Jonotthan Harrison (Mega Merge)

[SOMDColtsfan]

Thank the "football Gods" that Shipley was available and bought some time to get things worked out. 6 weeks ago the Colts were entering the season with a starting center that had just signed to the team. Grigson had his "ace in the hole" and played it well. I eat crow on this one for now   

[NewColtsFan]

So, to sum up....     Almost no one here actually listened to the audio.

 

So, to sum up....     Holmes is not done for the season.

 

So, to sum up....     It's still not clear how long Harrison will remain as the starter.    Maybe the rest of the year, and maybe not.

 

So, to sum up....     Holmes' career with the Colts is not over and it's still too soon to put the bust label on him.

 

So, to sum up....     The OP makes a mistake.   Everyone here either doesn't read the link or listen to the link,  they just assume the OP is correct, and everyone jumps to the wrong conclusions and an entire thread is simply wasted.

 

Pretty much par for the course around here.           

[Narcosys]

Guess I'm the only one who hasn't been impressed with Harrison as much as Shipley.

[azcolt]

If you play the podcast backwards at half speed, Grigson clearly says TR will be cut next year and we will draft a running back who can average more than 3.2 ypc. There is no mention of the center position, probably because who gives a rip about the frickin, boring center position? Sorry you guys obviously can't hear, CAN YOU!!!??

[ColtsFanMikeC]

He said "that's his body of work for 2014." I think the point was that Harrison is going to be the guy, and he said Holmes is working at guard. He didn't say he's done, at either position.

 

 

From "center of the future" to "doing some work at guard"--almost sounds like a bust.

 

 

I wasn't aware that 4th round picks "bust"

 

As of right now though, he might be a serviceable backup in the future.

 

Holmes isn't a bust, even if Harrison does beat him out.  Holmes has the ability to play both guard spots and center and that is extremely valuable even if he is 3rd string at all 3 spots, you never know when Mewhort and Thornton are both out, we're one more injury away from Holmes being plugged into 3 different positions and I can almost guarantee he'll perform better than Satele or McGlynn did last year if he's called upon.  Good to have a guy like him around.

[bestQBever]

I honestly don't care who starts as long as we keep protecting Luck well. This is the best pass protection Luck has ever seen with the colts and changing up the O line these past few weeks didn't seem to affect that.

[Gavin]

As long as whoever we put out there can run block then I don't care who plays....Plus if we can run block consistently that will take some pressure off Luck and that is a good thing, I personally like the idea of Holmes at Guard better anyway if he is given the chance, He is mobile and if he sticks to proper technique could make a hell of a pulling guard and lead blocker at the second level.

I like Harrisons tenacity, He has gotten 4-5 knockdowns and pancakes over the last 2 games starting, He has to work on not coming off his Combo Block to early and keep his body facing up field and using his free hand to help contain a D Linemen on one of the Guards on either side of him or else that gives a Linebacker or D Linemen free reign to run right through the middle right in Lucks face

[ProblChld32]

Very unfortunate i liked Holmes. But Harrison is a monster of a man, besides the snapping issues he shows great promise. AQ has also played well also. will be interesting to see what gets done as far as keeping AQ come season end. 

[lollygagger8]

Kid is raw. I like him. He just has to clean up that snap.

 

http://imgur.com/b2HOoXI

 

I wonder if Harrison said "GET OVER HERE" in the Scorpion voice....

 

[Valpo2004]

I wasn't aware that 4th round picks "bust"

 

As of right now though, he might be a serviceable backup in the future.

 

I think 4th rounders are usually expected to be at least solid backups. 

[ztboiler]

This is the reality of a results oriented business playing out.  Holmes was thought to be the future of the position - Grigson structured his off-season plans accordingly - but circumstances have prevented Holmes from proving himself.  He essentially lost his place in line while one that they like just as well stepped into the opportunity.  None of this means that they like Harrison better, but they must like him just as well if not better, and he is available.  

 

The story on Holmes if far from over, but he has to get back in line and wait his turn since he has proven nothing on the field so far.  Pretty standard stuff for a 4th round pick, and there is nothing wrong with waiting in the wings in year 2 (or even yr. 3) as a 4th round pick.  Good teams want to have a roster strong enough that you have a 4th round pick maturing and ready to play when needed. 

 

Pagano/Grigs might also be concerned with the way Holmes wasn't ready after injury by the first or second game.  They may love the player, but have concerns about the way he recovers.  Unlike fans, they don't hold the misfortune of getting rolled up by a 300#'er as anything but bad luck.  However, they might hold his recovery behavior and or ability to be effective at 90% recovery against him....or something like that.

[Jay Kirk]

^{This depth is a great dilemma to have ,one we never had to deal with before. Im estatic at what our OL  has done so far and we improve weekly. Is there rough edges yes , but they will work out .}  

[dudeski]

I wonder if Harrison said "GET OVER HERE" in the Scorpion voice....

he didn't

[BrentMc11]

^{This depth is a great dilemma to have ,one we never had to deal with before. Im estatic at what our OL  has done so far and we improve weekly. Is there rough edges yes , but they will work out .}  

I totally agree here.  Mewhort is back, Thornton I believe is practicing.  Louis and Reitz got good snaps last week.

 

I still like Shipley, but I understand Grigson looking to the future.  AQ was not the long term answer.  Harrison could be.  Holmes is very smart and is quick on his feet.  I would LOVE to see him at guard at some point.

[Jay Kirk]

I totally agree here.  Mewhort is back, Thornton I believe is practicing.  Louis and Reitz got good snaps last week.

 

I still like Shipley, but I understand Grigson looking to the future.  AQ was not the long term answer.  Harrison could be.  Holmes is very smart and is quick on his feet.  I would LOVE to see him at guard at some point.

I would to Brother our line is not only getting younger ,but most definitely more talented. We could be building something solid for years to come , with a little veteran leadership sprinkled in. Our overall depth is great IMO.

[BrentMc11]

I would to Brother our line is not only getting younger ,but most definitely more talented. We could be building something solid for years to come , with a little veteran leadership sprinkled in. Our overall depth is great IMO.

Nixon gets back....then we have all bases covered.  He is projected as backup to Cherilus at RT.  I know we have heard Mewhort maybe sliding over and even Reitz.  Reitz needs to stay comfortable on the left IMO.

[Dark Superman]

Okay, so is Holmes still injured or has he just been a healthy scratch?

Last week we played without both Mewhort and Thornton and he still failed to be listed as active on game day.

I still am lost..

[ztboiler]

Okay, so is Holmes still injured or has he just been a healthy scratch?

Last week we played without both Mewhort and Thornton and he still failed to be listed as active on game day.

I still am lost..

Healthy scratch.  Opinions vary as to why...but mine is that he simply lost his place in line and has to wait his turn again.

[Dustin]

Okay, so is Holmes still injured or has he just been a healthy scratch?

Last week we played without both Mewhort and Thornton and he still failed to be listed as active on game day.

I still am lost..

 

A healthy scratch because he's not very good. 

[Smonroe]

Healthy scratch.  Opinions vary as to why...but mine is that he simply lost his place in line and has to wait his turn again.

 

I'm not 100% sure about that.  Like SL12 said, it doesn't make sense to have him inactive when both of our starting G's are out.  You'd think you'd need him as a 'just in case' option.  And Grigs said he's been working out at G, so it's even more confusing when that's a thin position.

 

I'm guessing (purely a guess with no inside info) that he's not fully healthy and when he's practicing he's not going full contact.

 

I do agree that he's lost his place in line and will have to earn it back.  Competition is a good thing!

[ztboiler]

I'm not 100% sure about that.  Like SL12 said, it doesn't make sense to have him inactive when both of our starting G's are out.  You'd think you'd need him as a 'just in case' option.  And Grigs said he's been working out at G, so it's even more confusing when that's a thin position.

 

I'm guessing (purely a guess with no inside info) that he's not fully healthy and when he's practicing he's not going full contact.

 

I do agree that he's lost his place in line and will have to earn it back.  Competition is a good thing!

We are all guessing, and I agree that it is odd that Holmes didn't dress against the Texans with Thornton and Mewhort inactive.  However, we also had to make choices for who was active on defense with Butler and Jones out, so it could be as simple as only carrying 7 OL (not unusual) active and Meredith and Shipley are in front right now.

[Dark Superman]

Besides a few bad snaps Which weren't all his fault, Harrison had played well

[lollygagger8]

Nixon gets back....then we have all bases covered.  He is projected as backup to Cherilus at RT.  I know we have heard Mewhort maybe sliding over and even Reitz.  Reitz needs to stay comfortable on the left IMO.

 

I think we need better depth at LT and RT. 

 

Reitz is great at left guard, but idk about tackle. Mewhort doesn't pull very well/quickly (yes he's a rookie so maybe he gets better) so I would hope his feet were fast enough for tackle. Scary to think what would happen if Castanzo or Cherilus went down. 

[lollygagger8]

he didn't

 

I know he had Texas toast that night for dinner, but what is his favorite movie? 

[throwing BBZ]

Just listened to it. The OP paraphrased it as " Holmes played nine snaps for us and that's going to be it for the 2014 season". That's not what Grigs said.

He also never said anything about Holmes being inactive the rest of the year. He kept saying "We have three good centers". And they can all play guard.

Nice interview, he sounds like an honest guy, not just the usual cliche ridden coach speak.

Is that a regular weekly interview? Thanks for posting the link.

 

 You got it Smonroe, good post.

 Yes you can play AQ at guard, i hope i never see it.  Link was a 5 position player we were told! Cough! Cough!

  He mentioned Havili is back in the gym getting his strength back. Well, Holmes had a bad ankle and lost a lot of time in the weight room too.

 They see things they really like about Harrison. As i posted about Harrison after his 1st game and Grigs commented , he keeps his balance very  well in the battle. Think, the opposite of Thornton!

  He uses his long arms very well to punch his man. Something Shipley can`t do with his stubs.

  Harrison is a very promising prospect long term. Good Luck Holmes, your time will come.

  It is disappointing for me about Holmes as i believe he can be an upper tier Center. But i also have posted that he can be a VG G also.

[throwing BBZ]

Okay, so is Holmes still injured or has he just been a healthy scratch?

Last week we played without both Mewhort and Thornton and he still failed to be listed as active on game day.

I still am lost..

 

 We often only suit 7 O-Lineman on game day.

With a significantly injured ankle Holmes lost many weeks in the weight room on his lower body.

For the heavy work he would need to be near 100% i would think. so it will take him a number of weeks i would think to get his strength back.

 The knuckleheads are out when they say our staff was not happy with his skill level. Not that our Coaches would know what it takes! Pure silliness!!

[Dark Superman]

We often only suit 7 O-Lineman on game day.

With a significantly injured ankle Holmes lost many weeks in the weight room on his lower body.

For the heavy work he would need to be near 100% i would think. so it will take him a number of weeks i would think to get his strength back.

 The knuckleheads are out when they say our staff was not happy with his skill level. Not that our Coaches would know what it takes! Pure silliness!!

He's been out since August 7th.

That's 9 weeks.

He's been practicing since like week 2 how is he not healthy or close to being at full strength

[Superman]

He's been out since August 7th.

That's 9 weeks.

He's been practicing since like week 2 how is he not healthy or close to being at full strength

 

The idea that he's not healthy comes only from speculation by people who aren't at the facility. There's been no indication from the coaching staff or the front office that Holmes isn't healthy. They just decided that they wanted Harrison instead, and they haven't activated him on game day.

 

It kind of takes any questions about ego or favoritism out of the picture, IMO. They spent all offseason talking about Holmes as if he was a lock for the starting job. Through no fault of his own, he got hurt, and since then, he hasn't come close to getting on the field. They let the players compete for the job, and the guy who was the least likely to earn it is now starting. I'm disappointed that Holmes isn't on the field, but I don't think that any of this is a bad thing.

[Somewhere ovr the Waynebow]

Harrison had a great game blocking against the Texans. If this is the norm and he can manage some consistency, he is with a doubt the center of the future. Consistency is always elusive, however.

[Dark Superman]

The idea that he's not healthy comes only from speculation by people who aren't at the facility. There's been no indication from the coaching staff or the front office that Holmes isn't healthy. They just decided that they wanted Harrison instead, and they haven't activated him on game day.

 

It kind of takes any questions about ego or favoritism out of the picture, IMO. They spent all offseason talking about Holmes as if he was a lock for the starting job. Through no fault of his own, he got hurt, and since then, he hasn't come close to getting on the field. They let the players compete for the job, and the guy who was the least likely to earn it is now starting. I'm disappointed that Holmes isn't on the field, but I don't think that any of this is a bad thing.

Yeah I'm not complaining.. Harrison has been a true diamond in the rough. He's only going to get better as the season moves forward.

[Gavin]

I think some are kinda a bit to high on Harrison in my opinion at this point. I think he has had some great blocks but I don't think he is the answer at this point going forward unless he can blow D Linemen off the ball and work on his technique when he has someone directly over his face, He gets to up right and loses much of his power to drive a D Lineman back to often, With that said having Thornton next to him just has not done him any favors to often

[Chucklez]

This is the right move, our UDFA class between Purifoy, Kerr, and Harrison has been a massive success. 

 

Purifoy has been good for depth, special teams and as a future prospect for a starting corner.

The real success has been Kerr and Harrison. Kerr isn't just a space filler on that D-Line, he has been making plays, clogging up that D-line and pressuring opposing QB's, i've been really impressed with him.

Harrison, while making the odd communication mistake (and almost costing us the Houston game), has actually been pretty good despite that. Once he gets those nailed down I think he is actually one of the better Centers in the league. I'm not saying he is the best or a lock for the probowl or anything, but he is pretty solid, especially considering he is a rookie.

 

Herron might be another to include on this list if he ever gets more time. I know it was only preseason but he showed some real potential. He ran angry and with burst, a lot like Bradshaw. 

[Chucklez]

Absolutely amazing.... less than 6 months ago seemingly every man and his dog was screaming for us to trade for the Brown's Center Mack and cough up $10m in cap space.

Look what an UDFA has done for us..... <------ This is how you build a championship caliber team. By making great scouting decisions and building for the future on cap friendly deals. It allows you to keep your franchise players that will get you to the promised land... Mack wouldve decimated our salary cap for years to come.

[Smonroe]

Absolutely amazing.... less than 6 months ago seemingly every man and his dog was screaming for us to trade for the Brown's Center Mack and cough up $10m in cap space.

Look what an UDFA has done for us..... <------ This is how you build a championship caliber team. By making great scouting decisions and building for the future on cap friendly deals. It allows you to keep your franchise players that will get you to the promised land... Mack wouldve decimated our salary cap for years to come.

 

Hindsight...  I was one of those ... wishing... not screaming... that we could get Mack.  I still think that going all out for the O line is the right thing to do.  Look at the Cowboys.  When you can run the ball, everything opens up.

 

However, people who know a lot more about football than me have said that you shouldn't spend too much on interior linemen.  Grigs is obviously one of those people.  Most of us gave him a lot of grief about the O line (rightfully so last year I guess), but now we owe him his due.

 

As far as Boom, I've been saying it since he joined the team.  He's every bit as good as Ballard.  Who would think that an OSU featured back wouldn't be that good?  Pure ignorance!

[PeterBowman]

didn't Harrison also have a pancake block on JJ Watt last game?

 

thought I read that somewhere

 

dude is a physical beast and a good blocker (both run and pass)...once he and Luck get on the same page with the snaps things will be much better

[Superman]

I think some are kinda a bit to high on Harrison in my opinion at this point. I think he has had some great blocks but I don't think he is the answer at this point going forward unless he can blow D Linemen off the ball and work on his technique when he has someone directly over his face, He gets to up right and loses much of his power to drive a D Lineman back to often, With that said having Thornton next to him just has not done him any favors to often

 

Show me where he's missing blocks, blowing assignments, losing matchups, etc. I charted him in the Texans game, and he lost one assignment, was late on another screen block, and that was it. Out of 81 snaps.

 

And that's despite sometimes losing his technique. He still has the strength to complete blocks when he's over extended, when his footwork isn't right, etc. He sometimes makes combo blocks with one arm, then has the quickness to come off of the combo block to pick up another rusher and stop him, despite not being in great position. Imagine if he cleans up his technique.

[RockThatBlue]

I think Harrison has played pretty darn well for a UDFA who has only started twice. He will only get better the more he plays.

He hasn't been perfect, but its still only his first year. Nobody should expect him to not make a few rookie mistakes. I'm excited that we may have found our center. Hes a big strong dude.

[ztboiler]

Show me where he's missing blocks, blowing assignments, losing matchups, etc. I charted him in the Texans game, and he lost one assignment, was late on another screen block, and that was it. Out of 81 snaps.

 

And that's despite sometimes losing his technique. He still has the strength to complete blocks when he's over extended, when his footwork isn't right, etc. He sometimes makes combo blocks with one arm, then has the quickness to come off of the combo block to pick up another rusher and stop him, despite not being in great position. Imagine if he cleans up his technique.

When you put it like that, it is easy to see why they made an awkward looking change in week 5 to invest in the future without taking a step back in the present.

[BlueStallion]

I wonder if Harrison said "GET OVER HERE" in the Scorpion voice....

 

 

 

#94 of the Texans is Ryan Pickett (6' - 2", 340 lbs), a 14-year veteran NT.  It takes tremendous brute strength to shove someone that big and heavy to the ground.

[Superman]

When you put it like that, it is easy to see why they made an awkward looking change in week 5 to invest in the future without taking a step back in the present.

 

I wasn't impressed with Harrison in the preseason, so I couldn't understand it. But I didn't scout the guy, I don't know about his workouts or his college career, and I don't see him in practice everyday. He's been with the team since May, so they know him pretty well. 

 

And now, in two games, I definitely see the power and the ability to make blocks. He moves guys in the run game, he holds up against big pass rushers, he has good enough feet to move around and pick up blitzers, etc. And that's with unrefined technique. I get why they like him better than Shipley, who is overrated by the Internet. My only question is about what happened to Holmes, but it's really not that important at this point. Harrison looks more than capable, physically speaking. Just needs to clean up the mistakes with the snap.