What Is It With People Thinking T.Y. Will Be The #2?

[Kyle]

DHB is being undervalued by most people around here.  

[ColtsBlueFL]

DHB and Reggie both have what it takes to play X. DHB strength and speed, Reggie leverage in a rip move to get off press coverage and into his precise  routes.  This guy is lined up on the line and cannot go into motion. Reggie also has all of the skills of a top flight slot receiver that would make D coordinators consider placing their #1 CB on the slot guy.  So I can see Reggie play the Y frequently too.  I think I see a battle between Hilton and Brazil at flanker.  Playing off the line of scrimmage, they have flexibility; from fly routes to bubble screens, crossing patterns and going into motion packages and blocking down on LB's, etc.  I like our receiver core and what they bring to the table.  With Fleener and Allen mixed in there, the packages and formations could be formidable to opposing D's.

 

I really don't care what people label them, in either letters or numbers.  I just want to see how Pep uses their talents with effective formations that can exploit D's based upon down and distance.  Create favorable matchups for the receivers and multiple open targets for Luck.  Gulping up somewhat less chunk yardage than last year, we're going to need all of it and move those chains effectively.  Can't wait to see what Pep pulls out as a 'No Coast' offense.  

[fvantagio]

Depends really..If there are 3 receivers on the field I expect to see DHB on the outside and TY or reggie in the slot, with the other at wr. Who knows, might even see TY and Fleener in the slots and Reggie and DHB out wide, with Allen at TE if we want to spread them out. So its true that TY will line up in the slot more then DHB, but that doesnt necessarily make him the 3rd receiver.

 

We got a plethora of weapons at Lucks disposable. 3 of which, I expect will be moved around the field to create mismatches..Those being Reggie, Fleener and TY. No point arguing whose the 1st, 2nd and 3rd guy.

 

However that being said..In 2 wr sets, I expect to see Reggie and TY more often then Reggie and DHB. So in that sense, TY IS the number 2 guy.

[fvantagio]

DHB is being undervalued by most people around here.  

 

 

No. Hes being overvalued by some...Dont get me wrong, id love for him to explode onto the scene like Demarius Thomas. Unfortunately..there was a reason he was signed later in FA to a 1 year contract. All im saying is dont get your hopes up.

[NewColtsFan]

Hilton will replace Collie and Avery as the slot WR this season I think he will have about 70-75 REC for about 950-1155  yards and 10 TD catches.

 

Is it possible that TYH could put up those numbers?    Sure.     But is it likely?    I don't think so.    Here's why.

 

Since the goal is to have a much higher completion percentage this year,  I expect Luck to have roughly the same number of completions,  but in fewer pass attempts.   And, then we'll run a few more times per game.

 

Last year's WR's...  Wayne 106 catches,  Avery 60 catches, and Hilton 50 catches.    The TE's much fewer and the same for the RB's.     I suspect this year DBH and TY to have roughly the same number of total coaches as TY and Avery did last year, which was 110.    So,  roughly 50-55 each.    

 

I'd expect Wayne to have 20-25 less catches.   Not because of his age,  or because he can't cut it anymore,  but because the offense will work better (more efficiently)  if we have more weapons.   More players for the defense to worry about.   So, take 20-25 catches from Wayne and give them to Fleener, and Allen,   and the RB's, including Havili....

 

Now defenses have all sorts of concerns.   Luck could pass to almost anyone on the field, and my bet is -- he will..!!

 

This is what I'm expecting.   I still think Wayne gets 80-85 catches and 1,000+ yards.   But I think the goal is to spread the ball around and make the overall offense more dangerous.

 

That's much hunch......     Not easy predicting 'less for Reggie' especially since Luck LOVES throwing to him.   Not easy for a young quarterback to throw less to his favorite target,  but that's my guess....

[TKnight24]

If we come out in 2 WR sets then TY will be the #2 wr. In a 3 WR set Wayne will most likely play in the slot and TY and DHB will play on the outside because of their speed.

Two WR sets DHB is number 2 WR. It's already been confirmed by Pagano

[crazycolt1]

It makes no difference as to who is listed as the #2 or #3 WR is. It's all in the coverage and what the offensive play caller is calling. I think Luck will look for the open WR with no certain order. In the past we never knew who was going to be the #1,#2 or the #3 receiver was going to be. If Wayne is doubled it would fall into who was open. There might be games where one of the TEs might have the numbers for that game. I think it makes no difference to argue at this stage before camp and pre-season is even started. Most of the time it is the coverage that dictates who the ball will thrown to. Debating a technicality at this point serves no purpose. 

[Gavin]

No. Hes being overvalued by some...Dont get me wrong, id love for him to explode onto the scene like Demarius Thomas. Unfortunately..there was a reason he was signed later in FA to a 1 year contract. All im saying is dont get your hopes up.

I think your not taking into account who the QB for Denver is and who the QB for Oakland was last year, Carson is decent but nothing all that good, I dont even think he is as good as Rich Gannon was when he was with Oak , DHB had 975 yards  receiving with no vets for him to learn from

[Smonroe]

I think your not taking into account who the QB for Denver is and who the QB for Oakland was last year, Carson is decent but nothing all that good, I dont even think he is as good as Rich Gannon was when he was with Oak , DHB had 975 yards  receiving with no vets for him to learn from

Exactly, not to mention how dysfunctional that organization was/is. From what I've seen and read it appears he's a bright guy who knows he has work to do and is willing to put it in to get better.

Pure speculation on my part but I think the one year contract can eventually turn into a multi year (this season) if the FO sees him as Reggie's successor.

[Kyle]

No. Hes being overvalued by some...Dont get me wrong, id love for him to explode onto the scene like Demarius Thomas. Unfortunately..there was a reason he was signed later in FA to a 1 year contract. All im saying is dont get your hopes up.

My hopes are up, and they will be fulfilled. 

[Gavin]

Exactly, not to mention how dysfunctional that organization was/is. From what I've seen and read it appears he's a bright guy who knows he has work to do and is willing to put it in to get better.

Pure speculation on my part but I think the one year contract can eventually turn into a multi year (this season) if the FO sees him as Reggie's successor.

I haven't watched him near enough to say he can be Waynes successor but I think he can top 1000 yards easy and has the potential to be a double digit td receiver (He had 5 last year)......But at the same time there is a reason he is here on a 1 year deal currently

[HarassedOffTheSite]

DHB is being undervalued by most people around here.  

 

Hahaha amen. The exact same crowd that was saying Avery would not be the two last year. Whatever... ;)

[mvbighead]

Why draft K.Williams then?  It's obvious he is being brought in to return kicks/punts which would dislodge Hilton from that duty. If Hilton is not our #2 and sees significantly less balls his way, then we are wasting one of our best playmakers.

 

Is this really a question?

 

It's almost a certainty that TY's role will expand here at WR.  Whether he is on the field on 2 WR sets, or 3, his role as a receiver grew throughout his rookie year.

 

Wayne is the real certainty here, but DHB and TY will probably each get time in 2 WR sets.  Both players are explosive, and will remain explosive longer if they get a snap off here and there.  Wayne is our primary target, and isn't (nor has he ever really been) a true deep threat.  He is savy, finds holes in zones, and makes every catch look routine.

 

One question, in my mind, is how much we'll see 2 WR sets.  It has been rumored that Pep will use 2 TEs somewhat frequently.  Getting Allen and Fleener on the field is certainly not a bad thing.  But leaving TY or DHB on the sidelines too frequently well take away from of our big play opportunities.  

 

I dunno, I think it all remains to be seen until the season starts.  I think DHB could be Wayne's replacement as the #1 if he works for it.  He has the speed of a true #1, he makes plays after the catch, he just needs to make EVERY catch.  His highlights show some awesome catches, but I recall him to be a bit of a dropster at times.  That could just be Raider QBs... I dunno.

 

In any case, Hilton will see more time than he did last year.  How much depends on who wins out.  It sure as crap won't be because TY is 5-9 183 and DHB is 6-2 215, which I think is something many on here are getting at.

[GoColts8818]

I think people just need to understand that just because he's not the second WR doesn't mean he's not the second best WR on the team. Being in the slot just plays to his strengths which is why they like him there.

[Gavin]

Is this really a question?

 

It's almost a certainty that TY's role will expand here at WR.  Whether he is on the field on 2 WR sets, or 3, his role as a receiver grew throughout his rookie year.

 

Wayne is the real certainty here, but DHB and TY will probably each get time in 2 WR sets.  Both players are explosive, and will remain explosive longer if they get a snap off here and there.  Wayne is our primary target, and isn't (nor has he ever really been) a true deep threat.  He is savy, finds holes in zones, and makes every catch look routine.

 

One question, in my mind, is how much we'll see 2 WR sets.  It has been rumored that Pep will use 2 TEs somewhat frequently.  Getting Allen and Fleener on the field is certainly not a bad thing.  But leaving TY or DHB on the sidelines too frequently well take away from of our big play opportunities.  

 

I dunno, I think it all remains to be seen until the season starts.  I think DHB could be Wayne's replacement as the #1 if he works for it.  He has the speed of a true #1, he makes plays after the catch, he just needs to make EVERY catch.  His highlights show some awesome catches, but I recall him to be a bit of a dropster at times.  That could just be Raider QBs... I dunno.

 

In any case, Hilton will see more time than he did last year.  How much depends on who wins out.  It sure as crap won't be because TY is 5-9 183 and DHB is 6-2 215, which I think is something many on here are getting at.

No #1 wr makes every catch

[HarassedOffTheSite]

For what it's worth, George Bremer said in Reggie's absence (today) T.Y. is working the outside! ;) 

[Virtuoso80]

Is it possible that TYH could put up those numbers?    Sure.     But is it likely?    I don't think so.    Here's why.

 

Since the goal is to have a much higher completion percentage this year,  I expect Luck to have roughly the same number of completions,  but in fewer pass attempts.   And, then we'll run a few more times per game.

 

Last year's WR's...  Wayne 106 catches,  Avery 60 catches, and Hilton 50 catches.    The TE's much fewer and the same for the RB's.     I suspect this year DBH and TY to have roughly the same number of total coaches as TY and Avery did last year, which was 110.    So,  roughly 50-55 each.    

 

I'd expect Wayne to have 20-25 less catches.   Not because of his age,  or because he can't cut it anymore,  but because the offense will work better (more efficiently)  if we have more weapons.   More players for the defense to worry about.   So, take 20-25 catches from Wayne and give them to Fleener, and Allen,   and the RB's, including Havili....

 

Now defenses have all sorts of concerns.   Luck could pass to almost anyone on the field, and my bet is -- he will..!!

 

This is what I'm expecting.   I still think Wayne gets 80-85 catches and 1,000+ yards.   But I think the goal is to spread the ball around and make the overall offense more dangerous.

 

That's much hunch......     Not easy predicting 'less for Reggie' especially since Luck LOVES throwing to him.   Not easy for a young quarterback to throw less to his favorite target,  but that's my guess....

 that's alot of coaches, lol.  i know, i know...just caught my eye there lol 

[mvbighead]

No #1 wr makes every catch

 

Eh, don't be so danged literal.

 

What I meant was he needs to make every catch he is supposed to make.  He should only miss iffy passes once in a while.  When you drop passes that are in your numbers, you are costing the teams downs and possession.  The good once make more of their catches.

[Stephen]

I think people just need to understand that just because he's not the second WR doesn't mean he's not the second best WR on the team. Being in the slot just plays to his strengths which is why they like him there.

true Hilton is second best receiver until bey proves other wise

[Stephen]

^{though technically Hilton was best receiver last year at scoring tds}

[Valpo2004]

Guys, I see DHB on this team in 5 years just as much as Hilton. He (Hilton) is a little burner that fit Arians' mold. Not holding that against him but I did not see anything out of him last year that demands he be a Colt for life. He's a slot receiver. That's it. And if we're ever in a position where he is our 2....then IMO we made some personnel mistakes somewhere along the line. Just where I'm at right now. Hope he changes my mind.

 

Ehh we need someone who is a burner on the field.  I really think someone who takes the top off a defense opens up a lot of options you might not have.  

 

At the very least it draws the safeties to cover the deep man leaving guys on the underneath routes with 1 on 1 coverage.  

[Stephen]

Luck should get over 30tds this year if dhb performs well and hilton continues to produce

[james_zeigler1994]

I don't agree with Wayne losing numbers now because of the new offense he might lose some but not 20-25 catches that's kind of crap I think he will have another good year to maybe 95 catches for about 1100 yards and 10TD's so he will drop a little bit but not a whole lot so he will lose about 11 rec from his stats from 2012 season.

[Carl Dzienkiewicz]

i hope brazil gets more throws---=i think hes tough and has great hands

[Carlos Danger]

I think that DHB will see more snaps than T.Y., but not necessarily more targets... DHB is bigger and should provide better blocking on run downs... Wayne is an underrated blocker and if DHB can be better at this aspect than Avery was last season, then it should translate to a lot of playing time and some big plays on PA... I hope that he can continue to improve his drop rate. If he does, he certainly has a  good shot to get to 1000 yds receiving

T.Y. was great at getting open and making the catch in the EZ last season, which seems strange, but only illustrates that body types do not determine everything in this league...  I expect Hilton to get a bunch of targets from the slot and some reverses to go along with his punt returns. If Hilton can develop his timing with #12 (he has had a season to get some of this down), the 3 and 5 step drops can play to his advantage if he can get the ball in space... I am not as confident that T.Y. will get his 1000 yds. receiving, but I think that he will easily top 1000 all purpose yds...

 

If Pep really does tailor the Offense to the strengths of the personnel, the numbers for Luck could be truly eye-popping and the passing offense can be top 5, IMO, the Offense can be top 10 without too much trouble if the run game improves as much as I expect it to.. The distinction between #2 and #3 receivers shouldn't really make a difference if we have a balanced enough attack to be creative with the formations, but I do hesitantly agree with the OP that DHB will probably be the #2 receiver in the sense that he will play on the outside, be in on more snaps, and will probably see more targets... nothing is set in stone until th season starts, but that's the most likely scenario, IMO...

[Superman]

The "slot" is traditionally the 3rd receiver. I know some folks try to muddy the water and pretend those designations don't mean anything anymore but that is silly nonsense. If DHB was brought in to be a big, outside, deep threat then he is the 2.

 

I liked T.Y. in the slot last season, he did well. Just not understanding how anyone could possibly see him as our 2 this year. ;)

 

Sometimes your slot guy is your #2, though, not #3. He doesn't go off the field for two receiver sets, but he slides inside in three receiver sets. He's your slot guy, but he's your second option. Danny Amendola was the Rams primary slot guy, but he stayed on the field in two receiver sets. 

 

I'm assuming Hilton will be the primary slot guy, for sure. But I remember reading somewhere earlier this offseason -- not sure if it was a team source or a media assumption -- that DHB and Hilton would share reps in two receiver sets. So sometimes it's DHB and sometimes it's Hilton. If that winds up happening, I'd tag Hilton with the #2 designation because he'd get more total reps than DHB. And that's what I think matters more -- how many reps the receivers get, not where they line up. The guy with more total reps is further up the totem pole. Positionally, we can number them however we want. 

 

If we play a lot of "11" personnel, it might not matter. They might get the same number of reps, in which case I would default DHB to #2 because of where he'd be lining up.

[AntonMcG]

Sometimes your slot guy is your #2, though, not #3. He doesn't go off the field for two receiver sets, but he slides inside in three receiver sets. He's your slot guy, but he's your second option. Danny Amendola was the Rams primary slot guy, but he stayed on the field in two receiver sets. 

 

I'm assuming Hilton will be the primary slot guy, for sure. But I remember reading somewhere earlier this offseason -- not sure if it was a team source or a media assumption -- that DHB and Hilton would share reps in two receiver sets. So sometimes it's DHB and sometimes it's Hilton. If that winds up happening, I'd tag Hilton with the #2 designation because he'd get more total reps than DHB. And that's what I think matters more -- how many reps the receivers get, not where they line up. The guy with more total reps is further up the totem pole. Positionally, we can number them however we want. 

 

If we play a lot of "11" personnel, it might not matter. They might get the same number of reps, in which case I would default DHB to #2 because of where he'd be lining up.

 

You stole my reply

[basketballsteve]

Depends on what you mean by #2.  Reggie is the #1 meaning he is the best receiver we have on the team. T Y is the #2 meaning he is the second best receiver on the Colts over DHB, the TE's and the RB's and he will be the second best receiver by a wide margin over all those others.

[ColtsBlueFL]

 

If we play a lot of "11" personnel, it might not matter. They might get the same number of reps, in which case I would default DHB to #2 because of where he'd be lining up.

 

I wonder how often we run "11', or even if we roll out a a "22" ?  How our run game pans out in the early stages will determine a lot of things during the mid/late part of the year.

[mvbighead]

i hope brazil gets more throws---=i think hes tough and has great hands

 

I also agree here.  I think Brazil could be something, similar to what we had with Garcon.  Small school kid but seems to perform well.  I think Garcon is probably faster, but I think Brazil seems to have better hands.  I would not at all mind seeing more of this guy.

 

Honestly, if our future held DHB, Hilton, and Brazil, it might not be that bad.  I still think we could upgrade, but I like what I've seen from Brazil so far, even though he hasn't had a whole lotta opportunities.

[LockeDown]

Is this really a question?

 

It's almost a certainty that TY's role will expand here at WR.  Whether he is on the field on 2 WR sets, or 3, his role as a receiver grew throughout his rookie year.

 

Wayne is the real certainty here, but DHB and TY will probably each get time in 2 WR sets.  Both players are explosive, and will remain explosive longer if they get a snap off here and there.  Wayne is our primary target, and isn't (nor has he ever really been) a true deep threat.  He is savy, finds holes in zones, and makes every catch look routine.

 

One question, in my mind, is how much we'll see 2 WR sets.  It has been rumored that Pep will use 2 TEs somewhat frequently.  Getting Allen and Fleener on the field is certainly not a bad thing.  But leaving TY or DHB on the sidelines too frequently well take away from of our big play opportunities.  

 

I dunno, I think it all remains to be seen until the season starts.  I think DHB could be Wayne's replacement as the #1 if he works for it.  He has the speed of a true #1, he makes plays after the catch, he just needs to make EVERY catch.  His highlights show some awesome catches, but I recall him to be a bit of a dropster at times.  That could just be Raider QBs... I dunno.

 

In any case, Hilton will see more time than he did last year.  How much depends on who wins out.  It sure as crap won't be because TY is 5-9 183 and DHB is 6-2 215, which I think is something many on here are getting at.

 

Is yours really a question?  Btw, you never need ask that again.  You see, a "?" at the end of a sentence denotes a question.  That way you don't have to ask again.

 

You misunderstood the tone of my writing.  I am taking up for Hilton.  On this thread, I have read that he is expendable.  He is not a #2 WR.  He is a slot only but look out because Whalen will take his place.  Immediately after we drafted KW, everyone was excited about our new return guy.  Well last year's return guy took one to the endzone.  This is the guy that Arians said could be a number 1 WR and he is straight a shooter as we have seen (see the Big Ben should be ranked over Luck thread).   

[MR. Blueblood]

The "slot" is traditionally the 3rd receiver. I know some folks try to muddy the water and pretend those designations don't mean anything anymore but that is silly nonsense. If DHB was brought in to be a big, outside, deep threat then he is the 2.

 

I liked T.Y. in the slot last season, he did well. Just not understanding how anyone could possibly see him as our 2 this year. ;)

Is there any question that Welker in the slot was NE's #1 receiver?  That #3 guy was the go to guy more often than he wasn't.  I think assigning numbers to positions is silly.  I don't care who you want to label #1, 2, 3, or so on for the Colts, as long as when the ball is thrown their way the catch it.

[GoColts8818]

All three are going to be on the field and get PLUNTY of chances to make plays.  Who is labeled what doesn't really matter.

 

As I said before the Colts like Hilton in the slot because it fits his skill set the best and gives him the best chance to excel.  

[RGknee]

I love how ppl keep questioning DHB's potential, if you watch any game film on him when Palmer was tossing him the ball the kid has major talent and a very high potential in INDY. Luck is very accurate and can litterally thread the ball into the most narrow windows, something DHB has never had. Im calling it 1300+ and 12 tds at least this year, and hopefull a new and longer contract with us!

[Dustin]

I love how ppl keep questioning DHB's potential, if you watch any game film on him when Gannon was tossing him the ball the kid has major talent and a very high potential in INDY. Luck is very accurate and can litterally thread the ball into the most narrow windows, something DHB has never had. Im calling it 1300+ and 12 tds at least this year, and hopefull a new and longer contract with us!

Gannon?

[Superman]

I wonder how often we run "11', or even if we roll out a a "22" ?  How our run game pans out in the early stages will determine a lot of things during the mid/late part of the year.

 

"22" would be a good way to get Reggie a breather, and I would assume that DHB would be the guy on the field in that kind of package, simply because it's run heavy personnel and he's a better blocker than TY or anyone else.

 

I hope we run plenty of "11".

[RGknee]

Gannon?

PALMER* sorry on the tail end of a 16 hour shift

[Qwiz]

I love how ppl keep questioning DHB's potential, if you watch any game film on him when Gannon was tossing him the ball the kid has major talent and a very high potential in INDY. Luck is very accurate and can litterally thread the ball into the most narrow windows, something DHB has never had. Im calling it 1300+ and 12 tds at least this year, and hopefull a new and longer contract with us!

So you're saying that a guy who has never had a single 1,000 yard season is going to suddenly blow the league up and put up an elite 1300?  Sounds legit.

[Dustin]

So you're saying that a guy who has never had a single 1,000 yard season is going to suddenly blow the league up and put up an elite 1300? Sounds legit.

Demaryius Thomas, Dez Bryant.

[Superman]

So you're saying that a guy who has never had a single 1,000 yard season is going to suddenly blow the league up and put up an elite 1300?  Sounds legit.

 

I'm not endorsing that projection, but DHB had 975 in 15 games two years ago, with very inefficient quarterbacking.  Also, he's still young. Him having a breakout year wouldn't exactly be unprecedented.

 

Personally, my expectations for him are very tempered. I'm glad we have him, and I'm hopeful that he'll produce for us, but I'm not pinning the hopes of our offense to his back.