What Is It With People Thinking T.Y. Will Be The #2?

[Qwiz]

Demaryius Thomas, Dez Bryant.

Thomas went from Orton and Tebow to one of the greatest QBs to play the game lol. He also had a good running game and solid offensive line to help with those numbers. Same with Dez, but everyone knew the potential was there for him from college anyway, and he put up 928 his second year.

[RGknee]

So you're saying that a guy who has never had a single 1,000 yard season is going to suddenly blow the league up and put up an elite 1300?  Sounds legit.

thomas before manning.... 238yd 2 td (2010) 551 4 td (2011) thomas with manning..... 1434 10 td(2012)

[Qwiz]

I'm not endorsing that projection, but DHB had 975 in 15 games two years ago, with very inefficient quarterbacking.  Also, he's still young. Him having a breakout year wouldn't exactly be unprecedented.

 

Personally, my expectations for him are very tempered. I'm glad we have him, and I'm hopeful that he'll produce for us, but I'm not pinning the hopes of our offense to his back.

Yep, true. I was just thinking that even Hilton didn't break 1,000 and if I'm not mistaken Wayne is the only receiver who did this year for you guys in an offense where 12 was putting the ball up 30 times a game. But who knows, potential is everything.

[Qwiz]

thomas before manning.... 238yd 2 td (2010) 551 4 td (2011) thomas with manning..... 1434 10 td(2012)

There is a world's difference between Orton, Tebow, and Manning. But it can be done, I suppose. I guess it depends on how much emphasis is really going to be put on the run game and how much this offense of Hamilton's utilizes the TEs rather than receivers.

[Bleedin Blue]

I always thought being a number one receiver meant drawing the defenses best corner and the number two was the second best.

[Gavin]

Yep, true. I was just thinking that even Hilton didn't break 1,000 and if I'm not mistaken Wayne is the only receiver who did this year for you guys in an offense where 12 was putting the ball up 30 times a game. But who knows, potential is everything.

39.1 times per game if were being exact   ;) 

[ColtsBlueFL]

"22" would be a good way to get Reggie a breather, and I would assume that DHB would be the guy on the field in that kind of package, simply because it's run heavy personnel and he's a better blocker than TY or anyone else.

 

I hope we run plenty of "11".

 

That was my thinking too.  DHB the lone wideout.  Different skill set is needed in that scenario and DHB seems to have it; especially if Wayne is catching a breather.  Unless we are just blasting people off the line, I'd rather see more "11" than two tight end-run heavy packages myself.

[NewColtsFan]

Personally,   I don't think it matters much who is 2 and who is 3.....

 

I think both will have somewhat similar numbers....   50-60 catches...   13.5 to 14.5 yards per catch...   6-8 TD's a piece...  something close to that....

 

They'll both get roughly similar time, unless one expectedly breaks out this year,  which I don't see coming yet....

 

And I see all this as an advantage to the offense....

[AntonMcG]

Personally,   I don't think it matters much who is 2 and who is 3.....

 

I think both will have somewhat similar numbers....   50-60 catches...   13.5 to 14.5 yards per catch...   6-8 TD's a piece...  something close to that....

 

They'll both get roughly similar time, unless one expectedly breaks out this year,  which I don't see coming yet....

 

And I see all this as an advantage to the offense....

 

It does matter from the perspective of what a poster above said. There can often be a big drop off in ability between a teams 2nd and nickel corner. Also, a nickelback rarely plays press and is often found in zone coverage. So whilst it doesn't matter what number you put on them, it does matter where they line up from a skillset perspective, and who covers them.

[NewColtsFan]

It does matter from the perspective of what a poster above said. There can often be a big drop off in ability between a teams 2nd and nickel corner. Also, a nickelback rarely plays press and is often found in zone coverage. So whilst it doesn't matter what number you put on them, it does matter where they line up from a skillset perspective, and who covers them.

 

I understand.....

 

I was only approaching this from a fan's perspective....    I don't know who will be #2, and at this point,  it's not that important on my radar...   others are free to disagree...   but the team will work it out...   or, they'll rotate to get the most favorable match-up.

 

I just think there are other things much higher on my curiosity-meter than this...

 

I appreciate others here will disagree and that's fine...  I'm speaking only for me...

 

p.s. -- put a gun to my head and force me to choose and I'd say I'd prefer DHB....   taller, bigger, faster and more experienced.     But TYH as a #3 is terrific as well.

 

p.s.s. -- you're posting way too late,  you need to get some sleep!!   But for that matter,  so do I..!!

[AntonMcG]

I understand.....

 

I was only approaching this from a fan's perspective....    I don't know who will be #2, and at this point,  it's not that important on my radar...   others are free to disagree...   but the team will work it out...   or, they'll rotate to get the most favorable match-up.

 

I just think there are other things much higher on my curiosity-meter than this...

 

I appreciate others here will disagree and that's fine...  I'm speaking only for me...

 

p.s. -- put a gun to my head and force me to choose and I'd say I'd prefer DHB....   taller, bigger, faster and more experienced.     But TYH as a #3 is terrific as well.

 

p.s.s. -- you're posting way too late,  you need to get some sleep!!   But for that matter,  so do I..!!

 

lol, Not up late... just up early.

[mvbighead]

Is yours really a question?  Btw, you never need ask that again.  You see, a "?" at the end of a sentence denotes a question.  That way you don't have to ask again.

 

You misunderstood the tone of my writing.  I am taking up for Hilton.  On this thread, I have read that he is expendable.  He is not a #2 WR.  He is a slot only but look out because Whalen will take his place.  Immediately after we drafted KW, everyone was excited about our new return guy.  Well last year's return guy took one to the endzone.  This is the guy that Arians said could be a number 1 WR and he is straight a shooter as we have seen (see the Big Ben should be ranked over Luck thread).   

 

I don't even know what you said here.  "I am taking up for Hilton" <- Taking up donations?  Talking him up?

 

Then you go on to say he is not our #2, but a slot only.  I'll bypass the return man stuff.  And then you say Arians calls him a #1? You're all over the place.

 

The new return guy is likely being brought in to save some mileage on Hilton.  Perhaps we give Hilton a couple reps a game at PR, and use the new (more expendable) guy for everything else.  Long story short, Hilton's best place on this team is at WR.

 

In any case, I don't know where you're going.  All I can say is Hilton was coming along nicely as a WR last season.  While he is a few inches shorter than 88, many see him as being a similar style of receiver.  He is by no means 88, but many analyst felt 88 needed more size (bulk, muscle, etc) than he had.  Problem is, 88's 6-0 180 lb frame gave him the ability to cut, juke, etc. effortlessly.  An extra 20 lbs really can make a different on how sharp your cuts are.

 

Long story short, Hilton is a receiver.  Whether he gets more or less reps at #2 remains to be seen, but DHB isn't going to come strolling in on red carpet into that #2 spot.  I know many here are excited about the size and speed that DHB brings to the table, but if his skills as a receiver are worse than that of Hilton, he won't be getting more reps.  Ball skills, route running, making secure catches, etc, are all things WRs need to have to complete the package.  Running a 4.3 40?  It certainly is a nice addition to the complete package, but many receivers have gotten by with much, much less.  The great Jerry Rice ran a 4.7, so what does that tell you?

[Superman]

Yep, true. I was just thinking that even Hilton didn't break 1,000 and if I'm not mistaken Wayne is the only receiver who did this year for you guys in an offense where 12 was putting the ball up 30 times a game. But who knows, potential is everything.

 

He had a sub standard completion percentage and threw 18 interceptions. Assuming he's more efficient and throws fewer picks, there ought to be strong production out of at least two or three receivers.

 

I don't know whether DHB will break 1,000; I think 1,300 is rather unlikely. But I don't think that has very much to do with his past performance.

[Mouthfire]

Is there any question that Welker in the slot was NE's #1 receiver?  That #3 guy was the go to guy more often than he wasn't.  I think assigning numbers to positions is silly.  I don't care who you want to label #1, 2, 3, or so on for the Colts, as long as when the ball is thrown their way the catch it.

 

We really should define what we're talking about in this thread.  There are two ways of defining the #1, 2, and 3 receivers, and people seem to be mixing them up.

 

1) In one definition, #1 and #2 are the wideouts, and #3 is the slot receiver.

2) In another definition, #1 is the primary target, #2 is the secondary target, and #3 is the tertiary target.

 

These two definitions don't necessarily go hand in hand.  In the traditional NFL offense, it usually does, but it doesn't necessarily have to.  Wes Welker, for instance, was the "#3" slot receiver, but clearly the "#1" primary WR target for the Patriots when he was playing for them.

 

Personally, I think Hilton ends up being the primary slot receiver ("#3" in this sense) with some time spent in the 2nd wideout spot, but ends up being the "#2" secondary WR target by virtue of being targeted more than DHB by a hair.

[fvantagio]

I think your not taking into account who the QB for Denver is and who the QB for Oakland was last year, Carson is decent but nothing all that good, I dont even think he is as good as Rich Gannon was when he was with Oak , DHB had 975 yards  receiving with no vets for him to learn from

 

 

Im not saying I dont see potential. Im well aware of the situation he was drafted into. Its very possible that he thrives in this system, but its just as possible he doesnt. All im saying is that just because the guy is 6'2 and runs a 4.3 doesnt mean hes destined for greatness.

[MAYHEM]

TY is awesome, but is built like a slot receiver.  I consider him #3, but may very well be the top 2 in receptions this year.  

 

His size and strength are a liability on running downs, so he may not get many looks in 2wr sets this year if our running game gets going,  The team does want him to concentrate on building strength this year, though.  

[Stephen]

Ty is a scorer and the number one td producer in our receiving corp being that he had the most out of current receiving group last year

[HarassedOffTheSite]

We really should define what we're talking about in this thread.  There are two ways of defining the #1, 2, and 3 receivers, and people seem to be mixing them up.

 

1) In one definition, #1 and #2 are the wideouts, and #3 is the slot receiver.

2) In another definition, #1 is the primary target, #2 is the secondary target, and #3 is the tertiary target.

 

I think those using the latter formula are doing so knowingly....just a passive-aggressive way of attempting to refute the initial post.

 

Nevertheless, T.Y. will NEVER be the starting 2 for this team. It just is what it is.

[mvbighead]

I think those using the latter formula are doing so knowingly....just a passive-aggressive way of attempting to refute the initial post.

 

Nevertheless, T.Y. will NEVER be the starting 2 for this team. It just is what it is.

 

Never?  Is that what Grigson said?  Pagano?  Hamilton?

 

Sorry, but I can easily refute your claim.  DHB or RW goes down with a hip injury for 4-6 weeks.  The only logical guy to throw in at a starter at #2, at this point in time, is TY.  There is no other guy.  So your NEVER simply becomes not often.

 

I still submit that TY is an improving threat.  He essentially has many of the characteristics of our former #1 receiver, Marvin Harrison.  His speed is pretty much the same.  His weight is roughly the same.  He simply lacks 3 inches of Harrison height.  All those things being equal, I would suggest that TY could very much be a #1 or a #2 if his skills continue to improve.

 

Let me put it this way, teams weren't worried about 88 knocking their socks off with blocking.  They were worried about how he was going to shred them on play action.  That, in and of itself, carries far more weight that what 88 accomplished as a blocker.  TY could be the same type of thing.

[HarassedOffTheSite]

Never?

 

Never (maybe if all the WRs are on a bus that gets smacked by a Mack truck).

[goodCOLTSwin]

Colts are blessed with a plethora of skill position offensive weapons and we could see offensive sets with:

 

5 WR's/ 0TE's/0 RB's,

 

4 WR's/1 TE's/0 RB's, 4WR's/ 0TE's/1 RB's,

 

3 WR's/ 2 TE's/0 RB's, 3 WR's/1 TE's/1 RB's, 3 WR's/ 0TE's/2 RB's,

 

2 WR's/ 2 TE's/1 RB's, 2 WR's/ 1TE's/2 RB's, 2 WR's/ 3TE's/0 RB's, 2 WR's/ 0TE's/3 RB's,

 

1 WR's/4 TE's/0 RB's, 1 WR's/ 2TE's/ 2 RB's, 1 WR's/ 3 TE's/1 RB's, 1 WR's/ 1TE's/3 RB's, 1 WR's/ 0TE's/4 RB's,

 

0 WR's/ 3TE's/2 RB's, 0 WR's/ 2TE's/3 RB's, 0 WR's/ 4TE's/ 1RB's, or 0WR's/ 1TE's/ 4RB's.

 

Each of the set models listed above could be filled with different combinations of players such as using 2 biggest WR's/ 2biggest TE's/ short yardage RB or 2 fastest WR's/ 2 fastest TE's / best receiving RB. The same basic set model would lend itself to vastly differing play calls forcing the defense to respond in totally different ways.  

 

Given all of the possible set-ups, it seems less important for us to worry about who may be designated as the #2 WR as compared to identifying the WR's who are the most skilled at all facets of the position, provide the best flexibility in case of injury, and are the most motivated to succeed personally and for the team.

[mvbighead]

Never (maybe if all the WRs are on a bus that gets smacked by a Mack truck).

 

No, if you are suggesting that DHB is going to be our #2, I will only say that it takes a loss of 1 receiver to put TY in the #2 slot.  Not a bus of receivers, just 1.  As soon as either Wayne or DHB goes down (by your suggestion of who our starters are), Hilton is the immediate next man up.

[HarassedOffTheSite]

if you are suggesting that DHB is going to be our #2, I will only say that it takes a loss of 1 receiver to put TY in the #2 slot.

 

DHB is our 2 and injury is the only way TY sees it as a starter.

[Stephen]

Yep, true. I was just thinking that even Hilton didn't break 1,000 and if I'm not mistaken Wayne is the only receiver who did this year for you guys in an offense where 12 was putting the ball up 30 times a game. But who knows, potential is everything.

Hilton was a rookie still learning. Hilton bey and wayne may each reach 1000 yards this year with atleast 16 tds between Hilton and bey

[Qwiz]

Hilton was a rookie still learning. Hilton bey and wayne may each reach 1000 yards this year with atleast 16 tds between Hilton and bey

Andre was a rookie with David Carr as his QB and he still put up 976 yards. Blackmon put up 865 (more than Hilton) with Gabbert and Henne and he was a rookie as well. Heyward-Bey has never put up 1,000 so I will believe it when I see it, but until then, it's all speculation. And considering your OC's desire to put emphasis on the run game and apparently the usage of several multiple TE sets, you won't be seeing all three guys on the field equally so I don't think all 3 will reach 1,000. But we will see. Anything can happen I suppose.

[mvbighead]

DHB is our 2 and injury is the only way TY sees it as a starter.

 

Says a fan.  Fans have also stated a number of things that don't become true.

 

At this point, I'll let the coaching staff figure it out.  Thus far, word from camp is Hilton is looking good.  Nothing has been said of DHB.

 

Guess we better start rolling out the red carpet for a free agent who was cut on a small enough contract for the Raiders, who we signed to a 1 year prove it or lose it deal, because he is a sure thing.  Sorry, but nothing about DHB suggest he is a certainty.  He is a likely better prospect than Avery, but Hilton did well in his first season, and can only improve from there.

[HarassedOffTheSite]

Says a fan.

 

Says a fan.

 

Anything else?

[funktacious2]

T.Y. had a great rookie season, and he looks to be a force in practices, but it's hard to imagine our 1 and 2 being anything other than Wayne and DHB. It just makes more sense that way, but I don't claim to be able to read the FOs mind.

[mvbighead]

Says a fan.

 

Anything else?

 

Actually, no, that isn't right.  I am only reiterating what is coming from the coaches' mouth after camp.  I am also reflecting on what HAPPENED last year.

 

Right now, Hilton has a small leg up due to familiarity with the QB, the coaches, etc.

 

I think people are getting caught up in the same thing Al Davis was caught up with in DHB.  Size/strength/speed.  Those are all nice traits, but at the end of the day, performance talks.

 

With one start to his name, Hilton:

REC - 50

YDS - 861

AVG - 17.2

TDS - 7

 

With 14 starts to his name, DHB:

REC - 41

YDS - 606

AVG - 14.8

TDS - 5

 

What am I missing here?  One could argue that DHB had a proven veteran QB throwing him the ball.  Hilton had a rookie (although no ordinary rookie).

 

I am not stating with certainty (as you are) that anyone will start.  Just simply that the FACTS don't warrant what you presume to be the most likely scenario.  Hilton's first year in the league was better than all but one of DHB's 4 seasons in the league.

 

So why is it presumed that DHB is the starter opposite Wayne for Week 1?  The answer, as far as I can see it, is size/strength/speed.  That just don't work, as there are plenty of guys with those traits that don't make it.  Vernon Gholston is the perfect example.

[UKColt13]

I think TY will be our no 2 if you think in terms of receptions. But he will not be playing outside, at least not ver often.

Reggie will continue to be the X receiver, TY will be the Y, and DHB as the Z.

Not too different from the TY/Avery dynamic we saw this season.

[Superman]

 

Actually, no, that isn't right.  I am only reiterating what is coming from the coaches' mouth after camp.  I am also reflecting on what HAPPENED last year.

 

Right now, Hilton has a small leg up due to familiarity with the QB, the coaches, etc.

 

I think people are getting caught up in the same thing Al Davis was caught up with in DHB.  Size/strength/speed.  Those are all nice traits, but at the end of the day, performance talks.

 

With one start to his name, Hilton:

REC - 50

YDS - 861

AVG - 17.2

TDS - 7

 

With 14 starts to his name, DHB:

REC - 41

YDS - 606

AVG - 14.8

TDS - 5

 

What am I missing here?  One could argue that DHB had a proven veteran QB throwing him the ball.  Hilton had a rookie (although no ordinary rookie).

 

I am not stating with certainty (as you are) that anyone will start.  Just simply that the FACTS don't warrant what you presume to be the most likely scenario.  Hilton's first year in the league was better than all but one of DHB's 4 seasons in the league.

 

So why is it presumed that DHB is the starter opposite Wayne for Week 1?  The answer, as far as I can see it, is size/strength/speed.  That just don't work, as there are plenty of guys with those traits that don't make it.  Vernon Gholston is the perfect example.

 

 

I think the argument that others are leaning on is that Hilton is the slot receiver, which he is. But some think that because he's the slot, that he can't also be the #2 receiver.

 

And there's also the different ways that people are applying that #2 receiver label.

 

I think it's much ado about nothing. I'm assuming, given health, that DHB and Hilton are going to get a similar amount of snaps overall. I think there will be some two receiver sets with DHB, and some with Hilton (probably more with DHB). And I think there might be some one receiver sets with DHB. I don't know how it all shakes out, but I think it's reasonable to assume that DHB is going to get at least as many, if not more reps than Hilton. For me, that's the determining factor in who the #2 receiver is, not where they line up.

 

End of the day, anything can happen. If Hilton clearly outplays DHB and earns more time in two receiver sets, then the hierarchy will shift and Hilton will be the #2.

 

I don't really care, to be honest. I want to see everyone healthy, and I want to see the best and most productive players get the most opportunities. DHB has talents that Hilton doesn't have, and vice versa, so I think they'll be a good complement to each other, and I think we'll be well served to get them both on the field together as much as possible. I don't care who starts, I just hope everyone plays well.

 

I'm more concerned with the back end receivers, backs and tight ends. That's where the real competition will be. Brazill, Whalen, Sambrano, Kelley, etc., are all duking it out for probably two roster spots. Cunningham, Jones, Saunders, Havili, Carter, Moore, Williams, etc. are all duking it out for another two or three spots (assuming Allen, Fleener, Ballard and Brown all have secure spots). I think our top seven skill positions are all pretty well set: Wayne, Hilton, DHB, Brown, Ballard, Fleener and Allen. They'll be the main pieces of our offensive attack.

[Dustin]

TY played the majority of his snaps on the outside last year. Not sure why people are acting like he can't play on the outside.

[HarassedOffTheSite]

I think the argument that others are leaning on is that Hilton is the slot receiver, which he is. But some think that because he's the slot, that he can't also be the #2 receiver.

 

[HarassedOffTheSite]

 

Actually, no...

 

...ok, whatever.

[Superman]

Yeah, that's pretty much my feeling as well. The two are not mutually exclusive, but to each his own.

[mvbighead]

I think the argument that others are leaning on is that Hilton is the slot receiver, which he is. But some think that because he's the slot, that he can't also be the #2 receiver.

 

And there's also the different ways that people are applying that #2 receiver label.

 

I think it's much ado about nothing. I'm assuming, given health, that DHB and Hilton are going to get a similar amount of snaps overall. I think there will be some two receiver sets with DHB, and some with Hilton (probably more with DHB). And I think there might be some one receiver sets with DHB. I don't know how it all shakes out, but I think it's reasonable to assume that DHB is going to get at least as many, if not more reps than Hilton. For me, that's the determining factor in who the #2 receiver is, not where they line up.

 

End of the day, anything can happen. If Hilton clearly outplays DHB and earns more time in two receiver sets, then the hierarchy will shift and Hilton will be the #2.

 

I don't really care, to be honest. I want to see everyone healthy, and I want to see the best and most productive players get the most opportunities. DHB has talents that Hilton doesn't have, and vice versa, so I think they'll be a good complement to each other, and I think we'll be well served to get them both on the field together as much as possible. I don't care who starts, I just hope everyone plays well.

 

I'm more concerned with the back end receivers, backs and tight ends. That's where the real competition will be. Brazill, Whalen, Sambrano, Kelley, etc., are all duking it out for probably two roster spots. Cunningham, Jones, Saunders, Havili, Carter, Moore, Williams, etc. are all duking it out for another two or three spots (assuming Allen, Fleener, Ballard and Brown all have secure spots). I think our top seven skill positions are all pretty well set: Wayne, Hilton, DHB, Brown, Ballard, Fleener and Allen. They'll be the main pieces of our offensive attack.

 

And that is something else I don't buy.  Hilton was just as much of a slot receiver last year as Wayne was, and probably less.

 

As for the #2 label, I consider it the guy getting the 2nd most snaps, with Wayne be the obvious choice for the #1.  I wouldn't be surprised, however, if they labeled either Hilton or DHB as the #1 guy, and ran Wayne as the #2 for the next 2-3 years depending on how he holds up.  As he ages, he won't be dominating teams #1 CB, but he should still be a viable option on most offensive snaps.  He could still have a solid 1 or 2 years left being the number 1 guy, but I suppose that all depends on how his play is this year, or they could withhold some snaps to extend his seasons in hopes for great production in the playoffs.

 

Anyhoo, much like the other questions going on on this board, I am simply troubled by the notion that DHB is going to be handed a gig as the primary receiver opposite Wayne.  He could earn the spot, no doubt, but nothing he has done in is career is indicative of him being the better player right now.  Hilton was a role player last year with better production.  One can only assume that if he is given more snaps, his production will improve.

 

The only argument I see coming from the DHB side is that he has better size and strength.  That is simply something the Colts have not valued in the WR position for quite some time.  Sure, if we had Calvin Johnson or Andre Johnson, there would be a different story.  But right now we're talking about a guy whose production has been anything but close to elite.  He has yet to eclipse 1000 yards with 4 seasons to his name.  He had a veteran slinger throwing to him the last 2 years.  What else am I missing here?

[Superman]

And that is something else I don't buy.  Hilton was just as much of a slot receiver last year as Wayne was, and probably less.

 

As for the #2 label, I consider it the guy getting the 2nd most snaps, with Wayne be the obvious choice for the #1.  I wouldn't be surprised, however, if they labeled either Hilton or DHB as the #1 guy, and ran Wayne as the #2 for the next 2-3 years depending on how he holds up.  As he ages, he won't be dominating teams #1 CB, but he should still be a viable option on most offensive snaps.  He could still have a solid 1 or 2 years left being the number 1 guy, but I suppose that all depends on how his play is this year, or they could withhold some snaps to extend his seasons in hopes for great production in the playoffs.

 

Anyhoo, much like the other questions going on on this board, I am simply troubled by the notion that DHB is going to be handed a gig as the primary receiver opposite Wayne.  He could earn the spot, no doubt, but nothing he has done in is career is indicative of him being the better player right now.  Hilton was a role player last year with better production.  One can only assume that if he is given more snaps, his production will improve.

 

The only argument I see coming from the DHB side is that he has better size and strength.  That is simply something the Colts have not valued in the WR position for quite some time.  Sure, if we had Calvin Johnson or Andre Johnson, there would be a different story.  But right now we're talking about a guy whose production has been anything but close to elite.  He has yet to eclipse 1000 yards with 4 seasons to his name.  He had a veteran slinger throwing to him the last 2 years.  What else am I missing here?

 

I'm not sure that you're saying anything that's inaccurate, but I'm not sure that some of what you're saying is in proper context. For instance, who determined that 1,000 yards is the standard to which a #2 receiver should be held? Several times regarding DHB it's been stated that he's never had a 1,000 yard season, as if that's a determining factor in what role he should play for us. Never mind that he had 975 yards in 15 games in 2011, and that was with a team that was much less effective than the 2012 Colts were. It's not like 1,000 yards is something DHB has absolutely no shot at attaining.

 

The other thing I'm not sure of is that DHB is going to be handed anything here. I think everyone anticipates that he'll earn that second outside role and be a big part of our passing attack, but I don't think the coaching staff has him locked in without regard for his performance or that of another player. Due to his size and athleticism, it would be great if he really took off here, but at this point he has a lot to prove. 

 

Like I've said, I think Hilton and DHB will get a similar amount of snaps and be put in a lot of different situations, so I think the whole #2 vs. slot debate is a little silly. I think they'll both get plenty of opportunities to make an impact, and until or unless one proves to be better or significantly more productive than the other, they will be a tandem threat. 

[AntonMcG]

I'm not sure that you're saying anything that's inaccurate, but I'm not sure that some of what you're saying is in proper context. For instance, who determined that 1,000 yards is the standard to which a #2 receiver should be held? Several times regarding DHB it's been stated that he's never had a 1,000 yard season, as if that's a determining factor in what role he should play for us. Never mind that he had 975 yards in 15 games in 2011, and that was with a team that was much less effective than the 2012 Colts were. It's not like 1,000 yards is something DHB has absolutely no shot at attaining.

 

The other thing I'm not sure of is that DHB is going to be handed anything here. I think everyone anticipates that he'll earn that second outside role and be a big part of our passing attack, but I don't think the coaching staff has him locked in without regard for his performance or that of another player. Due to his size and athleticism, it would be great if he really took off here, but at this point he has a lot to prove. 

 

Like I've said, I think Hilton and DHB will get a similar amount of snaps and be put in a lot of different situations, so I think the whole #2 vs. slot debate is a little silly. I think they'll both get plenty of opportunities to make an impact, and until or unless one proves to be better or significantly more productive than the other, they will be a tandem threat. 

 

Very well put, that is pretty much my exact sentiments.

 

Just to reiterate your point on this 1000-yard measurement as the baseline for success... I think that is pretty narrow-minded. How many #2s of a TE-heavy offense break 1000? He can be utilized as a field stretcher that opens up the short-passing/running game and he can be a dump off nightmare for defenses, his presence can often be as important as his production. And he could be a great red-zone target.

 

I think a degree of optimism is required in relation to DHB, he has what it takes physically, he has experience under his belt, he is an a good environment and he is a proven hard worker. There is no reason he shouldn't do well.