Who is cuttable?

[bertjones#1]

Cut Shepard, RJF, Franklin,and Landry.Really need to find a safety that can cover and a linebacker that can tackle.

Thought Landry had a terrible year ... not suprised this is his 3rd team he`s always looking for a big hit instead of just tackling the guy.

[Valpo2004]

Just to settle this, we pay Trents full salary in dead money if we cut him, no?

 

Contracts get a little weird after trades.  So I'm not sure how it works but it looks like his salary for each year is fully guaranteed or something like that.

 

Basically it does no good to cut him.  

 

http://overthecap.com/cap.php?Name=Trent%20Richardson&Position=RB&Team=Colts

[Valpo2004]

Our secondary as a unit played much better when he was healthy. He's gonna be a natural target for fans because of his health concerns and the potential cap relief from cutting him.

I'd rather see Satele go, but maybe he's serviceable as a veteran who knows the line calls if we can improve the situation at guard.

 

Satele obviously needs to go, I just think we're missing out on a big opportunity by not signing a FA CB and dumping Toler.  I don't think they will do it, but I think they should do it.  

 

I'm hoping at least they draft one high so that the rookie can step in when Toler inevitability gets hurt in the 3rd game of the regular season.  

[Superman]

Our secondary as a unit played much better when he was healthy. He's gonna be a natural target for fans because of his health concerns and the potential cap relief from cutting him.

I'd rather see Satele go, but maybe he's serviceable as a veteran who knows the line calls if we can improve the situation at guard.

 

I think it's time for Satele. When he's on the field, he doesn't perform well. 

 

Most message boards will pick out a few players a year that they hate, and no matter what, they'll gripe and moan until those players are gone. That's what's happened with Toler. His injury and the way it was handled doesn't help, but he's a solid player that I think our team can continue to use, so long as he's on the field. And just examining the overall picture, it's smarter for us to hang on to him at least through camp.

[Superman]

Contracts get a little weird after trades.  So I'm not sure how it works but it looks like his salary for each year is fully guaranteed or something like that.

 

Basically it does no good to cut him.  

 

http://overthecap.com/cap.php?Name=Trent%20Richardson&Position=RB&Team=Colts

 

Exactly. His salary is guaranteed, so we pay him in full even if we cut him. And there's no offset language, which means that even if another team picks him up, we still have to pay him in full. The long and short of it is that he's going to be a Colt, regardless what anyone thinks of him.

[Le Neon]

Satele obviously needs to go, I just think we're missing out on a big opportunity by not signing a FA CB and dumping Toler. I don't think they will do it, but I think they should do it.

I'm hoping at least they draft one high so that the rookie can step in when Toler inevitability gets hurt in the 3rd game of the regular season.

Cutting Toler is reasonable and saves us a chunk of change, but he's a valuable player on the field when (if?) he's actually healthy. I think the scenario of Toler starting long enough for a rookie to develop and be able to step in when he gets hurt is a likely one.

[OLD FAN MAN]

Our secondary as a unit played much better when he was healthy. He's gonna be a natural target for fans because of his health concerns and the potential cap relief from cutting him.

I'd rather see Satele go, but maybe he's serviceable as a veteran who knows the line calls if we can improve the situation at guard.

if we cant upgrade center imo keep satele, he was playing better toward the end of the season, he seemed to get better the more the same line was on the field, and he knows our system

[azcolt]

Exactly. His salary is guaranteed, so we pay him in full even if we cut him. And there's no offset language, which means that even if another team picks him up, we still have to pay him in full. The long and short of it is that he's going to be a Colt, regardless what anyone thinks of him.

Wasting a valuable roster space just to avoid admitting a bad mistake is stupid. The Colts should cut him or least try to find a trade partner that would take his salary in exchange for a bag of used footballs.

[Tark The Shark]

As much as I think Walden did a good job, with the drafting of Bjoern, we should consider cutting him. 

 

Let's give the kid as much game reps as he can, or else why draft him? It will turn into a situation like Jerry Hughes.

[Superman]

Wasting a valuable roster space just to avoid admitting a bad mistake is stupid. The Colts should cut him or least try to find a trade partner that would take his salary in exchange for a bag of used footballs.

 

I disagree with your premise. Keeping Richardson isn't wasting a roster spot, and it has nothing to do with admitting a mistake. He's a solid running back who needs to get better and needs better blocking. He's not making a lot of money, and cutting him would be wasting money.

 

I don't have any desire to argue the extremes here. Richardson is going to be with the Colts next season.

[Superman]

As much as I think Walden did a good job, with the drafting of Bjoern, we should consider cutting him. 

 

Let's give the kid as much game reps as he can, or else why draft him? It will turn into a situation like Jerry Hughes.

 

It's so much different than the Jerry Hughes situation. Werner gets plenty of reps in a rotational role, and that will continue. With his injury and early season struggles, I think his reps got limited a bit. But he'll get more opportunities as we rest Mathis and sub him in for Walden in pass rushing opportunities.

[Valpo2004]

Wasting a valuable roster space just to avoid admitting a bad mistake is stupid. The Colts should cut him or least try to find a trade partner that would take his salary in exchange for a bag of used footballs.

 

Just clearing a roster spot isn't worth throwing away a guy who has good potential.  Let's at least give him a training camp with us before we throw him away as a sunk cost.  

[Danfish98]

Richardson is not going anywhere as long as he's under his rookie contract.  It's cheap and we gave up a first round pick for the guy.  I don't really think he's going to get much better but cutting him would be insane.  Werner plays a different position than Walden.  Walden would cost us more against the cap to cut than to keep and he played well for us.  Satele better be cut.  Personally, I would also cut Toler.  I get the argument that he was decent when not hurt, but I would sign a different guy who has shown the ability to stay healthy.  I get Superman's argument of waiting until camp, but by then you can't sign someone else if he doesn't work out.  Landry is also going nowhere.  Get a better FS that's better in coverage and Landry becomes a lot more valuable plus he'd cost an extra 1/2 a million against the cap if we cut him.  The only 2 potential cuts I see are Satele and Toler and Satele is the only must cut IMO.

[Superman]

Richardson is not going anywhere as long as he's under his rookie contract.  It's cheap and we gave up a first round pick for the guy.  I don't really think he's going to get much better but cutting him would be insane.  Werner plays a different position than Walden.  Walden would cost us more against the cap to cut than to keep and he played well for us.  Satele better be cut.  Personally, I would also cut Toler.  I get the argument that he was decent when not hurt, but I would sign a different guy who has shown the ability to stay healthy.  I get Superman's argument of waiting until camp, but by then you can't sign someone else if he doesn't work out.  Landry is also going nowhere.  Get a better FS that's better in coverage and Landry becomes a lot more valuable plus he'd cost an extra 1/2 a million against the cap if we cut him.  The only 2 potential cuts I see are Satele and Toler and Satele is the only must cut IMO.

 

Sure you can. There are veteran players at plenty of positions still available at that point of the season. Best case scenario, Toler does work out. But if he doesn't, and you want to add depth at CB or another position, you can, very easily. Chris Crocker was available until Week 4. I would draft a CB and sign a vet for depth, and that makes Toler a little more expendable if he's not playing well.

[coltsfanatic24]

The obvious two are Satele and Toler, both will be cut. RJF should be cut imo but he won't because he was overpaid. RJF is not a good pass rusher and he's not good against the run, he's nothing more then a depth guy like he was with the 49ers. I think we should draft a DE because i'm not seeing anything from RJF that suggests he's a starter. Landry was a pro bowler last year, Manusky played him out of position most of the year but with Bethea gone i think Landry will play at a high level again. 

[FearTheNeckBearded]

Toler had 2 good games, and we waited for him all year, we knew he has decent, but it's really worth it if he's injured all year?

[Balzer40]

The obvious two are Satele and Toler, both will be cut. RJF should be cut imo but he won't because he was overpaid. RJF is not a good pass rusher and he's not good against the run, he's nothing more then a depth guy like he was with the 49ers. I think we should draft a DE because i'm not seeing anything from RJF that suggests he's a starter. Landry was a pro bowler last year, Manusky played him out of position most of the year but with Bethea gone i think Landry will play at a high level again. 

 

 

 

1st of all, it's not obvious that Toler will be cut. In fact, I would bet he will not be cut because it saves us nothing if we did and it would be down right stupid to do it. 

 

Secondly, I don't know where you and a few others keep coming up with the nonsense that RJF isn't good. He played very well this season when healthy and I'll repeat it again...it is not his job to rush the QB. I really do not know how many times this needs to be said, not only by me but others as well. 

[coltsfanatic24]

Cutting Toler will save us from not worrying week to week is he gonna play or not, the guy is injury prone has been his entire career. When he was healhy he had a couple of good games but for the most part he's been bad. He was a career backup for the Cardinals and only came in to play the slot. We would be better off drafting a CB then have to deal with Toler for another year.

 

 

 

1st of all, it's not obvious that Toler will be cut. In fact, I would bet he will not be cut because it saves us nothing if we did and it would be down right stupid to do it. 

 

Secondly, I don't know where you and a few others keep coming up with the nonsense that RJF isn't good. He played very well this season when healthy and I'll repeat it again...it is not his job to rush the QB. I really do not know how many times this needs to be said, not only by me but others as well. 

[coltsfanatic24]

The reason me and a few others say RJF isn't good because he just isn't. He was a career backup with the 49ers and I wasn't impressed with him when he was there. Every defensive end job is to rush the passer and stop the run, him being there just to stop the run is nonsense. It doesn't have to be sacks but QB hurries and Tfl is what DE's supposed to do. Moala and Lawrence guy looked better then RJF especially rushing the passer. He's getting paid like a pro bowler he should be able to do a lot more then he's doing. This is one of if not the worst FA signings this year. 

 

Cutting Toler will save us from not worrying week to week is he gonna play or not, the guy is injury prone has been his entire career. When he was healhy he had a couple of good games but for the most part he's been bad. He was a career backup for the Cardinals and only came in to play the slot. We would be better off drafting a CB then have to deal with Toler for another year.

[Balzer40]

Cutting Toler will save us from not worrying week to week is he gonna play or not, the guy is injury prone has been his entire career. When he was healhy he had a couple of good games but for the most part he's been bad. He was a career backup for the Cardinals and only came in to play the slot. We would be better off drafting a CB then have to deal with Toler for another year.

 

 

 

I don't agree at all that Toler was bad and I really do not know how anybody could come to that conclusion. After he went down our secondary was awful where when he was healthy, they were very good. I know he's not a top tier CB, but I highly doubt that we would be able to afford one if we resign Davis, which I hope we do. Yes, he has been injury prone, but I still don't see the point in  cutting him this offseason if it's not going to save us major money and it won't.

[coltsfanatic24]

Toler was bad against the Raiders, Dolphins, Broncos, Chargers. Chiefs. Pretty much any good team with a QB and a above average WR he played bad against. Mike Wallace who's been bad all year had his best and only good game vs Toler. He's a slot CB trying to play as a #2 but we have Butler for the slot. Toler being on the team will hurt us more then help, not a big drop off from Toler to Gordy. There will be some good CB's available in the 2nd round we could get.

 

I don't agree at all that Toler was bad and I really do not know how anybody could come to that conclusion. After he went down our secondary was awful where when he was healthy, they were very good. I know he's not a top tier CB, but I highly doubt that we would be able to afford one if we resign Davis, which I hope we do. Yes, he has been injury prone, but I still don't see the point in  cutting him this offseason if it's not going to save us major money and it won't.

[Gavin]

The way some people act about Toler around here you would think he was Darelle Revis or Richard Sherman

[Danfish98]

The reason me and a few others say RJF isn't good because he just isn't. He was a career backup with the 49ers and I wasn't impressed with him when he was there. Every defensive end job is to rush the passer and stop the run, him being there just to stop the run is nonsense. It doesn't have to be sacks but QB hurries and Tfl is what DE's supposed to do. Moala and Lawrence guy looked better then RJF especially rushing the passer. He's getting paid like a pro bowler he should be able to do a lot more then he's doing. This is one of if not the worst FA signings this year. 

 

His job isn't to rush the passer.  His job is to stop the run and he did that pretty well.  He's also being paid like a typical starting defensive lineman in the league, not an all pro.  Moala looked better?  That's beyond not true, that's just crazy talk.  Depending on how Hughes works out we may need a DE soon, but it won't be to replace RJF, it will be to replace Redding once his production and/or health drops off due to age.

[coltsfanatic24]

I understand that DE's main priority is to stop the run but when the QB's pass what he does he suppose to do just stand there? RJF hasn't been good against the run either and he's not doing anything as a pass rusher. He's not getting any type of push up front that is needed from a DE. Redding even at 33 has played better then RJF both against the run and pass. Redding needs to be replaced only because of his age, RJF needs to be replaced because he isn't good.

 

His job isn't to rush the passer.  His job is to stop the run and he did that pretty well.  He's also being paid like a typical starting defensive lineman in the league, not an all pro.  Moala looked better?  That's beyond not true, that's just crazy talk.  Depending on how Hughes works out we may need a DE soon, but it won't be to replace RJF, it will be to replace Redding once his production and/or health drops off due to age.

[Balzer40]

I understand that DE's main priority is to stop the run but when the QB's pass what he does he suppose to do just stand there? RJF hasn't been good against the run either and he's not doing anything as a pass rusher. He's not getting any type of push up front that is needed from a DE. Redding even at 33 has played better then RJF both against the run and pass. Redding needs to be replaced only because of his age, RJF needs to be replaced because he isn't good.

 

 

 

His job when the QB passes is to occupy 2 blockers to allow the LBer's to make the plays. Thats the problem, we do not have real good LBers. Mathis is pretty much just a pass rusher, Walden has done well in his role, Werner is nothing special at all, Freeman is not a true 3-4 ILBer(he's a good LBer, but a much better fit as a MLBer in a 4-3), and we really do not have another ILBer worthy of a starting role. 

[Coffeedrinker]

There are lots of free agent CB's on the market who are good enough to start.  

 

http://walterfootball.com/freeagents2014CB.php

 

Toler counts for 4.8 million against the cap and we can save 4.2 million by cutting him.  

 

He has an injury history before us and spent the vast majority of the season injured to the point that we would have been better off putting him on IR.  

 

And I didn't see anything from in him that made me think he's worth 4.2 million even while on the field.  The only memorable play he ever made with us was during pre-season.  

At least half of that list have injury concerns, a few more are RFA.  Then when you factor in that teams rarely let young, productive players go, there are about 3 or 4 on that list that may actually hit the open market and those will probably be the guys 30+ years of age.  And, IMO, you don't build a team by signing FA from other teams that are on the downside of their careers.

 

The Colts may take a chance on a couple of the younger CBs especially if they are coming off an injury but that is what they did with Toler.

[Danfish98]

His job when the QB passes is to occupy 2 blockers to allow the LBer's to make the plays. Thats the problem, we do not have real good LBers. Mathis is pretty much just a pass rusher, Walden has done well in his role, Werner is nothing special at all, Freeman is not a true 3-4 ILBer(he's a good LBer, but a much better fit as a MLBer in a 4-3), and we really do not have another ILBer worthy of a starting role. 

 

Total agreement about RJF's role in rushing the passer and our LB problem there.  Mathis has become much better against the run than he used to be and obviously is a beast when rushing the passer.  Walden is decent.  Freeman isn't a prototypical ILB but he's got way too much talent to not play.  Put a big guy next to him that's a legit 3-4 ILB starter and most of our LB issues go away.

[COLTSFAN12to13]

Satele and Landry gotta go. 

[Bluefire4]

Of course Satele is garbage. Toler has only been here one year, give him another year to show his worth.

[Colts_Fan12]

Especially when seeing that we will need a new FS, ILB, and DL help.

There is this thing called the draft

[Buck Showalter]

This thread about onions & hookers???

[BOTT]

The way some people act about Toler around here you would think he was Darelle Revis or Richard Sherman

The way some people act you would think Toler is Jacob Lacey pt2.

[Gavin]

The way some people act you would think Toler is Jacob Lacey pt2.

Unfortunately he cant stay healthy long enough to see

[trueblueblood]

cut toler, snatch verner

[ponyboy]

I disagree with your premise. Keeping Richardson isn't wasting a roster spot, and it has nothing to do with admitting a mistake. He's a solid running back who needs to get better and needs better blocking. He's not making a lot of money, and cutting him would be wasting money.

 

I don't have any desire to argue the extremes here. Richardson is going to be with the Colts next season.

 

 

Agreed, he's already paid for.  Unless somebody offers a decent trade (2nd or 3rd round), we have him for 2 more years.  If his rushing doesn't significantly improve early next season he could still be a good situational guy for passing situations (and the 3rd RB in the rotation).

[ponyboy]

cut toler, snatch verner

 

This sounds like a slam dunk if we could free up 4.5M by cutting Toler (and his injury history) and replacing him with Verner (who has played 16 games each year) for around 5M.  Fortunately, Toler's contract was setup to allow for this.

[jskinnz]

Wasting a valuable roster space just to avoid admitting a bad mistake is stupid. The Colts should cut him or least try to find a trade partner that would take his salary in exchange for a bag of used footballs.

When digging yourself a hole, stop digging. In other words, you said something silly and backed it up with something not much better.

[Horse Shoe Heaven]

There are lots of free agent CB's on the market who are good enough to start.  

 

http://walterfootball.com/freeagents2014CB.php

 

Toler counts for 4.8 million against the cap and we can save 4.2 million by cutting him.  

 

He has an injury history before us and spent the vast majority of the season injured to the point that we would have been better off putting him on IR.  

 

And I didn't see anything from in him that made me think he's worth 4.2 million even while on the field.  The only memorable play he ever made with us was during pre-season.  

Perhaps you should watch the games again!

[jvan1973]

Wasting a valuable roster space just to avoid admitting a bad mistake is stupid. The Colts should cut him or least try to find a trade partner that would take his salary in exchange for a bag of used footballs.

i see reality isn't your thing...

[esmort]

I am not in favor of immediately throwing Toler on the chopping block.  Our secondary seemed significantly better with him out there when he was healthy.  If he can get healthy and stay healthy than I think he is a good #2, especially for the price.

 

...but....

 

With that being said I would not be against seeing what CBs were available in the $5-$6 million range in FA.  If we can swing someone as good or better than Toler without the injury concerns for around that price,  I would not be opposed to an upgrade.