Kaepernick vs Luck (NFL.com)

[John Dee]

[Stephen]

How is Luck more clutch than Kap?  Did anyone watch the playoffs?  Kap came back from 17 on the road vs the #1 seed Falcons.  Luck led us to 9 points (only 3 in the 2nd half) vs the Ravens.  How did Kap do vs the Ravens?  

 

Coming from behind vs scrub teams and doing it in the playoffs are 2 different things.

Plus the falcons have a rep for choking in the playoffs and that is exactly what happened last year

[House]

How is Luck more clutch than Kap? Did anyone watch the playoffs? Kap came back from 17 on the road vs the #1 seed Falcons. Luck led us to 9 points (only 3 in the 2nd half) vs the Ravens. How did Kap do vs the Ravens?

Coming from behind vs scrub teams and doing it in the playoffs are 2 different things.

You think Kap has a great playoff run without having the great run game, and superb defense?

I don't personally.

Hard to compare these two because the teams around them are polar opposites.

[Malakai432]

I think his record-setting performance coming back from down 17 (something never done before in a Championship game) against the Falcons is still fresh in a lot of people's minds. He was also known for making big comebacks at Nevada, he had four if I'm not mistaken.

, I blame the power outage.

[Qwiz]

, I blame the power outage.

Lol that was the SB man, not the NFC Championship  But you make a fine point, he made a comeback against the Ravens too and was one missed call away from winning...it's madness!!

[Malakai432]

Lol that was the SB man, not the NFC Championship But you make a fine point, he made a comeback against the Ravens too and was one missed call away from winning...it's madness!!

Ohh yeah good point, forgot about that NFC championship game, lol. Wow many drinks and crazy nights since then.

[Qwiz]

Ohh yeah good point, forgot about that NFC championship game, lol. Wow many drinks and crazy nights since then.

:disco: 

[southwest1]

Wow... I just don't know where to start...

Sigh... re read your statement and then go BACK through the Colts game log.....

and report back like a good soldier.. .

or go AWOL... as I expect.. .

AWOL "Absent Without Leave"...I wonder what the most popular country for defection purposes is today outside of the U.S.? Russia? Canada? France? Germany? Africa? I always wanted to see Morocco actually, but I digress. LOL! Thanks John for making me smile man. Dictators seem to love Africa for some reason, & for the record if the CIA asks, I am not a dictator not even an exiled one, but a few of my college professors could easily be mistaken for one in appearance anyway. Dark shades & canes with gold leaf handles etc. etc.

[Gavin]

Um wasn't the Kaepernick vs Luck at some point in time

[southwest1]

, I blame the power outage.

I still say that Batman's arch nemesis Bane did it...Ha! Ha! Hey Malakai432, he already blew up 3 Rivers Stadium in Pittsburg dude...

 

 

 

[NewEra]

We lived through years of manning vs Brady. Now looks like we will have to do the luck vs kap, Wilson, bobby, the cat from Miami and all while living in mannings shadow. Yawn...can't wait to start the year to shut these fools up.

[smittywerb]

 

He had:

Kaepernick being more athletic

Even on arm talent

Luck on pocket presence

Kaepernick on game management

Even on clutch factor

 

 

I agree on athleticism, that's not Luck's game.

 

Arm talent, yeah.  But if accuracy was a factor then Luck would clearly have him beat.

 

Pocket presence obviously goes to Luck.

 

Game management, really?  KP?  KP had the priviledge of playing with a top notch defense that helped him with managing the game. People do not realize how easy it is for a QB to manage the game when his defense plays lights out.

 

Clutch factor, I guess he is basing this off of the SB comeback because Luck has way more 4th quarter comebacks than KP.

 

Nothing against KP, but if Luck had that 49ers team, they wouldn't have lost the SB.

[Tark The Shark]

Personally I can't wait to see these two duel against each other in the regular season.

[ColtStrong]

Luck is a pure drop back QB

No he's not. Peyton is a pure drop back QB. Luck is mostly a drop back QB, but not pure.

[House]

No he's not. Peyton is a pure drop back QB. Luck is mostly a drop back QB, but not pure.

In what reguard?

[ColtStrong]

In what reguard?

My post speaks for itself. You've seen peyton and andrew play, right?

[Dustin]

In what reguard?

He can run.

[House]

My post speaks for itself. You've seen peyton and andrew play, right?

His mobility makes him not a pure pocket passer? I've never really correlated the two because mobility is not the same as being a scrambling QB, Wildcat, ect.

[House]

He can run.

So can Aaron Rodgers and he's as pure of a pocket passer there is.

Though I'm not sure if you guys are making the case for mobility meaning you aren't a pure pocket passer.

As it isn't option 1,2, or 3 only really used as last resort or a breakdown.

[ColtStrong]

Some of us must have different definitions of pure pocket passer.

[House]

Some of us must have different definitions of pure pocket passer.

Clearly, though instead of "some of us" you could have just said me

The definition to me doesn't mean you are a pure pocket passer because you lack the athleticism to go anywhere else.

It's that your game is about honing dropping back reading a defense, and accurately and consistently delivering the ball. Pure pocket passer.

Vick is not a "pure pocket passer" because he looks to scramble frequently.

[Dustin]

So can Aaron Rodgers and he's as pure of a pocket passer there is.

Though I'm not sure if you guys are making the case for mobility meaning you aren't a pure pocket passer.

As it isn't option 1,2, or 3 only really used as last resort or a breakdown.

I wouldn't call Rodgers a pure pocket passer either. Both are duel threat QBs. They tend to stay in pocket, but I define a pure pocket passer as a QB with no athleticism and who refuse to take running lanes( Peyton, Brady, ect..) If there is a lane for a 1st down, Rodgers and Luck will both likely take it. Just my definition though.

[ColtStrong]

Clearly, though instead of "some of us" you could have just said me

The definition to me doesn't mean you are a pure pocket passer because you lack the athleticism to go anywhere else.

It's that your game is about honing dropping back reading a defense, and accurately and consistently delivering the ball. Pure pocket passer.

Vick is not a "pure pocket passer" because he looks to scramble frequently.

To me, pure means 100%. There are designed runs for Luck, and he can run very well. Maybe it's the word pure I have a problem with.

[ColtStrong]

I wouldn't call Rodgers a pure pocket passer either. Both are duel threat QBs. They tend to stay in pocket, but I define a pure pocket passer as a QB with no athleticism and refuse to take running lanes( Peyton, Brady, ect..) If there is a lane for a 1st down, Rodgers and Luck will both likely take it. Just my definition though.

Pretty much my definition.

[House]

I wouldn't call Rodgers a pure pocket passer either. Both are duel threat QBs. They tend to stay in pocket, but I define a pure pocket passer as a QB with no athleticism and refuse to take running lanes( Peyton, Brady, ect..) If there is a lane for a 1st down, Rodgers and Luck will both likely take it. Just my definition though.

More than fair. Nothing more than a difference of definition.

I don't look at dual threat QBs as not being pure pocket passers, just pure pocket passers with an escape plan if need be, like Rodgers and Luck.

[House]

To me, pure means 100%. There are designed runs for Luck, and he can run very well. Maybe it's the word pure I have a problem with.

No big deal at all, I was just curious to know what you felt separated Luck and Peyton.

I suppose I just lump Peyton under immobile lol.

[esmort]

Arm Talent - Kap,  like NCF said Kap's bigger arm gives him a slight edge in this category.

 

Pocket Presence - Luck by a landslide

 

Game Management - Even - If not for the INTs this would be advantage Luck

 

Clutch - Luck easily

 

Athletic - Even - unless athleticism is being purely based on straight line speed (40 time).

 

From combine:

 

40 yd dash: Kap

Kap: 4.53 sec

Luck: 4.67 sec

 

Vertical: Luck

Luck: 36"

Kap: 32.5"

 

Broad Jump: Luck

Luck: 124"

Kap:115"

 

3 Cone Drill: Luck

Luck: 6.8 sec

Kap: 6.85 sec

 

20 Yd Shuttle: Kap

Kap: 4.18 sec

Luck: 4.28 sec

[unitaswestand]

That reminds me of a story I saw on like ESPN in 1999 or 2000 where they rated the best young QBs in the NFL.  They picked Donovan McNabb over Peyton Manning.

 

Luck will be the best QB in the NFL in the next three years.

[coltsfanmilyman]

He can run.

As opposed to Manning.  I still remember Manning on the naked bootleg against the Raiders. . . that was a scary sight!

[smittywerb]

As opposed to Manning.  I still remember Manning on the naked bootleg against the Raiders. . . that was a scary sight!

 

 

The slowest 10 seconds of my life!

[crazycolt1]

How did your "great" QB do in the playoffs?

He took a 2-14 team into the playoffs. I guess that don't count?  How about the fact that 5 of his 7 receivers were rookies. How about the fact he QBed a team that had 37 new players on the roster? How about his head coach not on the sidelines?  How about the fact he had a very poor offensive line?  Does that answer your question? 

[NewColtsFan]

In what reguard?

 

In what regard?    Andrew can roll out and throw very well on the run.   He can roll right and left and complete passes.

 

His game is not limited to the pocket.    He showed that last year in an offense that didn't even play to his strength.   I think you'll see more of that this year when he's in a more suitable offense.

[NewColtsFan]

Arm Talent - Kap,  like NCF said Kap's bigger arm gives him a slight edge in this category.

 

Pocket Presence - Luck by a landslide

 

Game Management - Even - If not for the INTs this would be advantage Luck

 

Clutch - Luck easily

 

Athletic - Even - unless athleticism is being purely based on straight line speed (40 time).

 

From combine:

 

40 yd dash: Kap

Kap: 4.53 sec

Luck: 4.67 sec

 

Vertical: Luck

Luck: 36"

Kap: 32.5"

 

Broad Jump: Luck

Luck: 124"

Kap:115"

 

3 Cone Drill: Luck

Luck: 6.8 sec

Kap: 6.85 sec

 

20 Yd Shuttle: Kap

Kap: 4.18 sec

Luck: 4.28 sec

 

Thanks for doing the homework Esmort!    Props!    

 

I think most football fans -- and I even include me sometimes -- underrate just how good of an athlete Andrew Luck really is.

 

Those numbers your posted give a better illustration of how good an athlete Andrew is.... 

 

I hope you'll remember your post and be ready to retrieve it for years to come....   I suspect you're going to need it....

[southwest1]

As opposed to Manning.  I still remember Manning on the naked bootleg against the Raiders. . . that was a scary sight!

 

 

The slowest 10 seconds of my life!

Yes, but like seeing the live birth of a white buffalo calf, how often does a person get to see a giraffe run? An extremely rare occurrence in both cases gentlemen. 

 

 

[braveheartcolt]

To me, the definition of a pure pocket passer is a QB who 100% stays in the pocket and passes. Therefore there is no such beast alive in the NFL! Peyton gets labelled one because he is slow. I'm with House.

[AntonMcG]

AWOL "Absent Without Leave"...I wonder what the most popular country for defection purposes is today outside of the U.S.? Russia? Canada? France? Germany? Africa? I always wanted to see Morocco actually, but I digress. LOL! Thanks John for making me smile man. Dictators seem to love Africa for some reason, & for the record if the CIA asks, I am not a dictator not even an exiled one, but a few of my college professors could easily be mistaken for one in appearance anyway. Dark shades & canes with gold leaf handles etc. etc.

 

No you don't.

[AntonMcG]

I have several issues with this article. I find Brooks to be very limited in his analysis and he makes huge generalizations, this being an example (another one being Matt Barkley as the next Tom Brady). He tries to define these 2 players by a few characteristics on a measurement of 'who is better' as the measuring units. Whoever is better more, wins. It makes for a nice easily digestable read for someone with limited knowledge and a hangover, but it just does not cut it.

 

I am all for respecting journalists right to their opinion, as long as research has been done, and they have some merit to their assertions, this is not the case here... I try my best to steer away from homerisms and be as objective as possible, so I say this with that in mind.

 

In terms of arm talent he and many on here are way off-base. This is not a measure of how far and fast a QB can throw the ball. A throwing arm is the a QB's most vital tool, so to limit it to this is simply lazy. Luck has an incredible throwing arm, he has very good velocity, can throw deep even without having feet set and is outlandishly accurate on short and medium routes. Kaepernick has a very powerful arm, but he does not have Luck's accuracy and muscle memory. Maybe someone who only watched Luck last year in a very vertical offense would consider his arm 'not-quite-elite' but his work at Stanford proves it is potentially the best arm in football (hopefully he can exhibit this more in the coming season). He also has a great, quick-release throwing motion, Kaepernick does not. The one criticism I would make in regards to Luck's arm is Kaepernick probably delivers a tidier ball, still not enough to give him an edge though, Manning's spiral was occasionally erratic afterall.

 

Luck is not the finished product, but if Jim Harbaugh had him running his offense again last year, I don't see how they don't win a Super Bowl. Kaepernick was not winning 11 games with the Colts. The talent Kaepernick has around him is amazing, similiar to what Joe Montana had, and he made the most of it, as I'm sure will Kaepernick, and he will be a media darling because of it. 'Product of the System' might be too harsh on him but he certainly benefitted form having a great running game, the best blockers in the business (certainly when opening running lanes) and a very deep and talented receiving core. Kaepernick showed a lack of composure a couple of times last year that could have proved costly, he is not the finished article either, the difference is he does not have Luck's pedigree... and he is 2 years older.

 

No GM would take Kaepernick over Luck right now.

[lollygagger8]

I say we tie one of Luck and Kap's hands together and give them a knife in the other hand.....there can be only one!!! 

[Qwiz]

He took a 2-14 team into the playoffs. I guess that don't count?  How about the fact that 5 of his 7 receivers were rookies. How about the fact he QBed a team that had 37 new players on the roster? How about his head coach not on the sidelines?  How about the fact he had a very poor offensive line?  Does that answer your question? 

And I suppose he carried the whole revamped team into the playoffs all on his own too, right? Yet for some reason could not manage even a single TD pass. He didn't take a 2-14 team into the playoffs. That team was reshaped and restructured completely. He and an 11-5 team went into the playoffs. And his head coach was on the sideline in the playoff game too, in a game that many around here thought was going to be a piece of cake and a sure ride to Denver to face Manning. If you want to be calling anyone out you should be calling out the troll that's been on my back since the day he joined. I don't make statements like the one you quoted for no reason or to stir up a cauldron. It was meant as a snarky response to him and not a slight against any of the other civil members on this board.

[Qwiz]

I say we tie one of Luck and Kap's hands together and give them a knife in the other hand.....there can be only one!!! 

Saw style.