AFC South

[OlBlu]

Resorting to name calling yet again, I see.... Name callers should just be banned. Having a view that is different from yours is no reason to start calling names..... You got an earlier thread closed are you going to do it again?  :dancing:

 

Dustin liked this post so that must be his goal to get another thread closed..... :dancing:

[Flash7]

Please take the time to read this very, very long response to your criticism of Luck.

The normal excuses for Luck. That doesn't do anything about his arm strength or his accuracy.... But you are right, he deserves a bit more time. I think this year will tell the tale..... :dancing:

 

The case for Luck

 

In a broad overview, we can all agree that Luck stepped into a situation that was daunting—being drafted first overall by a team that just finished 2-14 and released its previous QB, Peyton Manning, who may go down in history as one of the best to ever play the position. Luck was asked to step in and win, and win he did.

 

In contrast, Russell Wilson was drafted by a team with a good rushing attack and one of the best defenses. RGIII wasn’t drafted into a great situation, but was afforded a team with one of the league’s best rushing attacks (partially due to RGIII himself), and an average but opportunistic defense. Tannehill had the benefit of playing for his previous college coach in a similar offense. The Dolphins had a good O-line and a good defense, but an average receiving corps.

 

Offensive Personnel: Luck was a rookie along with Coby Fleener, Duane Allen, T.Y. Hilton, and Vick Ballard. Donnie Avery was new to the team and he and Hilton led the league in pass drop rate at 16.7%. This group was asked to play together from the very beginning and go through their growing pains together. This would help to explain the inconsistency on offense at times. Luck relied heavily on the brilliant play of Reggie Wayne, who drew double teams quite often.

 

Wilson played with veterans, both at WR and RB. Even with this veteran group the Seahawks had the 27^th ranked passing offense in the league.  RGIII had a solid group of receivers and a workhorse rookie running back who was in the discussion for rookie of the year. Tannheill had a very good slot receiver in Devon Bess, a fairly good receiver in Brian Hartline, and a good veteran play maker RB in Reggie Bush, who also caught the ball really well out of the backfield.

 

O-Line: The Colts could boast that they possibly had the worst O-line in the league last year. Only the left side of the O-line was serviceable in the run game; however, it made it very predictable where the ball was going. The Colts relied on the left side of the line in the run game perhaps on over 75% of their run plays. The pass blocking was horrendous, leading to 41 sacks and very little time for Luck to effectively set his feet, survey the field, and complete a pass. He was essentially hurried nearly every pass play.

 

Russell Wilson played behind one of the best O-lines in the league. This group was very good in pass protection and run blocking.  However, the Seahawks were still nearly last in passing yards, despite being afforded the luxury of the league’s 3^rd best rushing attack, which should help in the play-action passing game, and help to open passing lanes. RGIII had a good O-line only in the run game, but a line that struggled a little in pass blocking. Tannehill played behind a very solid O-line. They were not spectacular but good in both pass protection and run blocking.

 

Offesive Schemes: Of the four rookies, Luck, RGIII, Wilson, and Tannehill (not going to include Weeden in this discussion), Luck had the most “vertical” offense. He was asked to throw the ball more and deeper than any of the other rookies. This was problematic after taking into account the lack of pass protection as mentioned above, not to mention that it asked a lot of the rookie QB. Luck was consistently asked to drop back, scan the field and complete deep passes into the heart of the defense. Yes, Luck did have his share of interceptions, but some of it is understandable knowing what was asked of him. In addition, the passing scheme did not call for many check-downs and did not include many roll-outs for easier completions. By not having check-down options, Luck was asked to throw the ball to receivers downfield. The Colts had the 22^nd ranked rushing attack. Their inability to gain the necessary yards on short yardage situations led the team to pass much more often, including in the red zone. Luck actually led the team in rushing TDs as further proof of this point. Luck passed 39 times per game on average. It’s clear that the Colts relied on Luck both in the passing game and running game to score points.

 

In contrast, Wilson played in an offensive scheme that was QB friendly. The Seahawks relied on their running game and asked Wilson to throw the ball about 25 times per game. They took advantage of the play-action, sometimes in the pistol formation and read-option plays, allowing for easier reads and easier completions. Wilson, however, was asked to make reads in the passing scheme and to make difficult throws at times. The Redskin’s offensive scheme was brilliant. They ran a variation of the read-option offense, and Shanahan’s offense out of the Pistol formation. Of the 4 rookie QBs, RGIII used play-action the most. He was also asked to run with the ball more than the others to take advantage of his speed and to create hesitation and confusion for the opposing defenses. RGIII had a very good running back and helped the Redskins to lead the league in rushing, yet RGIII finished 22nd in the league in passing yards gained while Wilson finished 23^rd. Both RGIII and Wilson finished with passer ratings over 100, which is incredible. Tannehill played in an offense that relied on WCO principles. This includes shorter routes, and the use of roll-outs and check-downs for easier completions. (The Colts look to use this approach this upcoming year).  Overall, Tannehill performed well, but consider this: he was in an offense that he was familiar with, behind a good O-line, and in a QB friendly offense, yet he finished behind Luck in QB rating-- something that Luck often gets criticized for.

 

Run game: The Colts finished with the 22^nd ranking rushing attack. Donald Brown started at the RB position during the beginning of the season but missed time later due to injury. Vick Ballard stepped in and played very well. The O-line did not generate many running opportunities and the Colts were not a major threat in the run game. This allowed defenses to focus greatly on the Colt’s passing attack.

 

The Seahawks, as mentioned earlier, have the league’s 3rd best rushing attack, in part due to the play of Russel Wilson, but mostly due to Marshawn Lynch running behind a very stout O-line. The use of the read-option and the pistol also aided in the success of the run game. The pistol and the read-option were staples in the Redskin’s rushing attack. With RGIII’s ability to run, defenses had to read and react to the Redskin’s offense, often placing the defense behind a step or two. The Redskins have a very good running back who rushed for over 1,600 yards and RGIII also ran very well.  The Dolphins finished with the 17^th ranked rushing attack, with a good RB and a solid O-line that can create running lanes.

 

Defense: The Colts defense ranked #26 in the league, 21^st in passing and 29^th against the run. So in essences, it didn’t excel in any aspect, especially at creating turnovers. The Seahawks defense ranked #4 overall, 6^th against the pass and 10^th against the run. They were a very good unit. The Redskins finished #28 in overall defense, 30^th against the pass, (the loss of their edge rusher due to injury really hurt), and 5^th against the run. At least the Redskins were able to make their opponents one-sided and did well in creating turnovers. Miami started the year off strong and had a good defense, but it greatly underachieved over the course of the season. The Dolphins ranked #21 overall, 27^th against the pass and 13^th against the run.

 

In defending Luck’s stats as compared to the other rookies (as this is how they are most often compared, regardless of the many other variables that factor into the equation). People point to Wilson’s and RGIII’s greater completion percentage and QB rating, and to the high amount of turnovers that Luck is responsible for. My overall thoughts are that I do agree that Luck at times had his struggles. He did rely on Wayne too often. He held onto the ball too long, and he wasn’t always very accurate. Did he have too many turnovers? Yes, perhaps. In fairness, of the four rookie QBs, who was behind the worst O-line; he had the lowest ranking rushing attack; and couldn’t rely on the run game which led defenses to focus more on the passing attack? Who had to rely heavily on other rookies in an offensive system that was the most vertical in comparison to the other three rookie QBs, one that rarely included check-downs? As you know, in the NFL, the greater the distance that a pass travels, the greater the odds are of an interception. If Luck is consistently throwing a deeper pass than his peers, his interception numbers will be higher. I would also like to note that he threw 18 interceptions and the record for most interceptions thrown by a rookie is 26, by Peyton Manning. Luck was not encroaching into that territory of all-time bad. Colts did not rely on the pistol or read option to confuse the defense and in-fact were very predictable.  Despite all of these obstacles, he still found a way to lead the Colts to an 11 win season, a season that included an appearance in the playoffs. I would like to refute the notion that passer rating is the best way to judge a QBs performance. The current passer rating system heavily favors QBs that throw shorter passes and have a greater completion percentage for this reason. My case and point would be Alex Smith early in the season. He was among the highest in passer rating, with a rating of 104 before he left with concussion issue. No one would argue that Alex Smith, (Mr. Checkdown and don’t take any risk) is the model NFL QB. He’s been labeled a game manager for this reason. It’s been long argued that both RGIII and Wilson are asked to make safer and shorter throws and run if the pass is not available. You cannot knock them for being careful with the ball, but you can make a point that they are asked to do severely different things than Luck, leading to a higher passer rating.

[OlBlu]

Please take the time to read this very, very long response to your criticism of Luck.

 

The case for Luck

 

In a broad overview, we can all agree that Luck stepped into a situation that was daunting—being drafted first overall by a team that just finished 2-14 and released its previous QB, Peyton Manning, who may go down in history as one of the best to ever play the position. Luck was asked to step in and win, and win he did.

 

In contrast, Russell Wilson was drafted by a team with a good rushing attack and one of the best defenses. RGIII wasn’t drafted into a great situation, but was afforded a team with one of the league’s best rushing attacks (partially due to RGIII himself), and an average but opportunistic defense. Tannehill had the benefit of playing for his previous college coach in a similar offense. The Dolphins had a good O-line and a good defense, but an average receiving corps.

 

Offensive Personnel: Luck was a rookie along with Coby Fleener, Duane Allen, T.Y. Hilton, and Vick Ballard. Donnie Avery was new to the team and he and Hilton led the league in pass drop rate at 16.7%. This group was asked to play together from the very beginning and go through their growing pains together. This would help to explain the inconsistency on offense at times. Luck relied heavily on the brilliant play of Reggie Wayne, who drew double teams quite often.

 

Wilson played with veterans, both at WR and RB. Even with this veteran group the Seahawks had the 27^th ranked passing offense in the league.  RGIII had a solid group of receivers and a workhorse rookie running back who was in the discussion for rookie of the year. Tannheill had a very good slot receiver in Devon Bess, a fairly good receiver in Brian Hartline, and a good veteran play maker RB in Reggie Bush, who also caught the ball really well out of the backfield.

 

O-Line: The Colts could boast that they possibly had the worst O-line in the league last year. Only the left side of the O-line was serviceable in the run game; however, it made it very predictable where the ball was going. The Colts relied on the left side of the line in the run game perhaps on over 75% of their run plays. The pass blocking was horrendous, leading to 41 sacks and very little time for Luck to effectively set his feet, survey the field, and complete a pass. He was essentially hurried nearly every pass play.

 

Russell Wilson played behind one of the best O-lines in the league. This group was very good in pass protection and run blocking.  However, the Seahawks were still nearly last in passing yards, despite being afforded the luxury of the league’s 3^rd best rushing attack, which should help in the play-action passing game, and help to open passing lanes. RGIII had a good O-line only in the run game, but a line that struggled a little in pass blocking. Tannehill played behind a very solid O-line. They were not spectacular but good in both pass protection and run blocking.

 

Offesive Schemes: Of the four rookies, Luck, RGIII, Wilson, and Tannehill (not going to include Weeden in this discussion), Luck had the most “vertical” offense. He was asked to throw the ball more and deeper than any of the other rookies. This was problematic after taking into account the lack of pass protection as mentioned above, not to mention that it asked a lot of the rookie QB. Luck was consistently asked to drop back, scan the field and complete deep passes into the heart of the defense. Yes, Luck did have his share of interceptions, but some of it is understandable knowing what was asked of him. In addition, the passing scheme did not call for many check-downs and did not include many roll-outs for easier completions. By not having check-down options, Luck was asked to throw the ball to receivers downfield. The Colts had the 22^nd ranked rushing attack. Their inability to gain the necessary yards on short yardage situations led the team to pass much more often, including in the red zone. Luck actually led the team in rushing TDs as further proof of this point. Luck passed 39 times per game on average. It’s clear that the Colts relied on Luck both in the passing game and running game to score points.

 

In contrast, Wilson played in an offensive scheme that was QB friendly. The Seahawks relied on their running game and asked Wilson to throw the ball about 25 times per game. They took advantage of the play-action, sometimes in the pistol formation and read-option plays, allowing for easier reads and easier completions. Wilson, however, was asked to make reads in the passing scheme and to make difficult throws at times. The Redskin’s offensive scheme was brilliant. They ran a variation of the read-option offense, and Shanahan’s offense out of the Pistol formation. Of the 4 rookie QBs, RGIII used play-action the most. He was also asked to run with the ball more than the others to take advantage of his speed and to create hesitation and confusion for the opposing defenses. RGIII had a very good running back and helped the Redskins to lead the league in rushing, yet RGIII finished 22nd in the league in passing yards gained while Wilson finished 23^rd. Both RGIII and Wilson finished with passer ratings over 100, which is incredible. Tannehill played in an offense that relied on WCO principles. This includes shorter routes, and the use of roll-outs and check-downs for easier completions. (The Colts look to use this approach this upcoming year).  Overall, Tannehill performed well, but consider this: he was in an offense that he was familiar with, behind a good O-line, and in a QB friendly offense, yet he finished behind Luck in QB rating-- something that Luck often gets criticized for.

 

Run game: The Colts finished with the 22^nd ranking rushing attack. Donald Brown started at the RB position during the beginning of the season but missed time later due to injury. Vick Ballard stepped in and played very well. The O-line did not generate many running opportunities and the Colts were not a major threat in the run game. This allowed defenses to focus greatly on the Colt’s passing attack.

 

The Seahawks, as mentioned earlier, have the league’s 3rd best rushing attack, in part due to the play of Russel Wilson, but mostly due to Marshawn Lynch running behind a very stout O-line. The use of the read-option and the pistol also aided in the success of the run game. The pistol and the read-option were staples in the Redskin’s rushing attack. With RGIII’s ability to run, defenses had to read and react to the Redskin’s offense, often placing the defense behind a step or two. The Redskins have a very good running back who rushed for over 1,600 yards and RGIII also ran very well.  The Dolphins finished with the 17^th ranked rushing attack, with a good RB and a solid O-line that can create running lanes.

 

Defense: The Colts defense ranked #26 in the league, 21^st in passing and 29^th against the run. So in essences, it didn’t excel in any aspect, especially at creating turnovers. The Seahawks defense ranked #4 overall, 6^th against the pass and 10^th against the run. They were a very good unit. The Redskins finished #28 in overall defense, 30^th against the pass, (the loss of their edge rusher due to injury really hurt), and 5^th against the run. At least the Redskins were able to make their opponents one-sided and did well in creating turnovers. Miami started the year off strong and had a good defense, but it greatly underachieved over the course of the season. The Dolphins ranked #21 overall, 27^th against the pass and 13^th against the run.

 

In defending Luck’s stats as compared to the other rookies (as this is how they are most often compared, regardless of the many other variables that factor into the equation). People point to Wilson’s and RGIII’s greater completion percentage and QB rating, and to the high amount of turnovers that Luck is responsible for. My overall thoughts are that I do agree that Luck at times had his struggles. He did rely on Wayne too often. He held onto the ball too long, and he wasn’t always very accurate. Did he have too many turnovers? Yes, perhaps. In fairness, of the four rookie QBs, who was behind the worst O-line; he had the lowest ranking rushing attack; and couldn’t rely on the run game which led defenses to focus more on the passing attack? Who had to rely heavily on other rookies in an offensive system that was the most vertical in comparison to the other three rookie QBs, one that rarely included check-downs? As you know, in the NFL, the greater the distance that a pass travels, the greater the odds are of an interception. If Luck is consistently throwing a deeper pass than his peers, his interception numbers will be higher. I would also like to note that he threw 18 interceptions and the record for most interceptions thrown by a rookie is 26, by Peyton Manning. Luck was not encroaching into that territory of all-time bad. Colts did not rely on the pistol or read option to confuse the defense and in-fact were very predictable.  Despite all of these obstacles, he still found a way to lead the Colts to an 11 win season, a season that included an appearance in the playoffs. I would like to refute the notion that passer rating is the best way to judge a QBs performance. The current passer rating system heavily favors QBs that throw shorter passes and have a greater completion percentage for this reason. My case and point would be Alex Smith early in the season. He was among the highest in passer rating, with a rating of 104 before he left with concussion issue. No one would argue that Alex Smith, (Mr. Checkdown and don’t take any risk) is the model NFL QB. He’s been labeled a game manager for this reason. It’s been long argued that both RGIII and Wilson are asked to make safer and shorter throws and run if the pass is not available. You cannot knock them for being careful with the ball, but you can make a point that they are asked to do severely different things than Luck, leading to a higher passer rating.

 

Those are pretty good excuses but they are still excuses. He has a host of free agents around him now and a better line. I will be interested to see what excuses you make when his passer rating is still bad and he still gets rid of the ball much too slowly. We will see what the new season brings. My expectations are pretty low so any improvement will be a big deal with me.... :dancing:

[ConBro]

Hey!!! :dancing:    Thanks but I am not that new.....

You seem pretty new to me! :dancing:  :dancing:  :dancing:  There's some pretzels under the bridge.... might be a little stale though.

[NewEra]

btw, just wanted to say at Pacersdigest.com, Ol'blue admitted that no matter how good Luck became or what he did, he would never like him because he replaced Manning......

Dude is the biggest troll ever on pacersdigest. I'm sure the peytonites love him though

[Coltscodeblue]

Ignore him, nothing you say will change his hate for A.Luck, when you respond your just feeding his mental illness!!!!!

 

Go Colts!!!!!

 

He reminds me of RCase on another forum, he hates A.Luck because he went back to school and he got stuck with C.Newton and having to defend sCam terrible playing and attitude..... You will not see A.Luck doing a superman type celebration down 3 TD, A.Luck will run back to sideline and get ready for the next series after seeing the defense reacted to the previous series and talking with the OC.....

 

Will the Jags being so terrible take a chance and take Geno Smith with 2nd pick????? You get the QB and build around him!!!!!

[ColtsBlueFL]

In and new sig b4 the lock.

[NewEra]

The Luck army is coming for you Ol Blu.

;)

Luck army? Wouldn't it just be called Colts fans?!? Oh yeah that's right....

[Flash7]

Those are pretty good excuses but they are still excuses. He has a host of free agents around him now and a better line. I will be interested to see what excuses you make when his passer rating is still bad and he still gets rid of the ball much too slowly. We will see what the new season brings. My expectations are pretty low so any improvement will be a big deal with me.... :dancing:

Well, I would love to see what excuses you make when he increases his completion percentage, increases his "beloved end-all-be all" passer rating, and leads the Colts to yet another playoff appearance next season. Even if he does all of these things, you would still find fault with Luck.

[Kenny]

You bet they do. However, throwing 70 yards into the wind doesn't mean much to me. His long passes have a tendency to float at the end and wind up short. That had nothing to do with chemistry or protection. He has a slow release and he makes slow decisions that will always lead to him being sacked a lot.... :dancing:

 

His release isn't brees or manning quick, but it is far from slow. Show me a rookie that can go through 4 plus reads in the like 2.5 seconds he had to throw and I will show you God. No QB in the league could have survived the beating Luck took last year period.

[NewColtsFan]

It isn't that, it is the fact that Irsay lied and said things like, "If Peyton Manning plays football in 2012 it will be with the Colts" He made that statement around Christmas of 2011. Now, I didn't like that or the "Suck for Luck" folks in the stands but when it became inevitable that Peyton was going to be gone, I started checking on Andrew Luck and in doing that, I came across RGIII and I became of the opinion that RGIII was way ahead of Luck and always would be. Watching Luck underthrow receivers on a consistent basis and throw behind receivers on short routes, fail to get rid of the football quickly enough and have a large number of turnovers led me to dislike him as a QB and a leader of the Colts. We should have done better. Take that boatload of draft picks for the most overhyped player to ever come into the NFL and rebuild the entire team quickly. You could have drafted Tannehill and Wilson and you would have been set at QB for a long time and greatly improved as a team. I do not believe in signing free agents. It is a crap shoot with a less than 50% return but lots of money spent. Polian knew that and he took three different teams to the Super Bowl multiple times. I think 60% of the Colts free agents will fall right on their a$$es and the Colts will move backwards. Do you think Denver would trade Peyton Manning even up for Luck right now? I don't..... :dancing:

 

 

Do you think the Colts would trade Luck for Manning even-up right now?    I don't.

 

As for Luck....    do you know who the Broncos GM is??    His name is John Elway.    Do you know where he went to school?  He knows Andrew really,  really well.

 

So,  yes,  not only would Denver trade Manning for Luck right now,  they'd throw in draft picks to sweeten the deal.    And they'd make that deal so fast before anyone could think straight.     Yes,  they'd do that deal all day -- every day -- with a moments hesitation.

 

Sorry you're so down on the Colts.   As a long time Colts fan I want you to be happy.    But I'm afraid you're going to be pretty close to miserable in the future.    Luck is going to be very, very good for a long, long time.....

 

The rest of us are going to enjoy it.....

 

You??    It appears not so much........     wish I could help you...   but you're determined to be unhappy.    Good luck....

[Kenny]

I'm done feeding this argument as it's obvious he is oblivious to realizing his ignorance(For lack of a better word) to the full picture. Hope he has fun in my ignore list .

[OlBlu]

Well, I would love to see what excuses you make when he increases his completion percentage, increases his "beloved end-all-be all" passer rating, and leads the Colts to yet another playoff appearance next season. Even if he does all of these things, you would still find fault with Luck.

 

No, I wouldn't even care about making the playoffs. If he improved those things and showed that he could get rid of the ball quicker an cut down on the turnovers, I would say good things about him. But I don't think that will happen... He is what he is.... :dancing:

[OlBlu]

His release isn't brees or manning quick, but it is far from slow. Show me a rookie that can go through 4 plus reads in the like 2.5 seconds he had to throw and I will show you God. No QB in the league could have survived the beating Luck took last year period.

 

I will agree with that but no other QB would have been dumb enough to take it. :dancing:

[Flash7]

No, I wouldn't even care about making the playoffs. If he improved those things and showed that he could get rid of the ball quicker an cut down on the turnovers, I would say good things about him. But I don't think that will happen... He is what he is.... :dancing:

So by that logic, Manning is exaclty what he was as a rookie?  He never got better?

[NewEra]

I'm done feeding this argument as it's obvious he is oblivious to realizing his ignorance(For lack of a better word) to the full picture. Hope he has fun in my ignore list .

He's been on mine. Hey, it's free country and a fan forum. Spew whatever nonsense you want but doesn't mean I have to lose brain cells and time reading it.

If it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck and looks like a duck. Good chance it's a duck.

[Kenny]

He's been on mine. Hey, it's free country and a fan forum. Spew whatever nonsense you want but doesn't mean I have to lose brain cells and time reading it.

If it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck and looks like a duck. Good chance it's a duck.

 

Yeah I should have practiced what I preached to Qwiz yesterday a long time ago. Ah well whats done is done. 

[bluebambi]

It isn't that, it is the fact that Irsay lied and said things like, "If Peyton Manning plays football in 2012 it will be with the Colts" He made that statement around Christmas of 2011. Now, I didn't like that or the "Suck for Luck" folks in the stands but when it became inevitable that Peyton was going to be gone, I started checking on Andrew Luck and in doing that, I came across RGIII and I became of the opinion that RGIII was way ahead of Luck and always would be. Watching Luck underthrow receivers on a consistent basis and throw behind receivers on short routes, fail to get rid of the football quickly enough and have a large number of turnovers led me to dislike him as a QB and a leader of the Colts. We should have done better. Take that boatload of draft picks for the most overhyped player to ever come into the NFL and rebuild the entire team quickly. You could have drafted Tannehill and Wilson and you would have been set at QB for a long time and greatly improved as a team. I do not believe in signing free agents. It is a crap shoot with a less than 50% return but lots of money spent. Polian knew that and he took three different teams to the Super Bowl multiple times. I think 60% of the Colts free agents will fall right on their a$$es and the Colts will move backwards. Do you think Denver would trade Peyton Manning even up for Luck right now? I don't..... :dancing:

Mh luck has a healthy knee rgwho Dosent ... Luck wins

[Qwiz]

Mh luck has a healthy knee rgwho Dosent ... Luck wins

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/03/23/andrews-calls-rg3-superhuman-in-his-acl-recovery/

Take this as you will lol.

[jshipp23]

Just because a poster does not believe that Andrew Luck is a God does not mean that person is a troll. However, posters that call other posters names because they can't make an argument certainly are trolls...... :dancing:

Good point!!

[HtownColt]

Hold up Ima let you finish.... but the Colts will be 2013 AFC South Champions. *In my best Kanye West Impersonation*

[Jules]

funny thing is Manning had a 71.4 rookie qb rating, lol, but he just turned out to be another scrub, so who cares anyway right?

 

LOL

 

It's funny how often people forget about early Peyton here and his own rookie struggles. Oh wait, it isn't. Many just started to pay attention/jump on the wagon once the winning seasons started.......;)

[Jay Kirk]

I was thinking about the division we are in with the Jaguars, Titans, and Texans.

 

Texans are the only team capable enough to win the division right now, they have a good triplet in Schaub, Foster, and Johnson along with a menacing defense with Watt and the addition of Ed Reed.

 

Titans are the one that I could see as the possible sleeper in the division, it will all depend on Locker and how he develops. They still have Britt and CJ and they added some good pieces this offseason.

 

Jaguars are a lost cause for a couple of years still. They really only have MJD and he is wearing down quickly, maybe with the new regime they can make something happen, but I doubt it.

 

Prediction: Texans win the division 13-3, Colts win the 5 seed again 12-4, Titans get 3rd 7-9, Jaguars round out with 2-14.

 

Texans and Colts will battle it out the next couple years for the division title, going back and forth, what are your thoughts?

Gonna have to disagree on this the Colts take this division,they came within a wisker last year,Think they are far better as they set right now than they were last year,although I think the Texans are good ,IMO they havnt kept up with the Colts,my opinion can change but it will take a draft to do it

[The Peytonator]

Those are pretty good excuses but they are still excuses. He has a host of free agents around him now and a better line. I will be interested to see what excuses you make when his passer rating is still bad and he still gets rid of the ball much too slowly. We will see what the new season brings. My expectations are pretty low so any improvement will be a big deal with me.... :dancing:

 

 

We can dance if we want to.

We can leave your friends behind.

Cause your friends don't dance and if they don't dance,

well they're no friends of mine.

[krunk]

I am saying his QB rating says he is not the QB you all think he is. That and his awful completion percentage and high number of turnovers...... He regularly thows a ball that floats on long routes and comes up short. He also throws behind receivers on short routes at an alarming rate. I don't think Luck is a superstar now nor will he ever be one unless he can fix all of those things. And, please don't start with "but" and all of the excuses you Luck apologists always bring up in his defense. That is the stat he leads the league in, excuses...... :dancing:

What exactly are a rookie quarterbacks stats supposed to look like? You're just grasping at straws trying to come up with something to talk about. There's loads we can say and have said about Schaub and his rookie like composure. There is nothing Houston showed in our two meetings with them that said they were clearly head and shoulders above the Colts. The Texans know the writing is on the wall. Their players and their fans know the Colts are not a team to take lightly. Your 8-8 projection is certainly laughable! I always predict at least one win over Houston, and with how our team is being stocked this year I'm predicting we sweep the Texans. Colts will take the AFC South this year. Count on it!

[Tark The Shark]

Man, I leave this thread for 12 hours and come back to bitter arguments.

 

Maybe it is just my hippy personality kicking in but let's all take a deep breath and calm ourselves.  :hippie:

 

:dancing:

[colts1993]

Colts will be AFC South champions this upcoming season because Andrew Luck is the best. just sayin..

[SteelCityColt]

Hmm this is like a return to the Luck vs RG3 days with almost every topic being derailed into a debate about evaluating QB ability, about the same level of logic and reasoning being shown too!

 

Back onto topic, it's going to be a interesting year in the AFC South, I personally think it's the most open division. I'd say any 1 of the Titans,Texans or Colts could take it if things fall there way. From a Horseshoe perspective if Grigson can repeat his draft success from last year and there isn't a massive drop off from the likes of Luck/Hilton/Allen I'd say we can take the division. Texans are still going to be solid, if not spectacular and the Titans could be dark horses. 

 

As for no.12.... it seems a bit harsh to right him off after a rookie season behind 5 turnstiles, especially as at the end of the day this is a results business and it would be very myopic to not agree he contributed quite a lot to some of the wins last season, even if it was mostly in being able to keep it together in "clutch" situations. Winning is winning even if it ain't pretty! 

 

Put him in the scheme were he was very successful in college (WCO, and if you think we played WCO last year you really need to check your eyes!), better personnel and a stauncher O line and I think he will correct and answer the issues levied against him last year. If he doesn't... well then I might worry somewhat, but until that happens I'm more than happy with our current situation at QB. As much as I love Peyton, he is after all the reason I started to watch NFL and also why I became a Colts fan, I can see why the decision was made. It hurt, but it's happened and if you keep picking at the wound it will never heal. 

[Qwiz]

Man, I leave this thread for 12 hours and come back to bitter arguments.

 

Maybe it is just my hippy personality kicking in but let's all take a deep breath and calm ourselves.  :hippie:

 

:dancing:

It's a thread about possible multi-team competition in the AFC South and now somehow 12 got involved. What do you expect to happen?

[Tark The Shark]

It's a thread about possible multi-team competition in the AFC South and now somehow 12 got involved. What do you expect to happen?

 

Peace, love, and friendly discussion  :hippie:

[weslo1812]

I am not a Texans fan. I am a Colts fan and I have been for over 50 years. Now, I don't believe in the saying "My country right or wrong" and I certainly don't support everything the Colts to right or wrong. I use the stat that is the best barometer of a QBs worth. The Passer Rating if that is what you want to call it. I see Luck at 76.4 and RGIII at over 102..... That is a vast difference to me. I do admire the comeback wins but perhaps you should not have been behind in the first place. Luck doesn't pass my "eye" test with all of the underthrows and throwing behind receivers. That has nothing to do with anything but the QBs physical ability. I also see that he is slow in making decisions and slow on the release. That means he is always going to get sacked a lot even with a good offensive line. I see those things....... I think after Luck falls on his * this year, they will think about abandoning the experiment and try developing a real QB..... :dancing:

You are clueless!!! First do you even realize why RG3 rating was that high. He made a lot more easier passes. He had a lot of short passes in scheme and great run game to open up his passing game. You would be dumb if you said those things don't matter as to why his ratings were higher. His risk level on the throws he made overall to the ones Luck had to make was alot lower. Luck was throwing against defenses that would just sit back and play tight coverage because they knew our threat to run effectively was little to none. Plus you add in the fact he was throwing on the run or off balance 70% of the time and still trying to get the ball 20+ yds down field. And if you know about the QB the foundation is the most important part. If balance and footwork isn't right it can throw off everything including throws. Also yes Luck could have thrown the shorter check down pass at times but the thing there is that option was generally the last option in his reads.So by the time he was really ablr e to get to that point with how long it took for all the other routes to develop it was too late. So there are just a few points. RG3 had things essentially made easier for him. Luck really didn't. He had the whole thing thrown at him plus some. He was running the 2 minute offense and the hurry up with the best of them by the middle of the season. That's one of the hardest things for QBs to get down. Yes Luck made his fair share of mistakes that were completely on him. He will learn though, he's very hard on himself and takes what he does extremely serious. You need to look beyond just interceptions, comp % Tds . You have to take all things into account. Your only taking what you want just to be able to try and justify your point.

[mjsimans]

I make it clear that I am no Luck or Irsay fan. If you don't like what I have to say then use your ignore feature...... I don't try to derail anything. I just point out how wrong people are in what they think Luck is....... :dancing:

 

Yes...we have noticed....

In regards to the passer rating and completion percentage....only ONE excuse is necessary....O-line.....

One of the best rookie seasons ever by a QB behind a make shift o-line and your straight up saying he will never be a superstar...

 

you = hater = wrong

[mjsimans]

I will agree with that but no other QB would have been dumb enough to take it. :dancing:

 

He's a winner...plain and simple

[Balzer40]

delete.

[Tark The Shark]

delete.

 

I started this and am already agreeing with this sentiment.

[Balzer40]

I started this and am already agreeing with this sentiment.

 

 

 

I almost fell into the trap of responding to a OIBlu post and decided it was better to just forget about it and keep him on ignore. If everybody would do the same, he wouldn't have no reason to keep coming back and posting ridiculous nonsense that gets people riled up.

[Tark The Shark]

I almost fell into the trap of responding to a OIBlu post and decided it was better to just forget about it and keep him on ignore. If everybody would do the same, he wouldn't have no reason to keep coming back and posting ridiculous nonsense that gets people riled up.

 

I have responded to some of his stuff before and realized what he believes.

 

I figure that I don't have to listen but this not really where I wanted the thread to go. 

 

I just figured 20 posts and it would die off like the rest of my threads I create

[Balzer40]

I have responded to some of his stuff before and realized what he believes.

 

I figure that I don't have to listen but this not really where I wanted the thread to go. 

 

I just figured 20 posts and it would die off like the rest of my threads I create

 

 

 

Yeah, it's a shame their are a few here that feel the need to derail a good thread as soon as Luck gets brought up.

[Tark The Shark]

Yeah, it's a shame their are a few here that feel the need to derail a good thread as soon as Luck gets brought up.

 

Oh well, on the bright side, I personally am very excited about the next season.

 

Luck throwing to Wayne, and DHB stretching the field and Hilton in the slot doing a bunch of bubble screens. Fleener split out and Allen staying an blocking. 

 

I can't wait to see who we get in the draft.

[AntonMcG]

While I am not against you making your points felt OlBlu, I must say your tactics for doing so could certainly be deemed trollish. You seem to talk about nothing else in any thread accept for Luck's lack of ability, and other poster's bite, and suddenly we have 3 pages of the same back-and-forth. Sure, make your points, but no need for snide remarks directed at Luck in every thread, it ruins the forums.

 

Also, you say people only look at some of the stats, but surely you are doing the same by referencing passer rating and completion percentage. I liked Arians vertical offense last year, probably more than others, but it is certainly not stat-friendly for a QB, and we did not have the personnel to run it. It would have worked much more effectively with play-action and a dominant o-line that lets the play develop. The amount of shots Luck took with guys hanging of him was big. RGIII and Wilson were protected a lot more by their teams and their schemes. The offense was not ideal for Luck's skillset, no one can do everything. What the Redskins did so well was designed their scheme around RG3 to maximize his potential, hopefully this year we get that with Luck. You call them excuses, but they are reasons, not everything is as black-and-white as stats, that's why I hate them so much. People can watch football and see how good or bad someone is with their eyes, they don't need to check NFL.com Stat Center after the game to tell them who played well (or they shouldn't at least). There are so many inflated stats out there for bad players it's ridiculous. I could sit here and type 100 reasons for Luck's bad passer rating but we have all heard them before.

 

Luck is far from elite but he was a rookie last year which seems to be hard for people to fathom. And despite your assertions that he is what he is what he is, players improve, and he has all the potential in the world to be great, but he is not the finished product some claim him to be.

 

It irks me at times as well when people on here talk up Luck while belittling Manning. Those same people who now call Manning a choke artist are the same who were defending him to the hilt in the Manning  vs. Brady debates. I have no time for short memories and what Manning done for the Colts should never be forgotten. But at the same time, Luck is are QB, he is very young and has a lot of potential, let's give him a shot.

 

As Norman Cousins said "Optimism doesn't wait on facts. It deals with prospects. Pessimism is a waste of time."