never acted like a whiney little * in his whole career Brady has * and moaned and thrown tantrums many times

[The Old Crow]

From what I saw he didn't have any short pass options as they were covered. I could be wrong but I don't think the deep pass was the first option? Don't forget too how cold weather effects the ball coming out of the QBs hands (both Brady and Flacco's INTs).

I will say this- I've never seen so many important plays in a game on both sides. Usually a team wins on 1-4 key plays. This game was like over a dozen key plays with NE getting the last one.

It was another classic , for sure. Those games almost kill me watching them. This was a tough loss , but after squeaking into the playoffs , and getting the Pittsburgh playoff monkey off our backs , it wasn't a bad season. This Ravens team gave it everything they had, but it was a bridge too far this season. Each year is different, so hopefully they can build off of this.

[oldunclemark]

They were NOT lined up as blockers.    They were lined up as eligible receivers.   The only thing they did was not go out for a pass.    I've seen the tape.

 

And I noted what they did was not illegal.    But it clearly was not within the spirit of the rules.

 

I'll be very surprised -- stunned, actually -- if this is not corrected this coming off season.

They'll correct it before next week....NCF

Old 'Dollar Bill' found a loophole in the rules...Its amazing..I never even thought of doing that.

But if the 6th 'receiver' does not go downfield..its legal...

Its the offensive eqivalent of the defense lining up 8 players at the line of scrimmage.

.dropping the linemen into coverage and blitzing the corners and safeties.

[TheBlueAndWhite]

what a stupid thing to say luck has never acted like a whiney little * in his whole career Brady has * and moaned and thrown tantrums many times

right on! Luck would just take the hit, jump up and say nice hit man!...lol

[-JJ-]

It was another classic , for sure. Those games almost kill me watching them. This was a tough loss , but after squeaking into the playoffs , and getting the Pittsburgh playoff monkey off our backs , it wasn't a bad season. This Ravens team gave it everything they had, but it was a bridge too far this season. Each year is different, so hopefully they can build off of this.

I actually hate the playoffs believe it or not when we're in it:)  At least baseball you get 7 whacks at it:)

 

Bridge too far- perfect description.

[Colts_Fan12]

Yea didnt you know that?

They also should have ejected one of the top QBs in the playoffs because of that too, didnt you hear? Then the Pats would have been on their 2nd string QB in the 1st quarter and lost the game, thus everything would be perfect in the world over here in Colts land.

lol

all you trolls thought it was ok for gronk to try and hurt someone but this was to Tom Brady so it's not fair?

[Colts_Fan12]

right on! Luck would just take the hit, jump up and say nice hit man!...lol

yeah luck is a man not some ugg model little girl

[B~Town]

I find it a interesting tatic my only problem with it is being ran in the hurry up and declaring right before the snap it makes it impossible for the D to react . Have to give it to bill or whoever came up with it tricky wonder what else is in there bag of tricks . I will say it will be outlawed before next week or all teams will be doing .

[GoDeep]

I find it a interesting tatic my only problem with it is being ran in the hurry up and declaring right before the snap it makes it impossible for the D to react . Have to give it to bill or whoever came up with it tricky wonder what else is in there bag of tricks . I will say it will be outlawed before next week or all teams will be doing .

Has to go through the competition committee. Won't change before off season if at all.

[SteelCityColt]

As with anything in the NFL, teams will find these wrinkles and loop holes and either a counter is worked out once it's been seen or the rules change. Same in a lot of sports. Now the ethics of it can be debated but I doubt there would be much reaction if it wasn't the Pats.

Let's face reality, there's sections of posters of both sides of the fence who would argue regardless of topic and it's ruining it for those who can act like adults and discuss these things without resorting to childish arguments.

It's football people, not life or death, it's meant to be enjoyable!

[oldunclemark]

Has to go through the competition committee. Won't change before off season if at all.

They can make it a point of emphasis next week. To give the defense notice and time to identify the ineligible receiver with

a receivers number

They said as much on TV Sunday

[The Old Crow]

I actually hate the playoffs believe it or not when we're in it:) At least baseball you get 7 whacks at it:)

Bridge too far- perfect description.

I think we all know how hard it is to win a SB. When I was younger the Colts won Super Bowl 5, then they left 13 years later, then it was 30 years, when now as a Ravens fan, we very unexpectedly won in 2000. 30 years ! Then after the 2011 , which was for me worse then this loss because we thought the window had closed on those old players , we unexpectedly won in 2012. Another 12 years. I'm sure Colt fans cherish the 2006 season. I guess my point is you are greatful for those moments, because they don't always occur very often. It is now 32 years since 1983, when the Orioles last won ! Along the way, most fans have nights like we had last night of close misses. I'm sure all Patriot and Colt fan understand that as well. Enjoy the moment, it's a good era of football.

[B~Town]

Has to go through the competition committee. Won't change before off season if at all.[/quote

They can still have the refs not allow the ball to be snapped until the D has had time to react to the ineligible .

[-JJ-]

I think we all know how hard it is to win a SB. When I was younger the Colts won Super Bowl 5, then they left 13 years later, then it was 30 years, when now as a Ravens fan, we very unexpectedly won in 2000. 30 years ! Then after the 2011 , which was for me worse then this loss because we thought the window had closed on those old players , we unexpectedly won in 2012. Another 12 years. I'm sure Colt fans cherish the 2006 season. I guess my point is you are greatful for those moments, because they don't always occur very often. It is now 32 years since 1983, when the Orioles last won ! Along the way, most fans have nights like we had last night of close misses. I'm sure all Patriot and Colt fan understand that as well. Enjoy the moment, it's a good era of football.

Well that's certainly and optimistic way of looking at it and a good one too.

[ViriLudant]

all you trolls thought it was ok for gronk to try and hurt someone but this was to Tom Brady so it's not fair?

Gronk tried to hurt him?

When did that take place? Or are you referring to when Sergio held onto Gronk's jersey as they went out of bounds and Gronk threw him off ?

Yeah, REAL intent to injure there.

[ViriLudant]

As with anything in the NFL, teams will find these wrinkles and loop holes and either a counter is worked out once it's been seen or the rules change. Same in a lot of sports. Now the ethics of it can be debated but I doubt there would be much reaction if it wasn't the Pats.

Let's face reality, there's sections of posters of both sides of the fence who would argue regardless of topic and it's ruining it for those who can act like adults and discuss these things without resorting to childish arguments.

It's football people, not life or death, it's meant to be enjoyable!

Great post, SCC.

[Iancolts]

I have problems with this too. I know it's within the rule but I watched the replays on ESPN. I saw those so called I elegihle players all ran routes. The zebras screwed up again royally. You need to give defense time to adjust to those type of trickery. Within rule book or not. You have to give defense time to adjust because when you go to the red tell them they are ineligible etc... It's similiar to them subbing players in and out. Why does offrnse have time to do that but defense doesn't?

[JerodMayo51]

From ESPN: They had Chris Mortensen on who had talked to the NFL offices. They stated that the formation was legal, the reporting procedures were followed and there was nothing else to say about it.

 

and thats that

 

[ColtsBlueFL]

They were NOT lined up as blockers.    They were lined up as eligible receivers.   The only thing they did was not go out for a pass.    I've seen the tape.

 

And I noted what they did was not illegal.    But it clearly was not within the spirit of the rules.

 

I'll be very surprised -- stunned, actually -- if this is not corrected this coming off season.

 

 

Yup, just heard it was announced, but now I see what Harbaugh is complaining about, and agree a little, but let the competition committee handle it next year.  When you have an O send in subs, the other team is prepared based upon down and distance and other team tendencies to send in a D sub team to counter.  When you send in extra receivers, and don't declare who is ineligible until it is too late to send in a proper D group (and if you do, you'll may get caught with 12 men on the field trap, depending upon ref interpretation of the rule) to counter the play, or get receivers properly covered.  Yup, totally legal right now, but is indeed against the Spirit and Intent of the rules.  Specifically this one-

 

Rule 5 Article 10

 

 

So Harbaugh took a chance and got an unsportsmanlike to get attention to this "Gray area".  He must have felt his team could overcome it.  Bold on both sides IMHO.

[ColtsBlueFL]

They can make it a point of emphasis next week. To give the defense notice and time to identify the ineligible receiver with

a receivers number

They said as much on TV Sunday

They won't.  It's a done deal. Off season is different story.

[JerodMayo51]

right on! Luck would just take the hit, jump up and say nice hit man!...lol

 

Not in a playoff game against a heated rival he won't

[Iancolts]

Patriots win the game either way so I'm not taking the win away from them. But the way they win leaves a bad taste in your mouth. It was done within the rule but cmon you patriots fan can't tell me that wasn't unfair. Belichick strikes again wins the game but not in a good sportsmanship fashion. And Tom Brady that dude is a big cry baby throwing tantrums at the REF!!! What was that I can't believe he got away with it.

[JerodMayo51]

all you trolls thought it was ok for gronk to try and hurt someone but this was to Tom Brady so it's not fair?

 

Gronk didn't try to hurt anyone, he shoved a grown man to the ground that he was engaged with..  There was no intent to hurt anyone, show me evidence that he was malicious and trying to hurt him.

[jvan1973]

Not in a playoff game against a heated rival he won't

That's all he has ever done.

[Colts_Fan12]

Gronk didn't try to hurt anyone, he shoved a grown man to the ground that he was engaged with.. There was no intent to hurt anyone, show me evidence that he was malicious and trying to hurt him.

to the ground is one thing not on a * camera stand like a piece of crap

[dw49]

I'll just repeat: the Patriots did this THREE TIMES.

Each and every time, the player was declared ineligible.

So, nothing wrong occurred. Just whining from Harbaugh.

 

 

Harbaugh was saying that the Pats snapped the ball immediately after it was announced who was ineligible. Other words , they didn't have time to identify where "said player" was lined up. No one has said this is illegal , but it's understandable that harbaugh was lobbing for a few seconds to see where the ineligible receiver was lined up. Comprende ?