Ryan Grigson- Starting to show a pattern?

[Flash7]

First, I would like to start by stating that this is not intended as a post to bash Ryan Grigson. Instead, I'd like it to be for a discussion of a possible pattern that I see forming.

 

When he stepped into his role as the GM, he did a good job of managing the cap situation. As you may recall, we were not in good shape. He quickly off-loaded a lot of the larger contracts which included letting some productive players go, (Clark, Addai, etc..) Additionally, he offered Garcon a contract that he felt was fair, but allowed him to walk. He went on to be very productive with Washington. I think this will be the case with Davis. He retained Wayne on a 'team friendly' contract and let Freeney go without an offer.

 

He had a great draft in 2012.

 

I've noticed however, that he has a value in mind and will not overpay to keep any particular player. With this in mind, I'd like to ask what will happen in two years when Luck, T.Y., Fleener, Allen, Ballard, and Richardson are in-line for new contracts. Who will he keep and who will he allow to walk?

 

This nucleus of young talent may only be around and together for a short period of time. Your thoughts?

[Indeee]

Ballard and trent are expendable at that point if neither live up to whats expected. Especially Richardson

Fleener and Allen will be determined as to which one is more valuable. If fleener doesn't show any more than an inconsistent pass catcher and route runner, I believe fleener will be shown the door

[chad72]

First, I would like to start by stating that this is not intended as a post to bash Ryan Grigson. Instead, I'd like it to be for a discussion of a possible pattern that I see forming.

 

When he stepped into his role as the GM, he did a good job of managing the cap situation. As you may recall, we were not in good shape. He quickly off-loaded a lot of the larger contracts which included letting some productive players go, (Clark, Addai, etc..) Additionally, he offered Garcon a contract that he felt was fair, but allowed him to walk. He went on to be very productive with Washington. I think this will be the case with Davis. He retained Wayne on a 'team friendly' contract and let Freeney go without an offer.

 

He had a great draft in 2012.

 

I've noticed however, that he has a value in mind and will not overpay to keep any particular player. With this in mind, I'd like to ask what will happen in two years when Luck, T.Y., Fleener, Allen, Ballard, and Richardson are in-line for new contracts. Who will he keep and who will he allow to walk?

 

This nucleus of young talent may only be around and together for a short period of time. Your thoughts?

 

This is one singular reason why I wanted the Colts to stop dabbling in 1 yr. stop gap WR options like Donnie Avery, DHB unlike others who want us to pursue Nicks.

 

I want the Colts to pursue James Jones and sign a 2 or 3 yr. contract so that if we were to lose one or two of Fleener, Allen, Ballard, Richardson, Brazil, we will have some vet pass catcher then and not still be relying on another rookie or Wayne. RBs, I am not worried about in this league.

 

In a year or two, we will be extending Luck and/or T.Y. to a big dollar amount. If I were the Colts, I'd extend T.Y. next year (after 2014 season) and Luck the following year (after 2015 season). So, it is time to put a few 3 yr. deals in place and cut down on the 1 yr. dabbling, IMO.

[LJpalmbeacher2]

Well I have a feeling that he will keep Luck.

[COLTS449]

He let those guys go because he wanted to build his own team. He will keep our young guys together. Luck, Hilton, Allen, ETC. Those guys aren't leaving.

[MB-ColtsFan]

It will be his first rookie class re-signing so there is no track record on him there. My gut feeling is that he also has a number in mind for each of those players in the 2022 class. That being said those are your core players so he has to be more flexible with the numbers. We can't afford to re-tool when we're so close to being a legit SB contender.

[Flash7]

He let those guys go because he wanted to build his own team. He will keep our young guys together. Luck, Hilton, Allen, ETC. Those guys aren't leaving.

Davis was one of his own signings, and if he walks away, then my theory might hold true.

[wig]

They will sign Luck for whatever it takes. Outside of that, I like his style. NE has stayed competitive consistently with the same model, I just hope he does a better job of hanging on to draft picks. In his defense, he's had to rebuild everything. Davis was worth a second and Hilton has shown he was correct as well. A couple years in, and now I expect a little more stability.

[sweetsurrender]

FA is always meant as a supplement. Contending teams are built through the draft as that is the cheapest way to get quality, young talent. Grig did not have a good draft last year and his trade for Richarson was a mistake and cost us a valuable number one. He needs to have a good draft this year or else the team will struggle regardless of how they fair in FA.

[NewColtsFan]

Ballard and trent are expendable at that point if neither live up to whats expected. Especially Richardson

Fleener and Allen will be determined as to which one is more valuable. If fleener doesn't show any more than an inconsistent pass catcher and route runner, I believe fleener will be shown the door

 

With respect....

 

Anyone can sit back and say if a player doesn't live up to expectations,  we'll cut him.   We'll show him the door.    The dumbest poster on this website (insert whoever you think that is....)  can figure that out.

 

Ryan Grigson will earn his money if he's faced with the fun but difficult dilemma...   what happens if the guys you name, plus others,  actually DO live up their expectations?    Then what?

 

Decisions become much, much more difficult.

 

Don't get me wrong -- we want the choices to be difficult,    But that's also why you want the franchise NOT to pay attention to what the fans say (you didn't say this, but another poster did recently)    You want a good GM to make those hard calls.

[NewColtsFan]

First, I would like to start by stating that this is not intended as a post to bash Ryan Grigson. Instead, I'd like it to be for a discussion of a possible pattern that I see forming.

 

When he stepped into his role as the GM, he did a good job of managing the cap situation. As you may recall, we were not in good shape. He quickly off-loaded a lot of the larger contracts which included letting some productive players go, (Clark, Addai, etc..) Additionally, he offered Garcon a contract that he felt was fair, but allowed him to walk. He went on to be very productive with Washington. I think this will be the case with Davis. He retained Wayne on a 'team friendly' contract and let Freeney go without an offer.

 

He had a great draft in 2012.

 

I've noticed however, that he has a value in mind and will not overpay to keep any particular player. With this in mind, I'd like to ask what will happen in two years when Luck, T.Y., Fleener, Allen, Ballard, and Richardson are in-line for new contracts. Who will he keep and who will he allow to walk?

 

This nucleus of young talent may only be around and together for a short period of time. Your thoughts?

 

Couple of comments....

 

Grigson let FORMERLY productive players go.   Almost everyone who left when Grigson arrived didn't do much of anything wherever they went.   Garcon is one of the few exceptions.    The decision was hard, NOT because he was letting good, or popular players go....    the decisions were hard because he and Irsay knew it mean one year of terrible salary cap Heck.

 

As for Freeney......   Grigson kept him for his last year and a huge hit to the salary cap.  To this day, that decision bothers Superman.   Thinks it was a huge mistake.   My instinct tells me that call may have been Irsay's....   but I don't know, that's a guess.

 

Freeney was let go after a $14 Million dollar season.   So, he got a nice parting gift on his way out town.

 

The future decisions will be hard......  but, we want them to be as hard as possible.    Hard decisions mean the players played well -- hopefully up to their potential -- that's a good problem to have.     But these decisions also have a way of working themselves out.    Between Grigson and Pagano, I trust them to make the right decisions. 

 

But,  that may be just me......

[Coffeedrinker]

Couple of comments....

 

Grigson let FORMERLY productive players go.   Almost everyone who left when Grigson arrived didn't do much of anything wherever they went.   Garcon is one of the few exceptions.    The decision was hard, NOT because he was letting good, or popular players go....    the decisions were hard because he and Irsay knew it mean one year of terrible salary cap Heck.

 

I don't know, that QB he decided to not sign has been pretty good for another team.  What was his name?  Oh yeah, Peyton Manning.

[Flash7]

Couple of comments....

 

Grigson let FORMERLY productive players go.   Almost everyone who left when Grigson arrived didn't do much of anything wherever they went.   Garcon is one of the few exceptions.    The decision was hard, NOT because he was letting good, or popular players go....    the decisions were hard because he and Irsay knew it mean one year of terrible salary cap Heck.

 

As for Freeney......   Grigson kept him for his last year and a huge hit to the salary cap.  To this day, that decision bothers Superman.   Thinks it was a huge mistake.   My instinct tells me that call may have been Irsay's....   but I don't know, that's a guess.

 

Freeney was let go after a $14 Million dollar season.   So, he got a nice parting gift on his way out town.

 

The future decisions will be hard......  but, we want them to be as hard as possible.    Hard decisions mean the players played well -- hopefully up to their potential -- that's a good problem to have.     But these decisions also have a way of working themselves out.    Between Grigson and Pagano, I trust them to make the right decisions. 

 

But,  that may be just me......

I agree with you about the FORMERLY productive players. I would've made the same decision, however, it was a stark difference with the way Polian operated, which was to pay for the players that were a part of the 'home grown' team. Grigson, I feel will be more about production than loyalty, and he has a value in mind for each position, and player. I do not see him overpaying for players that perform really well, even if the market dictates.

 

I think this thought process may have been at the forefront for me at the moment because of the Davis situation. He traded a second round draft pick for Davis, essentially drafting him in 2012. Davis performed really well and can now demand top dollar, as he is doing. I think Grigson allows him to walk, in which case, I think he would be open to allowing other guys like T.Y., Fleener, Ballard, Allen, etc...walk.

[sweetsurrender]

I don't know, that QB he decided to not sign has been pretty good for another team.  What was his name?  Oh yeah, Peyton Manning.

He cut Manning.

[NewColtsFan]

I don't know, that QB he decided to not sign has been pretty good for another team.  What was his name?  Oh yeah, Peyton Manning.

 

That wasn't Grigson's call...    it was Irsay's....

 

And you know it.

 

And you also know it was the right call to make.

[NewColtsFan]

I agree with you about the FORMERLY productive players. I would've made the same decision, however, it was a stark difference with the way Polian operated, which was to pay for the players that were a part of the 'home grown' team. Grigson, I feel will be more about production than loyalty, and he has a value in mind for each position, and player. I do not see him overpaying for players that perform really well, even if the market dictates.

 

I think this thought process may have been at the forefront for me at the moment because of the Davis situation. He traded a second round draft pick for Davis, essentially drafting him in 2012. Davis performed really well and can now demand top dollar, as he is doing. I think Grigson allows him to walk, in which case, I think he would be open to allowing other guys like T.Y., Fleener, Ballard, Allen, etc...walk.

 

You make some good arguments.......

 

I think Grigson wants to be as loyal as he can.    Really.    Seriously.

 

As loyal as the business will allow.

 

But at the end of the day,  it is a bottom line industry and you've got to be able to produce.

 

So.....   will Grigson let guys go who he thinks are asking for too much and will screw up his salary cap?    Yeah, I think he will.

[Coffeedrinker]

He cut Manning.

 

 

That wasn't Grigson's call...    it was Irsay's....

 

And you know it.

 

And you also know it was the right call to make.

My point was not whether or not it was the right call, just that players other than Garcon have done well with other teams.  And I don't know for sure if it was Irsay's call or Grigs but that is one of the things that bothers me about Grigs as GM, he doesn't seem to have the guts to stand up to Irsay.

[ztboiler]

Couple of comments....

 

Grigson let FORMERLY productive players go.   Almost everyone who left when Grigson arrived didn't do much of anything wherever they went.   Garcon is one of the few exceptions.    The decision was hard, NOT because he was letting good, or popular players go....    the decisions were hard because he and Irsay knew it mean one year of terrible salary cap Heck.

 

As for Freeney......   Grigson kept him for his last year and a huge hit to the salary cap.  To this day, that decision bothers Superman.   Thinks it was a huge mistake.   My instinct tells me that call may have been Irsay's....   but I don't know, that's a guess.

 

Freeney was let go after a $14 Million dollar season.   So, he got a nice parting gift on his way out town.

 

The future decisions will be hard......  but, we want them to be as hard as possible.    Hard decisions mean the players played well -- hopefully up to their potential -- that's a good problem to have.     But these decisions also have a way of working themselves out.    Between Grigson and Pagano, I trust them to make the right decisions. 

 

But,  that may be just me......

With Freeney and how the $14M played out in 2012, I've always thought that the new regime had a genuine desire to see him in the new scheme - hoping beyond hope that he might adapt - not some artificial lifetime achievement award.  Since Freeney wouldn't modify his deal, their only choice was to pay and play or cut and run.  It was an expensive experiment,  but they chose to pay and play with no long term commitment.

[ricker182]

I don't know, that QB he decided to not sign has been pretty good for another team. What was his name? Oh yeah, Peyton Manning.

Are we really going start talking about Peyton Manning....

[sweetsurrender]

My point was not whether or not it was the right call, just that players other than Garcon have done well with other teams.  And I don't know for sure if it was Irsay's call or Grigs but that is one of the things that bothers me about Grigs as GM, he doesn't seem to have the guts to stand up to Irsay.

Valid point for sure but each player has his own history and business economics. 

[NewColtsFan]

My point was not whether or not it was the right call, just that players other than Garcon have done well with other teams.  And I don't know for sure if it was Irsay's call or Grigs but that is one of the things that bothers me about Grigs as GM, he doesn't seem to have the guts to stand up to Irsay.

 

How you know that?    How does any of us really know that?

 

You don't know what Irsay wanted and if Grigson had to talk him out of it?     We don't know.....

[Coffeedrinker]

Are we really going start talking about Peyton Manning....

Why not?  he's a good football player and it was pertinent to the point I was making.  Are you really going to cry about someone mentioning Manning?

[Coffeedrinker]

How you know that?    How does any of us really know that?

 

You don't know what Irsay wanted and if Grigson had to talk him out of it?     We don't know.....

I don't know, that is why I put the word "seems" in there.  Like you stated it was Irsay decision on Manning, that is supposed to be the job of the GM.  THere are reports that state Irsay pushed Grigs into trading for TRich.

[Jason_]

My point was not whether or not it was the right call, just that players other than Garcon have done well with other teams.  And I don't know for sure if it was Irsay's call or Grigs but that is one of the things that bothers me about Grigs as GM, he doesn't seem to have the guts to stand up to Irsay.

 

Prior to hiring Grigson, Irsay said that he would make the final decisions on Manning and the #1 pick, but after that the new GM would be in charge of personnel decisions.  I really don't think Grigson had any influence at all in the Manning decision.

[lollygagger8]

You make some good arguments.......

 

I think Grigson wants to be as loyal as he can.    Really.    Seriously.

 

As loyal as the business will allow.

 

But at the end of the day,  it is a bottom line industry and you've got to be able to produce.

 

So.....   will Grigson let guys go who he thinks are asking for too much and will screw up his salary cap?    Yeah, I think he will.

 

Grigson is definitely loyal.

 

He kept McGlynn, Satele, and hasn't given up on T-Rich yet. 

 

I also agree that he will let people walk if he thinks they aren't living up to the money they are getting/trying to get. 

 

I don't know what pattern he might/might not be showing, but let's hope he emulates the quality of his 2012 draft picks this year. 

[Coffeedrinker]

Prior to hiring Grigson, Irsay said that he would make the final decisions on Manning and the #1 pick, but after that the new GM would be in charge of personnel decisions.  I really don't think Grigson had any influence at all in the Manning decision.

Like I said, it seems he doesn't have the guts to stand up to Irsay.  But that opinion is based more on the TRIch trade than anything related to Manning.

[Flash7]

Like I said, it seems he doesn't have the guts to stand up to Irsay.  But that opinion is based more on the TRIch trade than anything related to Manning.

There are a few ways to evaluate this:

 

1. You can base your opinion on what's been stated on different media outlets, some which have hinted that the TRich trade was due to Irsay;

 

-or-

 

2. You can base your opinion by what Grigson says and by his actions. Grigson was awarded the Executive of the year in 2012. He was not scared of losing his job by standing up to Irsay. He had gained Irsay's trust and he pulled off the trade for Richardson. He then went on to defend Richardson and the trade, to the point that he looked foolish. IMO, he would not do this if he were forced to make this trade by Irsay.

[Valpo2004]

My point was not whether or not it was the right call, just that players other than Garcon have done well with other teams.  And I don't know for sure if it was Irsay's call or Grigs but that is one of the things that bothers me about Grigs as GM, he doesn't seem to have the guts to stand up to Irsay.

 

Because most people can tell their boss to shut up.  In fact you have inspired me, I'm gonna go tell my boss right now that's he's running his own company wrong and he sucks.  

 

Seriously?  Saying he doesn't have the guts to stand up to Irsay?  Who is the boss?  Who's the team owner?  It's not Grigs job to stand up to him, it's Irsay's job to let Grigson do his job in the first place.

[Coffeedrinker]

Because most people can tell their boss to shut up.  In fact you have inspired me, I'm gonna go tell my boss right now that's he's running his own company wrong and he sucks.  

 

Seriously?  Saying he doesn't have the guts to stand up to Irsay?  Who is the boss?  Who's the team owner?  It's not Grigs job to stand up to him, it's Irsay's job to let Grigson do his job in the first place.

When my boss tells me to do something that is outside his area of expertise and it's not the right way to go, I tell him so.  My boss hires people that are good at their jobs and bring something unique to the table, he doesn't hire, "yes" men.

[GoColts8818]

I think Luck, Hilton, one of the tightends (if not both), and one of the runningbacks are the foundation of the offense going forward.  So I would expect them to be kept. I think Grigson knows this which is why he has already made noise about watching the Colts spending this off-season to make sure they have the money they need next off-season.

 

The other part of the equation is that Wayne will be a free agent next year.  If Wayne doesn't hang them up and the Colts invest in a big WR this year and Hilton next off-season they might have to make a really hard choice of Reggie that wont win Grigson many friends here.

[Coffeedrinker]

There are a few ways to evaluate this:

 

1. You can base your opinion on what's been stated on different media outlets, some which have hinted that the TRich trade was due to Irsay;

 

-or-

 

2. You can base your opinion by what Grigson says and by his actions. Grigson was awarded the Executive of the year in 2012. He was not scared of losing his job by standing up to Irsay. He had gained Irsay's trust and he pulled off the trade for Richardson. He then went on to defend Richardson and the trade, to the point that he looked foolish. IMO, he would not do this if he were forced to make this trade by Irsay.

True and I have stated that this is how things seem to me and that I don't have any insider knowledge about the situation.

 

To your second point, that is exactly what he would do if he doesn't have the guts to stand up to Irsay.

 

And don't get me wrong, I like Grigson as a overall, I just think when push comes to shove, Irsay will get his way.

[NewColtsFan]

I don't know, that is why I put the word "seems" in there.  Like you stated it was Irsay decision on Manning, that is supposed to be the job of the GM.  THere are reports that state Irsay pushed Grigs into trading for TRich.

 

Wouldn't surprise me....   but, if true,  I wouldn't expect Grigson to resign over this....  I suspect he did his best to try and talk Irsay out of the deal...    but when he couldn't,  he went along.    The deal was going to happen....    the question would be whether it could've been done for less than our #1.     Like a #2 and a conditional #5 or something like that?

 

Irsay is a handful.    He also might've pushed to spend a #2 on Davis and maybe we could've held out for a #3?   Don't know?

 

But, on balance, I like Grigson......   so, I'm willing to see how he shapes our next few years...

[BLUEx40]

he only donsnt overpay his own players but players the landry and RJF get outrageous contracts

[Superman]

I don't know, that is why I put the word "seems" in there.  Like you stated it was Irsay decision on Manning, that is supposed to be the job of the GM.  THere are reports that state Irsay pushed Grigs into trading for TRich.

 

Where are these reports?

[Dustin]

Where are these reports?

 

There was no report. It was written on rotoworld:

 

Vic Lombardi of CBS 4 Denver reports the Colts "have interest" in free agent Eric Decker.

The Colts have a plethora of young wide receiver and tight end talent, but paying big bucks to Decker would be a move typical of increasingly meddlesome owner Jim Irsay, who spent heartily in 2013 free agency before pressuring GM Ryan Grigson into dealing for Trent Richardson. Easily this year's top free agent wideout, Decker is going to be paid like a No. 1A receiver on the open market. He'd be a great match out wide for Andrew Luck, but upgrading Luck's protection would probably be a better approach for the Colts. Irsay prefers splashy moves.

 

Definitely not the most reliable source considering Florio's disdain towards Irsay. 

[Jason_]

he only donsnt overpay his own players but players the landry and RJF get outrageous contracts

 

lol...yeah, not really

[BLUEx40]

lol...yeah, not really

so you find their productivity equal to their pay?

[Superman]

 

There was no report. It was written on rotoworld:

 

Vic Lombardi of CBS 4 Denver reports the Colts "have interest" in free agent Eric Decker.

The Colts have a plethora of young wide receiver and tight end talent, but paying big bucks to Decker would be a move typical of increasingly meddlesome owner Jim Irsay, who spent heartily in 2013 free agency before pressuring GM Ryan Grigson into dealing for Trent Richardson. Easily this year's top free agent wideout, Decker is going to be paid like a No. 1A receiver on the open market. He'd be a great match out wide for Andrew Luck, but upgrading Luck's protection would probably be a better approach for the Colts. Irsay prefers splashy moves.

 

Definitely not the most reliable source considering Florio's disdain towards Irsay. 

 

 

I don't remember anything other than blogosphere conjecture regarding Irsay's involvement with the decision. Much like this PFT garbage, which is typical.

 

It's possible that Irsay pressured Grigson into the trade, although I doubt it. But I don't remember any credible "reports" suggesting it.

[Defjamz26]

They will sign Luck for whatever it takes. Outside of that, I like his style. NE has stayed competitive consistently with the same model, I just hope he does a better job of hanging on to draft picks. In his defense, he's had to rebuild everything. Davis was worth a second and Hilton has shown he was correct as well. A couple years in, and now I expect a little more stability.

 

But NE is a diff situation because they have a coach who is a top 5 GOAT so no matter who he has, he'll have a playoff team every year. We don't have that coach. Personally I don't see Pagano as the coach for another 6 years. I think Chudzinski could take over eventually. But even then, we need quality players. Not like what Grigson has in NE where all he needs is Tom Brady and an Elite O-Line to make everything work.

 

It's cool to be the guy that takes the bottom of the barrel guys and still can make a Superbowl quality team, but passing on obvious talent is also the quickest way to be shown the door as the G.M. If Jerry Jones wasn't the G.M., President, and Owner of the Cowboys, he would have been shown the door awhile ago. Bilichek gets away with it because he's that type of coach.

[Jason_]

so you find their productivity equal to their pay?

 

With RJF to this point, yes.  Landry is still up in the air.  However both suffered injuries that also affected their production.  

 

More importantly though, there is some middle ground in between "productivity equal to their pay" and "outrageous contracts"