Offical Trent Richardson discussion/thoughts/opinions thread.

[YOUR GM]

Brown was completely useless until the last drive

"Until" being the operative word. Whereas Richardson is just, in fact, useless

[hawkeyes]

How in the world did a discussion about brown get merged into another discussion about TR? 

 

14 for 54 yards hmph - said through 14 carries he would avg 3.78 - almost spot on.    His next carry would have been for 60+ ... he came pretty close to breaking a couple!

 

DB is for REAL!

[husker61]

brown got the job done at the end of the game when tenn was trying to stop the run so the colts couldn't kill the clock. this kills the argument about tr facing stacked fronts and brown not.

 

but i still have that feeling that all those people will still not admit that they were wrong, and keep making the same excuses.

[Gabriel Alexander Morillo]

Brown had some damn good runs the last drive, all in thw Power formations with stacked boxes. Trent looked awful all day every drive, brown looked awful except for 1 drive. I'll take 1 breakout drive over 0... 

[azcolt]

Trent looked much better today, at least while he was on the bench,

[NewEra]

Wow, you Trent haters are totally delusional and blind. It's actually getting quite comical. Brown didn't all of a sudden start running on that last drive. Somehow we were able to actually start blocking and getting some holes opened up. Till then since you guys like to ride the ypc sack Trent was the better back. The line finally blocked that last drive. Brown did an awesome job of making the best out if it.

[BOTT]

Wow, you Trent haters are totally delusional and blind. It's actually getting quite comical. Brown didn't all of a sudden start running on that last drive. Somehow we were able to actually start blocking and getting some holes opened up. Till then since you guys like to ride the ypc sack Trent was the better back. The line finally blocked that last drive. Brown did an awesome job of making the best out if it.

At some point you have to wave the white flag

[NewEra]

At some point you have to wave the white flag

Yeah you're right. Don't have to agree with it but it's a pure waste of time. Nobody wins...

[esmort]

Yeah you're right. Don't have to agree with it but it's a pure waste of time. Nobody wins...

 

What has he done in your eyes to justify you defending him so fervently?

[NewEra]

What has he done in your eyes to justify you defending him so fervently?

He has shown signs. I think between our line, and play calling He has been behind the ball from the start. I defend him cause I take him for what it is. A good running back who may have been drafted to high. Not our fault but we have him now and we need to put him in the best position for us as a team to succeed.

[dudeski]

Brown had some damn good runs the last drive, all in thw Power formations with stacked boxes. Trent looked awful all day every drive, brown looked awful except for 1 drive. I'll take 1 breakout drive over 0...

trich looked awful on 1 carry. Not all game. But that doesn't fit your agenda

[#12]

From this point forward, Richardson should have to earn his carries.  The guy is a flat out drive-killer.  The majority of his carries should go elsewhere.  Give him a few carries here and there - if he proves himself, give him more.  If not, so be it.  #1 pick be damned. 

 

If, beginning next season, you want to give him a fesh look(with more leeway) behind a new line, that's understandable.  But currently, we're in a playoff push.  Put the best players on the field.   

[dudeski]

From this point forward, Richardson should have to earn his carries. The guy is a flat out drive-killer. The majority of his carries should go elsewhere. Give him a few carries here and there - if he proves himself, give him more. If not, so be it. #1 pick be damned.

If, beginning next season, you want to give him a fesh look(with more leeway) behind a new line, that's understandable. But currently, we're in a playoff push. Put the best players on the field.

to that point we need to get brown out of there in pass protection. The kid is horrible

[ponyboy]

to that point we need to get brown out of there in pass protection. The kid is horrible

 

FWIW, in "pass blocking efficiency" PFF has Brown graded better than Richardson with the Colts this year (92.7% vs. 92.6%) and Brown better then Richardson for all last year (91.5% vs. 89.5%).   I've seen Trent make some nice blocks for the Colts but saying Brown is horrible is a bit unfair.

[dudeski]

FWIW, in "pass blocking efficiency" PFF has Brown graded better than Richardson with the Colts this year (92.7% vs. 92.6%) and Brown better then Richardson for all last year (91.5% vs. 89.5%). I've seen Trent make some nice blocks for the Colts but saying Brown is horrible is a bit unfair.

no it isn't. He is horrible. What pff says is irrelevant.

[Gavin]

no it isn't. He is horrible. What pff says is irrelevant.

He is still better then Trent at this point

[Gabriel Alexander Morillo]

trich looked awful on 1 carry. Not all game. But that doesn't fit your agenda

 

I have no agenda, just stating facts.

no it isn't. He is horrible. What pff says is irrelevant.

This is an agenda however. Denying facts. 

[husker61]

FWIW, in "pass blocking efficiency" PFF has Brown graded better than Richardson with the Colts this year (92.7% vs. 92.6%) and Brown better then Richardson for all last year (91.5% vs. 89.5%).   I've seen Trent make some nice blocks for the Colts but saying Brown is horrible is a bit unfair.

 

in the past i have pointed out tr missing blocking assignments in colts games, but the tr defenders just ignore that and keep clinging to the "he's a better blocker" thing. very few rb's are going to be able to stop a dl or lb cold. all they are asked to do is delay them and the qb has to get rid of the ball.

[esmort]

He has shown signs. I think between our line, and play calling He has been behind the ball from the start. I defend him cause I take him for what it is. A good running back who may have been drafted to high. Not our fault but we have him now and we need to put him in the best position for us as a team to succeed.

 

Admittedly, I hated the Richardson trade from the very beginning and believe we got shafted .... But..

 

We are stuck with him (and without a 1st round pick) now so I would love it if he lived up to his 3rd overall billing.  But, I have not seen these signs you speak of.

 

Oline is bad, but I can't see that as an excuse when 3 other RBs have played behind same OL and all have performed better.  There are also RBs on other teams with OLs ranked as bad or worse than ours and with worse QBs who have also performed better.

 

As to play calling ... I am sure you could call some plays to throw him a screen pass or something to get him out in space ... but, a 1st round RB should be able to produce without special concessions being made for him.  And he has had enough different plays, at different times now that the excuse that he always gets the bad formations and/or stacked boxes no longer holds water.  Peps play calling is frequently bad across the board not just for Richardson.

 

I don't know what you mean by "being behind the ball from the start" ... If you mean he was expected to come in perform like a 1st round RB that is true, and a legitimate expectation.  If you mean he didn't have time to learn the playbook or needs more time to learn offense that excuse lost any legitimacy several weeks ago.  He has been with the Colts 10+ weeks now; which is equivalent to him coming to the start of training camp, playing all preseason games, and 3-4 regular season games ... this should be more than enough time for a non-rookie RB to be game ready and playing to his full ability.

 

Not our fault?  Him being drafted 3rd overall may not have been our fault, but we essentially drafted him in the first round when we made the trade... which is our fault.  He is not currently performing at a level I would say is that of a "good RB" (which is what you called him) and if his ceiling after this year is only that of a "good RB" and not an elite one than he is a waste and we got ripped off, because we could have gotten a "good RB" to help us next season and beyond for a lot less than a 1st round pick and less money.

 

So like I said I would love to see him dethrone AP as the #1 RB in the NFL and hear all the Browns fans crying about what they lost; and yes we are now stuck with him ... but as long as he is playing like garbage and under performing I don't see why anyone feels the need to defend him or make excuses for him.

[dudeski]

He is still better then Trent at this point

at pass blocking? I don't agree with that at all

[dudeski]

I have no agenda, just stating facts.

This is an agenda however. Denying facts.

pff stats are not facts

[NewEra]

Admittedly, I hated the Richardson trade from the very beginning and believe we got shafted .... But..

We are stuck with him (and without a 1st round pick) now so I would love it if he lived up to his 3rd overall billing. But, I have not seen these signs you speak of.

Oline is bad, but I can't see that as an excuse when 3 other RBs have played behind same OL and all have performed better. There are also RBs on other teams with OLs ranked as bad or worse than ours and with worse QBs who have also performed better.

As to play calling ... I am sure you could call some plays to throw him a screen pass or something to get him out in space ... but, a 1st round RB should be able to produce without special concessions being made for him. And he has had enough different plays, at different times now that the excuse that he always gets the bad formations and/or stacked boxes no longer holds water. Peps play calling is frequently bad across the board not just for Richardson.

I don't know what you mean by "being behind the ball from the start" ... If you mean he was expected to come in perform like a 1st round RB that is true, and a legitimate expectation. If you mean he didn't have time to learn the playbook or needs more time to learn offense that excuse lost any legitimacy several weeks ago. He has been with the Colts 10+ weeks now; which is equivalent to him coming to the start of training camp, playing all preseason games, and 3-4 regular season games ... this should be more than enough time for a non-rookie RB to be game ready and playing to his full ability.

Not our fault? Him being drafted 3rd overall may not have been our fault, but we essentially drafted him in the first round when we made the trade... which is our fault. He is not currently performing at a level I would say is that of a "good RB" (which is what you called him) and if his ceiling after this year is only that of a "good RB" and not an elite one than he is a waste and we got ripped off, because we could have gotten a "good RB" to help us next season and beyond for a lot less than a 1st round pick and less money.

So like I said I would love to see him dethrone AP as the #1 RB in the NFL and hear all the Browns fans crying about what they lost; and yes we are now stuck with him ... but as long as he is playing like garbage and under performing I don't see why anyone feels the need to defend him or make excuses for him.

I don't think he'll be dethroning AP any time soon or ever.

By playing from behind I mean new to the team and learning out playbook, our ways. Pretty much everything.

He does look slow and tentative at times. I think that may be him not being in tune and comfortable with the line, playbook and what's going on.

I can't say I like or dislike the trade but what's done is done. The constant bashing does not good and premature to throw him under the bus. I hope for all of our sakes he pans out. Or we just wasted a 1st round pick yet again.

I see the difference between Brown and Trent is Brown hits the holes with confidence and finds the creases and holes better. If you watch Brown he turns his body to squeeze through the hole. Even jumping over guys. He's been playing really well. I think Trent's confidence is struggling right now. He's to worried about just bulldozing people and pushing the pile.

[unitaswestand]

I see Shock Jockstrap Brad Wells has found a new whipping boy in Trent Richardson on his latest blog.  I don't really understand the double standard applied.  Everyone concedes that our O-Line is horrible.  There is rarely a hole and Luck is harassed on every play.  I don't see anyone suggesting that Luck is a bust after the Rams or Cardinal game when he had very weak stats.  No, it is blamed on him not getting any help by the OLine.  So why is Richardson blamed for no holes??  Oh, because Brown has gotten yards.  Well, in all fairness, Brown has gotten the ball in different sets.  Usually, for Richardson, it is either a power formation, one side overloaded, and he takes it to the A gap.  Or a wide pitch out with pulling guards.  Brown has gotten the ball more in single black, run/pass formations or on draw plays.  Yes, Brown is running better.  He hits the hole with much more authority where Richardson is dancing a bit too much.  But I think they said for three quarters yesterday Brown was averaging 1 yard a carry.  So you can't blame the running backs.

 

I just think it is unfair to call any of our running backs "bust" when nobody ever blocks for them.  Nobody could run behind that line.  I think if you threw Adrian Peterson back there, he is a 500 yard season rusher.  I think Brown has always been a good back. I think Richardson could be a good back.  But in the time both have been here, nobody ever opens up holes for them.  I've said this before but look at Andre Brown.  He was with us and he couldn't even make the team.  He goes to the Giants and out rushes Brown and Richardson.  So it is about having blocking.  I think if Grigson again brings in 2-3 more lineman, we never see Satele and McGlynn on the field again, Brown and Richardson will thrive.

[YOUR GM]

The "loaded box" argument went out the window many games ago. Brown was the workhorse yesterday and saw every look from various formations. The game winning drive, he produced out of primarily power sets, not spread. Trent is here to stay so we all hope he gets better, but anyone still making excuses for his poor play at this point loses a bit of credibility.

He hasn't produced under any circumstances, whereas the other backs who have started for us have in at least one game this season. That's not a coincidence, and it's not because of favoritism from Pep and the o-line, intentionally calling plays and throwing blocks to make one player look better than the other. Trent is broken right now... I hope we can fix him

[buccolts]

They will come.........

[BOTT]

I see Shock Jockstrap Brad Wells has found a new whipping boy in Trent Richardson on his latest blog.  I don't really understand the double standard applied.  Everyone concedes that our O-Line is horrible.  There is rarely a hole and Luck is harassed on every play.  I don't see anyone suggesting that Luck is a bust after the Rams or Cardinal game when he had very weak stats.  No, it is blamed on him not getting any help by the OLine.  So why is Richardson blamed for no holes??  Oh, because Brown has gotten yards.  Well, in all fairness, Brown has gotten the ball in different sets.  Usually, for Richardson, it is either a power formation, one side overloaded, and he takes it to the A gap.  Or a wide pitch out with pulling guards.  Brown has gotten the ball more in single black, run/pass formations or on draw plays.  Yes, Brown is running better.  He hits the hole with much more authority where Richardson is dancing a bit too much.  But I think they said for three quarters yesterday Brown was averaging 1 yard a carry.  So you can't blame the running backs.

 

I just think it is unfair to call any of our running backs "bust" when nobody ever blocks for them.  Nobody could run behind that line.  I think if you threw Adrian Peterson back there, he is a 500 yard season rusher.  I think Brown has always been a good back. I think Richardson could be a good back.  But in the time both have been here, nobody ever opens up holes for them.  I've said this before but look at Andre Brown.  He was with us and he couldn't even make the team.  He goes to the Giants and out rushes Brown and Richardson.  So it is about having blocking.  I think if Grigson again brings in 2-3 more lineman, we never see Satele and McGlynn on the field again, Brown and Richardson will thrive.

Because every other RB has succeeded behind that line....everyone but TRich averaged over 4 yards per carry. And the last 4 weeks or so Brown and Richardson have been getting the ball in similar sets.

[#12]

This is a poor pass blocking line, no doubt, but we're at the point where I think a strong case can be made that this is actually a good run blocking line, made to look bad by Richardson. 

 

Through 12 games:

 

Donald Brown - 5.3 avg.

Ahmad Bradshaw - 4.5 avg.

Vick Ballard - 4.8 avg.

Daniel Herron - 6.6 avg.

 

Trent Richardson - 2.8 avg.

 

I'll take it a step further and say that, in a few months, you will be able look back and trace many of the team's struggles to Richardson - to beating your head against the wall with Richardson.  Reliance on him is killing drives, consistently putting you in 2nd and long and 3rd and long... consistently putting you in a hole every week. 

[esmort]

I don't think he'll be dethroning AP any time soon or ever.

 

I don't either, I just said I would be happy if he did.

By playing from behind I mean new to the team and learning out playbook, our ways. Pretty much everything.

 

As I pointed out ... he has effectively been here long enough that it is the same as if he had been here for training camp, preseason, and 1/4 of the regular season.  So at this point how is he much different from any other free agent brought in this season?  Even if you want to say he has had less time, so time wise he is in essence only  playing his 4th or 5th regular season game that's still not an excuse ... look at Bradshaw's numbers from his first 3 games ... and he was a free agent who was new to the team, new to the playbook, and new to our ways as well.

He does look slow and tentative at times. I think that may be him not being in tune and comfortable with the line, playbook and what's going on.

 

See above ... how is that different from any other free agent.  Should the same excuses be made for DHB?

I can't say I like or dislike the trade but what's done is done. The constant bashing does not good and premature to throw him under the bus. I hope for all of our sakes he pans out. Or we just wasted a 1st round pick yet again.

 

Plenty of players are constantly bashed for under-performing. I don't know for sure but I would guess you have probably bashed a player or two as well (Satele, McGlynn, DHB, etc ... someone?).  The bashing may not do any good to make him better, but it allows people to vent their frustrations which is understandable because every week the frustration mounts.  I think most people hope he pans out but as it stands, it looks more and more like we tossed our 1st round pick away.  How can you have no opinion on the trade ... surely you have an opinion on whether you think we spent our first round pick wisely?

 

I see the difference between Brown and Trent is Brown hits the holes with confidence and finds the creases and holes better. If you watch Brown he turns his body to squeeze through the hole. Even jumping over guys. He's been playing really well. I think Trent's confidence is struggling right now. He's to worried about just bulldozing people and pushing the pile.

 

"Confidence struggling" is a pass on a couple game slump not an entire season. He's a professional and a 1st round pick that means pulling yourself together, getting over it, and performing at a high level ... it's not like we are talking some small school, undrafted rookie here.  If "confidence is struggling" is an excuse than maybe DHB needs a pass too ... he takes a lot more heat than Richardson, cost us less, and contributed significantly more ... but I don't see people coming out in masses rushing to his defense, making excuses for him, or are willing to give him a pass on this season and "wait until next year to judge him".

 

See response in bold.

[NewEra]

See response in bold.

I don't disagree that he is struggling. Just think it's early to call him a bust. Heck I've seen guys on here calling Werner a bust already so it's not anything new.

[YOUR GM]

This is a poor pass blocking line, no doubt, but we're at the point where I think a strong case can be made that this is actually a good run blocking line, made to look bad by Richardson.

Through 12 games:

Donald Brown - 5.3 avg.

Ahmad Bradshaw - 4.5 avg.

Vick Ballard - 4.8 avg.

Daniel Herron - 6.6 avg.

Trent Richardson - 2.8 avg.

I'll take it a step further and say that, in a few months, you will be able look back and trace many of the team's struggles to Richardson - to beating your head against the wall with Richardson. Reliance on him is killing drives, consistently putting you in 2nd and long and 3rd and long... consistently putting you in a hole every week.

So true. We basically traded a 1st and probably a couple more wins (simultaneously hurting us this year and beyond) for a less than average running back at this point. Frustrating to think about. Ugh

[Gavin]

at pass blocking? I don't agree with that at all

Physically Trent should be better...He is the bigger stronger Back, But its clear he dont have the blocking schemes down, Donald does, I dont have any raw numbers of how many either player missed but when I see film Richardson looks to miss more blocks, Browns problem is the opposite, He is a smaller more wirey Back who just dont have the girth to hold up against D Linemen or Linebackers coming at him but he seems to block better then Richardson right now, Ill go back over games again, I could be wrong of course

[ColtJ82]

Trent is a different running back than he was last year. He seemed to be much quicker and more agile than he is this year. Granted, Cleveland's offensive line was light years better than ours is now. I really want to see what changes Trent makes in the offseason and how a training camp with the horseshoe on his helmet helps him. 

 

I still believe he is fighting a mental battle that is really hampering his play. When confidence is lacking, it is hard to excel.

[GoGoColts]

I was under the impression that he was a phenom. 

 

 

 

[MaoBerry]

Did you happen to see his 2.5 YARDS PER CARRY AVERAGE? I've never seen any full-time back EVER average this type of garbage production. It must be a record.

[Everyone]

because he sux

[CVDGxRAZE]

because they knew brown played better against the titans 2 weeks ago and wanted to do the same thing with brown running against the titans yesterday

[achcolts]

hes bad. not saying hell be bad forever. what sucks is i see trent being a reggie bush, finally developing when hes not in our hands anymore. vision is tough to pic up on, but im giving him the benefit of the doubt for this yr just because he was rushed and the crazy amount of pressure hes had. people forget alot of football is a mental game, and if ur not right in that part, it could totally mess you up... peopel at work knock me about jim/grigs/colts being *s with the trade but tbh im not gonna judge it until next season, and he better come out week 1 impressive because thats plenty of time to get really really comfortable.

[bestQBever]

I was under the impression that he was a phenom. 

We'll then you clearly haven't been reading the forums lately. 

[Gabriel Alexander Morillo]

It's a trap. 

[GoGoColts]

Did you happen to see his 2.5 YARDS PER CARRY AVERAGE? I've never seen any full-time back EVER average this type of garbage production. It must be a record.

I saw.  I have been against him since college.  I don't trust any player who is his lifting the kind of weight that he did in college.  I knew that he would bust.  I was annoyed that the colts traded for him.