Not a fan of the ground and pound in todays nfl....

[bluephantom87]

Would love to see the Colts be able to run the ball more effective and I think that will happen anyway with an improved o-line but I hope Pep will not sacrifice aggressive playcalling and limit the downfield attack to run a Stanford/ west-coast type of offense. Year one Jim Harbaugh made Alex Smith look great with that offense because he had LIMITED skills but Jim was also smart enough to realize that in today's nfl you must attack defenses and score tds instead of fgs thus the switch to Kaepernick. Now the rave is about their big play offense and ability to stretch the field. As a whole I think Chuck is a conservative coach (the Jacksonville and Minnesota games come to mind) that wants to rely on the run game and defense to win ball games. Bruce's style was more attacking downfield and I would've loved to have seen it with an o-line in place. Was listening to Heath Evans on Nfl Network and he was saying that Belichick (a defensive coach) preaches to Brady over and over to score as many points as possible no matter what until that clock reads zero because that's what the offense is paid to do. Hopefully Pep will learn on the fly and realize that this is a qb driven league.

[chad72]

If you have the TEs for the wham blocks to go with a talented OL, and use them all differently with several different play calls to manufacture runs, then it can be a successful thing. But it always comes back to your QB, what he can do on the ground or air that will ultimately determine the success of the team moving the chains.

[TKnight24]

Too lazy to Quote the original post. But Stanford was NOT Conservative when Luck was there. They ran the ball a lot, but on PA Luck was launching Passes downfield. Aside from Reggie, we have way too much Speed to NOT attack downfield

[ColtsBlueFL]

I'm for reading the D, creating unfavorable match ups against it, and exploiting it with precision execution. Whatever play call that might entail, from a dive up the middle to a deep shot for pay dirt on a fly route, and anything in between. 

 

I will not be in favor of settling in to a long series of 'safe' conservative calls that amounts to clock chewing at best and getting your defense back out there too fast at worst.

[unitaswestand]

I guess the question I would have is do you want to be a great regular season team or do you want to win Super Bowls.  Sure,  high scoring passing teams are the fad.  They basically are the Colts of 8-10 years ago. But how often do they win the Super Bowl?   The Super Bowl winning teams are still the teams that can run effectively when needed and stop the run.  So what I fear more is going back to a Tom Moore type offense that rolls during regular season and gets shut down in the playoffs.  Averaging 14 points a playoff game speaks for itself.

 

I am all for the WCO, power running, and taking shots downfield. Both GB and Philly run versions of WCO and they have the big strikes.

[WhistlingDixie]

Running the ball and stopping the run will win you most games. You have to have a great QB to balance it out to be truly unstoppable.

[ColtsBlueFL]

I guess the question I would have is do you want to be a great regular season team or do you want to win Super Bowls.  Sure,  high scoring passing teams are the fad.  They basically are the Colts of 8-10 years ago. But how often do they win the Super Bowl?   The Super Bowl winning teams are still the teams that can run effectively when needed and stop the run.  So what I fear more is going back to a Tom Moore type offense that rolls during regular season and gets shut down in the playoffs.  Averaging 14 points a playoff game speaks for itself.

 

I am all for the WCO, power running, and taking shots downfield. Both GB and Philly run versions of WCO and they have the big strikes.

 

Yup, except I like the Green Bay and Saints variations (McCarthy and Payton), not so much Andy Reid's version. To me, our running game must be effective now on nearly every play we run it, not a lot of 1 - 2 yard gains that are offset by one breakout run to up the ypc average.  We need to get a majority of first downs on 1st or 2nd down, and if presented a 3rd, it needs to be within 2 yards of a 1st in order to be relatively assured we march down the field in this type of system. Unless Pep installs some of BA's plays for 3rd and long.  Luck absolutely excelled at 3rd and long this year.  I don't want that proven ability and capability stifled by scheme if possible.

[BOTT]

People worry way too much. To think the colts would bring in someone who wants to make Luck a game manager for a run heavy offense is...well...absurd

[throwing BBZ]

Blood i think A LOT of these topics are written To BAIT knowledgeable fans, certainly NOT a part of intelligent discourse.

[pacolts56]

People worry way too much. To think the colts would bring in someone who wants to make Luck a game manager for a run heavy offense is...well...absurd

Amen.

 

Right now....I'm trying to figure out exactly HOW Andrew Luck broke all of John Elway's Stanford passing records with the "3yds and a cloud of dust offense" that some apparently believe Stanford ran.

[TKnight24]

Amen.

Right now....I'm trying to figure out exactly HOW Andrew Luck broke of John Elway's Stanford passing records with the "3yds and a cloud of dust offense" that some apparently believe Stanford ran.

Exactly cause you definitely break a HOFer Passing Record by calling Hike then handing the ball off to your RB -__-

[HarassedOffTheSite]

Not a fan of the ground and pound in todays nfl....

 

 

....ehh, you'll be alright. ;)

[ColtsBlueFL]

People worry way too much. To think the colts would bring in someone who wants to make Luck a game manager for a run heavy offense is...well...absurd

 

Compared to Air Coryell variants, by definition, that is exactly the philiosphy of the WCO, manage the game better.  Until we see exactly what variant of that strategy Pep installs with our personell, you cannot definitively make your statement.  But I would certainly like a more effective run game, and thus a little more run heavy in that case; if Pep can pull it off.  Somehow, I think you are right and our personnel will end up defining his scheme rather than his fitting ours though.

[Coltsman1788]

All these posters scared of the Colts developing a strong running game is comical to me.  I have yet to see a good quarterback who was harmed by his team actually being able to run the football effectively.  Peyton's career took off in his second year partly because he had a young running back named Edgerinn tearing it up in the backfield.  That transformed him into a play action killa.  Those were Peyton's best years in my opinion.  A solid running game compliments any good quarterback and opens things up even more for the deep hits down the field.  We've seen it before already guys...sheesh...it wasn't that long ago. So  I welcome it back with open arms.  We just have to make sure that we get the pieces necessary to pull it off successfully.  I trust Grigs and his staff to do that. 

[HarassedOffTheSite]

People worry way too much. To think the colts would bring in someone who wants to make Luck a game manager for a run heavy offense is...well...absurd

 

Kind of an extreme description but...per PFT...

 

Hamilton said he did plan to change the offense from what former coordinator and now-Cardinals head coach Bruce Arians installed, leaning toward more West Coast principles and away from the deep passing game Arians preferred. It’ll come with more of an emphasis on running the ball as well....“But I enjoy watching our guys just come off the ball, the guys up front, and trying to knock the opponent back. I’m a big believer of the power-running game and, . . . I think that ultimately opens up your passing game, the play-action passes.’’

[Smonroe]

People worry way too much. To think the colts would bring in someone who wants to make Luck a game manager for a run heavy offense is...well...absurd

Exactly. When you have a great QB your run game is automatically better. When you have a good run game and a great QB you can take whatever the D gives you. They put a safety in the box, you go up top. They don't, you run it down their throats until they do.

I know that's a very simplistic statement, but it's also very true.

[HarassedOffTheSite]

I'm for reading the D, creating unfavorable match ups against it, and exploiting it with precision execution.

 

Everyone is for that. But if you mean doing this at the line of scrimmage, that's what Manning did. It flourished in the regular season. But once we hit the playoffs and top shelf talent on the opposite side of the ball, it (or Manning) floundered (you decide).

 

Defenses have had 10 years now to learn how to disguise what they're doing at the line of scrimmage. IMO at some point it is gonna balance back out to just lining up and beating the guys in front of you, no matter what they want to do.

[NewEra]

With Luck, our Wr's and our te's if anyone thinks we will be a run first team is just silly. But yes, we will run the ball and hopefully we pound it down teams throats. That's how you set up the pass, control the clock and break the other teams will. I think we will just have more smart play calling and efficient offense. We won't be airing it out going 3 and out and I'm glad for that.

[ColtsBlueFL]

With Luck, our Wr's and our te's if anyone thinks we will be a run first team is just silly. But yes, we will run the ball and hopefully we pound it down teams throats. That's how you set up the pass, control the clock and break the other teams will. I think we will just have more smart play calling and efficient offense. We won't be airing it out going 3 and out and I'm glad for that.

 

I've been on many other teams forums where they are soooo tired of the Run, Run, Pass, Punt scheme.  ;)

[krunk]

Would love to see the Colts be able to run the ball more effective and I think that will happen anyway with an improved o-line but I hope Pep will not sacrifice aggressive playcalling and limit the downfield attack to run a Stanford/ west-coast type of offense. Year one Jim Harbaugh made Alex Smith look great with that offense because he had LIMITED skills but Jim was also smart enough to realize that in today's nfl you must attack defenses and score tds instead of fgs thus the switch to Kaepernick. Now the rave is about their big play offense and ability to stretch the field. As a whole I think Chuck is a conservative coach (the Jacksonville and Minnesota games come to mind) that wants to rely on the run game and defense to win ball games. Bruce's style was more attacking downfield and I would've loved to have seen it with an o-line in place. Was listening to Heath Evans on Nfl Network and he was saying that Belichick (a defensive coach) preaches to Brady over and over to score as many points as possible no matter what until that clock reads zero because that's what the offense is paid to do. Hopefully Pep will learn on the fly and realize that this is a qb driven league.

I'm going to take a wait and see approach. Stanford scored around 43 points a game when Luck was there. I don't think it's going to be a Rex Ryan conservative ground and pound like you may be thinking.

[Tark The Shark]

I don't like the ground and pound style in the NFL either.

 

But I believe Pep will have a good mix of everything. Luck's senior year was his best statistically speaking and they put up a lot of points.

 

I know that doesn't necessarily mean points in the NFL but Pep was probably the only guy who could put Luck into a system that he knows and excels in.

[chad72]

Luck's passing yardage may go down but his efficiency will go way up. We will trade yardage ranking (10th) for points per game ranking (18th) and it will be a step in the right direction. But first things first, Grigson, go find us the best complimentary pieces for the O-line and a good O-line coach.

[ColtsBlueFL]

Everyone is for that. But if you mean doing this at the line of scrimmage, that's what Manning did. It flourished in the regular season. But once we hit the playoffs and top shelf talent on the opposite side of the ball, it (or Manning) floundered (you decide).

 

Defenses have had 10 years now to learn how to disguise what they're doing at the line of scrimmage. IMO at some point it is gonna balance back out to just lining up and beating the guys in front of you, no matter what they want to do.

 

I think it was a combo of lack of running game in later years, and Manning making a crucial error late in games.  If Luck is going to run no huddle/check with me system, then he'll need a decent run game and not make that crucial error late in playoff situations.  It's too early to tell how well Luck will do at either at this time but I hope for the best. 

[NewColtsFan]

I don't think you have to worry about Indy becoming 'ground and pound'....   though I do think we'll run a little more.   A little, not a lot.    Stanford ran more than it passed for several reasons....   one, to have longer, time consuming drives that kept our defense off the field...   and two,  because with more teams running spread offenses, that's what college defenses are used to dealing with now...   but running it mostly between the tackles, suddenly,  Stanford's offense was the offense no one was used to dealing with.   We don't get the freakish athletes...   we win with size, strength, smarts...  they call it 'character and cruelty'....

 

Advantage Stanford.

 

Right now, perhaps the most dynamic offense in the NFL is San Francisco's.  Even without Kaepernick, it's a terrific offense.   Roman, their OC is scary, scary smart in a 'mad scientist' kinda way...   he's the genius.  And having Harbaugh oversee it only helps...

 

But, if the Colts can have even a somewhat more effective running game,  that will take pressure off our defense.   Anytime you can do that,  that's a plus.   If the Colts can replace a 5-play drive with a 10-play drive,  that's a plus.   I'm a big believer in time of possession...   own the ball, own the clock,  more times than not you will own the scoreboard as well.

[NewEra]

I don't think you have to worry about Indy becoming 'ground and pound'.... though I do think we'll run a little more. A little, not a lot. Stanford ran more than it passed for several reasons.... one, to have longer, time consuming drives that kept our defense off the field... and two, because with more teams running spread offenses, that's what college defenses are used to dealing with now... but running it mostly between the tackles, suddenly, Stanford's offense was the offense no one was used to dealing with. We don't get the freakish athletes... we win with size, strength, smarts... they call it 'character and cruelty'....

Advantage Stanford.

Right now, perhaps the most dynamic offense in the NFL is San Francisco's. Even without Kaepernick, it's a terrific offense. Roman, their OC is scary, scary smart in a 'mad scientist' kinda way... he's the genius. And having Harbaugh oversee it only helps...

But, if the Colts can have even a somewhat more effective running game, that will take pressure off our defense. Anytime you can do that, that's a plus. If the Colts can replace a 5-play drive with a 10-play drive, that's a plus. I'm a big believer in time of possession... own the ball, own the clock, more times than not you will own the scoreboard as well.

In complete agreement. So glad you joined the board. Enjoy reading your posts. Our thoughts are scary close on track. I'm just to lazy to post, heh.

[Smonroe]

I don't think you have to worry about Indy becoming 'ground and pound'....   though I do think we'll run a little more.   A little, not a lot.    Stanford ran more than it passed for several reasons....   one, to have longer, time consuming drives that kept our defense off the field...   and two,  because with more teams running spread offenses, that's what college defenses are used to dealing with now...   but running it mostly between the tackles, suddenly,  Stanford's offense was the offense no one was used to dealing with.   We don't get the freakish athletes...   we win with size, strength, smarts...  they call it 'character and cruelty'....

 

Advantage Stanford.

 

Right now, perhaps the most dynamic offense in the NFL is San Francisco's.  Even without Kaepernick, it's a terrific offense.   Roman, their OC is scary, scary smart in a 'mad scientist' kinda way...   he's the genius.  And having Harbaugh oversee it only helps...

 

But, if the Colts can have even a somewhat more effective running game,  that will take pressure off our defense.   Anytime you can do that,  that's a plus.   If the Colts can replace a 5-play drive with a 10-play drive,  that's a plus.   I'm a big believer in time of possession...   own the ball, own the clock,  more times than not you will own the scoreboard as well.

Yes, that's ideal.  In the last few Manning years, we were used to teams daring us to run.  Manning would switch to the run when he saw those D's.  But we didn't really have the running game to force the issue.  In retrospect, it's pretty amazing what he did with those poor O Lines.

 

We have the QB, we have decent enough RBs, our TEs are set, our WRs are set.  We all know what we need to run any offense, and now we have cap space to go after it. 

 

No matter what Hamilton tries to do, it's going to be fun to watch.

[bluephantom87]

Blood i think A LOT of these topics are written To BAIT knowledgeable fans, certainly NOT a part of intelligent discourse.

I'm not trying to bait anyone and my topic is not intelligent because you said so... please! I can give you my credentials as far as knowledge of the game but that's useless because anyone can say anything on these posts so it proves nothing. I thought this forum was for Colt fans to chat football. I for one KNOW that the running game is all important especially setting up the play-action pass, time of possession, controlling the clock, etc but my point was that I think Chuck might be a little conservative and be fine with a run, run, pass type of gameplan. Pep has never called plays in the nfl and many have said that the hc Shaw called the plays at Stanford. So if that was the case then whatever they did on offense the last couple of years was Shaw's doing. Not to say that Pep WON'T become a great oc because only time will tell. I always felt the Colts played close to the vest in the playoffs playing not to lose and taking what the defense gave instead of attacking their weaknesses was one of the main reasons for their playoff woes. The Pats run when they want to by spreading the defense out. At the end of the day the team with the most points wins.

[Balzer40]

People worry way too much. To think the colts would bring in someone who wants to make Luck a game manager for a run heavy offense is...well...absurd

 

I agree, I think a lot of fans need to really get more educated on the game.

[ColtsFTW]

They said we were gonna be balanced last offseason too. Look how that turned out.

[NewEra]

They said we were gonna be balanced last offseason too. Look how that turned out.

Well our coach was out most of the year. Leaving Mr I don't dink and dunk BA to run the offense. We saw all year long our qb running for his life waiting for age to develop.

[Superman]

I'm not trying to bait anyone and my topic is not intelligent because you said so... please! I can give you my credentials as far as knowledge of the game but that's useless because anyone can say anything on these posts so it proves nothing. I thought this forum was for Colt fans to chat football. I for one KNOW that the running game is all important especially setting up the play-action pass, time of possession, controlling the clock, etc but my point was that I think Chuck might be a little conservative and be fine with a run, run, pass type of gameplan. Pep has never called plays in the nfl and many have said that the hc Shaw called the plays at Stanford. So if that was the case then whatever they did on offense the last couple of years was Shaw's doing. Not to say that Pep WON'T become a great oc because only time will tell. I always felt the Colts played close to the vest in the playoffs playing not to lose and taking what the defense gave instead of attacking their weaknesses was one of the main reasons for their playoff woes. The Pats run when they want to by spreading the defense out. At the end of the day the team with the most points wins.

 

Just to the bolded, you'd be well served to research that claim a bit further. Whether that makes you feel better or not, I don't know, but rather than regurgitating that claim, it might help to get a better handle on what the play calling situation actually was at Stanford.

[bluephantom87]

Just to the bolded, you'd be well served to research that claim a bit further. Whether that makes you feel better or not, I don't know, but rather than regurgitating that claim, it might help to get a better handle on what the play calling situation actually was at Stanford.

I guess you know of him calling plays in the nfl and nobody else does. As far as Stanford it's been reported that hc Shaw called the plays and that's why I stated IF that's the case before I proceeded. I will try to get with the Stanford staff Superman to find out for sure so you can feel better.   

[Superman]

I guess you know of him calling plays in the nfl and nobody else does. As far as Stanford it's been reported that hc Shaw called the plays and that's why I stated IF that's the case before I proceeded. I will try to get with the Stanford staff Superman to find out for sure so you can feel better.   

 

No, he hasn't called plays in the NFL. I was talking about him calling plays at Stanford. If you can get some first hand info from the Stanford staff, be sure to share.

 

You might not have heard, but I'm not over the moon about Pep Hamilton. I have a ton of questions about this hire. I've just heard and read enough to convince me that his role at Stanford did include calling plays.

[NewColtsFan]

I guess you know of him calling plays in the nfl and nobody else does. As far as Stanford it's been reported that hc Shaw called the plays and that's why I stated IF that's the case before I proceeded. I will try to get with the Stanford staff Superman to find out for sure so you can feel better.   

 

 

BluePhantom....

 

You don't know me and I don't know you...   you appear to be new....    so my words likely will mean nothing to you....   but I'll offer them anyway on the off-chance that I'm wrong....

 

You might want to consider dialing down the stinging attacks....   Notice under Superman's name it says "Forum Moderator"...

In addition, it's my opinion that Superman knows more about (A) football and (B) Colts football than most of the other fans here combined....    there are only a small handful of other posts I'd put in his league.

 

You're free to disagree.    But even if he isn't all the things I think he is,  you still might want to consider using less testosterone in your posts....    

 

Or not....    your choice....

[NewColtsFan]

In complete agreement. So glad you joined the board. Enjoy reading your posts. Our thoughts are scary close on track. I'm just to lazy to post, heh.

 

 

Thanks NewEra for the unexpected very kind words.   Much appreciated. 

 

But, I'm here to tell you,  there are some here who do not share your view.....    they'll read your compliment to me and spit out whatever beverage they happen to be drinking....    

 

Then,  if they read more,   they may try to gouge their own eyes out!     

 

Either way,  I really do appreciate the sentiment....     

[NewEra]

Thanks NewEra for the unexpected very kind words. Much appreciated.

But, I'm here to tell you, there are some here who do not share your view..... they'll read your compliment to me and spit out whatever beverage they happen to be drinking....

Then, if they read more, they may try to gouge their own eyes out!

Either way, I really do appreciate the sentiment....

Oh trust me I know it. I may get myself banned here soon cause I really can't stand all the double talk, high horse, standing on their soap box crap.

[NewColtsFan]

Oh trust me I know it. I may get myself banned here soon cause I really can't stand all the double talk, high horse, standing on their soap box crap.

 

 

Don't get yourself banned....    when in doubt,  take the high road....

 

Or, put in football terms....    punt and play defense.    Get a fresh set of downs to start over....

[NewEra]

Don't get yourself banned.... when in doubt, take the high road....

Or, put in football terms.... punt and play defense. Get a fresh set of downs to start over....

Lol, so true but so hard at times.

[bluephantom87]

Just to the bolded, you'd be well served to research that claim a bit further. Whether that makes you feel better or not, I don't know, but rather than regurgitating that claim, it might help to get a better handle on what the play calling situation actually was at Stanford.

NewColtsFan this was from Superman addressing me...

 

I guess you know of him calling plays in the nfl and nobody else does. As far as Stanford it's been reported that hc Shaw called the plays and that's why I stated IF that's the case before I proceeded. I will try to get with the Stanford staff Superman to find out for sure so you can feel better.   

and my response to Superman

 

BluePhantom....

 

You don't know me and I don't know you...   you appear to be new....    so my words likely will mean nothing to you....   but I'll offer them anyway on the off-chance that I'm wrong....

 

You might want to consider dialing down the stinging attacks....   Notice under Superman's name it says "Forum Moderator"...

In addition, it's my opinion that Superman knows more about (A) football and (B) Colts football than most of the other fans here combined....    there are only a small handful of other posts I'd put in his league.

 

You're free to disagree.    But even if he isn't all the things I think he is,  you still might want to consider using less testosterone in your posts....    

 

Or not....    your choice....

Now onto you NewColtsFan. I respect everyone's opinion on this board whether I agree or not. My reply to Superman was not a "stinging attack" as you put it. The response was because I thought Superman took a jab in his prior post. Forum Moderator or not I have a right to respond especially since it was addressed to me. I'm not new to the forum at all. I've been reading posts on this message board for YEARS but just started posting last year because I have a little more time on my hands with a new work schedule. So I am very aware of Superman and his football knowledge in which I agree with more times than not. I bleed blue and any Colt fan is like family to me including you but like all families everything is not always peachy.

[Superman]

NewColtsFan this was from Superman addressing me...

 

and my response to Superman

 

Now onto you NewColtsFan. I respect everyone's opinion on this board whether I agree or not. My reply to Superman was not a "stinging attack" as you put it. The response was because I thought Superman took a jab in his prior post. Forum Moderator or not I have a right to respond especially since it was addressed to me. I'm not new to the forum at all. I've been reading posts on this message board for YEARS but just started posting last year because I have a little more time on my hands with a new work schedule. So I am very aware of Superman and his football knowledge in which I agree with more times than not. I bleed blue and any Colt fan is like family to me including you but like all families everything is not always peachy.

 

I wasn't trying to take a shot. I was just saying that my opinion and what you might discover in looking at Hamilton's credentials might or might not make you feel better about him. Wasn't trying to be snarky. It's just that people sometimes repeat the same old things over and over again without researching them (did you know Jerry Hughes played linebacker at TCU???), and oftentimes they're entirely not true (Jerry Hughes did NOT play linebacker at TCU, he played end, but was projected as a linebacker in the NFL). Sorry to come across any other kind of way. Tone is hard to determine over the Internet.

 

You absolutely have the right to respond to anything a moderator posts, and I'm glad when people do. I'm a poster first. It's why I'm here, not to moderate. And in case anyone couldn't tell, I love a good debate.