Surprise! Pats play fast and loose with the rules!

[NewColtsFan]

....  and they got away with it....

 

Here's what happened....   in the 3rd quarter,  on one of their TD drives,  the Pats pulled one of their five o-lineman and replaced him with a 6th eligible receiver.    Well, as we all know,  you can only have five eligible receivers on any one play, so on each play,  a different receiver would declare himself to be INELIGIBLE and the refs let the Pats get away with it.

 

That was the series where Harbaugh got an unsportsmanlike conduct penalty for being out on the field arguing with officials.    He was complaining to the refs about this move.   He said the refs were totally confused about what was going on.

 

After the game, Harbaugh said not only has that never happened to him, he's never heard of it happening to any other team in any other game.    He believes it will be made illegal in the off-season.

 

But he's clearly not happy.....    here's the story from NFL.com

 

 

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000456365/article/john-harbaugh-pats-substitutions-deceptive-illegal

 

The Pats shrug their shoulders and say...   too bad,  it's legal.    And it technically probably is.

 

But is it in the spirit of the rule -- probably not.    So, look for this to get fixed in the off-season.

 

But it's another chapter of New England playing fast and loose with the rules....

 

And here come the Pats posters here to defend their team in 3....  2....  1....

[The Peytonator]

Pats are bush league. 

 

Also Brady should have been ejected after his little tantrum.

[IcEWoLF]

....  and they got away with it....

 

Here's what happened....   in the 3rd quarter,  on one of their TD drives,  the Pats pulled one of their five o-lineman and replaced him with a 6th eligible receiver.    Well, as we all know,  you can only have five eligible receivers on any one play, so on each play,  a different receiver would declare himself to be INELIGIBLE and the refs let the Pats get away with it.

 

That was the series where Harbaugh got an unsportsmanlike conduct penalty for being out on the field arguing with officials.    He was complaining to the refs about this move.   He said the refs were totally confused about what was going on.

 

After the game, Harbaugh said not only has that never happened to him, he's never heard of it happening to any other team in any other game.    He believes it will be made illegal in the off-season.

 

But he's clearly not happy.....    here's the story from NFL.com

 

 

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000456365/article/john-harbaugh-pats-substitutions-deceptive-illegal

 

The Pats shrug their shoulders and say...   too bad,  it's legal.    And it technically probably is.

 

But is it in the spirit of the rule -- probably not.    So, look for this to get fixed in the off-season.

 

But it's another chapter of New England playing fast and loose with the rules....

 

And here come the Pats posters here to defend their team in 3....  2....  1....

 

The above poster:

 

 

Sounds more like you taking a jab at the pats, spygate getting too old for you?

[Colts_Fan12]

Pats are bush league.

Also Brady should have been ejected after his little tantrum.

so true if he was a D player he would be gone

[NewColtsFan]

The above poster:

 

 

Sounds more like you taking a jab at the pats, spygate getting too old for you?

 

 

In case you ever wonder why so few here take you seriously,  feel free to look back at almost any post you make.

 

This one,  or almost any other post.     They're not worthy of being taken seriously....

 

But thanks anyway.....    

[-JJ-]

 

 

But it's another chapter of New England playing fast and loose with the rules....

 

And here come the Pats posters here to defend their team in 3....  2....  1....

 

 

What's there to defend? ..

 

I suppose they could play slow and tight with the rules..

[crazycolt1]

The above poster:

 

 

Sounds more like you taking a jab at the pats, spygate getting too old for you?

No one is taking a jab at your Pats. It is a story all over the sports pages. Quit trying to instigate.

[IcEWoLF]

In case you ever wonder why so few here take you seriously, feel free to look back at almost any post you make.

This one, or almost any other post. They're not worthy of being taken seriously....

But thanks anyway.....

Thanks, it was worth a reply by you. After all who can take you seriously? Look at the last statement that you made in your post. Here is a tissue. I know it's eating you inside seeing the pats making another appearance in the afc championship game.

Winners win, losers find excuses. That's how John has conducted himself during that interview. Not much different than his brother. Lol.

Up by 14 twice and still found ways to lose.

Where were you last week when the refs gave the game to Dallas? I didn't see you make a thread about that. Oh wait...

[NewColtsFan]

Thanks, it was worth a reply by you. After all who can take you seriously? Look at the last statement that you made in your post. Here is a tissue. I know it's eating you inside seeing the pats making another appearance in the afc championship game.

Winners win, losers find excuses. That's how John has conducted himself during that interview. Not much different than his brother. Lol.

Up by 14 twice and still found ways to lose.

Where were you last week when the refs gave the game to Dallas? I didn't see you make a thread about that. Oh wait...

 

 

The Pats making another appearance in the AFC championship Is not eating me in the least.   I don't care.   For the most part,  I have respect for them because sustained excellence is the hardest things in all sports.    And the Pats have been great for more than a decade,  so props to them.

 

But I don't like when individuals or teams cut corners or play fast and loose with the rules.   As I noted in my first post,  what they did was LEGAL,   but it's probably not in the spirit of the rules and will probably be outlawed or corrected for next year.

 

Oh, and John Harbaugh is nothing like his brother Jim and everyone who follows football knows it.    Apparently except you.

 

As for last week,  the refs blew it.  That happens from time to time.

 

I chose to stay out of the thread filled with conspiracy theories and other such nonsense.    It was just a series of bad calls badly handled by the refs.    Oh well....

 

A waste of my time.

[GoDeep]

Hats off to them for that.

[amfootball]

The Pats making another appearance in the AFC championship Is not eating me in the least.   I don't care.   For the most part,  I have respect for them because sustained excellence is the hardest things in all sports.    And the Pats have been great for more than a decade,  so props to them.

 

But I don't like when individuals or teams cut corners or play fast and loose with the rules.   As I noted in my first post,  what they did was LEGAL,   but it's probably not in the spirit of the rules and will probably be outlawed or corrected for next year.

 

Oh, and John Harbaugh is nothing like his brother Jim and everyone who follows football knows it.    Apparently except you.

 

As for last week,  the refs blew it.  That happens from time to time.

 

I chose to stay out of the thread filled with conspiracy theories and other such nonsense.    It was just a series of bad calls badly handled by the refs.    Oh well....

 

A waste of my time.

It was legal so not sure why the thread or the angst? If the competition committee wants to take a look at one of their rules and change it so be it but if anything this is a credit to the Pats for knowing the rule book to this level of detail and using it to their advantage.

[amfootball]

Turns out Alabama ran a similar play and this is probably where Bill got the idea from, http://www.sbnation.com/nfl/2015/1/10/7526841/the-patriots-trick-play-that-got-john-harbaugh-mad-ravens

 

From the article:

Harbaugh is mad because the refs didn't give him time to diagnose the problem, and to be honest, he's out of luck. He's right that it is the referee's responsibility to announce if an ineligible player reports as eligible or if an eligible player reports as ineligible. That happened. Vereen told the ref he was ineligible.

However, it's not the referee's responsibility to allow the defense enough time after that announcement to figure out which five players are eligible. The Ravens had the information the rulebook allowed them. Their inability to identify who was available to catch a pass and who wasn't is their own problem.

[MJD42]

I have read a few stories on this and Harbaugh's main gripe is with the refs it seems not the Pats. The Pats declared their ineligible receivers but Harbaugh wanted the refs to give his defense more time to identify the eligible receivers. That is just football. You have to be prepared for anything. Obviously he wasn't.

[The Old Crow]

I have read a few stories on this and Harbaugh's main gripe is with the refs it seems not the Pats. The Pats declared their ineligible receivers but Harbaugh wanted the refs to give his defense more time to identify the eligible receivers. That is just football. You have to be prepared for anything. Obviously he wasn't.

Pretty tricky. I think the NFL needs to look at it like Harbs said , but it was an interesting wrinkle.

[ViriLudant]

....  and they got away with it....

 

Here's what happened....   in the 3rd quarter,  on one of their TD drives,  the Pats pulled one of their five o-lineman and replaced him with a 6th eligible receiver.    Well, as we all know,  you can only have five eligible receivers on any one play, so on each play,  a different receiver would declare himself to be INELIGIBLE and the refs let the Pats get away with it.

 

That was the series where Harbaugh got an unsportsmanlike conduct penalty for being out on the field arguing with officials.    He was complaining to the refs about this move.   He said the refs were totally confused about what was going on.

 

After the game, Harbaugh said not only has that never happened to him, he's never heard of it happening to any other team in any other game.    He believes it will be made illegal in the off-season.

 

But he's clearly not happy.....    here's the story from NFL.com

 

 

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000456365/article/john-harbaugh-pats-substitutions-deceptive-illegal

 

The Pats shrug their shoulders and say...   too bad,  it's legal.    And it technically probably is.

 

But is it in the spirit of the rule -- probably not.    So, look for this to get fixed in the off-season.

 

But it's another chapter of New England playing fast and loose with the rules....

 

And here come the Pats posters here to defend their team in 3....  2....  1....

The Patriots did nothing wrong. Whatsoever.

All they did was line Hooman and Vereen as blockers.

That's it.

Oh, and they were declared ineligible all THREE TIMES this happened. I heard it over the loudspeakers when the refs announced them.

Amusing that this is considered playing loose with the rules. Please.

[ViriLudant]

Pats are bush league. 

 

Also Brady should have been ejected after his little tantrum.

Next time Andrew Luck complains about being kneed in the chin, I don't want to hear his fans complain, then.

[Yehoodi]

....  and they got away with it....

 

Here's what happened....   in the 3rd quarter,  on one of their TD drives,  the Pats pulled one of their five o-lineman and replaced him with a 6th eligible receiver.    Well, as we all know,  you can only have five eligible receivers on any one play, so on each play,  a different receiver would declare himself to be INELIGIBLE and the refs let the Pats get away with it.

 

That was the series where Harbaugh got an unsportsmanlike conduct penalty for being out on the field arguing with officials.    He was complaining to the refs about this move.   He said the refs were totally confused about what was going on.

 

After the game, Harbaugh said not only has that never happened to him, he's never heard of it happening to any other team in any other game.    He believes it will be made illegal in the off-season.

 

But he's clearly not happy.....    here's the story from NFL.com

 

 

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000456365/article/john-harbaugh-pats-substitutions-deceptive-illegal

 

The Pats shrug their shoulders and say...   too bad,  it's legal.    And it technically probably is.

 

But is it in the spirit of the rule -- probably not.    So, look for this to get fixed in the off-season.

 

But it's another chapter of New England playing fast and loose with the rules....

 

And here come the Pats posters here to defend their team in 3....  2....  1....

 

I am not a fan of gamesmanship and news things coming out a key times in a season, but we have been on the butt end of timely events that could just as easily be argued to have cost us a playoff appearance, a playoff game, and looses in season including the first one this year.   No perhaps is not the cleanest of things from a spirit things, but at times it happens in the NFL and we have been on the wrong side of it many times believe me.   Its not like we are the only ones.   

 

And also I want to watch the game again to see how far out of line the acts were.  I am not admitting that what we did was wrong or inappropriate until I take a look the game again, just that I agree with you that timely events are not the best and that it does happen throughout the league.

[The Old Crow]

We had our chances, I'm not going to complain about the wrinkle . We have to obviously work on the back end of our defense. It's hard to lose two 14 point leads, but this secondary managed to do it. Draft pick safeties Elam and Brooks look like busts, and they'd better sign and draft many CB's. I told you guys it wouldn't be 41-7, but I was even surprised we did so well. It was an honest effort for the team we had. Joe went right after Revis and Browner and did well. That surprised me. Tom exploiting our secondary didn't surprise me, but I give him full credit for doing it .

[ViriLudant]

I'll just repeat: the Patriots did this THREE TIMES.

Each and every time, the player was declared ineligible.

So, nothing wrong occurred. Just whining from Harbaugh.

[TAPLOOK]

Good smart football IMO. It was a very entertaining game.

[Yehoodi]

We had our chances, I'm not going to complain about the wrinkle . We have to obviously work on the back end of our defense. It's hard to lose two 14 point leads, but this secondary managed to do it. Draft pick safeties Elam and Brooks look like busts, and they'd better sign and draft many CB's. I told you guys it wouldn't be 41-7, but I was even surprised we did so well. It was an honest effort for the team we had. Joe went right after Revis and Browner and did well. That surprised me. Tom exploiting our secondary didn't surprise me, but I give him full credit for doing it .

 

I am sorry that your team did not win, it was a tough game and had my stomach churning most of the game.  The Ravens played a great game and Flacco really played a great game, yah he had two picks but those things are going to happen.  I know some say the second pick was not a good one, but if you are in a flow, are in four down territory and its 2nd and 5, nothing wrong with taking a chance to get TD, yah there was time on the clock (to leave to the pats) but sometimes if you see something that might work you go for it regardless of the time.

 

Too bad the Ravens 2ndary was not that strong and luckily we were about to benefit from it, otherwise it would of been a long night based on how Baltimore's offense was playing and our defense.   We were fortunate to squeak this game out. 

 

Yah Joe did go after our CBs and was not afraid to do so and played very well against them.  Again great game by Baltimore's offense.  And thanks for the kinds words regarding our team.  

[TAPLOOK]

I'll just repeat: the Patriots did this THREE TIMES.

Each and every time, the player was declared ineligible.

So, nothing wrong occurred. Just whining from Harbaugh.

BB at his best. JH was out coached. Burning a TO would have been the correct move.

[TAPLOOK]

We had our chances, I'm not going to complain about the wrinkle . We have to obviously work on the back end of our defense. It's hard to lose two 14 point leads, but this secondary managed to do it. Draft pick safeties Elam and Brooks look like busts, and they'd better sign and draft many CB's. I told you guys it wouldn't be 41-7, but I was even surprised we did so well. It was an honest effort for the team we had. Joe went right after Revis and Browner and did well. That surprised me. Tom exploiting our secondary didn't surprise me, but I give him full credit for doing it .

The Ravens can hold their heads high and their fans should be proud.

[ztboiler]

The Pats shrug their shoulders and say...   too bad,  it's legal.    And it technically probably is.

 

 

But is it in the spirit of the rule -- probably not.    So, look for this to get fixed in the off-season.

 

But it's another chapter of New England playing fast and loose with the rules....

 

And here come the Pats posters here to defend their team in 3....  2....  1....

 

I gotta admit that we are pretty far apart on this one.  Competitive deception, within the rules, is kind of the definition of schematic coaching.  I root for every team that plays the Pats - no exceptions - but this feels very much like football to me and really good coaching.

[DougDew]

It was legal so not sure why the thread or the angst? If the competition committee wants to take a look at one of their rules and change it so be it but if anything this is a credit to the Pats for knowing the rule book to this level of detail and using it to their advantage.

Its the same principal as being a crooked lawyer. Crooked lawyers find ways to legally screw people over. The Pats have a history of being football's version of a crooked lawyer. Pats win games, and crooked lawyers are rich. Not much difference.

And fans who defend them are the equivalent of being an apprentice to a crooked lawyer.

Its bush league, period.

[Indianapolis-Colts-Fan]

We had our chances, I'm not going to complain about the wrinkle . We have to obviously work on the back end of our defense. It's hard to lose two 14 point leads, but this secondary managed to do it. Draft pick safeties Elam and Brooks look like busts, and they'd better sign and draft many CB's. I told you guys it wouldn't be 41-7, but I was even surprised we did so well. It was an honest effort for the team we had. Joe went right after Revis and Browner and did well. That surprised me. Tom exploiting our secondary didn't surprise me, but I give him full credit for doing it .

Wouldn't the blame fall more on the offense for not keeping the lead? Can't beat the patriots with FGs. Can't beat the Broncos that way either (cmon colts).

They needed to keep scoring and they just didn't.

[Gavin]

One hell of a game, Hats off to the Patriots

[ColtsBlueFL]

I have read a few stories on this and Harbaugh's main gripe is with the refs it seems not the Pats. The Pats declared their ineligible receivers but Harbaugh wanted the refs to give his defense more time to identify the eligible receivers. That is just football. You have to be prepared for anything. Obviously he wasn't.

 

Typically, the Refs sometimes make such calls over the P.A. system.  Most often when a player is eligible.  The competition committee might make it a requirement to do so on all players declaring eligible or ineligible by number over the P.A. system before allowing the snap of the ball.  They might even be given the  mandate to do so the rest of this post season until it is officially addressed in the rulebook.

[ViriLudant]

Its the same principal as being a crooked lawyer. Crooked lawyers find ways to legally screw people over. The Pats have a history of being football's version of a crooked lawyer. Pats win games, and crooked lawyers are rich. Not much difference.

And fans who defend them are the equivalent of being an apprentice to a crooked lawyer.

Its bush league, period.

The Patriots gained 35 yards on those plays.

None of them were scoring plays .

Not only that, what they did was completely legal.

If Harbaugh and the defense was confused, why not call a timeout?

Or is that illegal too ?

[Pats fan NFL1]

Pats are bush league. 

 

Also Brady should have been ejected after his little tantrum.

 

Actually, the Ravens defensive lineman who stood over Brady while Brady was on the ground and kneed Brady should have been ejected.

 

lol @ ejecting an emotional player after being cheap shotted.

 

As Pats fans we're use to the haters and their hypocrisy and wanting to hold the Pats to the highest standards with regards to etiquette and behavior and set the bar lower for their teams.

[ViriLudant]

Typically, the Refs sometimes make such calls over the P.A. system. Most often when a player is ineligible. The competition committee might make it a requirement to do so on all players declaring eligible or ineligible by number over the P.A. system before allowing the snap of the ball. They might even be given the mandate to do so the rest of this post season until it is officially addressed in the rulebook.

Except that this was done.

In fact, the refs went so far as to say over the PA system: "#47 is ineligible, do not cover #47."

[ColtsBlueFL]

Except that this was done.

In fact, the refs went so far as to say over the PA system: "#47 is ineligible, do not cover #47."

 

Then what is Harbaughs beef?  I heard player declared at the last second before the snap and thus could not have announced it on the P.A. before the play began. I did not hear it on TV, as is often heard.  If it was announced, Harbaugh had time to call a timeout if he didn't have the right personnel on the field.  Wonder why he wasn't able to do that either? Coaches often burn a timeout to save being in a bad matchup.

[Narcosys]

Turns out Alabama ran a similar play and this is probably where Bill got the idea from, http://www.sbnation.com/nfl/2015/1/10/7526841/the-patriots-trick-play-that-got-john-harbaugh-mad-ravens

From the article:

Harbaugh is mad because the refs didn't give him time to diagnose the problem, and to be honest, he's out of luck. He's right that it is the referee's responsibility to announce if an ineligible player reports as eligible or if an eligible player reports as ineligible. That happened. Vereen told the ref he was ineligible.

However, it's not the referee's responsibility to allow the defense enough time after that announcement to figure out which five players are eligible. The Ravens had the information the rulebook allowed them. Their inability to identify who was available to catch a pass and who wasn't is their own problem.

That's the problem. The refs didn't announce it like they were supposed. And yes legal, the OP's point is that is not in the spirit of the rules.

[Narcosys]

Except that this was done.

In fact, the refs went so far as to say over the PA system: "#47 is ineligible, do not cover #47."

Was this before or AFTER his 15yd penalty he had to take to get them to do their job?

[The Old Crow]

I am sorry that your team did not win, it was a tough game and had my stomach churning most of the game. The Ravens played a great game and Flacco really played a great game, yah he had two picks but those things are going to happen. I know some say the second pick was not a good one, but if you are in a flow, are in four down territory and its 2nd and 5, nothing wrong with taking a chance to get TD, yah there was time on the clock (to leave to the pats) but sometimes if you see something that might work you go for it regardless of the time.

Too bad the Ravens 2ndary was not that strong and luckily we were about to benefit from it, otherwise it would of been a long night based on how Baltimore's offense was playing and our defense. We were fortunate to squeak this game out.

Yah Joe did go after our CBs and was not afraid to do so and played very well against them. Again great game by Baltimore's offense. And thanks for the kinds words regarding our team.

It was a great game, and we all know how it goes, you're not always to come out on top when playing great teams. I enjoyed the game, and it was another classic between the Pats and Ravens. Interesting plays, gambles, wrinkles, drama , it had it all, even down to the last Hail Mary. I have no problem with Joe going for it, I just might have went more conservative to take more time off because we could not stop Brady. But he thought he had it, the safety made a nice play , and it didn't work out. Because he took chances all game, was the main reason we were in it. The last gamble just didn't work, and we just lost. The Patriots played great, we've all been on all sides of games like these.

[ColtsBlueFL]

Was this before or AFTER his 15yd penalty he had to take to get them to do their job?

 

Agreed.  John is a smart coach.  He would just burn a T.O. if he sees his team in a compromised position, not allow a big play then tack on another 15 yards to complain about it.  The whole story isn't fully in the light here.  I fully expect the competition committee to address this in the off season, and would not be surprised if Dean Blandino sends the message to the Ref crews to announce player number and whether eligible or not over the stadium P.A. so not trickery about who can or cannot catch a pass the rest of the post season.  Got to hand it to BB though, right on the ragged eadge of the rules.  And got away with it too.

[Narcosys]

Agreed. John is a smart coach. He would just burn a T.O. if he sees his team in a compromised position, not allow a big play then tack on another 15 yards to complain about it. The whole story isn't fully in the light here. I fully expect the competition committee to address this in the off season, and would not be surprised if Dean Blandino sends the message to the Ref crews to announce player number and whether eligible or not over the stadium P.A. so not trickery about who can or cannot catch a pass the rest of the post season. Got to hand it to BB though, right on the ragged eadge of the rules. And got away with it too.

He's historically been like that and a part of me can't be mad. That takes some serious smarts.

[The Old Crow]

The Ravens can hold their heads high and their fans should be proud.

It ended up being a positive season considering all the off season problems, and numerous injuries. Time to assess the weaknesses on this team and try to get better next year. Naturally, it's very disappointing , but we all know only one fan base will be truly happy at the end of the season. It won't be us, but it was a nice season. Good luck to the Pats.

[Fx Stryker]

I read the Patriots were not telling the refs what player was ineligible until right before they snapped the ball.

[ViriLudant]

Then what is Harbaughs beef? I heard player declared at the last second before the snap and thus could not have announced it on the P.A. before the play began. I did not hear it on TV, as is often heard. If it was announced, Harbaugh had time to call a timeout if he didn't have the right personnel on the field. Wonder why he wasn't able to do that either? Coaches often burn a timeout to save being in a bad matchup.

It only happened three times.

And each time, the refs declared the player's ineligibility over the PA.

Everything was properly done.

Harbaugh just couldn't adjust.